What if you lose your faith?

[GEN2REV]

I'm a believing person. And I plan on continuing to believe to the very end. I'm not going any where near the smoking gates. I don't know why you'd even say such a stupid thing. We have not talked anything about my condition.

That's how Abraham, our example of justification, was made right with God. Justification (being made righteous) is entirely on the basis of believing and trusting in God's promise of a Son who will inherit the blessing on our behalf.

Now, the matter of "being accepted into heaven" at the resurrection will involve Jesus opening the books and examining your works for evidence of faith in and love for him. And so in that way, AND THAT WAY ONLY, will works be needed to be saved from God's wrath. Of course, most Christians are only capable of hearing that as a works gospel, lol. But it's not. Works are only required to be saved when Jesus comes back to show that you are a true believer, not to earn salvation. Fake believers don't have works because they don't have faith in God. And so on that basis they will go to the left and into the fire when Jesus comes back. While the believers who do have works, because they have faith, will go to the right and into the kingdom.

Demons do not have the hope of God's promise of a Son inheriting the blessing on their behalf in their hearts. They do not believe in the promise of God. They just know it's true. They have intellectual faith. The faith that does not work. The faith that can not save. They in no way shape or form represent believing Christians who don't have works and the fiery fate of those who have no works. Saved, believing Christians have that which accompanies salvation - works. Specifically, works of love for Christ and the church (Hebrews 6:9).

Look out.

So, here's your believers who have resurrection life ...
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting (resurrection) life: ..."
John 3:36
These are standing before Jesus after being resurrected.
Matthew 7:22

... and here's what happens to them for not obeying the Commandments, for being workers of iniquity (sin/breaking of the Commandments).
" ... but whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, ..."
John 3:36
These, who were resurrected, are rejected for their disobedience; for habitually disobeying the Commandments.
Matthew 7:23

Looks like belief is not enough. :)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Looks like belief is not enough. :)

Saved, believing Christians have that which accompanies salvation - works. Specifically, works of love for Christ and the church (Hebrews 6:9).

How many times are you not going to read what I post? ↑↑↑

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If baptism were “presented” that way, it was done in ignorance ....God-Sent Preachers make it clear that Water Baptism has NOTHING to do with getting Saved or Receiving the Holy Spirit....

Are you “ Baptized” Into “ The Body Of Christ” by RESTING in Paul’s Gospel ? THAT is the only Baptism that counts for Salvation....Water Baptism is a “ picture” of that.....

Stay on point, lol!
It's possible to receive the baptism of power in the Holy Spirit (your spiritual gift) with and at your water baptism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Double LOL.....You are making my Point for me ! Read the story Of Lot! He lived a Rotten life.....willing to hand over his children to be raped by a mob....he had sex with his own Daughters ....He Ripped- Off Abraham and the Clincher—- the Main Reason I brought up his name for all of you “ RepentanceWorshippers “ out there —- is because as evil as he was he was STILL counted as being Righteous because of his Faith.....He died drunk in a cave and their is NO RECORD of his ever “ RELENTING” for that Sin as he died—— its very difficult to “repent” of a Sin when you are passed out as he was....

This is one way we know Lot was repentant:

"Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless" 2 Peter 2:7​

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This is one way we know Lot was repentant:

"Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless" 2 Peter 2:7​

I am talking about the Repentance —or the very probable lack of it — , in regard to ONE specific instance....Being “ distressed “ about the behaviors of others is not the same as Repentance from your OWN personal sins....
He got drunk and died in a cave....did he wake up and repent real quick and then lie back and die?
The Point is it looks like he died while he was passed out in the sin of drunkenness and did not have a chance to “ Repent Of His Sin” before He died...( the Ultimate “ no-no” For Many here) ....Yet this man who committed many vile sins in his lifetime was not only saved, He was considered a “ HERO! A hero of what? * FAITH* .......

David was another Terrible Sinner , who in the end, fared well with God....Why? His incredible *FAITH* He was and Adulterer and a Murderer, yet God considered him “ a man after his own heart”....it seems That “ Love” is not the ONLY THING that “ covers a multitude of sins” .....it almost seems that Faith trumps “ do do this and don’t do that”.....

It has been my experience that if I concentrate on and also ACT on the * Promises* of God —-which is what True Faith Is—- I get God's Spirit in me and a lot of the stuff that people claim MUST be done just seems to find a way of GETTING done —- without me even having to try so hard—- if at all.....is it just me?.....it’s like My life is being “Transformed” For the better , despite myself and my many flaws...is it just Me?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am talking about the Repentance —or the very probable lack of it — , in regard to ONE specific instance....Being “ distressed “ about the behaviors of others is not the same as Repentance from your OWN personal sins....
He got drunk and died in a cave....did he wake up and repent real quick and then lie back and die?
The Point is it looks like he died while he was passed out in the sin of drunkenness and did not have a chance to “ Repent Of His Sin” before He died...( the Ultimate “ no-no” For Many here) ....Yet this man who committed many vile sins in his lifetime was not only saved, He was considered a “ HERO! A hero of what? * FAITH* .......

David was another Terrible Sinner , who in the end, fared well with God....Why? His incredible *FAITH* He was and Adulterer and a Murderer, yet God considered him “ a man after his own heart”....it seems That “ Love” is not the ONLY THING that “ covers a multitude of sins” .....it almost seems that Faith trumps “ do do this and don’t do that”.....

It has been my experience that if I concentrate on and also ACT on the * Promises* of God —-which is what True Faith Is—- I get God's Spirit in me and a lot of the stuff that people claim MUST be done just seems to find a way of GETTING done —- without me even having to try so hard—- if at all.....is it just me?.....it’s like My life is being “Transformed” For the better , despite myself and my many flaws...is it just Me?

Lot did not live in sin. If he did he would not be a hero of faith but a lost sinner just like the rest of the world.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ive seen or met your type of "here is how im trying to keep myself saved, because i dont BELIEVE that CHRIST ALONE Keeps me saved, unless i DO SOMETHING".

Just checking in. Have you found that verse that says continuing to believe in the blood of Christ is a work of the damnable works gospel yet?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yeah....I “ really” need to hear this.....give me a break....even YOU know that that accusation is Pure B. S.......how many time have “ I” and NOT you taught that Jesus died for EVERY SIN ever Committed on this Planet—- even the Sins Of Hitler —- and all a person has to do in order to get Saved is to “ Cash- In” on what Jesus has already accomplished.....

I often disagree with you but I have always Respected you as an “ Honest Debater”..... you KNOW BETTER than to make this False Accusation and you know it Better than ANYBODY! Stop pulling stuff out of your A.. er, ah, rear-end to try to score points in what always has been an honest exchange of ideas and beliefs.....I think that you are smarter and better than that....

BB! Stay on point! Your sins and mine put Jesus on the cross, not just the unforgivable sin of your local legalist.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Ferris Bueller

If I may…

Let’s look at this passage:

“For if we (saved believers) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

It seems to me if your assertion that belief alone guarantees salvation, then this passage would read this way instead:

“For if we stop believing after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Or am I missing something you’re saying?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lol—- “ hate their guts?” .....Exaggerate Much ! I have NEVER had a “ Bad Experience” with a True Christian....It’s the Finger- Pointing , “ Holier Than Thou” , Self- Righteous RELIGIONIST Hypocrite that I have the problem with —- You Know....The Spiritual Descendants Of The Religionists That Crucified our Lord and Savior?

YOU can be “ buddies” with these types if you choose.....as I said previously, “ Birds of a Feather , Flock together....”
I much prefer the company of the ordinary , run- of- the- mill Sinner than I do to the company of a Self- Righteous Hypocrite....That kinda makes me like Jesus....Lord knows, I can’t make “ that” c,aim very often....

What you're not getting is you're supposed to have the same Biblical attitude toward all the other hypocrites in the church living in sin as you do the legalists in the church. But you never lift a finger to denounce those fakes, only legalists. That is what is so sickening about your Freegrace theology: You hate the legalist sinners in the church, but embrace all the other ones, doing that in the name of grace when the Bible is very clear that we are not to even so much as eat lunch with a hypocrite in the church! Why the double standard, BB? This double standard has filled our churches with unsaved people who have been deceived by your Freegrace theology that they are somehow really saved when they are not. That's what I abhor about what you and others are doing in the church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris Bueller

If I may…

Let’s look at this passage:

“For if we (saved believers) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

It seems to me if your assertion that belief alone guarantees salvation, then this passage would read this way instead:

“For if we stop believing after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Or am I missing something you’re saying?

Let me fill in the blanks for you.

(Hang in there, I hit the post button by accident before I posted anything, lol.)

Born again people are not willful sinners. The supposedly born again person who has gone back to willfully sinning in his old life has either 1) gone back to unbelief, or 2) never really been born again to begin with. That's why you can substitute 'unbeliever' (not, 'saved unbeliever') in front of 'sin willfully' in Hebrews 10:26.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It seems to me if your assertion that belief alone guarantees salvation, then this passage would read this way instead:

“For if we stop believing after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Or am I missing something you’re saying?

Belief alone guarantees justification. The justified person is, of course, saved. But belief that is alone, having no works, represents believing that did not solicit the righteousness that comes from God given to a person as a gift. It's a fake faith. It's no better than the 'faith' of demons. It's an intellectual faith, not a trusting faith.

To be declared righteous - that is , to receive the righteousness that is from God - all you have to 'do' is believe that the blood of Christ cleanses your sin, making you righteous and fit to enter the kingdom of God. And so you are, as we like to say, saved. And you really are. You really have passed from death to life. You really do have eternal life. But to be saved when Jesus comes back - that is, pass safely through the end-time judgment, you have to have the works of righteous that accompany the new righteous nature you were gifted with. Or else you're showing yourself to not have received the righteousness of God at all. And so you will go to the left and into the fiery place.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Born again people are not willful sinners

But the inspired writer (saved, born again, believer) of Hebrews says if “we” sin willfully: including himself. If it were not possible for a saved believing saint to sin wilfully this passage would make no sense.

It’s not adding up @Ferris Bueller

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lol....
Your 100% Ignorance of my Experiences, your Ignorant Assumptions Of my life are worth EXACTLY what I paid for them——NOTHING. Back to the “ Drawing Board” for you, Dr.Freud ....haha...

And I paid so much for yours.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Belief alone guarantees justification. The justified person is, of course, saved. But belief that is alone, having no works, represents believing that did not solicit the righteousness that comes from God given to a person as a gift. It's a fake faith. It's no better than the 'faith' of demons. It's an intellectual faith, not a trusting faith.

I am sorry @Ferris Bueller

This is the same kind of empty talk of the likes of @BloodBought 1953 @mailmandan

With all due respect brother.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But the inspired writer (saved, born again, believer) of Hebrews says if “we” sin willfully: including himself. If it were not possible for a saved believing saint to sin wilfully this passage would make no sense.

It’s not adding up @Ferris Bueller

The unbelief creeps in before the willfully sinning. Christians let what they've heard slip from their hearts and they slip into their old lives of unconverted sinfulness. That's the 'we' in the passage. The Christian who does that will not be saved when Jesus comes back. He will suffer the wrath of God when Jesus comes back. He no longer has Jesus to protect him from the wrath of God because he no longer believes in Jesus, the evidence of which is his return to his sinful life.

 

[mailmandan]

Let me fill in the blanks for you.

(Hang in there, I hit the post button by accident before I posted anything, lol.)

Born again people are not willful sinners. The supposedly born again person who has gone back to willfully sinning in his old life has either 1) gone back to unbelief, or 2) never really been born again to begin with. That's why you can substitute 'unbeliever' (not, 'saved unbeliever') in front of 'sin willfully' in Hebrews 10:26.

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. Whether one believes that the person who is willfully sinning has gone back to unbelief or was never really been born again to begin with, regardless, Hebrews 10:26 does not support 'sinless perfection.'

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am sorry @Ferris Bueller

This is the same kind of empty talk of the likes of @BloodBought 1953 @mailmandan

With all due respect brother.

I'm pretty sure mailmandan understands that a man is justified both way, by faith and by works. And that he understands that James' justification by works does not mean works earn salvation, but rather works validate one's faith as being genuine, the faith itself being that which solicits the free gift of righteousness all by itself.

BB on the other hand, lol, he thinks a person can confess Christ and then turn right around and continue to live in the pig pen of his life, purposefully and willfully with no thought of righteous living and he will still be saved when Jesus comes back. He does not understand that if that person had really believed in Christ he would have a growing life of righteous living to show for it. The fact that that person stayed right where he was in unrighteousness shows that he did not receive any gift of righteousness from God at all in any way shape or form. He doesn't understand that. Actually, I think he does, but what I mean is he rejects it. Even though it's a clear Biblical teaching.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The unbelief creeps in before the willfully sinning.

No my friend. The believers are the “we” in the passage. Otherwise the writer would have been clear in saying if “they” the unbelievers sin willfully…

Or, if we “stop believing and sin willfully”…

It’s not a logical proposition @Ferris Bueller

He no longer has Jesus to protect him from the wrath of God because he no longer believes in Jesus, the evidence of which is his return to his sinful life.

King Saul still believed in God and look what happened to him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. Whether one believes that the person who is willfully sinning has gone back to unbelief or was never really been born again to begin with, regardless, Hebrews 10:26 does not support 'sinless perfection.'

I'm on board 100% with this.