Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
who was declared by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
and your point?
What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor
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who was declared by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
and your point?
Are you talking about religions or Christian denominations?? Do you believe that belief in Jesus Christ is required for the only true salvation and way to heaven. Or do you believe that all religious roads lead to heaven?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That is a big bite! Do you believe that belief in Jesus Christ is required for the only true salvation and way to heaven? I vote for that one! I believe that most Christian denominations provide a path to salvation. lol Even Calvinism! But if that religion does not believe that Christ is a God, the Messiah, and the only name that can be called up for salvation, then I have a problem with it.
All truly Christian denominations base the path to salvation on the Bible alone, and there are no required works, only belief in the finished work of Jesus Christ. Some denominations throw in water baptism, but I don't believe this is ESSENTIAL for salvation.
Edit: Some will say that faith without works is dead (which is true), but works are a result of faith, not vice versa. IOW, works (what we do) are a result of what we believe.
The teaching of Ephesians 2 and of James complement each other.
Amen!
Ephesians 2:8-10-- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Well, exactly; and verse 10 is sometimes omitted in quotation...
True, it's important to note that we were created in Christ Jesus for good works, which were "prepared by God
ahead of time" (HCSB). IOW, we cannot take credit for our good works since God prepared them for us to do--completely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Your belief is a little different than mine, and it has a lot to do with the properties of sin after Christ's death on the cross. But that is ok. I do fellowship with churches that think that Baptism has no spiritual effect. Just a public declaration that you are Christian. I do believe that Baptism is very important, has a spiritual effect, but separate from the moment you are saved from hell. As far as salvation and sanctification there is a lot that happens from the instant in time you are saved from hell. In my belief, saved from hell does not mean ticket to the highest heaven.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ya, that would take a book and I am not expecting you to become a disciple of Grailhunter.
Do you think that Jesus is seated in a lower heaven?? He's seated at the right hand of God the Father--in the throne room of God.
And believers "sit together" IN Him in the "heavenly places."
Ephesians 2:4-7--But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:34--Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
lol Taking shots in the dark? Do you believe that you will be seated be next to Christ?
Uh, no, that's not what His word says.
Believers are IN Jesus Christ. We have been baptized into Him. We are seated IN Him at the right hand of the Father--where He is.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I believe Christ is where He wants to be, but his throne is in the Heavenly Court of God. The throne to the right of God the Father. I do not believe we are absorbed in Christ. (Definitions of Heavenly thrones a side.)
I don't believe that we are "absorbed" into Jesus Christ either!! We are IN Him.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
"IN" ? Cutting to the chase, I believe that there are levels in Heaven and Hell and Sheol is still an option. Don't bring up the word Purgatory because that is not what I am talking about.
I think that you are correct that there are different levels of heaven. But I'm refuting your idea that not all believers
go to the highest heaven.
The scriptures I quoted say differently--that believers ARE seated IN Jesus Christ at the highest level already.
So, there's no getting there. We ARE there IN Jesus Christ. Like I said, we have been baptized into Christ.
Edit:Galatians 2:26-27--For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There you go. Our religions are different. If Adolph Hitler found Christ in his bunker at that last minute, you would be standing shoulder to shoulder with Him in the Highest Heaven.
