What does the Bible say about when Jesus Christ would return?

[MatthewG]

What is all this about the Bible being a liar? Let's dial this down, shall we?

Of course it's truth.

Matthew 24:27-31 KJV
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

These things will indeed happen. "All the tribes of the earth" . . . "shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory".

Every eye will see Him.

Matthew 24:34 KJV
34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

"generation" here can mean: All born at a certain time. All alive at a certain time. All who are born from a certain group.

Matthew 24:21-22 KJV
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus promised that humanity would not be allowed to be completely destroy for the sake of the "chosen". Israel was of course the chosen nation from among the rest, so there was the chosen nation, and the gentiles - all the rest.

Having prophesied the preservation of the Jews, Jesus doubles down on that promise,

"this generation shall not pass" until all be fulfilled. The Jews shall not be completely destroyed before Jesus comes to put a stop to the killing.

No, the Bible is not a liar, and Jesus will come to end the great tribulation and rescue His people.

Zechariah 13:7-9 KJV
7) Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8) And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9) And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Jesus will rescue His remnant of Isreal by His timely return.

Much love!

I read what you had to say, however what is it? It hasn’t happened yet though in your opinion?

Generation is also a period of time: it also noted as 40 years worth of time. I’m 31 now, by the time I hit 40 my generation is pretty much over with. The world I grew up in and learned from seems to be gone in the days of being younger. My brother just hit 41 recently, his generation of what he lived and done from when he was young is now over.

The place where God had been worshiped, and the temple was there with the sacrifices and everything was what Generations of the Old Testament pertaining with all of Israel in which they had to do and deal with God.

Jesus talks about a coming time of desolation and destruction headed towards Israel for one the outside it looked beautiful however inside of the city it was dead to the things of God.

The nation of Israel killed the messiah!

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”


“saying, ‘Did not we strictly command you not to teach in this name? and lo, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and ye intend to bring upon us the blood of this man.’ And Peter and the apostles answering, said, ‘To obey God it behoveth, rather than men; and the God of our fathers did raise up Jesus, whom ye slew ( the ones speaking to Peter ), having hanged upon a tree;”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭5:28-30‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

 

[marks]

Remember the parable of the lot of land that was rented out to a certain people, and there had been people sent to receive payment from the renters. They killed the prophets. The Renter, decided to send his son, in hopes they would respect him… those renters of the Renter. Kill the son of God.

What do you think God would do to those who killed the son of God?

Jeremiah 31:37 KJV
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:28-29 KJV
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

you won’t have to worry about what others may suggest if you have taken the time to do the studying yourself.

Indeed! And as I read and study the Bible, these are things I find, and many more like them.

You put a lot on your interpretation of "generation". Do you understand that all three meanings I've given are correct meanings of that word?

It speaks of a "generation" in terms of "to generate". You generate electricity, therefore, electricty is your generation. Something generated. This word generation, genea, works that way. It is a generation that was generated at a given time, "the Baby Boomers", or "Gen X", a time limited designation. It is a generation that were generated in a given era, "everybody alive now". It is a generation that was generated from a given source, "the Aztecs", "the Jews", an ethnic designation.

Any of these are correct usage of the word, to be understood according to the context, and other parallel passages.

When read "this generation shall not pass away" you have to ask, which is the correct meaning here?

If you understand this as "the people alive in Jesus' day", then how do you interpret that everyone will see Him? That they won't really "see" Him?

I find it makes more sense to me to believe that every eye will in fact see Him, that He will in fact come in power and great glory, that He will in fact gather all His chosen nation back to their promised land, never to be turned out again, and that "this generation" refers to what I've given as the 3rd definition, those of a common ethnic generation, the Jews.

There is an accurate meaning of generation that harmonizes with the straightfoward meaning of the rest of the passage. It seems so very clear to me that Jesus will return to rescue His people at the end of this age.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Your view on generation, like I said I believe it’s a literal 40 year time. Is that something you would take in consideration as well? @marks?

I’ll share this information with you might find interesting.


““And we apostles are witnesses of all he did throughout Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him to life on the third day. Then God allowed him to appear, not to the general public, but to us whom God had chosen in advance to be his witnesses. We were those who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he ordered us to preach everywhere and to testify that Jesus is the one appointed by God to be the judge of all—the living and the dead.”
‭‭Acts of the Apostles‬ ‭10:39-42‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[marks]

May God richly bless you my friend. What I want is to please God. I will be content with any blessing He wants to offer.

May God richly bless you also!

I cannot focus right now. My wife is sick in bed and the burden of our physical move this Friday is almost overwhelming me. Thank God for caring children and grandchildren.

I can't imagine!

Heavenly Father, I pray for Amadeus and his wife and family. Please bring Your peace to their hearts, strength to their bodies, and safety as they do this work. Please grant them your wisdom as they make this move. And healing for Mrs. Amadeus! I ask You in Jesus' Name!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Your view on generation, like I said I believe it’s a literal 40 year time. Is that something you would take in consideration as well? @marks?

I’ll share this information with you might find interesting.


““And we apostles are witnesses of all he did throughout Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him to life on the third day. Then God allowed him to appear, not to the general public, but to us whom God had chosen in advance to be his witnesses. We were those who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he ordered us to preach everywhere and to testify that Jesus is the one appointed by God to be the judge of all—the living and the dead.”
‭‭Acts of the Apostles‬ ‭10:39-42‬ ‭NLT‬‬

I've considered this for some time, in fact.

There is a lot of debate over "how long is a Biblical generation?" I could make arguments for 20 years, 40 years, 70 years, 80 years, 100 years, and 120 years. Each of those has some measure of support in the Bible.

That's one question that needs be answered for those to whom this means "a generation as in those alive today, or those of a certain age group".

That's been an ongoing dispute among those who see "the budding of the olive tree" to indicate the restoration of Israel in 1948. How long is "a generation"?

This is not an issue when we understand genea here to refer to the ethic group of the Jews.

For myself, I prefer to not use the NLT for more serious study. I think it can be helpful to unravel difficult passages, but I prefer more literal readings.

Acts 10:39-42 KJV
39) And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40) Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41) Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42) And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Compare the two readings here. Are they the same thing?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

This is not an issue when we understand genea here to refer to the ethic group of the Jews.

Yes. The meaning of "generation" in this context is the nation of Israel. We know that many remarks of Christ were cryptic. What Jesus saw was the nation of Israel being dispersed to the far corners of the earth in AD 70, and then the founding of the secular-nation state of Israel in 1948 (in unbelief). This is not the regathering of Jews to Israel by God (which will happen after the Second Coming of Christ), but simply the fact that Israel as nation will be existing on earth when Christ returns.

In another thread it is being postulated that God will have nothing more to do with Jerusalem. Well that is total nonsense, since Jerusalem is an eternal city according to Scripture. Of course, it needs to be cleansed, redeemed, and restored. God sees it as Sodom and Egypt today, but one day He will see it as "the City of the Great King".

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t believe 1948 has anything to do with the return of Jesus.

That is getting way far out there in my opinion.

Who pierced Jesus though? @marks?
Who is gonna see? The audience around them was waiting on the appearing of the Lord?

Gotta take the context for what it is… who had Jesus killed?


Do you believe you are responsible for Jesus and his death?

Have you ever heard someone tell you “We were the ones who had him slain on the cross, us in America, or Britain, or Australia?”

 

[MatthewG]

Yes. The meaning of "generation" in this context is the nation of Israel. We know that many remarks of Christ were cryptic. What Jesus saw was the nation of Israel being dispersed to the far corners of the earth in AD 70, and then the founding of the secular-nation state of Israel in 1948 (in unbelief). This is not the regathering of Jews to Israel by God (which will happen after the Second Coming of Christ), but simply the fact that Israel as nation will be existing on earth when Christ returns.

In another thread it is being postulated that God will have nothing more to do with Jerusalem. Well that is total nonsense, since Jerusalem is an eternal city according to Scripture. Of course, it needs to be cleansed, redeemed, and restored. God sees it as Sodom and Egypt today, but one day He will see it as "the City of the Great King".

What do you mean what Jesus says is cryptic? Doesn’t he speak plainly to his disciples?

I believe God had nothing to do with Israel materially anymore, however people who are believers in the gospel of Christ are part of the heavenly kingdom of Jerusalem on High.

 

[MatthewG]

“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven;

and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast,

and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven,

with power and much glory;

and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet,

and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from

the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

‘And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer [is] nigh, so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh — at the doors.

Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30-34‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Jesus talks to his disciples openly and honestly telling them the truth. He isn’t trying say “Those who are in American, Britain, or Australia” he speaks specifically about the tribes.

Are the tribes related to the twelve tribes of Israel and if it does pertain to it, how can we force the agenda on the entire world if the context is speaking specifically about a precise place in time which Jesus claims that the temple would be destroyed? (Consider Matthew 21 all the way through to Matthew 24) for a fuller picture.

It’s hard to decipher all of these things to some degree however I do not believe it is impossible.

Be encouraged and take care,
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Truth7t7]

Thank you all for commenting.

None of these things was possible to happen in the generation which lived among Jesus at the time?

Do you guys suggest dual prophecy?

It's your "Opinion" Jesus fulfilled whatever prophecy in the generation that lived among Jesus

It's my "Opinion" and that of those in the vast majority of Christianity, that believe and teach, Jesus will return in the "Future" visible in the heavens

It's my "Opinion" that those in denial of the Lords "Future" visible return, and a "Future" resurrection of the dead in Christ, are outside of Orthodox Christianity

The Lords "Future" second coming and the "Future" resurrection of the dead in Christ are "Pillars" of the Christian faith and "Doctrine"

Romans 16:17-18KJV
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[marks]

Yes. The meaning of "generation" in this context is the nation of Israel. We know that many remarks of Christ were cryptic. What Jesus saw was the nation of Israel being dispersed to the far corners of the earth in AD 70, and then the founding of the secular-nation state of Israel in 1948 (in unbelief). This is not the regathering of Jews to Israel by God (which will happen after the Second Coming of Christ), but simply the fact that Israel as nation will be existing on earth when Christ returns.

In another thread it is being postulated that God will have nothing more to do with Jerusalem. Well that is total nonsense, since Jerusalem is an eternal city according to Scripture. Of course, it needs to be cleansed, redeemed, and restored. God sees it as Sodom and Egypt today, but one day He will see it as "the City of the Great King".

There is a formula I've seen derived from Ezekiel and Leviticus that puts Israel back under their own sovereignty in 1948, some hold to the day they declared statehood.

Something based on the 430 days, a day for a year the Ezekiel lay on his side, minus the 70 years captivity, the remainder X7 for their continued disobedience, and when converted to Gregorian calender, takes you from the end of the captivity to 1948. Are you familiar with that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don’t believe 1948 has anything to do with the return of Jesus.

Zechariah 12:1-3 KJV
1) The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2) Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3) And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Jerusalem, in Israel, is where Jesus returns to.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Why draw such conclusions at all about another person? What do you think the Apostle Paul meant by this?

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

One more try:

Consider what time is to man and then consider what it is to God.
Consider what Jesus was in his beginning as a man and then consider what we were in our beginning at natural birth to our mothers.
What were the differences... but then:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" I John 3:2

How much like him are we now? Are we growing in and toward God? How much like him can we be?

"Clearly teaches"? Did that come from something you learned from others, or from your own logical mind? Do you suppose that the most intelligent [highest I.Q.] people and the best students [honor rolls in secular schools] are also always the closest to God? Consider the following NT and OT verses:

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Tim 2:15

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

What is the difference? What would prevent a person from become weary in his flesh rather than lifted up by God from a whole lot of Bible study?

How about this?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Of course, if a person who has received the Holy Spirit but regularly or routinely quenches the Spirit in favor of the workings of his logical carnal mind, he is likely to have at best a mixed message. Is not that so?

Why do you think the Apostle Paul wrote this verse?

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Rom 8:13

Not one word in your long drawn speech, diminishes the fact of the "Future" resurrection of the dead in Christ, as scripture clearly teaches below

Jesus Christ will return in the "Future" visibly in the heavens, at this time the dead in Christ will be "Resurrected" just as Jesus Christ, who is the first fruit of the resurrection to be seen, a literal tangible body of flesh and bone

1 Corinthians 15
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[MatthewG]

Zechariah 12:1-3 KJV
1) The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2) Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3) And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Jerusalem, in Israel, is where Jesus returns to.

Much love!

Hello my brother Mark,

thank you for continue to converse with me.

You remind me of what Jesus said to his disciples on the mount of olives in Luke.


“‘And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Who will see? Who is Jesus talking to?

 

[marks]

I believe God had nothing to do with Israel materially anymore,

Why would God not have anything to do with Israel?

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

I believe this is true as stated. What could they do to be cast off, considering that God said He would not cast them off for "all that they have done." That they would remain a nation before Him forever.

I'm not seeing any ambiguity here about who God is addressing as Israel. This is His chosen nation, selected from among the others, the others collectively known as "the Gentiles". Israel will remain a nation, and He will not cast them out.

Romans 11:1-2 KJV
1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

His people, whom God has not cast out, these are the Israelites, descended from Abraham.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Not one word in your long drawn speech, diminishes the fact of the "Future" resurrection of the dead in Christ, as scripture clearly teaches below

Jesus Christ will return in the "Future" visibly in the heavens, at this time the dead in Christ will be "Resurrected" just as Jesus Christ, who is the first fruit of the resurrection to be seen, a literal tangible body of flesh and bone

1 Corinthians 15
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The first fruits wouldn’t that have something to do with those who had a role in spreading the gospel and being first to have access to faith?

What does firstfruits mean?

 

[amadeus]

Not one word in your long drawn speech, diminishes the fact of the "Future" resurrection of the dead in Christ, as scripture clearly teaches below

Jesus Christ will return in the "Future" visibly in the heavens, at this time the dead in Christ will be "Resurrected" just as Jesus Christ, who is the first fruit of the resurrection to be seen, a literal tangible body of flesh and bone

1 Corinthians 15
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Like so many you are not really interested in discussion or in exchange of ideas or in helping anyone to come to God. You want to do rather an impossible thing for any man alone.

 

[MatthewG]

Why would God not have anything to do with Israel?

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

I believe this is true as stated. What could they do to be cast off, considering that God said He would not cast them off for "all that they have done." That they would remain a nation before Him forever.

I'm not seeing any ambiguity here about who God is addressing as Israel. This is His chosen nation, selected from among the others, the others collectively known as "the Gentiles". Israel will remain a nation, and He will not cast them out.

Romans 11:1-2 KJV
1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

His people, whom God has not cast out, these are the Israelites, descended from Abraham.

Much love!

Being part of the spiritual kingdom now today thought Marks. Do I need to show up to Jerusalem and worship!? Nope, to worship God now is to worship God in spirit and truth.

I believe that in the context of the Gospels, as I shared prior Luke 21:20 shows the destruction that was going to come upon Jerusalem at its desolation.

I don’t have any fear that me really digging and trusting Jesus saying and doing what he had done that I am in anyway wrong in my presented case though we may not know how to answer some questions the fact is the wrath of God was coming upon the nation Israel in that day and age…

I don’t care if people deny that or not, it still is factually and apparently evident in history that Jerusalem had fallen.

 

[marks]

Hello my brother Mark,

thank you for continue to converse with me.

You remind me of what Jesus said to his disciples on the mount of olives in Luke.


“‘And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Who will see? Who is Jesus talking to?

I believe this refers to the Romans in 70 AD.

And when you examine the order of things in this prophecy compared to Matthew's prophecy, you will see, Bear with me on the quotes, just follow the parts I bold and color

Luke 21:7-27 KJV
7) And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8) And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9) But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10) Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12) But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19) In your patience possess ye your souls.
20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

First Jesus gives much the same introduction to the signs of the end as in Matthew, but here He says, "but before all these", and goes on to prophecy persecutions and so forth, culminating in the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies, leading to the captivity of Israel into all nations. Then He returns to His prophecy of His coming in power and glory.

In Matthew,

Matthew 24:4-16 KJV
4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8) All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Jesus continues in a single prophetic narrative without that same sort of paranthetical, "but before all this", as He goes on to prophesy the Abomination of Desolation and subsequent great tribulation, affecting all life on the planet. "No flesh would survive."

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

1,000,000 Jewish people died that day. @marks. The genealogy, the priest hoods, the temple, all material religion of the nation of Israel and the heaven and earth they knew was destroyed… it no longer is like it was 2000 years ago.

That doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t still desire to learn and share the gospel message with others, by no means my friend. I just desired to show people to think critically and to think for themselves and try to push against any man made traditions they have been taught.

I would not be sharing any of these things if I believed they were false… and untrue for the Bible presents the case for what is true and what is for the context of the people written prior before us being born… nearly 2000 years later.

People try to assert the Bible into their own modern day and it was never written for them.

It was written for the Jewish people, who had the Old Testament after moses had lived a long life and wrote it all down to pass on the information to the next generation of people.

The apostlic record records Jesus and what he had came to do, and all the Old Testament scriptures were fulfilled, even about those against the Pharisees and scribes. Jesus quotes Isiah at them as a judgement.

The whole historical account of the Bible Old Testament deals primarily with the Jewish people… yet people desire to make it for today in modern America by claiming dual prophecy and stuff like that, and just claiming Jesus is going to return now today without looking in to what the Bible has to say about it.

There are still more verses that were never mentioned here that even more emphasize the fact for the return to them then in that age.

Be encouraged anyone, reading,
God bless