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ChristinaL

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If you study the story of Job, you'll find that Job caused it to happen.

He said this...>>"What i FEARED, has come upon me"..

See that?

"what i FEARED".....

So, that allowed this....

"The devil walks about as a roaring Lion, seeking Whom, He may Devour"..

Who is that?

= The Fearful, as Fear is the opposite of Faith....yet, fear is actually FAITH in the FEAR..

So, if you have FAITH in the FEAR.........in other words.....If you BELIEVE something bad is going to happen to you, then that is your FAITH, and Jesus said........that your faith will produce the situation, as it by your FAITH that you get what you are believing for.....

So, Job's FEAR, was His Faith... and that Faith in what He feared, brought it to him.
Job didnt cause it to happen. Lucifer appeared before God and said to Him that Job only loves God because he is wealthy. Satan asked God fpr permission to take away Job's family, then property and finally his health because Satan believed he could make Job curse God. God allowed it because He knew Job would stand fast.

"What I feared has come upon me...." Job was only human and we all have those fears occasionally. This whole Believe and it will happen nonsense is no different than this occult manifestation bs that Oprah and Joel Osteen preaches that you speak what you want into existence.
 

amigo de christo

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Bad choice of words. More like, if Satan attacks you God will allow it to keep you from being exalted above measure 2 Cor 12:7
due to all those lovely revelations paul had recieved , this was allowed , a messenger of satan allowed to buffet him .
Paul explains very well how he at first did try and get it removed
but that AFTER GOD spoke to him and told him . PAUL learned to REJOICE in HIS infirmities .
Lest i should be exalted above measure . Spot on right sister . spot on right . GOD knows how to take care of us .
 
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ChristinaL

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its more so because it represents a religoin of sorts . Even JESUS said ye are of your father the devil . he did use the masculine .
Though i am not sure either satan or the angels are male or female seeing they are spirit .
Satan is often used in the masculine , ITS HIS WHORE RELIGOIN that is used in the feminie
JUST as the church itself , BEING the bride of Christ is known in female gender .
IT can be tricky dear sister .
Oh no God's and the devil's angels are male and female, just not man and woman as we understand it. I mean they dont have the, umm, requisite outside and inside parts that identify them as male and female as we would understand man and woman
 

amigo de christo

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Job didnt cause it to happen. Lucifer appeared before God and said to Him that Job only loves God because he is wealthy. Satan asked God fpr permission to take away Job's family, then property and finally his health because Satan believed he could make Job curse God. God allowed it because He knew Job would stand fast.

"What I feared has come upon me...." Job was only human and we all have those fears occasionally. This whole Believe and it will happen nonsense is no different than this occult manifestation bs that Oprah and Joel Osteen preaches that you speak what you want into existence.
Good to see you dont heed mr joel either . There are many wolves within christendom .
And they always sure can appear very kind and smiling , but man do they deceive .
 
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MA2444

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WHERE does the Lord say He sends the devil to correct His people?

God's Word does not teach that satan works for the Lord... satan is self employed and seeks to kill, steal, and destroy

Nobody said that. You seem to be confusing two different things.

As believers experience the attacks of Satan, they can trust the truth of Romans 8: , "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God..." Therefore, the assumption is that we will experience "good" things and "bad" things, but "all" of these things can be made to contribute toward "good" ends as God works them out. So even the attacks of Satan, although evil, can and will have a "good" result, ultimately, as God uses them to conform us to Christ, His Son (see Roman 8:29). Attacks from Satan, along with all other tribulations, can cause believers to love God more, resist Satan more, practice patience, and grow stronger in our faith in many other ways. Praise God for His sovereign protection. Thank Him for His plan to make everything—even Satan’s attacks—"work together for good" for you!
 
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MA2444

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Oh no God's and the devil's angels are male and female, just not man and woman as we understand it. I mean they dont have the, umm, requisite outside and inside parts that identify them as male and female as we would understand man and woman

That's not what scripture says! It says they dont get married in Heaven is all. It doesnt say that that are genderless.
 

amigo de christo

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Notice that Job BELIEVED his Fear... ?

That prayer was answered.
We despaird even of life . We had the sentence of death inourselves SO AS WE would not trust in us BUT IN GOD .
paul , written years ago to a church . Paul and them thought they were gonna die in that storm .
But simply learned to not trust in themselves BUT IN GOD WHO DOES DELIVER and can deliver .
THERE are reasons GOD allows things friend . But no matter what HE allows
JUST KNOW IT WORKS to the good of those who LOVE HIS CHRIST , WHO LOVE HIM .
 
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Behold

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But no matter what HE allows

Christianity is not....>>"become born again so that God can send you some pain, sorrow and death".

Thank you : Mr Calvin, however your Theology is of the DEVIL..

Christianity... it to exist in God's Favor, and do the work of God, being empowered by God's Spirit, to do it.
 

amigo de christo

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Christianity is not....>>"become born again so that God can send you some pain, sorrow and death".

Thank you : Mr Calvin, however your Theology is of the DEVIL..

Christianity... it to exist in God's Favor, and do the work of God, being empowered by God's Spirit, to do it.
Well christanity sure is to exist in Gods favor and do the work of GOD , being empowered by HIS SPIRIT to do it .
But lets not forget that many have bled throughout all times FOR HIS RIGHTEOUS CAUSE .
Many have been in prison , whipped , beaten , killed . even in prison we read about paul and silas SINGING .
Too many preach a COME TO GOD and you wont never have to face suffering or harships for HIS NAME .
JESUS said quite the opposite . HE said IN THIS WORLD YE SHALL HAVE tribulations , BUT TO fear not
OUR PEACE BE IN HIM . keep that in mind .
 
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Ritajanice

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Being Born Again, does not exclude us from pain ,and suffering........ pain and suffering for Christ, is part of the journey.

My opinion....pain and suffering is good, you learn much from it...empathy, compassion, patience, endurance, etc,etc.

Romans 5:3-53 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Short commentary.

God allows Christians to experience suffering and it gives us a chance to trust Him(Job 2; 2ndCorinthians 12:8-10; 1 Peter 4:12-13). Suffering is part of life, and everyone experiences pain and sorrow at some point in their life. Suffering reminds us of our dependence upon the Lord.

I have suffered greatly as a Born Again, God allowed it, and I thank him for it. I’m much closer to God as a result of that suffering.....My belief.
 
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Behold

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Being Born Again, does not exclude us from pain ,and suffering........ pain and suffering for Christ, is part of the journey.

Life does not exclude you from pain, suffering and death.

The Devil does not exclude you from pain, suffering, and if he can Kill you He will do it., and that is not God allowing Him to do it.

Christianity, is not God allowing the DEVIL to come into your life ,as Lying Calvinist teach.

Paul told you that you are to "put on the whole armor of God, to stand against the plots, the schemes, and the designs, of the DeviL"

So, that is not God making Plains with the DEVIL....= that is the DEVIL doing what he Plans., and you are to DEAL WITH IT, with Him.

Calvinism, that would have the deceived believer teaching that God is sending the devil into your life.... is a LIE.. a demonic deceiving Lie, and people who spread it, are doing the devil's work.
And that is not GOD causing you to do it.......if the READER is the one SELLING Calvinism.
 

Bruce-Leiter

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Well there ya go then.... you only look at the scriptures that embrace your desire to live in pain and not be delivered while rejecting the many promises God has made for deliverance.

This is rejoicing in thy pain and suffering and glorifying it!




That's what you are doing, enjoy!





You are talking in circles... why would anyone want to "struggle to imagine a better means to seduce God's children away from His will"

And whassup with the foul language??? Does the "spirit" you follow lead you to use foul language? That's not of God.
All of the Scripture's promises of deliverance from pain and suffering God will fulfill with his great gifts of our resurrection bodies. All such deliverance in this life is temporary, except for his gift of the inner peace of Philippians 4:6-7, when we focus on Jesus. He heals us directly or through medical means now, but we will all die, regardless of how much we try to prevent it from happening.
 

Ritajanice

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In Job 1:1-22, the dialogue between God and Satan shows Satan asking God for approval before he can act against Job. Sometimes God tests us by allowing Satan to tempt us. Because God knows that He will get glory out of it by making wrong things right, and Satan will fail, God allows us to be tempted.

God has allowed me to be tempted by Satan....Satan knows my strengths in the Lord and he knows my weaknesses...God is turning my weaknesses into his strengths...

Only God can turn my weakness into his strength...and he’s true to his word..Praise His Holy Name!

And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. …

1 Corinthians 10:13 In-Context 13 No testing has overtaken you that is not common to everyone. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tested beyond your strength, but with the testing he will also provide the way out so that you may be able to endure it
 
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Behold

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In Job 1:1-22, the dialogue between God and Satan shows Satan asking God for approval before he can act against Job

Try to realize that JOB was not a Born Again Christian, who is under the New Covenant.
So, you can't apply OT JOB's experience... Literally to the Body of Christ, and it be a teaching that is true.

If you study the story of Job, you'll find that Job caused it to happen to Himself.

He said this...>>"What i FEARED, has come upon me"..

See that?

"what i FEARED".....

So, that allowed this....

"The devil walks about as a roaring Lion, seeking Whom, He may Devour"..

Who is that?

= The Fearful, as Fear is the opposite of Faith....yet, fear is actually FAITH in the FEAR..

So, if you have FAITH in the FEAR.........in other words.....If you BELIEVE something bad is going to happen to you, then that is your FAITH, and Jesus said........that your faith will produce the situation, as its by your FAITH that you get what you are believing for.....

So, Job's FEAR, was His Faith... and that Faith in what He feared, brought it to him.
 

Ritajanice

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The children of God are under the protection of the Spirit..

Only Gods Love can conquer our fear, when I was a new babe, I was in dreadful fear and anxiety ,as I walked with the Lord ,put my complete trust in him, he started to show me that fear was of the devil, even though I fell in love with God..I had a terrible fear of men.

I would tremble if any of them got near me as a new babe....was abused by men...anyway, all of that fear and suffering I endured, was all part and parcel of my walk with God, and his plan for my life ...he showed me that only he could heal me of my emotional pain and fear of men.

It was all meant to be, he has set me free from emotional pain of my past and free from the fear of men....my faith has been tested beyond words could ever explain....my faith has grown beyond my comprehension....Praise God for the gift of Faith, that can now move mountains...

It’s true what God says...supernatural faith can move mountains..mind blowing!..why because we act on God given faith.....

What is active faith in the Bible?
Faith in Godis active faith. When caught up in the activity of God, we are compassionate in our work, compliant in our obedience to God, and completely dependent on Him; we act in courage. This is living by faith and demonstrates the life of Jesus Christ is in us.
 
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Bruce-Leiter

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Life does not exclude you from pain, suffering and death.

The Devil does not exclude you from pain, suffering, and if he can Kill you He will do it., and that is not God allowing Him to do it.

Christianity, is not God allowing the DEVIL to come into your life ,as Lying Calvinist teach.

Paul told you that you are to "put on the whole armor of God, to stand against the plots, the schemes, and the designs, of the DeviL"

So, that is not God making Plains with the DEVIL....= that is the DEVIL doing what he Plans., and you are to DEAL WITH IT, with Him.

Calvinism, that would have the deceived believer teaching that God is sending the devil into your life.... is a LIE.. a demonic deceiving Lie, and people who spread it, are doing the devil's work.
And that is not GOD causing you to do it.......if the READER is the one SELLING Calvinism.
Behold, as a thorough-going Calvinist educated in a conservative Reformed seminary, I would never say that God causes pain and suffering. However, he does allow it to happen, as a good father for the good of his children, as they grow up. The causes are NOT divine.

I wonder how much you agree with the clear teaching of Job 1 and 2, where God shows us that he allowed Satan to take away Job's family and wealth, then his health, but not his life. He PERMITTED Job to suffer for a very good purpose so that Job would humble himself before the Creator of the universe, who rules his universe and human lives.

I wonder if you believe the following passages:

Psa_22:28 For kingship belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
Psa_59:13 consume them in wrath; consume them till they are no more, that they may know that God rules over Jacob to the ends of the earth.
Psa_66:7 who rules by his might forever, whose eyes keep watch on the nations— let not the rebellious exalt themselves.
Psa_103:19 The LORD has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.

If God doesn't rule and limit Satan, who is the devil responsible to? He is not God; but he is a limited, evil angel. I wonder what you think of the havoc the devil brings. What does God have to do with it? He certainly doesn't send Satan and his many minions into our lives. Of course not, but he brings good out of Satan's attacks for the spiritual growth of believers.

Why did God the Father and the second Person, who became Jesus, plan Jesus' coming, suffering, and death ( Act 2:23--Peter said to the Pentecost crowd, "This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.")? Through Jesus' suffering and death, God brought salvation to us who believe. I wonder if you believe these Scriptures.

I also wonder if you believe that God inspired all the Bible, since you seem to doubt Job 1 and 2, the Psalms about God's rulership, and Peter's interpretation of Jesus' crucifixion. I wonder if you believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 and 2 Peter 1:19-21--

2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

I say these things in brotherly love, because I consider you to be a brother in Christ. My recommendation is that you stop attacking fellow Christians, who believe the whole Bible's teachings; they are Calvinists. Instead, do a little introspection about the extent of your beliefs concerning the inspiration of the Bible and the reason you seem to ignore some passages that don't agree with your ideas.
 

Behold

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The children of God are under the protection of the Spirit..

Actually, the born again have the Spirit of God in them, but that does not protect them, it just empowers them and leads them, if they have not become faith broken.. .("Fallen from Grace") because Calvin or Mormonism, or JW, or any of the other Cults... (doctrines of devils)...(Hebrews 13:9).....now owns their mind and has destroyed their understanding of Salvation, and all that Paul actually teaches.

See, if the HS was a security service eternally set to "automatic Devil Defeat", then Paul would not have told you, to :


1.) "Put on the Armor of God".
2.) Paul would not have told you to "walk in the Spirit".
3.) Paul would not have told you to "reckon the old man dead".
4.) The born again would not need to "call those things that be not", by Faith, so that God will change the harmful circumstance...you are IN...
5.) We would not need to Plead the Blood of Jesus, over ourselves, over our family, ect.
6.) WE would never need to PRAY, if the Holy Spirit was always protecting us from HARM.

4.) James Chapter 4 : would not have told us to "resist the Devil"., which of course Proves that if God was sending the Devil to crush your life then you could not "resist the Devil".
 

Ritajanice

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wonder how much you agree with the clear teaching of Job 1 and 2, where God shows us that he allowed Satan to take away Job's family and wealth, then his health, but not his life. He PERMITTED Job to suffer for a very good purpose so that Job would humble himself before the Creator of the universe, who rules his universe and human lives.
And he has humbled me exactly the same way as job.....I have suffered since being a Born Again, but, nothing like poor job.

Praise God for allowing my suffering, as he taught me what it truly is to be humble and is still teaching me to become more humble.

The enemy knows our weakness...and God can show us his cunning ways...once you have discerned the cunning ways of the enemy...you’ve outwitted the enemy...but...we can’t rest on our laurels so to speak.

Once one has discerned the tactics the enemy uses, to reel you in, you’ve hit the jackpot.so to speak.

Only God can give you that gift of discernment...a wonderfully gift from God at that.

Oh that enemy is as cunning as a fox, but he can’t ever outsmart the Lord!
 
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Bruce-Leiter

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My thorn in the flesh are all the SOB’s in the world that otherwise would make Christianity easy to practice.
A liberal Bible commentator whom I read on the Gospel of John said after he wrote his commentary, "John believed in the Trinity."