What if you lose your faith?

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace Romans 14.23 says: "whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

What does Romans 14:23 mean?

It simply means that if we do anything we do not believe is right, then for us it is sin.

Verse 20 and 21 speak of not making another person stumble. It states we should not eat something if it makes another person stumble.
Imagine telling persons they can't lose their salvation even if they stop believing! Seems like that is a far greater stumbling block when it is not the word of God.

Verse 17 tells us that the Kingdom of God is living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. If we serve God with this attitude we will please God.

This is Paul speaking...not me.
How do we please God if we do not even believe in Him? WHENEVER that unbelief may occur.

 

[GodsGrace]

Dropship said: ↑..no doubt some people can't stay the course, in which case I doubt whether they were true Christians in the first place..:)

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (2 Timothy 4:7)
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Verses about what exactly? This thread is taking so many twists and turns I'm not sure what we're talking about any more..:)
If somebody is flip-flopping by being a Christian one minute and "losing their faith" the next, they can't have been strong christians in the first place, agreed?

Dropship
What I'm looking for in the NT is any verse or verses would be better since a doctrine cannot be built on only one verse,
that states that a person is saved one time and then can never lose their salvation.

There is no such verse because this concept of OSAS does not exist and did not exist until Luther and Calvin decided it was right. This was 1,500 years after Jesus walked this earth and taught no such concept.

 

[GodsGrace]

Unless Paul specifically goes out Of His way to warn that what he is about to write is his own opinion and that only......anything that Paul says comes straight from Jesus— Paul never wrote Anything That Jesus did not tell him to write—- Paul was God’s “ Chosen Vessel” to be the Voice of Jesus after His Ascension.... As Peter said..” Paul is sometimes hard to understand, but everything he writes is equal to any Scripture Found In God’s Word”.....

I said this.
I said everything Paul wrote syncs with what Jesus taught.

Don't go off-topic...

Please, one of you OSASers find a few verses that state simply that once a person is saved, he can never lose his salvation no matter what.

Which is what YOU and others are stating and which is not biblical and was not taught for 1,500 years of Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

“ Never Taught?” What do you think THIS verse is teaching? ——- “ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved , WILL be Saved!” ...There’s a few dozen more....

Of course anyone that wants to be saved will be saved.

Where does it state he can never become lost again???

Back up your words with scripture just like I do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sorry.....it’s more like “ Be Saved and God will TRANSFORM you from the Inside Out” —- Yep....it’s that “ INSIDE of the Cup” thingy once again....
“Turning over a New Leaf” ( if I can quote you, as you say) is a Doctrine Straight from Hell!

There you go doing it again. Why do you twist everything you hear to mean 'turning over a new leaf earns you salvation'? The turning over to a new leaf is the RESULT of being saved. You get changed on the inside by becoming born again and as a result you bear different leaves and fruit because you are a different tree. Understand?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you want to , I invite you to throw out any verse that you are unknowingly ( I hope) Confused about and I will try to get you to see it properly, examining it through a Lens Of Grace

"6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14​

You're up, champ. Show us how these are wrong and that you ARE His house, and sharing in Christ if you don't hold firmly, believing in what you started out in. Can't wait...going to get my shovel...

 

[Marymog]

Is there an “ Interpreter” Present in the Congregation.....did you not know that Speaking In Tongues without an Interpreter present to explain the “ Unknown Tongue ” is an Act Of Sin ? You can look it up....I already did...

Hi BB,

Thanks for joining the conversation. Let me catch you up on what we are debating.

@Ferris Bueller asked, "Why are the 'apostles' of the Catholic church disobedient to the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14:26-31?" He even gave the opinion that 99.9% of denominations are disobedient to Paul's teaching and suggested that the denomination of saints he belongs to don't disobey Paul's teaching whenever they meet for a church service. As you know that passage says, in part, When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. After a bit of discussion we later agreed that "speaking in tongues is not required" during a church service! That passage, 1 Corinthians 14:26-31, says nothing about there needing an interpreter present as you have alleged. As a mater of fact it says, "If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet..."

With that said it appears that what your men have taught you may be incorrect! That is unless you have a passage you can quote to back up your opinion! After all, it is only your opinion until you give facts to back it up!

Mary

 

[Behold]

Where does it state he can never become lost again???

There is no verse in any bible that says a born again Christian can be "lost".

There are verses that are symbolic that talk about candlesticks and branches.
There is a verse that talks about becoming a castaway.
One about "abiding".
etc, etc, but NO Verse says that Christ will Leave the Born again.. That Christ will stop being in union with the Spirit of a Born again Believer, which is the only reason you are SAVED.
Why isn't that verse in any bible or greek lexicon? ?
Because Jesus never leaves you, once you are joined to him, as "one with God", "in Christ".

faith does not keep you saved.
Faith is not the savior.
God accepts your faith ONCE....one time only, and that is it, its done.
How do you know?
=BORN AGAIN.
And if you are just water baptized, playing Catholic church games, then that is not the same.

 

[farouk]

Dropship
What I'm looking for in the NT is any verse or verses would be better since a doctrine cannot be built on only one verse,
that states that a person is saved one time and then can never lose their salvation.

There is no such verse because this concept of OSAS does not exist and did not exist until Luther and Calvin decided it was right. This was 1,500 years after Jesus walked this earth and taught no such concept.

@GodsGrace Romans 8.38-39; Philippians 1.6; Romans 10.29-30, etc.

The Parable of the Sower shows that those who profess but fall away never had any true root of faith in them in the first place; Mark 4.17.

 

[Behold]

@GodsGrace Romans 8.38-39; Philippians 1.6; Romans 10.29-30, etc.

The Parable of the Sower shows that those who profess but fall away never had any true root of faith in them in the first place; Mark 4.17.

@100%

They were never born again.

 

[GodsGrace]

"6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14​

You're up, champ. Show us how these are wrong and that you ARE His house, and sharing in Christ if you don't hold firmly, believing in what you started out in. Can't wait...going to get my shovel...

Gosh.
This is just too much...
I think some don't see the IF in both verses...

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace Romans 8.38-39; Philippians 1.6; Romans 10.29-30, etc.

The Parable of the Sower shows that those who profess but fall away never had any true root of faith in them in the first place; Mark 4.17.

So there's a root and a true root?
A believer and a true believer?
Must leave for a while...

 

[farouk]

@GodsGrace Mark 4.16-17: "16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended."

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace Mark 4.16-17: "16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended."

They ENDURE FOR A WHILE.
Instead we must endure to the end.

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

Same parable, same group of persons.
They receive the Word with JOY.
They believe for a while.
In temptation they fall away.

Do you agree that if one believes he is saved?
What are they falling away from?


Matthew 13:21
21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

Same parable, same group of persons.
Is only TEMPORARY.
Persecution arises and immediately he falls away.

What is temporary?
What do they fall away from?


@Behold might be of some help.

 

[amadeus]

...
What I'm looking for in the NT is any verse or verses would be better since a doctrine cannot be built on only one verse,
that states that a person is saved one time and then can never lose their salvation.

There is no such verse because this concept of OSAS does not exist and did not exist until Luther and Calvin decided it was right. This was 1,500 years after Jesus walked this earth and taught no such concept.

There is no verse in any bible that says a born again Christian can be "lost".
...
etc, etc, but NO Verse says that Christ will Leave the Born again.. That Christ will stop being in union with the Spirit of a Born again Believer, which is the only reason you are SAVED...

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

And if a person does not overcome, a person, who has been born again [born from above], will he not then die the second death?

 

[amadeus]

@GodsGrace Mark 4.16-17: "16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended."

"And so endure but for a time"! This speaks of the guy who chooses Jesus and then changes his mind; He backslides!

Or like Simon here, a person believes but fails to then to continue to humble himself before God, following the lead of his own flesh, his own pride, his own greed. He fails to finally overcome the enemies in himself:

Ac 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done

Ac 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Ac 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Ac 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Ac 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Ac 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Ac 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Ac 8:24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

If we have not overcome all of the temptations in ourselves by the power of the Holy Spirit, and instead quench the Spirit of God, will not the old man of us reassert his dominion over us?

Is any believer here still tempted to sin? Who among us has overcome all of the temptations so as to never be tempted again?

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:15-17

 

[Behold]

Gosh.
This is just too much...
I think some don't see the IF in both verses...

Ferris Bueller, likes to try to bend the bible to his bizarre "i am saving myself" theology, using a verse.
He never reads past his "gotcha verse attempt", because his commentaries also dont.

See, In the verse that has tangled you up, its says...... IF WE HOLD.

But then, read a little farther, as the bible is very interesting, in that it will explain one verse with another.

Like this....Hebrews 4:3

Notice it says that "we who HAVE Believed, enter into the REST" that the verse is talking about.... and not by continuing to believe, but HAVE ALREADY.

And now who is it that verse Hebrews 3:14 is talking about, as its not the born again.

Its the UNBELIEVERS... Hebrews 4:7



Study the word, reader, and not just one verse.

 

[Dropship]

Dropship
What I'm looking for in the NT is any verse or verses would be better since a doctrine cannot be built on only one verse,
that states that a person is saved one time and then can never lose their salvation.
There is no such verse because this concept of OSAS does not exist and did not exist until Luther and Calvin decided it was right. This was 1,500 years after Jesus walked this earth and taught no such concept.

I agree with you, firstly because nobody truly KNOWS if they're saved even if they call themself a Christian, and secondly they lay themselves open to the demon of arrogance who makes them think "I'm saved, Satan can't touch me now", so they foolishly drop their guard against him.

For example Hitler used to go to church and possibly thought "I'm OSAS so whatever I do won't endanger my soul".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the Promise Of Jesus that if you Believed in Him you were “ALREADY SAVED and could NEVER COME UNDER CONDEMNATION”..... no time requirements or limitations were given—- if you Truly Believed for ANY Length of time , you got qualified and covered by the Promise.....” Already” means already and “NEVER” means never.

You're misrepresenting the verse. The promise is for the BELIEVING person.

"24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24​

'Believes' is in the present tense. That is the time requirement and limitation that Jesus gave.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ferris Bueller, likes to try to bend the bible to his bizarre "i am saving myself" theology, using a verse.

I hope you're still searching for that verse that says 'believing' is you trying to save yourself in a 'works earn salvation' gospel. Any progress on that yet?