What does the bible say happens when you die

[Davy]

I didn't read the translations because the commas are as uninspired in them as they are in my KJV.

See, you can't face the truth that if you remove the comma, the verse can EASILY be read in the way I'm showing you and as it should be, that's why you have to rely on uninspired commas.

Makes sense you didn't read those Bible versions, since you show you would rather believe WHAT YOU WANT, and not what is actually written per the Greek.

 

[Phoneman777]

Makes sense you didn't read those Bible versions, since you show you would rather believe WHAT YOU WANT, and not what is actually written per the Greek.

Hello? The "actual Greek" doesn't contain punctuation...do I have to say that in Greek before it sinks in?

"Verily, I say unto you today thou shalt be with Me in paradise".

Now, you wanna talk Greek? In the Septuagint, the word "today" (Sameren) precedes the verb that it modifies 51 times, but follows the verb it modifies 170 times... which means the majority use of the word has it modifying the verb that follows it almost 4-1!

 

[Davy]

Hello? The "actual Greek" doesn't contain punctuation...do I have to say that in Greek before it sinks in?

Well, you said it, but you try to put a comma in it where one doesn't exist.

You said:
"The comma isn't inspired, but if we insist on placing one, it goes before the word "today" because neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that Friday."


What you said there is what American Indians used to claim how white man speaks with a 'forked tongue'. Out of one side of your mouth you admit the comma separation is not in the Greek, but then you admit to 'agreeing' to add one to make the passage read how you want. That is forked tongue speech.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I laughed at this, but in fact I truly am baffled that there are people who think that the "bosom of Abraham" is a literal place.

The "bosom" in Jewish thinking was a position of favor. When reclining at a meal, the one closest to the heart of the host was considered to be in the "bosom" position. So the "bosom of Abraham" was a position of favor with God. The Pharisees (pictured by the rich man) lost their position of favor by rejecting their Messiah....the beggar gained it by accepting Jesus and acting on his teachings....spreading the word to all who would listen.

The parable is about a poor diseased man who starved to death at a rich man's door watching him party. As the poor man and the rich man are in the afterlife, it is obvious that the poor man was traumatized by his horrible experiences on Earth and Abraham was holding him and comforting him.

You know, its amazing reading on this thread how many different interpretations are presented.....but all we have to do is go back to the beginning and start from there.....

What did God tell Adam?
Genesis 3:19..."In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Is there mention of an afterlife there...."heaven or hell" as opposite destinations? I can't find any.
What God told Adam is that if they disobeyed God's command, they would go back where they came from.....made from the elements of the earth, and at death would return to their former state. Where were Adam and his wife before God created them? They simply did not exist.......they would return to that state at death because there is no teaching about immortal souls in the Bible.....none whatsoever.
Try to find the words "immortal soul" side by side in any passage of scripture,....you won't, because they don't exist.

So because there is nothing inside a human that goes on living, death actually means what it says.....it is the opposite of life.

What prospects were put before the nation of Israel after their release from Egyptian slavery?....
God told them....
“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad . . . . But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish.. . . . I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life....." (Deuteronomy 30: 15, 17-20)

Any mention of heaven or hell there? No again...just life or death.

What did Jesus teach regarding life after death? He taught resurrection, not immortality of the soul.

Firstly, what is a "soul"? It's not some shadowy thing that lives inside us that continues living after death....that is a satanic lie.
A "soul" is a living breathing creature.......Adam was NOT given a soul when God created him....God breathed the breath (spirit) of life into his lungs which animated his whole being....only then did Adam "become a living soul".

When the breath (spirit) goes out of a soul....it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)
David wrote in Psalm 146:4...."His spirit* goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish."
His son Solomon also believed this....
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10...
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. . . . . 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, (sheol) where you are going."

Solomon also lamented the fact that man has no advantage over the other souls (living creatures) that God made....
Ecclesiastes 3:18-20.....
"I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust. "

What is the "spirit" that all living things have in common? It is the oxygen they breathe.....death occurs in animals in exactly the same way as it occurs in man....breathing stops and the heart ceases to pump oxygen around the body to keep it alive.

What makes mankind unique is that a resurrection is promised only to them, who alone were "made in God's image"...possessing his qualities because man's assignment down here on this beautifully prepared planet Earth was to represent his Creator in taking care of all of it.

Jesus was Jewish and their scriptures taught about resurrection, as Lazarus' sister Martha reiterated to Jesus after her brother had died. (John 11:11-14, 23-24)

So death was not part of that first scenario in Eden because man chose death when he first disobeyed his God. It was the devil who said 'they they would not die'.....God most assuredly said that they would.

Death is death, not a continuation of life in another form, in another place. All the dead must be resurrected.....whether that is to heaven to serve as kings and priests in God's kingdom, or back to life on earth to enjoy the paradise that God intended for the human race at the beginning. (Revelation 20:6; John 5:28-29)
Only then can Revelation 21:2-4 see its fulfillment.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, you said it, but you try to put a comma in it where one doesn't exist.

You said:
"The comma isn't inspired, but if we insist on placing one, it goes before the word "today" because neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that Friday."


What you said there is what American Indians used to claim how white man speaks with a 'forked tongue'. Out of one side of your mouth you admit the comma separation is not in the Greek, but then you admit to 'agreeing' to add one to make the passage read how you want. That is forked tongue speech.

Everyone puts a comma in where none exists, friend! Say it with me:

​

"There was no punctuation, no spacing, no capitalization, no paragraph divisions, no verse divisions, etc., in the original Hebrew and Greek".​

Now, repeat that 150 times and then get back to me, OK?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You said:
"The comma isn't inspired, but if we insist on placing one, it goes before the word "today" because neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that Friday."

He was correct....neither Jesus nor the thief went anywhere that day. Jesus was in his tomb for three days just as he said....just like Jonah was in the belly of the fish.....his resurrection did not take place until three days were up.

The thief was promised "paradise"....not heaven. Where was the first paradise? It was right here on earth.
Jesus plainly said he was returning to his Father's house to prepare a place for his faithful elect.....so where is his Father's house?

The thief was not part of Christ's elect, (those who had proven faithful to death) but he will be among the unrighteous dead whom Jesus will call out of their graves to a period of judgment. (John 5:28-29)

 

[Davy]

Everyone puts a comma in where none exists, friend! Say it with me:

​

"There was no punctuation, no spacing, no capitalization, no paragraph divisions, no verse divisions, etc., in the original Hebrew and Greek".​

Now, repeat that 150 times and then get back to me, OK?

Doesn't matter what you say now, you have already confirmed that you do not believe what Jesus said. And yes, Jesus DID tell the malefactor that he would be with Him in Paradise that day.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Doesn't matter what you say now, you have already confirmed that you do not believe what Jesus said.

I’m afraid that it is you who have failed to believe what Jesus said.....
He said he would be in his grave for three days....which means that he could not have been with the thief “in paradise” that day because both were in their graves......and the thief was not one of the elect and was not promised heaven.

And yes, Jesus DID tell the malefactor that he would be with Him in Paradise that day.

No he didn’t. Jesus made a promise that day....and the thief died knowing that Jesus would remember him in the resurrection, which is what Jews believed in.
Immortality of the soul invalidates the teaching of the resurrection. The soul is mortal and does not continue living after the death of the body (Ezekiel 18:4).....the Jews and later Christians adopted this satanic lie from Greek Platonism. Are you also a victim?

 

[Davy]

Scriptures apart, please tell us in your own words exactly what we christians will experience when we die, and also tell us what somebody like Hitler, Stalin and Saddam will experience when they die..:)

If you stay with what's actually written in God's Word, then you ought to easily know the answer to that.

My posts #15-16 revealed what God's written Word says about that. And either you believe those Scriptures, or you don't. And that also means my coverage of them there, because I did not veer away from the written Scriptures.

 

[DarylFawcett]

If you stay with what's actually written in God's Word, then you ought to easily know the answer to that.

And what's actually also written in God's Word is the following:

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he said to them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus to them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Jesus obviously spoke of the death of Lazarus as a sleep, and that He was going to awake him from that sleep of death, as in resurrect him.

There are lots of other references to what actually happens at death, however, I don't think this one was presented yet. As the Bible doesn't contradict itself, the whole Bible needs to be looked at in relation to this subject of death.

 

[Dropship]

"Today you'll be with me in paradise" Jesus said to the bloke on the cross next to him.
So we die and then wake up in heaven in the blink of an eye, seems simple enough to me..:)
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)

 

[DarylFawcett]

So we die and then wake up in heaven in the blink of an eye, seems simple enough to me..:)
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)

Yes, it will be like that for the dead, as their last thought perished at death, and their next thought, which will seem like an instant after their death, will be at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ as they will be rising up out of their sleep of death to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Davy]

And what's actually also written in God's Word is the following:

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he said to them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus to them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Jesus obviously spoke of the death of Lazarus as a sleep, and that He was going to awake him from that sleep of death, as in resurrect him.

There are lots of other references to what actually happens at death, however, I don't think this one was presented yet. As the Bible doesn't contradict itself, the whole Bible needs to be looked at in relation to this subject of death.

The Lazarus of John 11 is NOT THE SAME Lazarus of Luke 16, so it is error to try and make them sound like the same person.

 

[DarylFawcett]

The Lazarus of John 11 is NOT THE SAME Lazarus of Luke 16, so it is error to try and make them sound like the same person.

Who is making a comparison? I wasn't even thinking of that.

 

[Davy]

Who is making a comparison? I wasn't even thinking of that.

Yeah right! which is why you were quoting from JOHN 11, and not Luke 16 where Jesus actually gave the story of Lazarus and the rich man regarding Paradise and hell.

 

[Angelina]

It happens the following: the soul is taken to be judged in the aerial toll houses, where the torment is so extremely much, the demons beating the dead person for his sins, while angels trying to take the soul from their hands to heaven. But if the angels win, in heaven the joy is unimaginable. Of course the decision is based on what good works and what sins the soul have. While in fact angels and demons alone judge the soul, it is normal to be said God judges the soul. This is most terriying and painful also the death itself is painful. In each toll house are judged specific sins, and if have good works and less sins the soul continue to the next toll house, after the last toll house the soul enters heaven.

Your theology is not biblical. Where in the bible does it say that there are aerial toll houses? What church do you belong to or are you from other faiths?

 

[DarylFawcett]

Never heard of "toll houses" before so googled it and discovered the following;

Aerial toll houses (also called "telonia", from the Greek: τελωνεία / telonia, customs) are a belief held by some in the Eastern Orthodox Church which states that "following a person's death the soul leaves the body, and is escorted to God by angels. During this journey the soul passes through an aerial realm, which is inhabited by wicked spirits (Ephesians 6:12). The soul encounters these demons at various points referred to as toll-houses where the demons then attempt to accuse it of sin and, if possible, drag the soul into hell."[1]

A number of the Eastern Orthodox saints, modern elders and theologians have openly endorsed it, but some theologians and bishops have condemned it as heretical and gnostic in origin.[2

 

[DarylFawcett]

Never heard of "toll houses" before so googled it and discovered the following;

Aerial toll houses (also called "telonia", from the Greek: τελωνεία / telonia, customs) are a belief held by some in the Eastern Orthodox Church which states that "following a person's death the soul leaves the body, and is escorted to God by angels. During this journey the soul passes through an aerial realm, which is inhabited by wicked spirits (Ephesians 6:12). The soul encounters these demons at various points referred to as toll-houses where the demons then attempt to accuse it of sin and, if possible, drag the soul into hell."[1]

A number of the Eastern Orthodox saints, modern elders and theologians have openly endorsed it, but some theologians and bishops have condemned it as heretical and gnostic in origin.[2

I agree that this is totally not biblical.