What is "OSAS"?

[Marymog]

Why are you so focused on men, Mary?




Grace and peace to you.

Because Scripture tells us Christians to: Hebrews 13:17, 1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 20:28, Hebrews 13:17

Bible facts that destroys your opinion....You should read all of it sometime.

 

[Marymog]

I see things here and there in many Christians ~ women and children included, past and present ~ worthy of remembrance and even emulation.


Yeah again, I doubt it. :)

Grace and peace to you.

Soooo you can't answer a question based on a command from Scripture? Let's try this again:

What man in your life do you trust to fulfil Hebrews 13:7?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hey PinSeeker,

It is fascinating that you believe that Luther brought back to Christianity the "right" beliefs. Which ones where they? Do you agree with EVERYTHING Luther brought back?

Curious Mary

Look at the Lutheran Church now, it has changed it's spots from when Luther was peddling such and then from when i was going to the Lutheran Church to now sure have changed they spots in the last 10 years to become even more of a joke. It's Sick and it has not Christ Jesus at all !

Sadly such has become of the RCC as well to become just outright Sick under Pope Frances. It became like a Socialist inspired by the Main stream Media gods. What an outright total moron was our RCC Priest, totally useless good for nothing ! you may as well had a Unionist preaching puffing up the pride of Man. It was his Job that's what he called it ! I over heard him saying such dribble and said to him, it's not a Job, it's a Vocation ! Their is a huge difference in fact !

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Christ said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Your theory is that it has..........

In this regards they RCC has changed it's spots in fact !

As to regards the Church ? The Church is the Body of Christ ! that being the case, regards all who are within Christ Jesus are The Church !
One must be truly born again to become the body of Christ Jesus in fact.

I believe that the RCC has always been corrupt as with every Church the rot is within ? Pope Paul said so of the RCC and other Popes as well said in regards such.
I believe that the worst thing that the RCC did after WW2 was create Vatican 2 ? I was once all for Vatican 2 thinking that it was progressive and moving along with the times, but what happened was it lost sight of Christ Jesus and came into the World seeking power within this world a Religion ? Not a Christ Jesus inspired body of Christ Jesus foundation, it took the religion first and abandoned Christ Jesus as the years progressed moving more and more away from Christ Jesus in fact.

Now we see so called Christian churches supporting Islam insanity ! not to mention stupid Jews who totally hate Christ Jesus in fact openly saying such with threats to destroy all such. They turn the Church up side down, so it supports such idiots as them Godless Satanic trash.
Look what Islam has done all over the world in the last 50 years, just in killing Christians but the MSM work to dull all such down in fact, so as to lead the world astray in fact about the reality and now this the MSM is attacking the Jews in the State ! It was they Islamic who brought it all on in fact but when the bombs came back at them from the Jews who have every right to do so ! the Media scream not fair ! come on the MSM is corrupt as Hell ! It is they who are leading the world into the Hellfire that is to come, for they fan the flames of all such !

Remember Band Aid ! They gave all the money to who ? so they could kill who ? as the MSM covered it all up and the majorty of people in the West were clueless about it all, typical ! but i knew what was going to happen with the money as did many people i knew, because they were thinking people ! who ran business, so they had the brain power to work such things out. and not be just dill pickles but the MSM said such was not the issue for they divert such issues as irrelevant and kick anyone around so as to shut up ! like typical Socialist do in fact ! Just like the Nazis did in fact.

 

[Marymog]

In this regards they RCC has changed it's spots in fact !

As to regards the Church ? The Church is the Body of Christ ! that being the case, regards all who are within Christ Jesus are The Church !
One must be truly born again to become the body of Christ Jesus in fact.

Hello Reggie,

Thanks for your input. I agree with you that Christ is the Church. BUT I disagree with you that all members of that church are "The Church".

Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). How can each individual 2+ billion Christians be the pillar and foundation of truth when we all have our own 'truths'?

Also, Scripture says that when our brother sins against us we are to take our differences to them. If they don't listen to me or the 2 witnesses I brought with me we are to take our differences to the Church. If they don't listen to the church they are to be kicked out of the church. That passage (Matthew 18:17) doesn't say that I or the 2 witnesses are the church and that WE can kick them out of The Church. That passage clearly indicates that there is a governing body that decides who can be in The Church and who can't based on what they wrongly believe. How does your theory that all Christians are The Church fit in with Matthew 18:17?

Thank you in advance.........Mary

 

[Marymog]

I believe that the RCC has always been corrupt as with every Church the rot is within ? Pope Paul said so of the RCC and other Popes as well said in regards such.
I believe that the worst thing that the RCC did after WW2 was create Vatican 2 ? I was once all for Vatican 2 thinking that it was progressive and moving along with the times, but what happened was it lost sight of Christ Jesus and came into the World seeking power within this world a Religion ? Not a Christ Jesus inspired body of Christ Jesus foundation, it took the religion first and abandoned Christ Jesus as the years progressed moving more and more away from Christ Jesus in fact.

Now we see so called Christian churches supporting Islam insanity ! not to mention stupid Jews who totally hate Christ Jesus in fact openly saying such with threats to destroy all such. They turn the Church up side down, so it supports such idiots as them Godless Satanic trash.
Look what Islam has done all over the world in the last 50 years, just in killing Christians but the MSM work to dull all such down in fact, so as to lead the world astray in fact about the reality and now this the MSM is attacking the Jews in the State ! It was they Islamic who brought it all on in fact but when the bombs came back at them from the Jews who have every right to do so ! the Media scream not fair ! come on the MSM is corrupt as Hell ! It is they who are leading the world into the Hellfire that is to come, for they fan the flames of all such !

Remember Band Aid ! They gave all the money to who ? so they could kill who ? as the MSM covered it all up and the majorty of people in the West were clueless about it all, typical ! but i knew what was going to happen with the money as did many people i knew, because they were thinking people ! who ran business, so they had the brain power to work such things out. and not be just dill pickles but the MSM said such was not the issue for they divert such issues as irrelevant and kick anyone around so as to shut up ! like typical Socialist do in fact ! Just like the Nazis did in fact.

Hey Reggie,

You asked 'remember Band Aid' and where the money went. Yes, I do remember Band Aid but I didn't know there was a scandel involving the money so I did some research.

At one time the BBC alleged that the money went to buy weapons for rebels. They then retracted that accusation saying it was based on false information. Is that what you are alluding to?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Look at the Lutheran Church now, it has changed it's spots from when Luther was peddling such and then from when i was going to the Lutheran Church to now sure have changed they spots in the last 10 years to become even more of a joke. It's Sick and it has not Christ Jesus at all !

Sadly such has become of the RCC as well to become just outright Sick under Pope Frances. It became like a Socialist inspired by the Main stream Media gods. What an outright total moron was our RCC Priest, totally useless good for nothing ! you may as well had a Unionist preaching puffing up the pride of Man. It was his Job that's what he called it ! I over heard him saying such dribble and said to him, it's not a Job, it's a Vocation ! Their is a huge difference in fact !

All of Christianity is in disarray..........

 

[Marymog]

See above and below. I guess I would answer this "question" by saying each of them made great contributions.

Hello PinSeeker,

Huh???? Each Reformer made great contributions to bringing Christianity closer to the teachings of the Apostles by throwing out Catholic doctrine and making their own doctrine??

Some Reformers kept Church doctrine XYZ as doctrine for their new denomination and some Reformers rejected Church doctrine XYZ. How do YOU determine which Reformer made a "great contribution" to getting Christianity closer to the teachings of the Apostles? The Reformer that kept doctrine XYZ or the Reformer who rejected XYZ?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I love it when someone makes a statement that you listen to your men

When they in the base root of their doctrine. state they listen to their men and their men only and blindly follow them..

Hey EG.......It is not doctrine that says that we are to listen to our men (men of The Church). It is Scripture that says that. Would you like to discuss and do some bible study with me?

Also, why is ok for you to adhere to your men's interpretation of Scripture but it is not ok for me to listen to my men's interpretation of Scripture?

I have a feeling you are not going to answer me but my fingers are crossed.....

 

[PinSeeker]

Christ said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

And you think He was talking about the Roman Catholic Church...

Your theory is that it has..........

LOL! Nope...

Thanks for your opinion but, Nope not a over generalization. The FACT is that "they all disagreed with each other AND The Church". That is why they all started their own denominations with their own doctrines and their own truths.

That "good" old Catholic narrative again...

Christ said that the gates of hell will NOT prevail against the church. Therefore The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, WILL NOT fail.

The true Christian church of all times and all places, yes. Christ's Church.

Because Scripture tells us Christians to: Hebrews 13:17, 1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 20:28, Hebrews 13:17

The Bible doesn't ever tell us that women have nothing to offer (or cannot serve) or that we should only listen to men. It does, however, say ~ Paul, specifically, says ~ that women are not to preach or teach men in a worship/church setting. The church I attend does not have female preachers, and women are only in teaching capacities only in settings where only other women and/or children are present in learning capacities. With regard to elders (and deacons), they are church officers, and yes, only men are eligible; my church has elders and deacons... all men. But there are places for women to serve and serve well within the church, and they have much to offer; God gives spiritual gifts (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12), including prophecy and teaching and knowledge and wisdom, to men and women alike, and all these gifts are empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He wills, for the common good.

Bible facts that destroys your opinion....You should read all of it sometime.

So I shouldn't be listening to or conversing with you, Mary, since you are presumably a woman. Right?

Soooo you can't answer a question based on a command from Scripture? Let's try this again:

What man in your life do you trust to fulfil Hebrews 13:7?

LOL! See above. I have been discipled for periods of time, and currently do have a couple of Christian mentors. And... they are men. But I value input from women also, and sometimes very highly, especially in the case of the wife God has given me.

Huh???? Each Reformer made great contributions to bringing Christianity closer to the teachings of the Apostles by throwing out Catholic doctrine and making their own doctrine??

Ah, you're putting words in my mouth. I always react negatively to that... :) And that means this is a good time to stop. :)

Maybe a good final comment for me to make is this. We would all agree that idolatry is... bad. :) There's a reason why the first of the Ten Commandments is the first. I've heard it said (and think it very true) that no sin of any kind can possibly be committed without first having broken the first Commandment (and probably the second, also). And the fact is, we can idolize anything, even our church... in your case, the "Church." :) Something to thoughtfully consider, I think.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Marymog]

And you think He was talking about the Roman Catholic Church.

And you think He was talking about ____________________.

 

[rwb]

And you think He was talking about ____________________.

He was talking about the Church that consists only of those who have been born again of the Spirit of Christ. How could He be talking about the Church that exists on this earth? The Church as She is in this world is not pure, but polluted with tares, wolves in sheep's clothing, liars, deceivers, false prophets, false teachers, false doctrine etc. etc. ectc. This is the condition of EVERY denomination called Church in this world now. But the gates of hell shall not prevail, because Christ shall build HIS CHURCH, and Satan with his minions shall not prevent it! It is THAT CHURCH that Christ shall present to Himself, a glorious Church, without spot or wrinkle but holy and without blemish.

Ephesians 5:24 (KJV) Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Ephesians 5:26-27 (KJV) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

This will not be until Christ comes again and sends His angels to gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity. Then shall the righteous shine forth in the Kingdom of their Father.

Matthew 13:41-43 (KJV) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[PinSeeker]

And you think He was talking about ____________________.

You know, I was going to reply, but it can't be answered better that RWB just did above. I actually did, previously, though, when I said, "(t)he true Christian church of all times and all places... Christ's Church."

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

 

[Marymog]

He was talking about the Church that consists only of those who have been born again of the Spirit of Christ. How could He be talking about the Church that exists on this earth?

Thanks for that interpretation of Scripture RWB. Is that your interpretation or did another man teach you that?

It seems that @PinSeeker agrees with you so I look forward to both of your response to my further inquiries.

You (RWB) asked me how He could be talking about the Church that exists on earth. Scripture answers that question in Matthew 18:17. There clearly has to be a church on earth for us to go to so that they (The Church) can settle our differences and decide, with authority, who is to be kicked out of the church (treat them as a pagan/tax collector). True OR not true?

Scripture says that we are to obey are elders and submit to them (Hebrews 13:17). If there is no church that exists on earth, where do we go to find these elders that we are to submit to?

Where does the elder (of which the Holy Ghost made an overseer) that looks over his flock go to meet their flock (Acts 20:28)?

I have other questions that are backed up by Scripture but let's just start with the simple ones.

Looking forward to your thoughts.......Mary

 

[Marymog]

You know, I was going to reply, but it can't be answered better that RWB just did above. I actually did, previously, though, when I said, "(t)he true Christian church of all times and all places... Christ's Church."

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

PinSeeker......what PLACE is that which we go to so that we can fulfil Matthew 18:17?

 

[Marymog]

So I shouldn't be listening to or conversing with you, Mary, since you are presumably a woman. Right?



Grace and peace to you.

I am not preaching or teaching. I am only repeating...........

 

[Marymog]

LOL! See above. I have been discipled for periods of time, and currently do have a couple of Christian mentors. And... they are men. But I value input from women also, and sometimes very highly, especially in the case of the wife God has given me.



Grace and peace to you.

So you do have a place/persons to go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:17! Soooooo The Church IS a place consisting of people you call mentors!!! Do your mentors fulfill what Scripture calls elders that we are to obey? Or are your elders a different group of men?

Curious mary

 

[Marymog]

Ah, you're putting words in my mouth. I always react negatively to that... :) And that means this is a good time to stop. :)



Grace and peace to you.

Nope, not putting words in your mouth PinSeeker. You said each of them (the reformers) made great contributions to bringing Christians back to the teaching of the Apostles. That means that they, the Reformers, threw out some Church teachings AND came up with their own teachings/doctrines that brought Christianity back to the original teachings of which you think The Church veered from.

If you didn't mean that...Please clarify so I better understand what you are trying to say.

Mary

 

[PinSeeker]

PinSeeker......what PLACE is that which we go to so that we can fulfil Matthew 18:17?

The church where you are a member ~ which would presumably have some sort of structure and polity and therefore be able to mediate such matters as appropriate.

I am not preaching or teaching.

I... didn't say you were.

So you do have a place/persons to go to so that you can fulfil Matthew 18:17!

Sure. And these persons do not have to be elders or deacons.

The Church IS a place consisting of people you call mentors!!!

Sure. I didn't say otherwise, nor would I. Other Christians, who, as I said, don't have to be elders or deacons.

Do your mentors fulfill what Scripture calls elders that we are to obey?

Hopefully so, yes. In our church, there is certainly a thorough and intentional vetting process that takes place prior to anyone being called and ordained as an elder/deacon. And personally, hopefully there is a personal vetting process that one prayerfully conducts in choosing mentors for oneself; this was certainly true for me).

Nope, not putting words in your mouth PinSeeker.

Maybe you didn't think you were ~ or intend to do so ~ but you did.

You said each of them (the reformers) made great contributions to bringing Christians back to the teaching of the Apostles.

Yes.

That means that they, the Reformers, threw out some Church teachings AND came up with their own teachings/doctrines...

No, not necessarily; that was your addition, which you attributed to me as my inevitable conclusion. Ergo... putting words in my mouth.

...so I better understand what you are trying to say..

Hmmm... :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rwb]

Thanks for that interpretation of Scripture RWB. Is that your interpretation or did another man teach you that?

It seems that @PinSeeker agrees with you so I look forward to both of your response to my further inquiries.

You (RWB) asked me how He could be talking about the Church that exists on earth. Scripture answers that question in Matthew 18:17. There clearly has to be a church on earth for us to go to so that they (The Church) can settle our differences and decide, with authority, who is to be kicked out of the church (treat them as a pagan/tax collector). True OR not true?

Scripture says that we are to obey are elders and submit to them (Hebrews 13:17). If there is no church that exists on earth, where do we go to find these elders that we are to submit to?

Where does the elder (of which the Holy Ghost made an overseer) that looks over his flock go to meet their flock (Acts 20:28)?

I have other questions that are backed up by Scripture but let's just start with the simple ones.

Looking forward to your thoughts.......Mary

I've learned only a fool follows the doctrine of man. So let me turn the question on you, from whom does your understanding of Scripture come from? What man/denomination has taught you?

Mt 18:17 is confirmation that within the Church on earth there are both believers and unbelievers growing together, and that will not change until Christ comes again. Christ gives the Church some apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the SAINTS, not unbelievers who are among believers in our very midst. We, the saints of Christ are called to come to unity of faith and doctrine through those He gives authority to. In this world, the Church NOW will never be unified in faith and doctrine because the weeds, that shall be plucked out, are always with the saints to drive a wedge and division among us.

Yes, we are called to submit to those who have authority over us. Authority that Christ gave His Church on earth before He ascended to heaven. This has been a major cause of contention within the body of Christ, called Church. Many have taken these positions of authority who are among believers, but who are themselves in unbelief. Perhaps through deception or maybe they choose to deceive the saints. That's why it's important to choose wisely, because there will come a time when the man of sin will set himself up in our midst to be worshipped as God. We've been warned!

Ephesians 4:11-12 (KJV) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?