What is grace?

[Ronald David Bruno]

No, the Gospel is offered to all and some reject. Only His sheep hear His call. His sheep are given the gift of faith.

True.
I didn't imply anything to the contrary.

So, you are saying only them that believe are they that have been given the gift of faith. Humanistic reasoning that is not Scripture:

No one comes to the Father unless He draws them. He prepares their hearts (soil) and the seed (gospel) is planted when It is fertile. Only God can lift the spiritual veil of blindness. So those who hear that are blind have seed thatbis planted in soil thatbis not fertile. This does not mean they lose entirely. They may fall away for twenty years or like with my Dad, a lifetime of atheism. But God prepared his heart all along for that special divine appointment which then he was ready for. A ten year old Catholic boy brought up in a Catholic family, whose father was dying, did not have that gift of faith. He prayed for his father's life and God said no. He was devastated and fell away, because his soil was shallow - It wasnt ready for the seed. But he was on His list for a later time, my Mom too - wow, she needed lots of preparation coming out of the belief in the Universal Energy force, reincarnation, astrology, aliens in the hollow earth - OMG! And she was narcistic as well, never thoufht she did anything wrong, had no sin, and if there was a heaven, she earned her passage. I chipped away at her foolishness for 30 years. Finally on her death bed, completely disabled, she was humbled and reached out to God.

This is not a heartless theme. GOD'S GRACE IS NOTHING BUT HEART AND MERCIFUL. He gives everyone ample opportunity.

The gift of faith is not just given to ground God has prepared, but is freely given by grace to all that hear, no matter the ground of the heart:

That's where you stumble. The gospel is given to every e repeatedly, but magic seed the grows Jacks bean stalk to the heavens is planted when God says the soil is ready.

The seed that grows to produce fruit is planted in fertile soil which God has prepared. The other soils have not been prepared.

Exactly. Preparation is needed. Life's experiences, learning about good and evil, lessons, refining character, guidance, the WORD penetrating and slowing transforming. Pride needs to be shattered. HUMILITY like a child is needed to come to God - all these things are preparations.

The seed is sown in the heart, not on the heart of them that reject, or do not continue to the end.

We never know if a person is reprobate and what God is doing in their heart. Since the seed is the gospel, it's scattered on their soil numerous times in their lives, so it is not like they have one chance, it is likely they aren't ready
I wasn't ready until I was 35. When I was young, my soil was concrete, the birds came and ate it. I didn't through the shallow soil stage. And I am not implying that we all go through all the different soul types, but some may fall away and then come back when they are ready.

You seem to be saying the condition is the hearing. But it is God's inner calling that is spiritual and super-natural. God enables us to hear His voice. You can't hear until He lifts the veil. The process of sanctification, being set apart for a purpose. When God sets you apart and purposes your divine appointment, you are ready and able to answer the call. People who reject it like I did for many years aren't ready, are not prepared.

Hey, That's all I got. I don't think you will see it the way I do. But I will stop here if you don't mind, my soil needs to be watered.

 

[Nancy]

Grace to me is Gods power to rise above the things that distress us. Or our infirmities"

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."
2 Corinthians 12:9

It is also His (undeserved) favor :)
JMHO!

 

[robert derrick]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. If only some are given the gift of faith (while others are not) then the Gospel is NOT offered to all.

That's the other guy's quote I was responding to

 

[Enoch111]

Grace to me is Gods power to rise above the things that distress us. Or our infirmities"

That is the grace given to children of God to overcome. But the grace (kindness and love) which bringeth salvation to men is different. It is the offer of eternal life, the forgiveness of sins, and all the blessings of salvation as a FREE GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE (Titus 3:4-7). Undeserved favor and lovingkindness is shown here.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We should note that in this unique passage both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are shown as our Saviors.

 

[robert derrick]

He prepares their hearts (soil) and the seed (gospel) is planted when It is fertile.

The problem is putting things in a humanist way that is not Scripture. God plants His seed by grace when one hears, and once one hears they are accountable for it. And when one believes and knows, they are more accountable, so that their later end of judgement is worse, than if they never believed and known the Lord. (2 Peter 2)

So those who hear that are blind have seed that is planted in soil that is not fertile. This does not mean they lose entirely.

No Scripture speaks of the Sower returning once again to plant. Once planted upon hearing, it is planted. That is what the power of God's grace is, not to save without condition, but to have power to endure even in dry ground, which is not the same as rejecting from the outset.

They may fall away for twenty years.

Nothing to fall away from that has not been raised up upon His hand. The effort to pretend falling away from the faith is falling away to unbelief from unbelief is subtle but false.

The seed is planted once, and if it takes root after 20 years by God's grace, then them that are last are first.

The gospel is given to every e repeatedly, but magic seed the grows Jacks bean stalk to the heavens is planted when God says the soil is ready.

Once again no Scripture for repeated sowing. It is humanist thinking. God does not resow what has been sown with His own seed. That is as Christ dying twice and not once for all, but being evidently crucified among us several times.

And of course it directly contradicts the Scripture: 1. Faith comes by hearing. Seed is planted upon hearing. By grace. 2. It is planted in the heart. That is the soil, ready or not, we have heard, and now we must believe or be condemned worse then them who never heard:

But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

The attempt is to say 'they that hear and do not believe' is because the seed was not really planted. It is the same false judgement as saying: if they confessed faith and then fell away, they were never really saved.

And a little advice: getting into 'magic seed' doesn't help our case. Trying to make something magically appear out of Scripture doesn't work with God, nor them that believe Scripture only. Like the Kung Fu Panda saying he can't live on 'dew and universe juice'. Sounds like that graceful gift of grace stuff.

The seed that grows to produce fruit is planted in fertile soil which God has prepared. The other soils have not been prepared

1. The false doctrine that the seed is not always planted upon hearing, is a supporting fiction for predetermination by special selection of certain individuals, as opposed to others that have heard.

The ground of all hearts and souls entering the world after the cross is being constantly prepared by the grace of Christ shining upon all, with the Spirit shed upon all flesh, speaking to all hearts and minds to be prepared to hear the name Jesus. When they do so, the seed is planted at once and in the heart. If the ground never becomes that of the honest and good, then it is cursed for an evil heart of unbelief.

God does not specifically 'choose out' certain soil to personally prepare above any other. That is respect of persons.

It is humanly natural for unconditional eternal security magicians to be predeterminants of specially chosen beforehand individuals. After all, if I was specially chosen in particular for God to prepare my soil, while not that of others, then I am so special to Him, that He could not possibly make the mistake of choosing me out above others, only to see me fall away.

Predeterminalists are proud in themselves. They truly believe themselves to be specially selected as individuals to be personally prepped for salvation, while others are not. They are groupies and proppies of pride.

"Hey, sorry dude, but I've been specially prepared by God Himself to believe this time around. Maybe you'll have better luck next time, but I've already got it in the bag." What bag? "Why my own special little bag of magic seed, of course! Want one?"

 

[robert derrick]

graceful gift of grace

You know someone is trying really hard to sell something, when they come up with stuff like this.

Sounds like the Fred Astaire of gifted grace.

The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

These are the same people who say those who don't agree with their magical unconditional security of salvation, are 'grace-haters'.

 

[robert derrick]

Grace to me is Gods power to rise above the things that distress us. Or our infirmities"

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."
2 Corinthians 12:9

It is also His (undeserved) favor :)
JMHO![/QUOTE

So, grace is unmerited power of God to endure unto the end, that is offered to all, but only experienced by them that believe.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Grace is unconditional. Salvation by grace is not.

Grace is the shining of the Sun of righteousness on the just and the unjust alike.

Grace is the open door to heaven that no man can close.

Grace is the increase that only God can give.

It is 'unconditional' in that it is available to all who come by faith without respect of persons, and it is available only because God's Son made it so by the cross.

Salvation by grace is conditioned on faith: believing the God who's grace is available to all that believe.

By faith in Jesus God's grace does not only shine upon us, but shines within our hearts. Without faith, the sun still shines, but not in our hearts.

By faith we water and dig the ground of our souls, and by grace God gives the increase. The work itself does not give the increase, that only God can give by grace. Without faith, we cannot water and dig, and so no increase from God.

By faith we enter through the door of the Shepherd. Without faith we cannot enter, neither can we enter by another way. The door remains open by grace, but we can only enter by faith.

God saves by grace through faith: grace is open for all, but only through faith can grace save. The opening by Christ is the grace of God, that no man can earn, but the entering into Christ is through faith only.

Grace in modern english is rendered Kindness sir

 

[Nancy]

Hi Robert,
I said that His grace is His "un-merited favor", meaning we get what we do not deserve as, He is a graceful God. And it is also His power (so to speak) for us to rise above infirmities, adversary's, or anything that we as humans might have battles with in this world.

"Your grace is sufficient for me...I say that allot when I become frustrated while not being able to do many things I used to be able to do easily. I accept it finally and say "your grace is sufficient for me Lord". And then I pray for Him to send someone who CAN do these things for me at a fair price :)

Again, JMHO

 

[Nancy]

That is the grace given to children of God to overcome. But the grace (kindness and love) which bringeth salvation to men is different. It is the offer of eternal life, the forgiveness of sins, and all the blessings of salvation as a FREE GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE (Titus 3:4-7). Undeserved favor and lovingkindness is shown here.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We should note that in this unique passage both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are shown as our Saviors.

Yes, agreed.
Also, I do have that verse circled and the word "savior" underlined. Hard to read it without seeing God AS Savior but, there ya have it...Jesus WAS God. :)

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, agreed.
Also, I do have that verse circled and the word "savior" underlined. Hard to read it without seeing God AS Savior but, there ya have it...Jesus WAS God. :)

They are always trying to sneak in their 'created christ' angle wherever they can. I stopped being a fish to bite their flies.

 

[robert derrick]

Grace in modern english is rendered Kindness sir

Ok. It is very kind of the sun to shine upon us, and to taste of His kindness we must believe in it, and they who desire it, will want to believe it.

 

[robert derrick]

"Grace is unmerited favor". I'm sure most have heard that explanation, and I frankly agree. Since we cannot keep the entire Law (as no one has) we are never worthy of it.

Grace comes one way: by faith. Grace is freely given, but faith must be acquired. The only way its acquired is by hearing the Word of God through a preacher. I know that isn't popular, but that is ehat Romans 10 and 1 Cor 1 says.

For those of you that believe confession is necessary and repentance is necessary... Fine. Hearing the Word will lead to that.

You don't need a little grace or a whole lot of it. You just need it. His grace is sufficient. Its enough! Its kind of like super spandex... Where sin abounds grace does much more abound.

But how much faith is needed? And that leads to the "silly" (but reasonably asked) question of how much "good works" we must have. Lets stay with "faith" first.

Faith comes by hearing the preached word (Romans 10:13,14,17). Faith can be increased (Luke 17:5, 2 Cor 10:15). It is delivered (Jude 1:3) and must be contended for (also Jude 1:3). It must be contended for because it is precious (1 Peter 1:7 and 2 Peter 1:1). There are probably other things you can do for faith, with faith and to get faith and to increase faith. Please by all means add to the list!

But how much faith do you need? (I am aure you know what is coming next): Jesus said in many parables (I will note Matthew 17:20) that if it were the size of a grain of mustard seed it is sufficient to move mountains.

So how much do you need? Well mustard seed size. Thats all. How much grace do you need? Well, whatever amount comes in that mustard seed. Thats enough.

How many good works? Whatever the mustard seed holds.

But if you know that faith can be acquired, delivered, increased and contended for, why would you not diligently seek such if the love of God is in you? Are you looking for the path of least resistance? Jesus told a few parables about this. My favorite is about workers who worked all day in the field and the ones who showed up an hour before quitting time received the same pay.

Yea, not fair! But God don't see it like that. We shouldn't be that kind of Christian.

How much grace, how much faith, how many "good works" do we need? Well, whatever Jesus meant by the mustard seed. But why ask whats required when you can thank God and nurture what he gave?

And no... Its not evidence of your faith or the grace you receive. As long as you have faith, it isn't dead.

How much good works must we have?

As much as comes our way. As often as we see opportunity.

And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. (Gal 6)

Grace is the opportunity to do good in the sight of God. By grace we have an engine to drive. Faith turns on the engine, and the Spirit is the fuel of driving the race well.

By grace God gives the increase. By grace God creates all things. By grace we have an eternal soul. By faith the soul is saved.

By grace we believe unto salvation: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. (Rom 1)

Grace is made available to all by the blood of the Lamb, and only by faith of Jesus do we drink His blood and are washed in His blood.

The grace that shines freely upon all earth is red as the morning dawn. By faith the daystar rises in our hearts, and we are given the morning star.

Grace shines unconditionally upon all, and the salvation of God by grace is dependent on believing Jesus and continuing in His faith.

 

[robert derrick]

Grace is the open door to heaven that no man can close.

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

It is unconditionally open without respect of person, and therefore any man can enter by Jesus.

Believing Jesus is the condition of salvation by grace, which is to enter in.

And continuing in the grace and faith and Word of the Lord, to go in and out whithersoever He goeth, is the condition of being prepared for His coming:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. (1 John 3)

And so, the believing is by grace, and the entering in, and following the true Shepherd: Saved and justified by grace, if we keep and hold fast the faith committed to us and are careful to maintain good works.

So there is no boasting, but only believing and doing by grace what we are born to do, and not turning back from the hope set before us, nor staggering at the promise of God.

Grace is not the Saviour, and Grace is not God, and Grace is not the One who keep us 'preserved' unconditionally: grace is simply the opened door to the Father for all who would enter in by faith in Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. (2 Tim 1)

By grace, God purposes to call and save us through faith. We are called of God by grace, not because of our works.

Grace of God is God calling us to Himself, as well as convicting us of sin.

Grace of God is God's good pleasure to give us His kingdom by faith.

Grace of God is to save us to fulfill His calling and the purpose of His creation: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (Rev 4)

Grace of God is to pour His Spirit upon all flesh.

Grace of God is to love the world to give His Son and His faith

The grace of God is His, not ours, therefore we are saved by His grace not our good works or pleasure or will of man.


Grace of God comes with salvation through faith, and salvation by faith comes with God's good pleasure and love shed abroad in the heart.

We love Him because He first loved us by grace: we are pleased to do His will, because His good pleasure is in us to do so.

Grace comes with salvation through faith, and salvation comes with doing the good pleasure of His will: the good works of faith by grace.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Phillip 2)

 

[Robert Gwin]

Ok. It is very kind of the sun to shine upon us, and to taste of His kindness we must believe in it, and they who desire it, will want to believe it.

No argument here Bob, I fully agree sir.

 

[prism]

How is the quote telling us to be like God in the way you mean?



The following are two excerpts from the quote in question:






You should have actually read the quote in full before claiming it does not mention x and y and thus is "New Age."

I believe I answered your first point in #24.
As for your last point, the new age uses a lot of the same terminology but uses a different dictionary.

 

[robert derrick]

"As long as you have faith, it isn't dead."

The implied part being you have faith that works: works of faith.

Like a car, it must be working or can't drive anywhere, and if working it must be driven, or it rots in place over time exposed to the environment, and showing the exterior effects of the world upon it, even as the gas goes bad and finally dries up altogether.

Faith is given by grace, planted as soon as the word of the Gospel is heard, but faith without works is dead.

Believing we are saved is not the faith of Jesus that works salvation in us. Faith toward God to do His will is the faith that saves. We know we believe God, when we do the will of God, and so we know we have eternal life, because we believe on Him.

So long as we are doing the will of God by faith, which includes obeying the faith of God (Rom 1), then salvation is never a question, but rather going forward to the hope of resurrection with confidence, not in ourselves, but in the faith that is surely in us:

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Phillip 2)

The problem with unconditional salvation and so unconditional security of salvation, is that notion that God working in us does all the work, including watering and till our soil, so that the seed bears fruit to God.

I.e. Jesus not only allowed Himself to be crucified on the cross for our sins, but He also does the crucifying of our old man. He does it all, including the driving of the new care, while we just relax and enjoy the ride, with peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, because even the righteousness is His and not our own.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (I John 3)

This is also by grace, but we do our own surface cleaning, while He that is pure works in us to cleanse what we cannot: our hearts and souls by grace.

It's all by grace of God, salvation and justification, but it's not all by God alone. We must do our part to abide in Him and be part of His body and first resurrection.

 

[prism]

You did not.



You said the quote is New Age because it does not mention Jesus' death and Blood, but it does:

New Age Mystic, here is from Wiki...

Maria Valtorta (14 March 1897 – 12 October 1961) was a Roman Catholic Italian writer and poet. She was a Franciscan tertiary and a lay member of the Servants of Mary who reported reputed personal conversations with, and dictations from, Jesus Christ.

On the morning of 23 April 1943, Good Friday, Valtorta reported a voice suddenly speaking to her and asking her to write. From her bedroom she called for Marta Diciotti, showed her the sheet in her hands and said that "something extraordinary" had happened. Diciotti called Father Migliorini regarding the "dictation" Valtorta had reported. Father Migliorini asked her to write down anything else she "received" and over time provided her with notebooks to write in.

From 1943 to 1951 Valtorta produced over 15,000 handwritten pages in 122 notebooks. She wrote her autobiography in seven additional notebooks. These pages became the basis of her major work, The Poem of the Man-God, and constitute about two thirds of her literary work. The reputed visions give a detailed account of the life of Jesus from his birth to the Passion with more elaboration than the Gospels provide. For instance, while the Gospel includes a few sentences about the wedding at Cana, the text includes a few pages and narrates the words spoken among the people present. The reputed visions also describe the many journeys of Jesus throughout the Holy Land and his conversations with people such as the apostles.[8]

You decide for yourself, but in my Book, that is Catholic mysticism, which much of the New Age borrows from.

 

[marks]

Some would say that even our faith is on account of grace...

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Grammatically, "grace", "saved", and "faith" are all included in this gift.

Much love!