Believing is the qualifier to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. If a person does not believe they should not be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
What is the purpose of infant baptism?
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Not now @Taken--time to push back against the heretical teachings of the RCC and slowly taking ground.
Scriptural Reference:
The phrase "taking captive every high and lofty" is reminiscent of 2 Corinthians 10:5 (NIV): "We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
This verse speaks about the spiritual battle believers face, where they are called to demolish false arguments and thoughts that oppose God’s truth, bringing them under the authority of Christ.
Spiritual Warfare:
In the context of spiritual warfare, "high and lofty" could refer to spiritual strongholds, ideologies, or powers that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God.
Believers are called to engage in this warfare not with physical weapons but with spiritual weapons (Ephesians 6:12), relying on the power of God to overcome.
Victory in Christ:
The act of "taking captive" signifies bringing under control or subjugation. In Christ, believers have the authority to overcome spiritual opposition and establish God’s reign in their lives and spheres of influence.
This victory is attributed to Christ’s triumph over all powers and authorities through his death and resurrection (Colossians 2:15).
Application:
Believers are encouraged to actively engage in spiritual disciplines such as prayer, worship, and studying God’s Word to discern and combat false teachings and ideologies.
By submitting every aspect of their lives to Christ’s lordship, believers participate in the ongoing process of spiritual transformation and renewal (Romans 12:2).
Syntax and Grammar
Taking captive: Phrase indicating the action of capturing or subduing.
Every high and lofty: Adjective phrases describing what is being taken captive, suggesting things that are elevated or exalted.
Biblical Perspective
2 Corinthians 10:5: Provides direct insight into the spiritual warfare aspect of taking captive every thought and argument that opposes God.
Colossians 2:8-10: Warns against being taken captive by hollow and deceptive philosophies, emphasizing the supremacy of Christ over all powers and authorities.
Ephesians 6:12: Reminds believers that their struggle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces of evil.
In summary, "taking captive every high and lofty" encapsulates the spiritual battle believers face against ideologies and powers that oppose God. It underscores the believer’s reliance on Christ’s authority and the transformative power of the gospel in overcoming spiritual strongholds.
Shalom
J.
Hello Taken,
Reading the narrative of the vision concerning, Moses and Elijah on the mountain. Was a vision of who was the answer, to all the issues which would finally be put to rest. Moses, and Elijah, also though in this vision, were indeed dead (except for the spirit of Elijah which John the Baptist exuded in apparently fond of the life that he lived.) All the promises were going to come and be fulfilled within this vision in which the Lord Yeshua, would also be returning to the former glory, with his Father sitting with him, together as one, at least that is a promise made in Revelation, and spoken of by Jesus, concerning the former glory which he had came from being the WORD, before becoming into flesh, born of the spirit.
I do not know what God has in store for us after this life, but there must be some work. Maybe some people are sent to watch over people like "angels sent to help people, kind of shows." It seems many people would hate that "work" in heaven would be something to do! We are supposed to praise and worship God and sing all day, and live some type of blissfulness, I am sure it will be blissful, and that we can join others and feast with them, and maybe even go out with some and help those in the darkness come to the light of God. Again, who really knows, I am "resting at peace" to some degree at my job; in knowing that me and Yahava are good, because of the Lord Jesus Christ. I faithfully believe he will take care of the things that are out of my hands, but also help direct me by the spirit to help me say what needs to be done and said concerning the situations that come about within life in general living faithfully, and seeking Yahavah, and believing and hoping that he is there for you always, and desire, to be helped by the spirit, brings us in that peaceful knowing of God loving you, despite your imperfections.
Many people are expecting people to be in hell, when they get in heaven but may find opposing judgment and sent to live outside the gate. This is why I mainly just choose to be direct on what is believed concerning what is on the bible, in which presents an outside and inside of the kingdom of Heaven, and there is not said there is just complete rest or that there is not anything to do at all. One of those things is hoping to help others, even after this life, to come to know God... if they so choose, but again that is something faithfully believed. It has nothing to do with being 100% correct or that I may be seen as wrong, however, those things are still spoken about.
To exclude the needy, is just a problem that is in need of worked out, and no one can do that work but themselves. And I do not know why, it would be wrong from son or daughter to ask God to say hi to their grandma for them, or maybe to not give up on an "supposed member that is eternally separated from Yahavah, until they choose to come through those open gates."
It's said that "the saints are ones who supposedly judge others who come into heaven" Maybe there is a whole generation that come before you did, that will judge you. Man, I don't know. All I can do is simply pass on information to consider, even in regard to other people who may suggest there may be nothing to do even in heaven after this life. That to me would be way too much for my liking... to have nothing to do. Many people who retired shortly after having worked enough to achieve that ability, died shortly after.
Then again, considering the amount of information this will be read or skipped. It doesn't stop any of it from being any less possibly being true to some degree or another. The answer is Jesus, who took the sins away. He did that already. Now it's time for us, you, or anyone else to decide to turn to the one who did that on their behalf or reject him, (doesn't mean there sin is not paid for) it just means they openly reject Yeshua, and they may not just agree with the Jesus taught in Church, or on the Tv. There are those who choose to obstinate themselves away and to see themselves perhaps above God, or God themselves. Still a judgement is coming regardless, good enough to go through the Gates?
According to a former generation, who took a view of your life, and they say come back later? That would suck, we had plenty of times, right now as time continues to tick forward, right? Im not gonna be to upset, I don't believe I wouldn't desire to feel upset, but however the hope is that Yeshua, can sneak me on by and into the Kingdom, and get me to where I need to be to go and help do what he desires according to his Fathers will, and not my own... I hope for that peace, that will be out of this natural body... that has to be more pleasing. Thankfully this flesh doesn't please him, it's faith that pleases him, and thus we can have peace.
Don't you recognize sarcasm when you see it? It's YOU who thinks the exact phrase "in the name of Jesus Christ" must be used in baptisms, without alteration or substitution, or else the baptism is ineffective. You discount functional equivalence in favor of verbal exactitude.
The phrase “in the name of” generally means “on the authority of.” On this definition, baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” holds the exact same meaning as baptism “on the authority of Jesus Christ.” If I am baptized “on the authority of the Son,” have I not been baptized “on the authority of Jesus Christ”? Of course I have!
Alternatively, the phrase “in the name of” can mean “in allegiance to the doctrine of.” On this definition, baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” holds the exact same meaning as baptism “in allegiance to the doctrine of Jesus Christ.” If I am baptized “in allegiance to the doctrine of the Son,” have I not been baptized “in allegiance to the doctrine of Jesus Christ”? Of course I have!
My point will still hold for any meaning of “in the name of” you care to propose.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Forgiving a murderer, who is dead, is for the benefit of the living on earth.
check this out:
Prayer For The Dead (vs. Calvin #57) Prayer For The Dead (vs. Calvin #57)
This is an installment of a series of replies (see the Introduction and Master List) to much of Book IV (Of the Holy Catholic Church) — and some of Book Calvin seems to have missed the portions of Scripture about prayer for the dead that his theology predisposes him to oppose. Catholics do not...
www.patheos.com
On the practice of praying for the dead, Martin Luther wrote:
As for the dead, since Scripture gives us no information on the subject, I regard it as no sin to pray with free devotion in this or some similar fashion: 'Dear God, if this soul is in a condition accessible to mercy, be thou gracious to it.' And when this has been done once or twice, let it suffice. (Luther’s Works, Vol. 37, p. 369)
The Augsburg Confession (Article XXIV, 94) notes:
Now, as regards the adversaries’ citing the Fathers concerning the offering for the dead, we know that the ancients speak of prayer for the dead, which we do not prohibit; . . .
So, Luther and Ursinus seem to have left it up to the individual as to whether to pray for the dead, on grounds that Scripture neither commands nor forbids it.
Prayer for the dead is a tradition handed down to us by the early Church Fathers. That includes Augustine, judging by the prayer offered for his mother in his Confessions (“I know that she acted mercifully, and from the heart forgave her debtors their debts; do Thou also forgive her debts, whatever she contracted during so many years since the water of salvation. Forgive her, O Lord, forgive her, I beseech You; enter not into judgment with her.”) Logos Virtual Library: Saint Augustine: Confessions, IX, 13
It includes Cyril of Jerusalem, in his Lectures On the Mysteries (“For I know that many say, what is a soul profited, which departs from this world either with sins, or without sins, if it be commemorated in the prayer? For if a king were to banish certain who had given him offence, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves.”) Philip Schaff: NPNF2-07. Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzen - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
It includes John Chrysostom, in his Homily 3 on Philippians (“Not in vain did the Apostles order that remembrance should be made of the dead in the dreadful Mysteries. They know that great gain resulteth to them, great benefit; for when the whole people stands with uplifted hands, a priestly assembly, and that awful Sacrifice lies displayed, how shall we not prevail with God by our entreaties for them?”) Philip Schaff: NPNF1-13. Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Over eighty such sources are collected in Boggis’ Praying for the Dead: An Historical Review of the Practice (1913). It is a grave mistake to dismiss such pervasive tradition as ill-conceived.
As for the dead, since Scripture gives us no information on the subject, I regard it as no sin to pray with free devotion in this or some similar fashion: 'Dear God, if this soul is in a condition accessible to mercy, be thou gracious to it.' And when this has been done once or twice, let it suffice. (Luther’s Works, Vol. 37, p. 369)
The Augsburg Confession (Article XXIV, 94) notes:
Now, as regards the adversaries’ citing the Fathers concerning the offering for the dead, we know that the ancients speak of prayer for the dead, which we do not prohibit; . . .
So, Luther and Ursinus seem to have left it up to the individual as to whether to pray for the dead, on grounds that Scripture neither commands nor forbids it.
Prayer for the dead is a tradition handed down to us by the early Church Fathers. That includes Augustine, judging by the prayer offered for his mother in his Confessions (“I know that she acted mercifully, and from the heart forgave her debtors their debts; do Thou also forgive her debts, whatever she contracted during so many years since the water of salvation. Forgive her, O Lord, forgive her, I beseech You; enter not into judgment with her.”) Logos Virtual Library: Saint Augustine: Confessions, IX, 13
It includes Cyril of Jerusalem, in his Lectures On the Mysteries (“For I know that many say, what is a soul profited, which departs from this world either with sins, or without sins, if it be commemorated in the prayer? For if a king were to banish certain who had given him offence, and then those who belong to them should weave a crown and offer it to him on behalf of those under punishment, would he not grant a remission of their penalties? In the same way we, when we offer to Him our supplications for those who have fallen asleep, though they be sinners, weave no crown, but offer up Christ sacrificed for our sins, propitiating our merciful God for them as well as for ourselves.”) Philip Schaff: NPNF2-07. Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzen - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
It includes John Chrysostom, in his Homily 3 on Philippians (“Not in vain did the Apostles order that remembrance should be made of the dead in the dreadful Mysteries. They know that great gain resulteth to them, great benefit; for when the whole people stands with uplifted hands, a priestly assembly, and that awful Sacrifice lies displayed, how shall we not prevail with God by our entreaties for them?”) Philip Schaff: NPNF1-13. Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Over eighty such sources are collected in Boggis’ Praying for the Dead: An Historical Review of the Practice (1913). It is a grave mistake to dismiss such pervasive tradition as ill-conceived.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Those IN heaven are departed saved souls, quickened spirit….their body dead, decaying, rotting in the ground.
I am ON earth with a saved soul, quickened spirit and alive body…
Neither they IN heaven or ON earth are PERFECT until their body is raised up IN Glory…NOT YET OCCURRED…Coming soon.
Nah.
Define the meaning of your comment…”deaf and dumb”.
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
You're almost there. You're lacking a little documented history, however...
St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch ordained by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about.
It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
See the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf
The official title of the Catholic Church does not include the word "Roman." The word "Roman" was tacked on by the Anglicans way late in the game as a pejorative.
The Catholic Church is the same Church founded by Christ in the beginning, which still exists today and includes the majority of Christians. It has the same heirarchy as established by Christ and the Apostles in the beginning. It is not broken up into tens of thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting denominations, all based on personal interpretation of Scripture in opposition to 2 Peter 1:20-21. In Protestantism, every man is his own pope. They are not in union with Christ's Church since they have chosen to be separated from her. Christ's Church is one, not just in governance, but in doctrine. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the doctrines handed to mankind by Christ through the Apostles.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Well put. At the same time, Catholics are instructed to regard all baptized in Christ as brothers and sisters in the Lord. We don't claim to be the only church with truths. See CCC817-820 (reading time, less than one minute)
When a Catholic is apprised of Magisterial teaching, does his "full knowledge" follow, such that his deliberate rejection of that teaching will automatically be a mortal sin?
Show me in this verse where it mention "mortal sin" or venial sin and what is the Greek word for "full knowledge?"
The Bible does not explicitly categorize sins into "mortal" and "venial" as found in later theological developments, particularly within the Roman Catholic tradition. However, the concept of varying degrees of sinfulness and their consequences can be discerned in Scripture through various passages, even if not labeled in the specific terms of "mortal" and "venial."
In Catholic theology, mortal sins are grave offenses that lead to the loss of sanctifying grace and require three conditions: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. Venial sins, while sinful and damaging to the soul, do not result in the loss of sanctifying grace and are less severe.
Old Testament
Degrees of Sin and Guilt Offerings: In the Old Testament, the Law given to Moses includes various laws that prescribe different offerings and punishments based on the severity of the sin. For instance, Leviticus 4 and 5 discuss different sin and guilt offerings for unintentional sins, suggesting an acknowledgment of varying degrees of sinfulness.
Intentional vs. Unintentional Sin: Numbers 15:27-31 differentiates between sins committed unintentionally and those committed "with a high hand" (intentionally and defiantly). The former could be atoned for by a sacrifice, while the latter resulted in being cut off from the community, indicating a more severe consequence for willful sin.
New Testament
Sins Leading to Death: In the New Testament, 1 John 5:16-17 makes a distinction that aligns somewhat with the concepts of mortal and venial sins: "If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." This passage suggests a differentiation between sins that are more spiritually fatal and those that are less so.
Jesus' Teachings: Jesus' teachings also imply varying degrees of sin. For example, in Matthew 5:19, Jesus says, "Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." This indicates a hierarchy of commandment violations.
Greater Sin: In John 19:11, Jesus tells Pilate, "You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin." This indicates that some sins are considered greater than others.
Pauline Epistles
Consequences of Sin: Paul's letters also touch on the severity and consequences of different sins. In Galatians 5:19-21, he lists "the acts of the flesh" and concludes that "those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God," suggesting severe consequences for certain sins.
Degrees of Punishment: 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 discusses the idea of being saved, yet "as through fire," based on the quality of one's work, implying varying degrees of reward and possibly punishment.
Conclusion
While the Bible does not use the terms "mortal" and "venial," it clearly acknowledges varying degrees of sin and their consequences, laying a foundation that would later be more formally articulated in Christian theological traditions. The distinction between more severe sins that lead to spiritual death and less severe sins that do not is present in both the Old and New Testaments, reflecting an understanding of the gravity and impact of different sinful behaviors on one's spiritual state and relationship with God.
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If all three are met, it’s mortally sinful. Otherwise, “one commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent” (CCC 1862). That’s still a problem, since venial sin “weakens charity” and “impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good,” and “deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin,” but venial sin does not (of itself) “deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness” (CCC 1863).
What does “grave matter” mean? It means that the sin is serious. But how do we evaluate the seriousness of a sin? The Catechism is explicit about the grave nature of particular sins, including sacrilege (2120), blasphemy (2148), perjury (2152), deliberately avoiding Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation (2181), murder (2268), hatred of neighbor “when one deliberately desires him grave harm” (2303), prostitution (2355), sexual relations outside marriage (2390), and adulation that “makes one an accomplice in another’s vices or grave sins” (2480). St. Paul likewise gives lists in Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 of sins whose practitioners will not “inherit the kingdom of God.” But none of these lists is exhaustive.
More broadly, the Catechism says that “grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments” (1858), pointing to Jesus’ words to the rich young man. When the man asks him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”, Jesus answers, “You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your father and mother’” (Mark 10:17,19). Jesus’ clear implication seems to be that those who do commit adultery, steal, etc. shall not inherit eternal life.
Even here, there are two important caveats. On the one hand, not every violation of the Ten Commandments is a mortal sin. For instance, the person who steals a dollar is not necessarily damned. On the other hand, not every mortal sin is a direct and obvious violation of the Ten Commandments. St. Thomas Aquinas considers this objection directly in considering the sin of gluttony: “Every mortal sin is contrary to a precept of the Decalogue: and this, apparently, does not apply to gluttony.” Aquinas argues that gluttony is an indirect violation of the Third Commandment (keeping the Sabbath holy) by turning us away from holiness. That’s a strange answer, but he explains: “Mortal sins are not all directly opposed to the precepts of the Decalogue [Ten Commandments], but only those which contain injustice: because the precepts of the Decalogue pertain specially to justice and its parts.” In other words, the Ten Commandments lay out “the first principles” of the moral law; they’re not an exhaustive list of every serious sin. The right question is this: is this the kind of behavior that places something else above God or turns me away from God? If so, it’s grave matter.
In considering whether or not a sin is mortal, circumstances matter. For instance, the Catechism points out that “one must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger” (1858). Likewise, stealing from the excess wealth of a millionaire is less evil than stealing the food of a starving man. Taking the example of lying, the Catechism explains how to determine the gravity of a sin: “The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity” (2484).
Mortal Sin: The Basics
An action can be wrong without being sinful. And a sinful action is not necessarily mortally sinful. Here's how to parse out the distinctions.
A site I wouldn't visit.
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Catholic ekklesia--
Historical Perspective
Early Christianity: The term "Catholic" (from the Greek katholikos, meaning "universal" or "according to the whole") was first used to describe the Church in the early second century by St. Ignatius of Antioch. In his letter to the Smyrnaeans, he wrote, "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 8:2). This early usage underscores the Church's universality in faith, doctrine, and community.
Ecumenical Councils: Throughout history, the ecumenical councils, beginning with the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, aimed to address and resolve theological disputes and heresies to maintain the Church's unity and universality. These councils reinforced the idea of a universal Church governed by a unified doctrine and practice.
Theological Perspective
Creeds and Universality: The Nicene Creed, recited in Catholic liturgy, professes belief in "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church." The term "catholic" here signifies the Church's universality, encompassing all times and places, transcending ethnic, cultural, and national boundaries.
Salvation and Universality: According to Catholic theology, the Church is the universal sacrament of salvation. As articulated in documents like Lumen Gentium from the Second Vatican Council, the Church is seen as necessary for salvation because it is through the Church that the fullness of the means of salvation is available. This universal mission is based on the Great Commission given by Jesus Christ to "go and make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19).
Ecclesiological Perspective
Papal Primacy and Collegiality: The universal Catholic Church is united under the leadership of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, who is considered the successor of St. Peter. This primacy ensures a visible source of unity and authority. However, the Church also practices collegiality, where bishops collectively share responsibility for the Church's universal mission.
Global Presence: The universal Catholic Church is present worldwide, organized into dioceses and parishes, each under the leadership of a bishop or pastor. Despite cultural and liturgical diversity, these local churches maintain communion with the Pope and the universal Church, reflecting unity in diversity.
Ecumenism: The Catholic Church's understanding of universality also includes efforts toward Christian unity, seeking to restore full communion with other Christian denominations. The ecumenical movement, significantly shaped by the Second Vatican Council, emphasizes the Church's mission to be a universal sign of unity.
Practical Implications
Liturgical Universality: Despite variations in rites and traditions (e.g., Roman Rite, Eastern Catholic Rites), the Catholic Church's liturgical practices reflect its universality. The Eucharist, celebrated worldwide, is a central element of this unity.
Social Doctrine: The Church's social teachings, as articulated in documents like Rerum Novarum and Laudato Si', address global issues such as social justice, economic inequality, and environmental stewardship, reflecting the Church's universal concern for human dignity and the common good.
Missionary Activity: The Church's missionary work aims to spread the Gospel universally, respecting and engaging with diverse cultures while proclaiming the universal message of Christ. This mission is rooted in the belief that the Church is called to be a light to all nations (Isaiah 49:6).
Conclusion
The universal Catholic Church embodies a rich tapestry of theological, historical, and practical elements that emphasize its mission to be a global and inclusive community of faith. Rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ and the apostolic tradition, the Catholic Church strives to maintain unity in doctrine and practice while embracing cultural diversity, aiming to fulfill its role as a universal sacrament of salvation and a sign of God's kingdom on earth.
You mean this Catholic Church @Augustin56?
Marymog
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Lol GG.....Yes, please let us set the record straight with facts.
In post #754 you said, "It's wrong to ask that priests not marry. There is no mention of this in the NT...."
Let's set your broken record straight: The record shows that the men who choose to serve God and his sheep are NOT asked to marry. They CHOOSE not to marry! Soooo you are wrong about that.
The record shows that even though the NT never comes right out and says "Priests can't be married" it does say The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; he who refrains from marriage will do better” The Catholic Church agrees with that statement and opens the door to men AND women who CHOOSE not to marry and serve the Lord.
Jesus said, some have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it. The Church agrees with Jesus. YOU and your protestant minions have a problem with men who have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God and CHOOSING to be a priest.
It is true that The Church allowed married men to be priests until the 11th century when Pope Gregory VII issued a decree requiring all priests to be celibate. The Church has never said that priestly celibacy is a written fact in Scripture; it is a discipline enforced by The Church. Jesus was celibate and priest are to be like Jesus AND read above quotes from Scripture for further reasoning of this discipline.
So now, as you can see, Scripture does back up what The Church teaches.
Thank you for your opinions on this matter though............I will stick with Scripture.
What verse are you thinking about?
The Greek word for full knowledge is ἐπίγνωσις. Why do you ask?
No where in these two isolated verses are saints interceding in our behalf
Sorry-this was addressed to @BreadOfLife and on Rev. 5.8 and where "they" intercede in our behalf.
I would put it differently. Scripture neither commands nor forbids a celibate priesthood. So the Church's teaching on the subject is consistent with but not backed up by Scripture -- Paul's preference for celibacy notwithstanding.
And I would put it this way--
Scriptural Basis
Old Testament Context: In the Old Testament, priests (particularly Levites) were typically married, and there were no explicit commands regarding celibacy for those in priestly service.
New Testament Context: The New Testament does not command or forbid a celibate priesthood. However, it contains passages that are often interpreted to support the practice:
Jesus' Teachings: In Matthew 19:12, Jesus speaks of those who "have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." While this does not directly command celibacy for priests, it suggests that celibacy can be a valid choice for those dedicated to spiritual work.
Paul’s Preference for Celibacy: In 1 Corinthians 7:7-8, Paul expresses a personal preference for celibacy: "I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am." Paul views celibacy as advantageous for those devoted to ministry, as it allows for undivided attention to the Lord's work (1 Corinthians 7:32-35).
Church Tradition and Teaching
Early Church Practice: In the early Christian communities, both married and celibate clergy existed. The choice of celibacy was often seen as a special calling and a way to emulate Christ's own celibate life.
Development of Clerical Celibacy: Over the centuries, the Latin Church (Roman Catholic Church) developed the discipline of clerical celibacy. This became more formalized with the First Lateran Council in 1123 and the Second Lateran Council in 1139, which mandated celibacy for all clergy in the Latin Rite.
Theological Rationale: The Church's teaching on celibacy is rooted in theological and pastoral reasons:
Imitation of Christ: Celibacy is seen as a way for priests to more closely follow the example of Christ, who was celibate.
Undivided Service: Celibacy allows priests to dedicate themselves fully to the service of God and the Church without the responsibilities that come with marriage and family life.
Sign of the Kingdom: Celibacy is viewed as a sign of the eschatological kingdom of God, where "they neither marry nor are given in marriage" (Matthew 22:30).
Conclusion
Your statement, "Scripture neither commands nor forbids a celibate priesthood. So the Church's teaching on the subject is consistent with but not backed up by Scripture -- Paul's preference for celibacy notwithstanding," accurately captures the essence of the issue. Scripture does not explicitly mandate celibacy for priests, but it provides a foundation that the Church has built upon. Paul's preference for celibacy and Jesus' words about those who renounce marriage for the kingdom suggest that celibacy is a respected and valued state in Christian life. The Church's discipline of celibacy for priests in the Latin Rite is consistent with these scriptural principles, even if it is not directly commanded by Scripture.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
That's only one condition. All three conditions, previously mentioned, must be met before something is a mortal sin. A mortal sin means complete willful separation from God. For example, a woman who murders her unborn baby is committing a mortal sin provided all three conditions are met (which it usually is). But it's not a sin against the Church, it's a sin against God and humanity.
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