Jesus often asked people questions, not to catch them out or make them look foolish, but to show them where they were at so that he could help them. In the same spirit I ask the above . . .Please put what you think, without reading other answers.Then say how confident you are that you are right (as a %)Then say when you believe the disciples were born again.
What IS the born again experience?
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I believe that when we realize(by hearing) our hopeless situation, by the convicting of the Holy Spirit....We realize what Christ work at the cross paid for and freely offers it to us....by repentance(turning from our sins) and faith we accept this free gift-salvation(birth)....we are then born with the nature of God-reconciled to the father. This is where I believe our Journey begins!95% sure!This is a question that I still am struggling over. I believe that the disciples were born of the Spirit the day of Pentecost. This is when the Spirit was given after Christ died. My confusion with this is...when Jesus breathed on them and said recieve ye the Holy Ghost, what did they recieve?
(setfree;55128)
I believe that when we realize(by hearing) our hopeless situation, by the convicting of the Holy Spirit....We realize what Christ work at the cross paid for and freely offers it to us....by repentance(turning from our sins) and faith we accept this free gift-salvation(birth)....we are then born with the nature of God-reconciled to the father. This is where I believe our Journey begins!95% sure!This is a question that I still am struggling over. I believe that the disciples were born of the Spirit the day of Pentecost. This is when the Spirit was given after Christ died. My confusion with this is...when Jesus breathed on them and said recieve ye the Holy Ghost, what did they recieve?
SetfreeI dont know if you already read this but I'll copy and paste it here, but heres a couple Bible Comentarys on that very question.Bible commentary 1He said, Receive ye the Holy Ghost, thus showing that their spiritual life, as well as all their ability for their work, would be derived from him, and depended upon him. Every word of Christ which is received in the heart by faith, comes accompanied by this Divine breathing; and without this there is neither light nor life. Nothing is seen, known, discerned, or felt of God, but through this. After this, Christ directed the apostles to declare the only method by which sin would be forgiven. This power did not exist at all in the apostles as a power to give judgment, but only as a power to declare the character of those whom God would accept or reject in the day of judgment. They have clearly laid down the marks whereby a child of God may be discerned and be distinguished from a false professor; and according to what they have declared shall every case be decided in the day of judgment. When we assemble in Christ's name, especially on his holy day, he will meet with us, and speak peace to us. The disciples of Christ should endeavour to build up one another in their most holy faith, both by repeating what they have heard to those that were absent, and by making known what they have experienced. Thomas limited the Holy One of Israel, when he would be convinced by his own method or not at all. He might justly have been left in his unbelief, after rejecting such abundant proofs. The fears and sorrows of the disciples are often lengthened, to punish their negligence.http://www.christnotes.org/commentar...3&c=20&com=mhcCommentary 2Joh 20Verse 23. Whose soever sins ye remit] See the notes on Matt. xvi. 19; xviii. 18. It is certain God alone can forgive sins; and it would not only be blasphemous, but grossly absurd, to say that any creature could remit the guilt of a transgression which had been committed against the Creator. The apostles received from the Lord the doctrine of reconciliation, and the doctrine of condemnation. They who believed on the Son of God, in consequence of their preaching, had their sins remitted; and they who would not believe were declared to lie under condemnation. The reader is desired to consult the note referred to above, where the custom to which our Lord alludes is particularly considered. Dr. Lightfoot supposes that the power of life and death, and the power of delivering over to Satan, which was granted to the apostles, is here referred to. This was a power which the primitive apostles exclusively possessed. http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkejoh20.htm...........Remember here that Christ breathed directly on them this has never happened sense and is reminest of God breathing into Adam There is no Biblical evidence that this was a gift given to any others and in fact it goes against all scripture teaches.Heres a sermon on this if your interestedhttp://www.all-creatures.org/sermons97/s10apr94.html
I believe that when we realize(by hearing) our hopeless situation, by the convicting of the Holy Spirit....We realize what Christ work at the cross paid for and freely offers it to us....by repentance(turning from our sins) and faith we accept this free gift-salvation(birth)....we are then born with the nature of God-reconciled to the father. This is where I believe our Journey begins!95% sure!This is a question that I still am struggling over. I believe that the disciples were born of the Spirit the day of Pentecost. This is when the Spirit was given after Christ died. My confusion with this is...when Jesus breathed on them and said recieve ye the Holy Ghost, what did they recieve?
SetfreeI dont know if you already read this but I'll copy and paste it here, but heres a couple Bible Comentarys on that very question.Bible commentary 1He said, Receive ye the Holy Ghost, thus showing that their spiritual life, as well as all their ability for their work, would be derived from him, and depended upon him. Every word of Christ which is received in the heart by faith, comes accompanied by this Divine breathing; and without this there is neither light nor life. Nothing is seen, known, discerned, or felt of God, but through this. After this, Christ directed the apostles to declare the only method by which sin would be forgiven. This power did not exist at all in the apostles as a power to give judgment, but only as a power to declare the character of those whom God would accept or reject in the day of judgment. They have clearly laid down the marks whereby a child of God may be discerned and be distinguished from a false professor; and according to what they have declared shall every case be decided in the day of judgment. When we assemble in Christ's name, especially on his holy day, he will meet with us, and speak peace to us. The disciples of Christ should endeavour to build up one another in their most holy faith, both by repeating what they have heard to those that were absent, and by making known what they have experienced. Thomas limited the Holy One of Israel, when he would be convinced by his own method or not at all. He might justly have been left in his unbelief, after rejecting such abundant proofs. The fears and sorrows of the disciples are often lengthened, to punish their negligence.http://www.christnotes.org/commentar...3&c=20&com=mhcCommentary 2Joh 20Verse 23. Whose soever sins ye remit] See the notes on Matt. xvi. 19; xviii. 18. It is certain God alone can forgive sins; and it would not only be blasphemous, but grossly absurd, to say that any creature could remit the guilt of a transgression which had been committed against the Creator. The apostles received from the Lord the doctrine of reconciliation, and the doctrine of condemnation. They who believed on the Son of God, in consequence of their preaching, had their sins remitted; and they who would not believe were declared to lie under condemnation. The reader is desired to consult the note referred to above, where the custom to which our Lord alludes is particularly considered. Dr. Lightfoot supposes that the power of life and death, and the power of delivering over to Satan, which was granted to the apostles, is here referred to. This was a power which the primitive apostles exclusively possessed. http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkejoh20.htm...........Remember here that Christ breathed directly on them this has never happened sense and is reminest of God breathing into Adam There is no Biblical evidence that this was a gift given to any others and in fact it goes against all scripture teaches.Heres a sermon on this if your interestedhttp://www.all-creatures.org/sermons97/s10apr94.html
The Spirit wasn't given until Jesus had returned to the Father, "glorified" (John 7:39, 15:26, 16:7).In John 20:17 Jesus says:-Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my FatherSo while he certainly commands them to receive the Spirit in v22, and the breathing on them is prophetic of the "wind" in Acts 2, I cannot see how they could have received Him then.And if they did receive Him them, there must be a difference between receiving the Spirit and recieving the promise of the Spirit, which they received in Acts 2!Does anyone here believe this?Peter refers to Acts 2 as "the beginning" in Acts 11:15. Then when Thomas later appears in John 20 the disciples make no mention of receiving the Spirit!For these and other reasons I believe that the baptism in the Spirit, speaking in tongues = the born again experience.People certainly can and do have experiences of Jesus Christ before they are born again .. "draw near to God and he will draw near to you".Like disciples on the road to Emmaeus, "did not our hearts burn within us", or the Samarians in Acts 8:12-16 - they started believing and there was great joy in that city. Yet in both those cases the people needed to go on to actually receive the Spirit.In John 3:8 Jesus saysThe wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell whence it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.I believe that that is a reference to the speaking in tongues as the spirit gave them all utterance in Acts.
John 3:5-7,18Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
We must be born again. The experience is simply by way of believing on the One who has done ALL THE WORK for us. By simply trusting in His righteousness, we have eternal life.When I was born of water... I was conceived by my parents, and "born" in my mother's womb. That which is born of flesh, is flesh... This eventually came to fruition when I was expelled from my mother's womb, through traditional and the "normal" method. Others, however, have been expelled from their mother's womb via a "C-Section" because of physiological issues that required a special way of delivery. Some are birthed from the womb by struggle... others are birthed from the womb with great ease. I have known of some women who have been in labor for barely and hour... where some go almost a full day.Jude 1:22-23: And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Though the experience is different, there are underlying similarities that must be true. There must be a sperm, and there must be an egg. The DNA (via sperm) of my father must have entered the egg of my mother. Today this can even be done by more methods still... using mechanical man-made instruments, and methods of fertilization which are not exactly "natural" to us. Nevertheless, there is an underlying principal that must be true for any of this to take place. The sperm must enter the egg.I believe God Works in mysterious ways and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9; Psalm 77:13-14).Our experience is different in our fleshly birth... and our experience is different in our spiritual birth. Think of the great lengths, methods, and efforts that we go through in order to conceive, and to birth our children? How much more must God strive with men, in order to see them birthed spiritually... through His Son, who did not come to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him... and He died for us. Amazing.There is one, unique, and necessary underlying principal. We must believe on His Son. This is the "sperm and the egg" of the spiritual realm. Then and only then are we born again--when we believe on the One Whom our Father sent... Jesus Christ, His Son, Who died for our sins and the sins of the whole world.Our experience in this may be different... the method (perhaps by compassion, perhaps by fire) may be different... but the result is the same, and this variable can never change. We must believe on His Son. What does that look like for you? It may not look the same as it did for me. Nevertheless, I know I am born again because I have believed on Him Whom our Father sent--Jesus Christ. This is how I know I am born again.There are no works that I can point to. And, though I could point to changes in my life... and experiences that God has given me... none of them may be the same to what God has given you. The method may have slightly differed... the environment may have been totally changed... but if we have believed on God's Son, we have been born again... and we are saved. Something powerful and mysterious happens when this occurs, and only God knows, truly.I do not believe being born again is not as much about the "experience" as it really is about the actual, true, spiritually-tangible facts of what it is to be saved (aka, born again). It can be our tendency (it has been mine) to point to our "experience," and say, "See, I was born again. It happened like this, and this, and this..." That is good, because it shows how God worked in our life, specifically. It is encouraging, inspiring, and edifying to talk about just *how* God did it. However, when we get down the nitty-gritty facts, we will see that our experience is different... but the one variable must remain the same. It is the One Variable that we all share, and does not change. It all comes back to faith, rather than experience, in God's Son, Jesus, the Christ. Being born again means to believe on Jesus Christ, who died for our sins. All who do will inherit eternal life. I am 100% sure.Treeoflife....wow! that was great! I needed the light you shed on Jude...I never quite understood that verse.
(setfree;55206)
Treeoflife....wow! that was great! I needed the light you shed on Jude...I never quite understood that verse.
Alright! Praise the Lord that this feable vessel can be made useful from time to time, by His mercy.
I have heard the saying that, "Those saved by fear must learn compassion. Those saved by compassion must learn fear."I find this to be so true. Those who are saved by knowing best the mercy of God, must learn that God is to be feared... and reveared. Those who are saved by knowing best the fear of God must learn that God is merciful, and gracious. Our God is great, and He is right in everything He does, for every specific situation
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Treeoflife....wow! that was great! I needed the light you shed on Jude...I never quite understood that verse.
Alright! Praise the Lord that this feable vessel can be made useful from time to time, by His mercy.
Wonderful message, specially in these times of great uncertainity. The message that every christian following Christ must proclaim to all today. Oh! I pray that all would visit this message my brother. Thank You
(TallMan;55100)
Jesus often asked people questions, not to catch them out or make them look foolish, but to show them where they were at so that he could help them. In the same spirit I ask the above . . .Please put what you think, without reading other answers.Then say how confident you are that you are right (as a %)Then say when you believe the disciples were born again.
Tallman, Very few understand what Born Again means. Please consider the scriptures I will cite or quote. Cogitate on them, Please pray to be able to understand the truth, even when not what you are accostomed to hearing. The ones Born Again are what Jesus called a Little Flock, Luke 12:32. The Bible tells us about these ones in many places, but are called by other names. The ones Born Again are Born, not from flesh and blood, but from God, John 1:11-13. These would become a New Creation, not flesh and blood, but spirit creations, just as Jesus, 1Pet 3:18, John 3:5-8, 2Cor 5:16,17, Gal 6:15. These are also Anointed as Jesus was, Acts 4:26,27, 2Cor 1:21, 1John 2:20,27. They are also called Conqurerers, Rev 2:17,26,27, 3:5. These are also SEALED, 2Cor 1:22, Rev 7:3,4. They are also to be Kings and Priests, Rev 5:9,10, 20:4-6, 1Cor 4:8, 2Tim 2:12. They will also be resurrected spirit creatures with Immortal life, 1Cor 15:51-54. I could put down more scriptures but this should be enough if you really meditate on these scriptures, 1Thes 5:21, Rom 12:2, 2Pet 3:15-17.
Jesus often asked people questions, not to catch them out or make them look foolish, but to show them where they were at so that he could help them. In the same spirit I ask the above . . .Please put what you think, without reading other answers.Then say how confident you are that you are right (as a %)Then say when you believe the disciples were born again.
Tallman, Very few understand what Born Again means. Please consider the scriptures I will cite or quote. Cogitate on them, Please pray to be able to understand the truth, even when not what you are accostomed to hearing. The ones Born Again are what Jesus called a Little Flock, Luke 12:32. The Bible tells us about these ones in many places, but are called by other names. The ones Born Again are Born, not from flesh and blood, but from God, John 1:11-13. These would become a New Creation, not flesh and blood, but spirit creations, just as Jesus, 1Pet 3:18, John 3:5-8, 2Cor 5:16,17, Gal 6:15. These are also Anointed as Jesus was, Acts 4:26,27, 2Cor 1:21, 1John 2:20,27. They are also called Conqurerers, Rev 2:17,26,27, 3:5. These are also SEALED, 2Cor 1:22, Rev 7:3,4. They are also to be Kings and Priests, Rev 5:9,10, 20:4-6, 1Cor 4:8, 2Tim 2:12. They will also be resurrected spirit creatures with Immortal life, 1Cor 15:51-54. I could put down more scriptures but this should be enough if you really meditate on these scriptures, 1Thes 5:21, Rom 12:2, 2Pet 3:15-17.
verzanumi24
Advanced Member
(TallMan;55100)
Jesus often asked people questions, not to catch them out or make them look foolish, but to show them where they were at so that he could help them. In the same spirit I ask the above . . .Please put what you think, without reading other answers.Then say how confident you are that you are right (as a %)Then say when you believe the disciples were born again.
The disciples were born again when they received the Holy Spirit, which took place after Jesus was resurrected from the dead, and I am 100% sure about that.
Jesus often asked people questions, not to catch them out or make them look foolish, but to show them where they were at so that he could help them. In the same spirit I ask the above . . .Please put what you think, without reading other answers.Then say how confident you are that you are right (as a %)Then say when you believe the disciples were born again.
The disciples were born again when they received the Holy Spirit, which took place after Jesus was resurrected from the dead, and I am 100% sure about that.
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