What is "OSAS"?

[amigo de christo]

Oh goodness PinSeeker.......You have a horrible theory and revision of the truth (history).

The Reformers did not return to Christianity in the days of the Apostles. They all disagreed with The Church on doctrine. They thought they could interpret Scripture better than the men of The Church. They broke away from The Church and created their own doctrines; their own salvafic truths. Some of their doctrines agreed with Church doctrine and some of it didn't. The TRUTH is they all disagreed with each other AND The Church sooooo your revision of history (that they were trying to return to the days of the Apostles) makes ZERO sense.

If your theory was true which of the Reformers came the closest to returning to the days of the Apostles?

Keeping it real....Mary

You mean to say A LOT of the reformers did not truly return to the original pattern . I mean
some of them were as bad as the popes themselves . Men do as men do and men have always loved
to have pre eminence . lambs wont sit under such men . none should .
But some did return to the original pattern left to us in that bible . and believe me both the RCC and a lot of the protestant
realm BOTH persecuted these . These had persecutions from BOTH sides .
The sheep hear the voice of the Great shepard of the sheep and sheep will heed men
who follow HIM , testing always all things all men do teach n say and correcting error within .
But what a lamb wont do is , if leaders or etc wont repent and hear but rather double down on their falsehoods
They wont SIT UNDER SUCH . they will part ways and join with other like minded brethren
whose desire is GOD GET THE GLORY , THE PRE EMINENCE and not rather man .
It will be truly an ice cold day in the lake of fire , figuratively speaking , before this lamb
will call any man reverand , let alone MOST HOLY REVERAND or MOST HOLY FATHER .
PRIDE . PRIDE has filled them to the full and through the years they continued to change and to twist
doctrine to suit their own carnal hearts desires for the lust , power and control . SIT UNDER NO SUCH PLACE .

 

[Marymog]

Mary ~



Further it is … sad; For you, that does not apply to you.
:-(

Quote from YOU: the ENTIRE BIBLE does not apply to me. When you ask me, how I would respond to something that does not apply to me…

 

[Marymog]

@Marymog

A) Some ARE sanctified…already accomplishED.
(OSAS)

B) Some are NOT sanctified.

C) Some hope they SHALL be sanctified.

D)Some shall NEVER be sanctified.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I am in the (A) category.
How about you Mary? By your comments Against those who ARE sanctified…appears your standing is in the B, C, or D category.

Thank you for your opinion..........

 

[Marymog]

aww so your a water baptism salvation believer... you just left the without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins . thank you for making my remarks say something i never posted . BTW our works follows salvation not precedes

Yes Ezra, us Christians are water baptism salvation believers: 1 Peter 3:21.

Yes, I did leave out without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins: Romans 5:9 and Hebrews 9:22. I also said, "Scripture says A LOT more on what one must do to obtain eternal life." There are more....Do you know what they are?

To be saved your works SHOULD follow salvation (belief) since one has to believe FIRST, works then follow. Not all who first believe do the works. They then lose their salvation because faith without works is dead.

 

[Marymog]

LOL! So the Catholic narrative goes... "Started an entire new teaching of salvific beliefs..." Wow.

We will agree, for sure, that the Reformers wanted to change a lot of non-Biblical teachings/understandings that were (and still are; there is nothing new under the sun) out there. But again, back to what they really are/should be, Biblically speaking. This was really the one overarching purpose of the Reformers ~ to re-form ~ bring back correct understanding and belief in God's holy, incorruptible, infallible, true Word. But the only One Who will finally do that is God Himself, through the work of His Spirit.

Yes, Satan is at work, for sure. But God is sovereign over it all, and His promises are all true; all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus. Thanks be to God, "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the Word of the Lord remains forever."

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

hey PinSeeker,

It is not the "Catholic narrative". It is a historical FACT that the Reformers taught a different salvific teaching other than what The Church taught. That is one of the reasons WHY they left The Church; Because they disagreed with The Church on the interpretation of Scripture in regard to how one obtains salvation. That is a historical FACT!!

According to YOU and the Reformers The Church had non-biblical teachings. If your theory were true and the Reformers, according to them being guided by the Holy Spirit, got back to biblical teachings, then all the Reformers would have taught the same thing and had the same doctrines. They would have all agreed with each other. They didn't!!! You do know that, don't you? Can you see how your theory makes no sense? The Holy Spirit did not give all of them different Truths to get "back to biblical teachings'.

If the Reformers were trying to "bring back correct understanding and belief in God's holy, incorruptible, infallible, true Word".....THEY FAILED! They all disagreed with the 2,000-year teaching of Christianity AND they all disagreed with each other AND you disagree with all of them sooooo in a sense YOU are a Reformer also. I mean after all, aren't YOU also trying to bring back correct understanding and belief in God's holy, incorruptible, infallible, true Word?

 

[Marymog]

You say that as if I don't... :)


Yes, wrong ones... :)


Yes, right ones... :)


Agreed. :)


Very ambiguous. :) Some of the specific issues that they addressed were different. If you think they disagreed on anything specific, then it would help if you identified those things, instead of making generalizations. Then a discussion could actually be possible. :) For the most part, though, Luther and Calvin and all those who came after ~ later Jonathan Edwards, Abraham Kuyper, and the like ~ thought very much along the same lines, and they all thought very much along the same lines as Augustine centuries before.


Agreed. :) Although only on certain things, of course. Very important things, of course, but only on certain things.


It was not; it was to return Christianity to what it was in the days of the apostles, to Scripture. If you really want to talk about what Martin Luther's impetus (impetuses) was (were), he offered the five Solas ("alones") of the Reformation: Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), Solus Christus (Christ alone), Sola Fide (faith alone), Sola Gratia (grace alone), and Sola Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

The five Solas

That was the purpose of the Reformers and the Reformation.


Not 'new' as in "never before taught"... :)


That he does. But not all; the Holy Spirit is at work. But one day ~ one great, magnificent Day... :)~ there will be no more deception. The schemes of Satan will all be permanently ended. :)

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

Hey PinSeeker,

It is fascinating that you believe that Luther brought back to Christianity the "right" beliefs. Which ones where they? Do you agree with EVERYTHING Luther brought back?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

That he (Satan) does. But not all; the Holy Spirit is at work. But one day ~ one great, magnificent Day... :)~ there will be no more deception. The schemes of Satan will all be permanently ended. :)

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

I agree. Satan is not deceiving all men. I believe he is not deceiving the men of The Church.

In your opinion (or according to your studies) who (or what group of men) is Satan not deceiving? What man in your life do you trust to fulfil Hebrews 13:7?

Curious Mary

 

[Taken]

Quote from YOU: the ENTIRE BIBLE does not apply to me. When you ask me, how I would respond to something that does not apply to me…

Correct.

What about you Mary…
Does the entire Bible APPLY TO YOU?

 

[Taken]

Thank you for your opinion..........

You can read in Scripture for yourself…
( Maybe you will conclude your opinion to be based on scriptural facts. )

Some SHALL be SAVED.
Some ARE SANCTIFIED.

 

[Marymog]

Correct.

What about you Mary…
Does the entire Bible APPLY TO YOU?

I don't know what man is deceiving you into thinking that the bible doesn't apply to you.....but RUN FROM THEM.

Yes, the entire bible applies to all Christians. And to be clear I am not playing your word games......I already know your going to play a game and pretend we are not talking about the NT. Soooooooooo when I say the entire bible, I mean the teachings of Christ and the Apostles: The New Testament.

 

[Marymog]

You can read in Scripture for yourself…
( Maybe you will conclude your opinion to be based on scriptural facts. )

YOUR facts Taken.....YOUR interpretation of Scripture Taken OR What YOUR men have taught you.

Keeping it real....and moving on........Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I love it when someone makes a statement that you listen to your men

When they in the base root of their doctrine. state they listen to their men and their men only and blindly follow them..

 

[Taken]

I don't know what man is deceiving you into thinking that the bible doesn't apply to you.....but RUN FROM THEM.

Yes, the entire bible applies to all Christians. And to be clear I am not playing your word games......I already know your going to play a game and pretend we are not talking about the NT. Soooooooooo when I say the entire bible, I mean the teachings of Christ and the Apostles: The New Testament.

Discussing anything with you is without profit.

You do not understand the simplest of things.

I NEVER said the Bible doesn’t apply to me.
I SAID THE ENTIRE Bible does not apply to me.

Then you deflect and say the Bible Applies to ALL Christians….So?

“I” am not “ALL” Christians.
“YOU” are not “ALL” Christian.

I was not speaking of ALL Christians.

I was speaking of and for. ONE PERSON…myself.

I asked YOU, ONE PERSON, if the ENTIRE Bible applies to you.

You didn’t answer.

 

[Taken]

YOUR facts Taken.....YOUR interpretation of Scripture Taken OR What YOUR men have taught you.

Keeping it real....and moving on........Mary

LOL…you speaking FOR me…what I have NOT said, is FAR from real….it is called lying.

 

[PinSeeker]

Oh goodness PinSeeker.......You have a horrible theory and revision of the truth (history).

LOL!

The Reformers did not return to Christianity in the days of the Apostles.

In a sense, no; that will not truly happen until Christ returns.

They all disagreed with The Church on doctrine.

On certain things, yes.

They thought they could interpret Scripture better than the men of The Church.

Well, they thought "The Church" was doing and teaching some things at odds with Scripture, and they were right.

They broke away from The Church and created their own doctrines; their own salvafic truths.

Not at all. This is the Catholic narrative. :)

Some of their doctrines agreed with Church doctrine and some of it didn't.

Agreed.

The TRUTH is they all disagreed with each other AND The Church....

A terrible over-generalization and overstatement.

sooooo your revision of history (that they were trying to return to the days of the Apostles) makes ZERO sense.

You want that to be true, sure. And I'm very much okay with that remaining your opinion.

If your theory was true which of the Reformers came the closest to returning to the days of the Apostles?

See above and below. I guess I would answer this "question" by saying each of them made great contributions.

Keeping it real

Well, real something... :)

It is not the "Catholic narrative".

It is. We can agree to disagree on this.

It is a historical FACT that the Reformers taught a different salvific teaching other than what The Church taught. That is one of the reasons WHY they left The Church; Because they disagreed with The Church on the interpretation of Scripture in regard to how one obtains salvation. That is a historical FACT!!

Hm. So, Marymog. How does one "obtain salvation"? Not that I don't know, but I'm just asking you for your opinion, and/or the opinion of "The Church."

According to YOU and the Reformers The Church had non-biblical teachings. If your theory were true and the Reformers, according to them being guided by the Holy Spirit, got back to biblical teachings, then all the Reformers would have taught the same thing and had the same doctrines. They would have all agreed with each other. They didn't!!! You do know that, don't you? Can you see how your theory makes no sense? The Holy Spirit did not give all of them different Truths to get "back to biblical teachings'.

And where, Marymog, do you think they differed? At this point, I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with what you say. But if you speak in such generalities, no discussion can be had. As I said, the purpose of the Reformers is summed up in basic points, what we call the five Solas ("alones") ~ Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), Solus Christus (Christ alone), Sola Fide (faith alone), Sola Gratia (grace alone), and Sola Deo Gloria (glory to God alone).

If the Reformers were trying to "bring back correct understanding and belief in God's holy, incorruptible, infallible, true Word".....THEY FAILED!

Well, in one sense, all attempts (even attempts by "The Church") will fail; true belief and understanding will not fully materialize until Christ returns.

They all disagreed with the 2,000-year teaching of Christianity

Pfffft. Even though one of the basic premises of the Reformation was Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone). I see. :)

AND they all disagreed with each other

Well, no person completely agrees with any other person on everything.

AND you disagree with all of them

LOL! How, Mary, would you have any idea? You don't.

sooooo in a sense YOU are a Reformer also. I mean after all, aren't YOU also trying to bring back correct understanding and belief in God's holy, incorruptible, infallible, true Word?

I'm trusting the Holy Spirit to do that as He will. :)

It is fascinating that you believe that Luther brought back to Christianity the "right" beliefs.

I think you don't really understand what I said, Mary. Or... you do, and you're making it out to be quite different that it was, either on purpose or inadvertently.

Which ones where they?

LOL!

Do you agree with EVERYTHING Luther brought back?

Luther didn't actually "bring back" anything. As Isaiah says and Peter quotes, the grass withers and the flower fades, but the Word of our God stands forever.

Curious

Ah, I don't think you really are.

I agree. Satan is not deceiving all men. I believe he is not deceiving the men of The Church.

Why are you so focused on men, Mary?

In your opinion (or according to your studies) who (or what group of men) is Satan not deceiving?

Everyone is susceptible to deception. Nothing about any one of us is anywhere close to perfect. We all fall far short of the glory of God.

What man in your life do you trust to fulfil Hebrews 13:7?

I see things here and there in many Christians ~ women and children included, past and present ~ worthy of remembrance and even emulation.

Curious

Yeah again, I doubt it. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Marymog]

In a sense, no; that will not truly happen until Christ returns.

Christ said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Your theory is that it has..........

 

[Marymog]

Well, they thought "The Church" was doing and teaching some things at odds with Scripture, and they were right.

According to who? YOU? And the Reformers also obviously....But I suspect you think that the Reformers believed some things that were at odds with Scripture which means that YOU are always right.....Right?

 

[Marymog]

A terrible over-generalization and overstatement.

Thanks for your opinion but, Nope not a over generalization. The FACT is that "they all disagreed with each other AND The Church". That is why they all started their own denominations with their own doctrines and their own truths.

 

[Marymog]

Well, in one sense, all attempts (even attempts by "The Church") will fail; true belief and understanding will not fully materialize until Christ returns.

WRONG AGAIN....Christ said that the gates of hell will NOT prevail against the church. Therefore The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, WILL NOT fail.

 

[Marymog]

I love it when someone makes a statement that you listen to your men

Scripture made that statement EG: Hebrews 13:17

Do you disagree with Scripture?