Whatever happened to large families?

[This Vale Of Tears]

Psalm 127:4,5​

As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.​

Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:​

It's a question that bothers me greatly. When older people give an autobiographical anecdote, they often tell of coming from a family of 8 kids all raised in the same home. Often this comes from the mouths of very successful and accomplished individuals which dispels the myth about children's opportunities being jeopardized by competition with multiple other siblings.

The Duggar Family


But now it seems we want to have neatly manicured families with 2 but no more than 3 children. We are told to plan our families with a careful regard to time and resources. We buy into the concept that each child should have his or her own room so that the size of our family is limited to how expensive a house we can afford. It's even more disturbing to see this trend among Christians and Jews who have historically been known for raising huge families which is the most proven effective way to sustain the faith from one generation to the next. Now it seems we've stigmatized large families.

I'm sure there are a lot of theories out there as to why. But I blame Christians who have fallen away from opposition to birth control. It used to be that both Catholics and Protestants were united in the understanding that birth control is the wrongful frustration of the life creating purpose of sex in a marital context and that many social evils spawn from it. We act as if "oopsies" are to be avoided at all costs, but how many of us were "oopsies"? And how hypocritical is that to believe that no children are an accident but then act in such way as to prevent any accidental children? And how hypocritical is it for accidental children to do everything in their power to make sure they don't have accidental children of their own?

Or let's put this another way? Have we caused our "family planning" to supplant God's plan for our families?

Oh, and I'm about to be the father of a 4th child in January and this child was an "oopsie". As devout Catholics we don't use contraceptives ever. But this wonderful human being soon to be born may never have been possible if we did the planning instead of God.

 

[Dodo_David]

Vale, it looks to me like you are begging the question by assuming that birth control is sinful without using any Bible verse to support that idea.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Vale, it looks to me like you are begging the question by assuming that birth control is sinful without using any Bible verse to support that idea.

Up until the 1930 Anglican Lambeth Conference Protestants used to be firm in understanding contraceptives were wrong. After the Anglicans caved on the issue, so did other mainline denominations one after another. In a feckless attempt to defend opposition to contraceptives, some Catholics cite the Sin of Onan in Genesis 38. But even a cursory examination of this example shows how poorly this story translates into a taboo on birth control pills and condoms. The truth is, the Bible supports neither the contention that birth control is wrong nor the argument that it's ok to use artificial drugs and devices to circumvent the procreative purpose of marital sex. Put more simply, citing the Bible results in a stalemate for both sides. I'd rather point out that Christians are to have their senses exercised to discern good and evil (Hebrews 5:14) which is especially instructive in that the Bible is not an exhaustive rule of faith nor does it anticipate every act of evil spawned by man's natural creativity pursuant to depraved ends.

And making the case that contraceptives are evil rather than good is quite easy and goes beyond just demonstrating its role in reducing the size of the average family, particularly Christian families. Contraceptives facilitate adultery, fornication, single incident hookups by removing the consequences of sex, namely the creation of a child. Contraceptives pervert sex by asserting the pursuit of pleasure and hedonism as a chief purpose rather than the creation of children and family. Childbirth creates the proper context for sex and points to the divine origin of sex. Contraceptives corrupt sex until it's nothing more than a selfish pursuit, an exercise in self indulgence. Homosexuality and same sex unions are a corollary of the thinking that sex isn't necessarily for creating children and more pointedly may exclude all consideration of children because it's all about pleasure.

This is why Protestant Christians for centuries didn't need a neon sign in the Bible to know that the contraceptives were wrong. It wasn't until the "sexual revolution" that resolve to remain untainted by the sin of contraceptive use grew slack.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I would also add that if I were Satan *snicker* I would want Christians to be using contraceptives. Heathens have always found ways to limit their offspring, going all the way back to the ancient Canaanites who sacrificed their children in the fires of Molech. But Christians (and Jews by the way) have always been known for keeping the faith and influence in society strong through large, bountiful families which creates a strong fabric of morality and stability in society. I would want to undermine this utilizing a tool that appears harmless such as condoms or birth control pills.

 

[Selene]

Vale, it looks to me like you are begging the question by assuming that birth control is sinful without using any Bible verse to support that idea.

He used Psalm 127:4-5 showing that families with many children are a blessing. Since the beginning, the first thing that God commanded Adam and Eve was to be fruitful and multiply. God wants married couples to be open to life. How many children a married couple has depends on God because children are gifts from God.

 

[Dodo_David]

He used Psalm 127:4-5 showing that families with many children are a blessing. Since the beginning, the first thing that God commanded Adam and Eve was to be fruitful and multiply. God wants married couples to be open to life. How many children a married couple has depends on God because children are gifts from God.

"Rain is also a gift from God, but when we get too much of it, we wear rubbers." - a line from a joke

There are currently more than 6 billion people in the world. How many people were in the world when God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply?

 

[Selene]

"Rain is also a gift from God, but when we get too much of it, we wear rubbers." - a line from a joke

There are currently more than 6 billion people in the world. How many people were in the world when God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply?

Overpopulation is only man's excuse of going against God's command to be fruitful and multiply. We have mission families with 12-16 children, and these mission families are showing the world that we can indeed trust God in providing for them regardless of how many children He gives them. God wants married couples to be open to life and to trust in Him.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

"Rain is also a gift from God, but when we get too much of it, we wear rubbers." - a line from a joke

There are currently more than 6 billion people in the world. How many people were in the world when God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply?

The Population Bomb scare of the 1970's proved to be a myth. Not only has growing population not brought us to the brink of starvation, but quite the opposite, technology has enabled us to feed ourselves and have plenty to distribute worldwide than ever in human history. Having more contributors has greatly improved the lives of people all over the world as they participate in the world market. The shortfalls food supply in the 1970's Soviet Union and in the 80's in North Korea and Ethiopia fueled the panic that we were on the verge of a global famine. But the causes of those shortages were civil wars in Africa and the inflexibility of communism's command economy to balance supply and demand. None of it had anything to do with population.

Furthermore I'm rather insulted that you think God is an idiot, that he gave us a commandment with no clue how it would unfold in future millennia. The evidence shows that growing population is a blessing to all mankind and ameliorates our existence, which is precisely what God had in mind. I'll play this out a little. At the founding of our country, our total population was just under 4 million. With so few contributors, life was difficult. Most people were farmers working sunrise to sunset 6 days a week just to be able to feed their families and have something to bring to market. Fewer contributors means fewer inventions, so the streamlining of industry with developments such as the Assembly Line and the Bessemer Process would not improve working conditions for several decades. The 8 hour work day was unheard of, and a society that worked hard all day and was always on the brink of starvation had little time for sports, the arts, or other diversions. People today dream of being a baseball player, a rock artist, or even to compete in the Olympics. We are afforded that luxury because we aren't bound by the toils of mere existence, we can do much more than just survive. A growing population has greatly increased our prosperity and fortunes.

And this is precisely what God had in mind.

 

[horsecamp]

smaller families very often show the sin of not trusting God enough to raise ten or twelve children ..
they think they must feed and cloth them forgetting That it really is God that Feeds and cloths and watches over children.

some times though God only blesses some couples with a smaller number of children.or some times it would not be healthy for a wife to have any more than one or two..

yet..

Children are a blessing from God .. people have several reasons for not wanting this blessing from selfishness to lack of trust.

the first thing many young married couples think about now days is how are they going to be able to take care of a child .

Now one can .. ..it takes God and even if a couple could have thousands of children taking care of them is no problem for God.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

When women were allowed to vote and leave the kitchens to pursue careers is when all the trouble started

The Liberal left are the political force who promote no children , women's rights , and woman's equality

Why should women be stuck at home raising kids they said

These are all "feel good" political catch phrases and because most women do everything by emotion they vote Liberal.

Pretty soon they are voting for government day care because there is no longer a mommy to raise the kids

Pretty soon all mommy's paycheck goes to pay for day care and all the clothes and cars she needs to get to work every day

Nobody at home to cook so we stop at the burger and pizza joint for our food

Which cost too much so we work more and more in order to pay for it all

In case anybody thinks I am anti-women .... I am not ..... I am purely talking about how the large family unit with a provider father and a full time mom have disappeared from our culture.

Its not that men are perfect either .... but we make decisions based more on merit and women go by personal emotions and "feelings"

The bible even mentions it

A good example in modern day is the election of Obama .... all he had was good looks and brown skin and a lot of people drooled all over him and voted accordingly because it "felt good"

Can anyone else name any presidential leadership qualities he has ??

See what I mean !!!

Best wishes.

 

[IBeMe]

It is a commandment given by God, to mankind.

Way back, it was an immediate necessity of survival.
It still is, but will take a while to manifest.

Guess how all these retirement plans are going to work out when you have little population growth?

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

When women were allowed to vote and leave the kitchens to pursue careers is when all the trouble started

The Liberal left are the political force who promote no children , women's rights , and woman's equality

Why should women be stuck at home raising kids they said

These are all "feel good" political catch phrases and because most women do everything by emotion they vote Liberal.

Pretty soon they are voting for government day care because there is no longer a mommy to raise the kids

Pretty soon all mommy's paycheck goes to pay for day care and all the clothes and cars she needs to get to work every day

Nobody at home to cook so we stop at the burger and pizza joint for our food

Which cost too much so we work more and more in order to pay for it all

In case anybody thinks I am anti-women .... I am not ..... I am purely talking about how the large family unit with a provider father and a full time mom have disappeared from our culture.

Its not that men are perfect either .... but we make decisions based more on merit and women go by personal emotions and "feelings"

The bible even mentions it

A good example in modern day is the election of Obama .... all he had was good looks and brown skin and a lot of people drooled all over him and voted accordingly because it "felt good"

Can anyone else name any presidential leadership qualities he has ??

See what I mean !!!

Best wishes.

You've nailed a lot of ancillary factors that contribute to reduced family size. It all comes down to a lack of faith among the "faithful". You saw Dodo David's response taking the viewpoint of a lawyer (or child, pick one) demanding that I show him in the Bible where birth control is disallowed. Wanting to know what one can get away with is not the actions of a person who loves God; not that Dodo David doesn't love God, but he's missing the point here. Loving God means coming to understand what He values and sharing those values; making them our own. The Bible verse I used to head the OP was used intentionally to highlight what God desires of us, to turn the "family planning" over to Him and trust him to provide for however many children he blesses us with.

From a demographics viewpoint, righteousness prevails through procreation, bringing many children into the world and raising them to fear the Lord. The heathens have always found ways to limit their offspring as seen by the ancient Canaanites who sacrificed their children to Molech. And it continues today using modern tools such as chemicals and contraceptive devices. One of the brilliant moves by Satan is to convince Christians who should know better that contraceptives are harmless and even a clever way to plan out how many children we will have. It's taught in schools to children as the "smart" thing to do in lieu of teaching children abstinence until marriage and trusting God to bless them with children according to HIS divine plan.

"Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him! How I proved Him o'er and o'er. Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus, oh for grace to trust him more!"

 

[rockytopva]

I do not feel that mother earth can handle too many more large families. I go to cruises on the Caribbean and over populated islands are not a pretty sight!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

We dont even need to have religious reasons to see what happens when we no longer have large families

North America is suffering from a population (growth) shortage and we have to bring in immigrants to do some jobs

And we are just getting started with problems .... soon most of our population will be "old" with only a few youth to carry the torch.

My parents had 5 children but my (late) wife and I only had one child .... and we did it for selfish reasons such as careers so I am just as guilty. Now my neighborhood is full of Muslim immigrants brought in to our workforce. I feel it would be better if the neighborhood was full of my christian relatives instead.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

We dont even need to have religious reasons to see what happens when we no longer have large families

North America is suffering from a population (growth) shortage and we have to bring in immigrants to do some jobs

And we are just getting started with problems .... soon most of our population will be "old" with only a few youth to carry the torch.

My parents had 5 children but my (late) wife and I only had one child .... and we did it for selfish reasons such as careers so I am just as guilty. Now my neighborhood is full of Muslim immigrants brought in to our workforce. I feel it would be better if the neighborhood was full of my christian relatives instead.

My wife and I struggled with a lack of trust as well. We have a 10 year old son, a 5 year old son, an 18 month old daughter and another boy due in January. The span between children reveals our struggle. We were "planning" our family. But after our second son, we changed our attitude and now we're going for it! We got rid of the contraceptives and started following the teachings of our Catholic faith and we prayed. We had a couple of miscarriages between 2 and 3 which were devastating but we kept trying and praying. Now my wife and I are talking about having yet another baby after this one hoping we can slip one more in under the wire before menopause. (she's 39) I only say all this because I don't want to be a hypocrite as if we had the correct view all along. My wife had to give up her career in exchange for the best career of all, raising kids. And I had to make some lifestyle changes as well and sell some of my man toys, etc.

It's interesting that you mention the Muslim immigrants because it illustrates that when we fail to "possess the land" then Satan takes the land by default. And if you think I'm equating Islam to Satan, you're absolutely right.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Vale, it looks to me like you are begging the question by assuming that birth control is sinful without using any Bible verse to support that idea.

Birth control is sinful.... but there is one that is accepted (NO SEX) if you don't plan to have a child. God did not tell us to tamper with His creation, nor to fix or spay His animals.

The reason families are small is because we no longer think of children as a blessing from God that we nurture into helping their family, becoming a wonderful, caring, human being with PURPOSE who has been raised up with godly values and character to carry on the GOOD family name, to help make the family business an honest one with integrity and pride of quality.

We have ruined our children, spoiled them rotten to their hurt. They are acursed by our own doing because man's way of love is to give them anything and everything they want, even when it is going to destroy them eventually and US in the process when they now are suffering from their LACK of parenting and godly LOVE that says NO to things God says is harmful, and Yes to good things that birth good character and decisions in life. After we have ruined them and don't want them under our feet... we push their disobedient, lawless, tempter tamtrum, rebellious, greedy, self centered souls out of our hair for the world to deal with them daily so that we do not have to suffer OUR consequences for our lack of true parental guidiance because in reality... WE DID NOT LOVE THEM and could care less if it was for the good.. we spoiled them so they would LIKE US to their destruction which turns to HATRED FOR US when they realize what poor and selfish parents we REALLY WERE!
It is written:
Prov 23:13-14
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
KJV
Jesus is called The Rod for he is the Word/law of God and if you truly love your child and want to spawn children that are a blessing and joy to you, themselves, and those whom they will come in contact in their lifetime and most importantly God. Then be sure to train them up in God's Word, the spiritual Rod, so they will not have to suffer the feel of the physical rod on their backside their whole life, captive to sin living a life of HELL
Sex is now just a perverted recreation... Don't we realize the devils temptations that we are being tested in NOW?
Sex for recreation only in mind and not a family is a SIN, for when the act produces an unwanted child, it brings about one of 3 things that are sinful.
1.Murder(abortion)
2.Selling your child(adoption)
3.Becoming a child abuser out of resentment of the child ruining your free lifestyle.

Rarely is the child accepted and loved, yet it is possible when the family is a moral loving family but just wasn't ready for another child yet.

 

[Dan57]

Responsible parents have children that they can afford to take of. They get married and find jobs first, then decide to have a family. The problem is, they are being taxed to death to pay for all the irresponsible parents who are unemployed and having children out of wedlock. Single parent birthrates are soaring.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Responsible parents have children that they can afford to take of. They get married and find jobs first, then decide to have a family. The problem is, they are being taxed to death to pay for all the irresponsible parents who are unemployed and having children out of wedlock. Single parent birthrates are soaring.

All due to SIN in the world no morals, lawless behavior, fornication, adultery, no respect for human life... but LOVE THE ANIMALS

We are all guilty of allowing things to get to this degree of immorality in this world, which is totally from an ANTI-CHRIST(WORD) spirit. Christ must be exalted over the earth, not lay the Rod down so that the serpent comes in to destroy!

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Responsible parents have children that they can afford to take of. They get married and find jobs first, then decide to have a family. The problem is, they are being taxed to death to pay for all the irresponsible parents who are unemployed and having children out of wedlock. Single parent birthrates are soaring.

Actually parents raising children often don't pay taxes at all because of the child tax credits and the more children, the more credits. But what I really contend with is this idea of "affordable" which is vague and very much subject to interpretation. Quite often what's "affordable" is what doesn't cramp a desired lifestyle. Large families make do with less and still manage to feed and clothe their entire brood. It's about trusting God to provide for the children he blesses us with and God has a perfect record in doing so. And I think you know that my rant isn't for single unwedded moms popping them out like Pez candy, I'm talking about intact families that are pruning and sculpting and manicuring what God intended to be messy, plentiful, and busting the seams. Families that "plan" how many children to have don't have God at the center of their family. They don't trust Him and don't want to be surprised. That's a big problem for "people of faith".

 

[Dan57]

Actually parents raising children often don't pay taxes at all because of the child tax credits and the more children, the more credits. But what I really contend with is this idea of "affordable" which is vague and very much subject to interpretation. Quite often what's "affordable" is what doesn't cramp a desired lifestyle. Large families make do with less and still manage to feed and clothe their entire brood. It's about trusting God to provide for the children he blesses us with and God has a perfect record in doing so. And I think you know that my rant isn't for single unwedded moms popping them out like Pez candy, I'm talking about intact families that are pruning and sculpting and manicuring what God intended to be messy, plentiful, and busting the seams. Families that "plan" how many children to have don't have God at the center of their family. They don't trust Him and don't want to be surprised. That's a big problem for "people of faith".

Yes, I can certainly agree with that...... Obama's affordable healthcare act originally forced Catholics to pay for contraceptives and abortions, totally violating religious freedom. But still, the individual freedom to erase mistakes has certainly reduced the birthrates. Its a modern convenience or social mandate that reduces reproduction. But I essentially agree with your analysis; If a person waits to have children until they can afford it, they'll never have children :)