What is the purpose of infant baptism?

[Taken]

You blew it again . . .

WHO are the "SAINTS" being spoken of here?

Rev. 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

The “saints” are always the “same” who are WITH Christ and Christ WITH Them.

The 24 Elders, (most likely they who rule with Christ and give praise and song unto the Lamb of God) each having a THRONE and GOLDEN CROWN are the guardians of the prayers offered up to Heaven revealed as incense in golden bowls.

 

[Taken]

YAWN . . .1720978908536.png…

Ewee Yipes BOL cover your mouth.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

View attachment 47756 View attachment 47757

Catholic vestments, worn by clergy during liturgical ceremonies, are rich in history, symbolism, and theological significance. These garments, varying in color and style, are not merely ornamental but carry deep spiritual meaning. (as does the vestments of the Jewish High Priest) This article delves into the fascinating world of Catholic vestments, exploring their origins, symbolism, and role in the liturgy, with references from authoritative Catholic texts.

Catholic Vestments: An Exploration of History, Theology, and Symbolism

Catholic vestments, worn by clergy during liturgical ceremonies, are rich in history, symbolism, and theological significance. These garments, varying in color and style, are not merely ornamental but…

www.catholicshare.com

Prayers said by priests while vesting:

https://www.sfcatholic.org/worship/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2016/10/Vesting-Prayers-for-Priests-English.pdf

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

 

[BreadOfLife]

The “saints” are always the “same” who are WITH Christ and Christ WITH Them.

The 24 Elders, (most likely they who rule with Christ and give praise and song unto the Lamb of God) each having a THRONE and GOLDEN CROWN are the guardians of the prayers offered up to Heaven revealed as incense in golden bowls.

Exactly -
The saints are on EARTH and the saints in Heaven intercede on their (our) behalf, according to Rev. 8:5.

There is NO getting around this Biblical fact . . .

 

[Johann]

Exactly -
The saints are on EARTH and the saints in Heaven intercede on their (our) behalf, according to Rev. 8:5.

There is NO getting around this Biblical fact . . .

Error--

Statement Analysis
Statement: "The saints are on EARTH and the saints in Heaven intercede on their (our) behalf, according to Rev. 8:5."

Scripture Referenced: Revelation 8:5 (KJV)
"And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

Examination of Revelation 8:5
Context of Revelation 8:5:

Revelation 8:3-4 gives more context:
"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand."
This passage describes an angel offering incense mixed with the prayers of the saints, which ascends before God.
Revelation 8:5:

This verse describes the angel taking the censer filled with fire from the altar and casting it to the earth, resulting in significant phenomena (voices, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake).
Issues with the Statement
Misinterpretation of Revelation 8:5:

Revelation 8:5 does not explicitly mention saints in heaven interceding for saints on earth. Instead, it describes the angel's actions with the censer and the subsequent events on earth.
Context of Intercession:

While the broader context in Revelation 8:3-4 mentions the prayers of the saints being offered, it does not specifically state that saints in heaven are interceding for saints on earth. It focuses on the angel's role in presenting these prayers before God.
Correct Interpretation
Prayers of the Saints:

Revelation 8:3-4 suggests that the prayers of the saints (believers) are being offered to God, symbolized by incense. This can be understood as the prayers of all believers, whether on earth or already in heaven, being presented to God.
Role of Angels:

The passage emphasizes the role of an angel in presenting these prayers before God, rather than depicting a direct intercession by saints in heaven for those on earth.
Revised Statement
To accurately reflect the biblical text and its context, the statement can be revised as follows:

Revised Statement:
"The prayers of the saints (believers) are presented before God, symbolized by incense, as described in Revelation 8:3-4. This passage highlights the role of an angel in offering these prayers before God, rather than depicting saints in heaven interceding directly for those on earth."


The original statement inaccurately attributes intercessory actions to the saints in heaven based on Revelation 8:5. A more accurate interpretation, grounded in Revelation 8:3-4, acknowledges the role of an angel in presenting the prayers of all believers to God, without specifying a direct intercession by heavenly saints for earthly-or earthly to heavenly believers.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

What is the purpose of infant baptism?

It is a trick of the devil to deceive people in to doing things God's Word does not teach us to do.

Splashing water on a baby doesn't do anything at all.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

The “saints” are always the “same” who are WITH Christ and Christ WITH Them.

The 24 Elders, (most likely they who rule with Christ and give praise and song unto the Lamb of God) each having a THRONE and GOLDEN CROWN are the guardians of the prayers offered up to Heaven revealed as incense in golden bowls.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholic vestments, worn by clergy during liturgical ceremonies, are rich in history, symbolism, and theological significance. These garments, varying in color and style, are not merely ornamental but carry deep spiritual meaning. (as does the vestments of the Jewish High Priest) This article delves into the fascinating world of Catholic vestments, exploring their origins, symbolism, and role in the liturgy, with references from authoritative Catholic texts.

Catholic Vestments: An Exploration of History, Theology, and Symbolism

Catholic vestments, worn by clergy during liturgical ceremonies, are rich in history, symbolism, and theological significance. These garments, varying in color and style, are not merely ornamental but…

www.catholicshare.com

Prayers said by priests while vesting:

https://www.sfcatholic.org/worship/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2016/10/Vesting-Prayers-for-Priests-English.pdf

Yup.

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Error--
Statement Analysis
Statement: "The saints are on EARTH and the saints in Heaven intercede on their (our) behalf, according to Rev. 8:5."
Scripture Referenced: Revelation 8:5 (KJV)
"And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

Examination of Revelation 8:5
Context of Revelation 8:5:

Revelation 8:3-4 gives more context:
"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand."
This passage describes an angel offering incense mixed with the prayers of the saints, which ascends before God.
Revelation 8:5:

This verse describes the angel taking the censer filled with fire from the altar and casting it to the earth, resulting in significant phenomena (voices, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake).
Issues with the Statement
Misinterpretation of Revelation 8:5:

Revelation 8:5 does not explicitly mention saints in heaven interceding for saints on earth. Instead, it describes the angel's actions with the censer and the subsequent events on earth.
Context of Intercession:

While the broader context in Revelation 8:3-4 mentions the prayers of the saints being offered, it does not specifically state that saints in heaven are interceding for saints on earth. It focuses on the angel's role in presenting these prayers before God.
Correct Interpretation
Prayers of the Saints:

Revelation 8:3-4 suggests that the prayers of the saints (believers) are being offered to God, symbolized by incense. This can be understood as the prayers of all believers, whether on earth or already in heaven, being presented to God.
Role of Angels:

The passage emphasizes the role of an angel in presenting these prayers before God, rather than depicting a direct intercession by saints in heaven for those on earth.
Revised Statement
To accurately reflect the biblical text and its context, the statement can be revised as follows:

Revised Statement:
"The prayers of the saints (believers) are presented before God, symbolized by incense, as described in Revelation 8:3-4. This passage highlights the role of an angel in offering these prayers before God, rather than depicting saints in heaven interceding directly for those on earth."


The original statement inaccurately attributes intercessory actions to the saints in heaven based on Revelation 8:5. A more accurate interpretation, grounded in Revelation 8:3-4, acknowledges the role of an angel in presenting the prayers of all believers to God, without specifying a direct intercession by heavenly saints for earthly-or earthly to heavenly believers.

Typo - it's Rev. 5:8.
Refute that, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is a trick of the devil to deceive people in to doing things God's Word does not teach us to do.

Splashing water on a baby doesn't do anything at all.

Why - because YOU say so??

Did cutting off the foreskin of a baby do anything in ther OT?

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

It is a trick of the devil to deceive people in to doing things God's Word does not teach us to do.

Splashing water on a baby doesn't do anything at all.

That's correct, because splashing water on a baby is not baptism. You present a Docetic or Dualistic argument when you subtract spirit from water. Adult only baptism is a man made tradition that started AFTER the Protestant Revolt. Luther and Calvin baptized infants, you don't mock them. And must you be so ill-mannered???

 

[Johann]

Yup.

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.

Rev 1:13 and καὶ in ἐν [the] midst μέσῳ of the τῶν lampstands, λυχνιῶν [One] like ὅμοιον [the] Son υἱὸν of Man, ἀνθρώπου, having been clothed ἐνδεδυμένον to the feet, ποδήρη and καὶ having been girded about περιεζωσμένον at πρὸς the τοῖς breasts μαστοῖς with a golden χρυσᾶν· sash. ζώνην

Rev 4:4 And καὶ around κυκλόθεν the τοῦ throne θρόνου [were] twenty-four εἴκοσι - τέσσαρες, thrones; θρόνους and καὶ sitting καθημένους on ἐπὶ the τοὺς thrones θρόνους twenty-four εἴκοσι - τέσσαρας elders, πρεσβυτέρους having been clothed περιβεβλημένους in ἐν white λευκοῖς, garments; ἱματίοις and καὶ on ἐπὶ their αὐτῶν - τὰς heads, κεφαλὰς golden χρυσοῦς. crowns. στεφάνους

Rev 6:11 And Καὶ to each ἑκάστῳ of them αὐτοῖς were given ἐδόθη white λευκή, robes, στολὴ and καὶ it was said ἐρρέθη to them αὐτοῖς that ἵνα they shall rest ἀναπαύσονται yet ἔτι a little μικρόν, time, χρόνον until ἕως their αὐτῶν - οἱ fellow servants σύνδουλοι would also be complete πληρωθῶσιν . . . , καὶ and καὶ their αὐτῶν - οἱ brothers, ἀδελφοὶ those οἱ being about μέλλοντες to be killed ἀποκτέννεσθαι as ὡς they αὐτοί. also [had been]. καὶ

Rev 7:9 After Μετὰ these things ταῦτα I looked, εἶδον, and καὶ behold, ἰδοὺ a great πολύς, multitude, ὄχλος which ὃν no one οὐδεὶς was able ἐδύνατο, to number ἀριθμῆσαι it, αὐτὸν out of ἐκ every παντὸς nation, ἔθνους and καὶ tribes, φυλῶν and καὶ peoples, λαῶν and καὶ tongues, γλωσσῶν, standing ἑστῶτες before ἐνώπιον the τοῦ throne θρόνου and καὶ before ἐνώπιον the τοῦ Lamb, Ἀρνίου, having been clothed with περιβεβλημένους white λευκάς, robes, στολὰς and καὶ palm branches φοίνικες in ἐν their αὐτῶν· - ταῖς hands. χερσὶν

Rev 15:6 And καὶ the οἱ seven ἑπτὰ angels ἄγγελοι - οἱ having ἔχοντες the τὰς seven ἑπτὰ plagues πληγὰς came forth ἐξῆλθον out ἐκ of the τοῦ temple, ναοῦ, having been clothed in ἐνδεδυμένοι pure, καθαρὸν bright λαμπρὸν linen, λίνον and καὶ having been girded with περιεζωσμένοι golden χρυσᾶς. sashes ζώνας around περὶ the τὰ chests. στήθη
Rev 15:7 And Καὶ one ἓν of ἐκ the τῶν four τεσσάρων living creatures ζῴων gave ἔδωκεν to the τοῖς seven ἑπτὰ angels ἀγγέλοις seven ἑπτὰ golden χρυσᾶς bowls φιάλας full γεμούσας of the τοῦ wrath θυμοῦ - τοῦ of God, Θεοῦ the [One] τοῦ living ζῶντος to εἰς the τοὺς ages αἰῶνας of the τῶν ages. αἰώνων.

Rev 19:13 and καὶ having been clothed with περιβεβλημένος a garment ἱμάτιον having been dipped βεβαμμένον in blood. αἵματι, And καὶ His αὐτοῦ - τὸ name ὄνομα is called κέκληται The Ὁ Word Λόγος - τοῦ of God. Θεοῦ.
Rev 19:14 And Καὶ the τὰ armies στρατεύματα who were τὰ in ἐν - τῷ heaven, οὐρανῷ having been clothed in ἐνδεδυμένοι pure, καθαρόν. white, λευκὸν fine linen βύσσινον were following ἠκολούθει Him αὐτῷ upon ἐφ’ white λευκοῖς, horses. ἵπποις
Rev 19:15 And καὶ out of ἐκ His αὐτοῦ - τοῦ mouth στόματος goes forth ἐκπορεύεται a sharp ὀξεῖα, sword, ῥομφαία so that ἵνα with ἐν it αὐτῇ He may strike down πατάξῃ the τὰ nations; ἔθνη· and καὶ He αὐτὸς will shepherd ποιμανεῖ them αὐτοὺς with ἐν a rod ῥάβδῳ of iron. σιδηρᾷ· And καὶ He αὐτὸς treads πατεῖ the τὴν press ληνὸν of the τοῦ wine οἴνου of the τοῦ fury θυμοῦ of the τῆς wrath ὀργῆς - τοῦ of God Θεοῦ the τοῦ Almighty. Παντοκράτορος.

Jesus as Our High Priest
Hebrews 4:14-16 (KJV)
"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

Hebrews 5:5-10 (KJV)
"So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 6:19-20 (KJV)
"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:23-28 (KJV)
"And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."

Hebrews 8:1-2 (KJV)
"Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man."

Hebrews 9:11-12 (KJV)
"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

Hebrews 10:11-14 (KJV)
"And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."


These scriptures from the Book of Hebrews highlight the unique and eternal priesthood of Jesus Christ. He is depicted as the perfect High Priest who offers the ultimate sacrifice for sins, not through repeated offerings, but through His own once-for-all sacrifice. His priesthood is described as everlasting, after the order of Melchizedek, and His intercession for believers is continuous and effective.

Amazing how you ignore context and "stay" in Rev.

Christ Jesus is our King, Prophet and Priest.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Luther and Calvin baptized infants

That's because they were servants of satan.

The New Testament does not teach infant baptism and there are no examples of the Apostles doing any infant baptisms.

This is because the Lord is not leading anybody to do infant baptism

It's too bad that people have made idols out of Luther and Calvin

You can tell who the idolators are when they get mad at you for mocking Luther and Calvin who deserve to be mocked seeing they are scripture twisters and tares among wheat

 

[Johann]

Typo - it's Rev. 5:8.
Refute that, Einstein . . .

Already did--two steps ahead of you.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

His reputation is well known on this forum…

Don’t feel “special” he bullies “everyone”!!


God Bless you,
Taken

I think it's terrible for the church he's supposed to be representing....
but you speak the truth!
He's even made up a new definition of the word LIE.
Interesting stuff.
I won't be carrying on conversations with those that don't know HOW to converse.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

That's because they were servants of satan.

The New Testament does not teach infant baptism and there are no examples of the Apostles doing any infant baptisms.

This is because the Lord is not leading anybody to do infant baptism

It's too bad that people have made idols out of Luther and Calvin View attachment 47770

You can tell who the idolators are when they get mad at you for mocking Luther and Calvin who deserve to be mocked seeing they are scripture twisters and tares among wheat

I can tell an anti-Protestant know-it-all who rejects the Nicene Creed, and claims to be a Christian. Quasi-Christian or pseudo-Christian, perhaps. Before putting you on ignore, I'll wait and watch you make a complete fool of yourself. You don't want to discuss anything or ask sincere questions or seek the truth, you are looking for a fight.

Infant Baptism - Scripture Catholic

Catholics, much like most of the “mainline” Protestant denominations – Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists and other Reformed denominations, such as the Moravian Church -, baptize their infants. This is a tradition that was established by the first Christians...

www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[Johann]

That's because they were servants of satan.

So YOU say, flippantly and blatantly--how sure are you that you are saved?

 

[GodsGrace]

Bigot? that's the best you got? You funny.

I suppose catholic slanders doesn't have ready made copy and paste response that is sufficiently long enough to bore the daylights of the reader so bigot is what I am.
The reason I use the terms Romish, or Romanist, or Papalist is because Rome is not catholic and has not been for centuries. So if I use the term catholic to refer to the papalist/romish church you can bet it was a mistake.

What do you mean by your statement that Rome is not Catholic?

 

[GodsGrace]

I can tell an anti-Protestant know-it-all who rejects the Nicene Creed, and claims to be a Christian. Quasi-Christian or pseudo-Christian, perhaps. Before putting you on ignore, I'll wait and watch you make a complete fool of yourself. You don't want to discuss anything or ask sincere questions or seek the truth, you are looking for a fight.

Infant Baptism - Scripture Catholic

Catholics, much like most of the “mainline” Protestant denominations – Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists and other Reformed denominations, such as the Moravian Church -, baptize their infants. This is a tradition that was established by the first Christians...

www.scripturecatholic.com

WHO would want to ask anything of YOU or learn anything from YOU??

You certainly are not the person to attract persons to the Catholic faith.

And WHO here is looking for a fight?
Look in the mirror.