What does it mean to be born again?

[quietthinker]

That is your assumption. You (like Episkopos) are assuming that anyone who holds to a doctrine of imputed righteousness must by definition be ignoring the believer's responsibility under the new covenant, but that is not the case. And assuming that this doctrine therefore must be the cause of it. But remember in the parable of the talents, that one servant who was given one talent to invest.....he truly was given a talent but the fault was on him for not investing it. It wasn't the fault of the talent. It's on us what we do or don't do with the gift we have been given, and the attitude we hold to. Whether we are working out our salvation with fear and trembling and being humble and grateful for the gift or whether we are just sitting on our laurels, being smug and taking salvation for granted.

I believe it simply boils down to this: the Shepherd of our souls is leading us. We need to be following Him where/how He is leading and where/how He is leading us is to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We are to obey His leading and say not my will but thine be done, without violating His righteousness when He leads us through various trials and temptations. We are HIS workmanship, but only if we are allowing Him and obeying Him as He works or attempts to work on us. Many are not following Him, the cloud and pillar of fire, but they are remaining camped out basking on the shore of the Red Sea instead pulling up stakes and moving on and following...going on to perfection.

So that is how I see this and I believe I'm in company with others here who see it much the same. So I would ask that you all please stop making assumptions about those who defend the doctrine of imputed righteousness. Unfortunately that is not convenient for those who want to blame the doctrine for being the cause of people being like the Laodiceans, when really the cause is the neglect of all those other teachings that speak of our responsibilities, as well as their own hearts leading them astray. It's not the fault of the gift.

heyyyy, Lizbeth, I'm sorry but you've run off here. You must be thinking of somebody else. I've said zilch about imputed, imparted anything. I'll leave that to the well read, well informed, prolific in words and opinions to break their subjective little minds over. That said, quoting from your post #1163 '...And without honest objectivity and accountability, there can't be any progress'. I wholeheartedly agree with :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I cannot put down this writer! Kierkegaard. At every page, he becomes relevant to my present life and circumstances. How odd is that?
Here he speaks of the difference between admirers and followers:

“…because of the follower’s life, it will become evident who the admirers are, for the admirers will become agitated with him.”

I have more friends who are dead than living...

 

[Azim]

I cannot put down this writer! Kierkegaard. At every page, he becomes relevant to my present life and circumstances. How odd is that?
Here he speaks of the difference between admirers and followers:

“…because of the follower’s life, it will become evident who the admirers are, for the admirers will become agitated with him.”

I have more friends who are dead than living...

I just googled him up now. Found this quote by Kierkegaard, which feels fitting for this thread:

A man who as a physical being is always turned toward the outside, thinking that his happiness lies outside him, finally turns inward and discovers that the source is within him.

 

[Lizbeth]

For those who understand the ways of God...Jacob is the inner man and Esau...the twin...is the outer man.


Yes.


Not all believers. This is where you are making a blanket dogmatic statement that shows a lack of looking at the equation. Only half of believers are taken...the other half rejected. Only a small remnant are saints. Then there are the righteous (who don't see themselves as righteous because of humility and godly fear)...then there are those who are rejected (who will be in shock since they considered themselves to be righteous)


No partiality with God. We reap as WE sow.


If we listen, yes.

Actually the wrath of God is not on unbelievers but on those who profane His holy name. Only believers can do that. You have to look deeper than just "saved/ not-saved" to get at the truth.

The bible doesn't agree with you.


Jhn 3:33-36

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1Jo 5:19

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

When are you going to understand that God doesn’t ever call sinners righteous….unbelievers are said by God to be dead in their sins and walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air by the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Does that sound like He is calling any unbelievers righteous? No He doesn’t call them even a tiny bit righteous, He calls them LOST and SINNERS and CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE LYING IN WICKEDNESS….CHILDREN OF WRATH BY NATURE. Their sins have separated them from God and there is no being reconciled back to God without Christ and receiving a NEW NATURE from Him. Nobody can be saved by their own righteousness….what a FALSE and upside down gospel that is being preached which leaves people to perish in their sins. It’s a vain imagination that EXALTS itself against the knowledge of God. Remember Lucifer exalting his throne above the stars of God….this is that spirit.

Jesus Himself said that if anyone tries to climb into the sheepfold BY ANY OTHER WAY than by the sheep gate, of which Jesus is that gate, he is a THIEF AND A ROBBER.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh, I just want to hug the man! I hope he wrote lots of books for after the one I’m reading is finished!

 

[amigo de christo]

The bible doesn't agree with you.


Jhn 3:33-36

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1Jo 5:19

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

When are you going to understand that God doesn’t ever call sinners righteous….unbelievers are said by God to be dead in their sins and walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air by the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Does that sound like He is calling any unbelievers righteous? No He doesn’t call them even a tiny bit righteous, He calls them LOST and SINNERS and CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE LYING IN WICKEDNESS….CHILDREN OF WRATH BY NATURE. Their sins have separated them from God and there is no being reconciled back to God without Christ and receiving a NEW NATURE from Him. Nobody can be saved by their own righteousness….what a FALSE and upside down gospel that is being preached which leaves people to perish in their sins. It’s a vain imagination that EXALTS itself against the knowledge of God. Remember Lucifer exalting his throne above the stars of God….this is that spirit.

Jesus Himself said that if anyone tries to climb into the sheepfold BY ANY OTHER WAY than by the sheep gate, of which Jesus is that gate, he is a THIEF AND A ROBBER.

SPOT ON RIGHT DEAR SISTER . we have the workers of inclusvism amongst us . IT must be exposed . POINT TO CHRIST
always to the end my dear sister . This other go spell is fast moving and taking many captive to its lie
But the lambs know better and we shall contend for the true faith , the glorious gospel of our LORD till the last breath .

 

[amigo de christo]

The bible doesn't agree with you.


Jhn 3:33-36

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1Jo 5:19

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

When are you going to understand that God doesn’t ever call sinners righteous….unbelievers are said by God to be dead in their sins and walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air by the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Does that sound like He is calling any unbelievers righteous? No He doesn’t call them even a tiny bit righteous, He calls them LOST and SINNERS and CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE LYING IN WICKEDNESS….CHILDREN OF WRATH BY NATURE. Their sins have separated them from God and there is no being reconciled back to God without Christ and receiving a NEW NATURE from Him. Nobody can be saved by their own righteousness….what a FALSE and upside down gospel that is being preached which leaves people to perish in their sins. It’s a vain imagination that EXALTS itself against the knowledge of God. Remember Lucifer exalting his throne above the stars of God….this is that spirit.

Jesus Himself said that if anyone tries to climb into the sheepfold BY ANY OTHER WAY than by the sheep gate, of which Jesus is that gate, he is a THIEF AND A ROBBER.

A THEIF and a ROBBER . spot on right dear sister , so know we know who authors this many path lie to GOD .
The devil did . And he knew and knows how to try and make it seem loving and good , when in truth its a lie
that saves none . Keep pointing to CHRIST dear sister and do so till the last breath

 

[Keturah]

The bible doesn't agree with you.


Jhn 3:33-36

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1Jo 5:19

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

When are you going to understand that God doesn’t ever call sinners righteous….unbelievers are said by God to be dead in their sins and walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air by the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Does that sound like He is calling any unbelievers righteous? No He doesn’t call them even a tiny bit righteous, He calls them LOST and SINNERS and CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE LYING IN WICKEDNESS….CHILDREN OF WRATH BY NATURE. Their sins have separated them from God and there is no being reconciled back to God without Christ and receiving a NEW NATURE from Him. Nobody can be saved by their own righteousness….what a FALSE and upside down gospel that is being preached which leaves people to perish in their sins. It’s a vain imagination that EXALTS itself against the knowledge of God. Remember Lucifer exalting his throne above the stars of God….this is that spirit.

Jesus Himself said that if anyone tries to climb into the sheepfold BY ANY OTHER WAY than by the sheep gate, of which Jesus is that gate, he is a THIEF AND A ROBBER.

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 30158

True lambs point to Christ for all else is but vainity in the winds . Yes indeed dear sister . Praise be to the glorious Lord .
The lambs shall contend for the true faith till the last and final breath .

 

[Episkopos]

The bible doesn't agree with you.


Jhn 3:33-36

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1Jo 5:19

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

When are you going to understand that God doesn’t ever call sinners righteous….unbelievers are said by God to be dead in their sins and walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air by the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Does that sound like He is calling any unbelievers righteous? No He doesn’t call them even a tiny bit righteous, He calls them LOST and SINNERS and CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE LYING IN WICKEDNESS….CHILDREN OF WRATH BY NATURE. Their sins have separated them from God and there is no being reconciled back to God without Christ and receiving a NEW NATURE from Him. Nobody can be saved by their own righteousness….what a FALSE and upside down gospel that is being preached which leaves people to perish in their sins. It’s a vain imagination that EXALTS itself against the knowledge of God. Remember Lucifer exalting his throne above the stars of God….this is that spirit.

Jesus Himself said that if anyone tries to climb into the sheepfold BY ANY OTHER WAY than by the sheep gate, of which Jesus is that gate, he is a THIEF AND A ROBBER.

I can cherry pick verses too...AND I understand their context. :)

For the umpteenth time.....you have to see the difference between holiness and righteousness. The people of Israel (Judea) saw Jesus do His mighty works....they will be judged against holiness. Wrath comes on those who hate Jesus. That 's the severity of God....which you like to quote for some reason.

But look at the goodness of God and His mercy. (you could learn a lot about that)

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him.


Do you deny the truth that Peter is speaking? Would you disavow God's mercy for your sense of justice?

Job 40:8 “Will you also disannul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you may be righteous?”

 

[amigo de christo]

I can cherry pick verses too...AND I understand their context. :)

For the umpteenth time.....you have to see the difference between holiness and righteousness. The people of Israel saw Jesus do His mighty works....they will be judged against holiness. Wrath comes on those who hate Jesus. That 's the severity of God....which you like to quote for some reason.

But look at the goodness of God and His mercy. (you could learn a lot about that)

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him.

Wrath does come against those who hate JESUS . Jesus even said those who hate ME keep not my sayings .
So i suggest and suggest highly that we better start learning exactly what JESUS we think we been following .
Who we love , who we obey IS WHOSE we are and who we truly do love .
But another jesus has been presented , and this jesus seems to pick and choose the JESUS of said bibles teachings .
An example .
A man follows some of His teachings , YEt the teachings that contradict The heart of that man ,
HE follows the jesus who then accepts the mans sins as valid and good .
In other words they are following a jesus , that while it will speak some truths
IT WONT speak agaisnt their own lusts and dark desires .
Example . WE have the LOVE of money prosperity gospel jesus , which AINT JESUS
yet it might speak against homosexuality or some other sins .
WE have the dark rainbow jesus , it might speak against the heaping up of money wealth n health
But it accepts Homosexuality .
I GOT NEWS NEITHER ONE IS JESUS . I have long watched
the liberal and the conservative churches and how they pick and choose and yet attack the other side who did what they saw as wrong .
WHEN IN TRUTH , THEY ALL WRONG . we cant serve a jesus . IT HAS TO BE THE JESUS and that one can easily
be found IN SAID BIBLE . we better make sure our jesus aint another jesus .
And now both sides seem to be uniting under even GREATER darkness
buying more into the many path to GOD lie . Seems like a final delusion to UNITE the deceived has arrived and thrived
RIGHT in the middle of all camps now . WE better return to the bible and stop heeding the many and start learning
THE JESUS , the CHRIST of that bible . Or folks wont be liking what they hear on HIS DAY . Not one little bit .

 

[Episkopos]

Wrath does come against those who hate JESUS . Jesus even said those who hate ME keep not my sayings .
So i suggest and suggest highly that we better start learning exactly what JESUS we think we been following .
Who we love , who we obey IS WHOSE we are and who we truly do love .
But another jesus has been presented , and this jesus seems to pick and choose the JESUS of said bibles teachings .
An example .
A man follows some of His teachings , YEt the teachings that contradict The heart of that man ,
HE follows the jesus who then accepts the mans sins as valid and good .
In other words they are following a jesus , that while it will speak some truths
IT WONT speak agaisnt their own lusts and dark desires .
Example . WE have the LOVE of money prosperity gospel jesus , which AINT JESUS
yet it might speak against homosexuality or some other sins .
WE have the dark rainbow jesus , it might speak against the heaping up of money wealth n health
But it accepts Homosexuality .
I GOT NEWS NEITHER ONE IS JESUS . I have long watched
the liberal and the conservative churches and how they pick and choose and yet attack the other side who did what they saw as wrong .
WHEN IN TRUTH , THEY ALL WRONG . we cant serve a jesus . IT HAS TO BE THE JESUS and that one can easily
be found IN SAID BIBLE . we better make sure our jesus aint another jesus .
And now both sides seem to be uniting under even GREATER darkness
buying more into the many path to GOD lie . Seems like a final delusion to UNITE the deceived has arrived and thrived
RIGHT in the middle of all camps now . WE better return to the bible and stop heeding the many and start learning
THE JESUS , the CHRIST of that bible . Or folks wont be liking what they hear on HIS DAY . Not one little bit .

As you judge so you will be judged. You reap as you sow. Check it out.

 

[amigo de christo]

As you judge so you will be judged. You reap as you sow. Check it out.

All taken out of text to either support evil or stop those who would warn out .
Paul seemed to have no problem with warning the churches big time and saying
exactly who wont INHERIT the KINGDOM . Yet today if we do that , ITS JUDGE NOT .
You all have no idea what judge not even means . No one is trying to judge anyone by the letter of the law .
Its not like i am saying kill those who sin . This is like insanity .
the church keeps doing the same thing over and over again , wrapping it up under a new name
and yet all its done is leavend the churches worse and worse .
yalls idea of evangelism aint working , RATHER its transforming churches into something that no longer
even follows the GOD , the CHRIST but rather the dark one .
Its not a sin to follow the pattern left to us in the bible . Its not a sin to warn folks to cease from sin .
Its not a sin to call sin a sin and to get those in the church to REPENT OF SAID SIN or put them out till they do .
THAT IS NOT SIN , its what paul did and others did and JESUS taught us to do .
JUDGE NOT of today has become a platform for evil and an agent to be used against the truth and those who bring it .
So much for that , cause it dont work and it has destroyed and leavened the churches right up .

 

[amigo de christo]

This church age sure knows at least one verse in the bible , cause its the most often verse
heard when one tries to correct sin . JUDGE NOT . they seem to have that one down to a T
or i should say an E , as in E for ERROR . cause they have taken JUDGE NOT out of text
in order to silence correction , truth and they give a big fat welcome seat to sin and the embracing of certain sins .
Till now they even accept everyones religoin and mindset as a way or path to GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

As you judge so you will be judged. You reap as you sow. Check it out.

We do reap what we sow and GOD wont be mocked either . IF one sows to the flesh he will of the flesh reap corruption .
So why do churches sow to the flesh and justify it all in the name of love . THEY gonna reap what they have sown .
I am just trying to remind folks NOT to sow to said flesh . and not to follow another jesus or another gospel .
LETS see , are you gonna tell paul judge not
WHEN he wrote , and i quoate , But if even WE or an angel or any other preaches unto you
any OTHER GOSPEL , let him be accursed . yall would judge CHRIST as being non loving and jugmental
and you all would judge every last apostel as being haters and judgmental if they showed up here today
preaching all the truth they once did . As i said we better make sure we follow the JESUS of the bible
and not rather this other image , this other jesus , this other go spell getting taught under the guise of HIS NAME

 

[amigo de christo]

Many in this generation would tell JESUS , hey man you dont know GOD , you dont know JESUS DUDE , you hateful .
They got no idea the devil has sown a false love right into their hearts which has turned them from the ONE and only CHRIST
who could have saved them and right unto another image of what they think is the Christ that saves .
Devil knows how to say LOVE too , HE knows how to say many things , but he sows lies right in the middle of it all

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah…more Soren.
“When one preaches Christianity in such a way that the echo answers: “Glorious, profound, brilliant, articulate Christian, you should be exalted with high praise,” know that this signifies that this preaching is a base lie. Though it is not absolutely cer tain that he who walks with chains around his ankles is in fact a criminal (for there are many cases when the powers that be have condemned an innocent man), it is eternally certain that he who by preaching Christianity wins honor and prestige is a liar, a deceiver, who at one point or another has falsified the truth. It is simple: It is impossible to preach Christianity in truth with out having to suffer for it in this world.
When one preaches Christianity in such a way that the echo answers, “He is mad,” or “What nonsense,” know then there are considerable elements of truth in his preaching. However, this is still not the Christianity of the New Testament. He may have hit the mark, but he does not press hard enough, especially not by the preaching of his life.
But when one preaches Christianity in such a way that the echo answers, “Away with that man, he does not deserve to live,” know that this is the Christianity of the New Testament. “

 

[Brakelite]

You misunderstood....Epi said Jews were refusing Christ back in the time of the Reformation because of Luther's flawed theology. I'm talking about the flawed theology of someone witnessing to Jews by debating theology with them.

Luther would have been a breath of fresh air compared to the Jews recent experiences at the hands of Catholicism.

Righteousness, therefore, is a covenantal, reciprocal action between God and His highest creation, based on the character of God, the work of Christ, and the enabling of the Spirit, to which each individual must personally and continually respond appropriately.

While I agree that we must respond favorably to God's covenant promises in order to receive them, the covenants nevertheless are one way promises, to be received by faith. God does not expect our promises in return...

for the Catholics it is a subjective genitive, which is the process of becoming more like God [experiential progressive sanctification]

I would caution using Catholic teachings of
justification/sanctification in order to justify Bible doctrine. When a Catholic speaks of those things it is chalk and cheese when compared to protestant hermeneutics, particularly in how they source those concepts... For them Jesus plays no part in the process, which is why their system is Antichrist.

Johann would disagree. He's very impressed by the human intellect, trying to impress people with his own copy-paste abilities...

You can't seem to help yourself huh.

You are so certain He is a respecter of your person!

And you follow Epi in reading others hearts.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And you follow Epi in reading others hearts.

I will answer you one time and then if you persist in your degradation I will add you in with the attention seekers I have vowed not to please.
It was not her heart that I read. It was the words from her own mouth that I read.

 

[Brakelite]

The truth is embedded in their own scriptures. It takes someone to point them out. God backs up the truth.

They don't believe their own scriptures, they didn't in Jesus day, and their apostasy is only deepening. That does not mean they cannot come to Christ, but I don't think it will be through their reading of scripture. It'll be as the NT stipulates... Through preaching.