What does it mean to be born again?

[Lizbeth]

I hope this is making an impression on you, that there is this very significant passage of Scripture specifically addressing these things that you will not engage with.

Much love!

Yes, she claimed that Paul was only talking about himself being crucified with Christ but Romans 6 is clearly saying the same thing about all believers. But can we expect to see any acknowledgement of this error?

And of course it hasn't escaped any of us I'm sure that there are a lot of scriptures brought forward that these folks won't engage with.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ps. 106:30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.
31 And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

Killing people in this case also was deemed to be righteous by God. Phinehas' works were righteous.

Plain scripture that you all seem unable to read. Blind and deaf to scriptures indeed. Only selected readings...and misunderstandings will do with this religious crowd.

Got to love it when someone who basis his whole eternity on religion. Mocks a religious crowd.
’

 

[Episkopos]

@marks said...."Is this truly what you think, that I give no consideration towards how I "rightly divide the Word of Truth"? That I just chop it up based on personal likes and dislikes?"


Yes. The reason is that you don't admit you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind as it says in plain scripture...from Jesus no less.

 

[Lizbeth]

Ps. 106:30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.
31 And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

Killing people in this case also was deemed to be righteous by God. Phinehas' works were righteous.

Plain scripture that you all seem unable to read. Blind and deaf to scriptures indeed. Only selected readings...and misunderstandings will do with this religious crowd.

Yes indeed, he acted on faith, and so he received the promise of salvation like Abraham did when he acted on faith (works wrought with his faith). Phinehas will be right up there with the other OT saints.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes indeed, he acted on faith, and so he received the promise of salvation like Abraham did when he acted on faith (works wrought with his faith). Phinehas will be right up there with the other OT saints.

So then you agree with the words of God that righteous is as righteous does, whether by works (like Phihehas) or faith (like Abraham)?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@marks said...."Is this truly what you think, that I give no consideration towards how I "rightly divide the Word of Truth"? That I just chop it up based on personal likes and dislikes?"


Yes. The reason is that you don't admit you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind as it says in plain scripture...from Jesus no less.

He does not admit that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So then you agree with the words of God that righteous is as righteous does, whether by works or faith?

The word of God says it is grace OR works..

Not both.

 

[Johann]

Oh blah blah blah. Ridiculous.
Is there any thread of his you don’t rush into to badmouth epi and say how false and lying he is?
So why do you still not believe Paul when he says:you are yet carnal?
So ridiculous.

Seems like you're reduced to blah blah,

Yes, she claimed that Paul was only talking about himself being crucified with Christ but Romans 6 is clearly saying the same thing about all believers. But can we expect to see any acknowledgement of this error?

And of course it hasn't escaped any of us I'm sure that there are a lot of scriptures brought forward that these folks won't engage with.

No acknowledgement, they are deflecting and Epi is silent while his talmid is "lashing out" but no acknowledgement to what stands written.
This is like watching a comedy show.
This thread might as well be closed, the battle belongs to the Lord.
J.

 

[Episkopos]

Seems like you're reduced to blah blah,

No acknowledgement, they are deflecting and Epi is silent while his talmid is "lashing out" but no acknowledgement to what stands written.
This is like watching a comedy show.
This thread might as well be closed, the battle belongs to the Lord.
J.

I was taking a nap. I guess I forgot to ask permission from you taskmasters.

But you are all doing is looking in the bible for scriptures that justify you IN your sins. That's what baby believers do. You are all carnal...the bunch of you. And having to take you by the hand to show you you are still carnal is tiring, to say the least.

ANYONE who claims righteousness for themselves is self-righteous. It doesn't matter what the bible says that you want to make believe about. ALL our (human) righteousnessess are filthy.

But that doesn't mean there are not righteous people in every nation, tribe and tongue. It's just that the righteous don't CLAIM to be righteous.

Come out of the toddler stage....learn... and show a little humility and fear of God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

people want to give God their bloody filthy rags as payment for sin and think God will accept it

He wont!

“…Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.” (Revelation 14:13)

 

[marks]

He does not admit that?

Don't get diverted away from the topic.

I didn't ask him to begin with. The idea is absurd anyway. Episkopos routinely deflects to ad hominem avoiding those things that must be difficult for him.

Epi's point here is to impugn my Scriptural interpretation, and the way he uses the Scriptures mock it, and I suggest don't playing along.

Revelation 3:14-22 KJV
14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Here's the game:

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Do you believe this? That God has already given you all things that you need for living, and living godly?

I do!!

And because I do, I am branded, "You say you are rich, in need of nothing!"

Colossians 2:8-12 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Ye are complete in Him, do you believe that? I do!!

And because I do, I'm branded, "You say you are in need of nothing, but you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked".

Because I say, Christ in me is the certain expectation of glory. Because I'm trusting in Jesus, believing His Word. That's what it comes down to.

But remember, this is a deflection.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The word of God says it is grace OR works..

Not both.

Yes, very plainly!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Lol.

SBG Thank you for baby-sitting while I was away. The kids nowadays are very rambunctious...spoiled really.

 

[Episkopos]

The word of God says it is grace OR works..

Not both.

Of course that's plainly false. Lying through your teeth or just ignorant of the word?

James 2 :24 You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

How can you not see that you follow a reprobate monk called Luther...not Christ?

 

[Lizbeth]

So then you agree with the words of God that righteous is as righteous does, whether by works (like Phihehas) or faith (like Abraham)?

Think I messed up the quote thing again... @Episkopos

Well, if I may approach it from this angle, do you agree that faith is of the Holy Spirit, whether in old covenant times or new covenant? Remember that Abraham had been 'chosen' by God. We need faith to see that Phineas was moved by faith (aka by the Spirit) to act as he did....that's where his faith came from in those moments, not of his own.

But then this all gets into the question of the Lord having mercy on who He has mercy, while hardening others, etc. Just not sure I'm up to a discussion about that right now.

I think you are trying to make a case that people can be saved by their own righteousness....but I believe that is not possible. Nobody is saved apart from the gospel....those who may attract the favour of God like Cornelius WILL have and NEED to have the gospel revealed to them in order to be saved. And even the OT saints had to wait for salvation as it were......they would not be made perfect (ie, born of the spirit) without us new covenant believers.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The word of God says it is grace OR works..

Not both.

For a lost sinner it’s by grace, not works.

For a saved saint it IS works!

Unless you want to be a lazy unprofitable servant who stays stuck on “grace without works”

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30)

 

[Johann]

Don't get diverted away from the topic.

I didn't ask him to begin with. The idea is absurd anyway. Episkopos routinely deflects to ad hominem avoiding those things that must be difficult for him.

Epi's point here is to impugn my Scriptural interpretation, and the way he uses the Scriptures mock it, and I suggest don't playing along.

Revelation 3:14-22 KJV
14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Here's the game:

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Do you believe this? That God has already given you all things that you need for living, and living godly?

I do!!

And because I do, I am branded, "You say you are rich, in need of nothing!"

Colossians 2:8-12 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Ye are complete in Him, do you believe that? I do!!

And because I do, I'm branded, "You say you are in need of nothing, but you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked".

Because I say, Christ in me is the certain expectation of glory. Because I'm trusting in Jesus, believing His Word. That's what it comes down to.

But remember, this is a deflection.

Much love!

Don't cast the pearls before the swine brother, you have done your part in showing, not @marks , but correctly cutting straight the Scriptures, and they make a mockery out of it, wagging their tales and "whipping their wips"
They WANT you to lash out and like the Perushim catch you in your words, much like they did in Jesus time on earth.

There's nothing more you can do here, Epi's heteros fantastical "gospel" has been exposed and debunked.
Shalom
J.

 

[marks]

So then you agree with the words of God that righteous is as righteous does, whether by works (like Phihehas) or faith (like Abraham)?

Abraham's faith is not a work, and it was not Abraham's righteousness that was imputed to him for righteousness, it was his faith that was imputed to him for righteousness.

Posting Scriptures to show your doctrine can be extremely limiting because you have to then account for the actual words of the passage.

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is plainly stated.

You seem to be saying that Abraham was righteous to begin with, and that's why he had faith, because "righteous is as righteous does", and since he had faith, it was righteousness doing that.

But then why does God say, "his faith is counted for righteousness"? When it would be his own righteousness being credited to him? There is a very plain truth in this Scripture, one that is central towards our understanding. God states it plainly, clearly, and in several places.

Cornelius, a righteous man according to the Scriptures, needed to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul, according to the Law, blameless, eschewed his righteousness according to the law as manure, in favor of the righteousness of God that is by faith.

Phineas stood up, and executed judgment . . . and it was counted to him for righteousness unto all generations, forevermore. It's interesting that he says, to all generations, forevermore.

I can't help but notice that Paul doesn't point to Phineas for an example for salvation, while he points to Abraham in numerous places, and with much specificity.

We're still talking about 2 kinds of righteousness, one by the Law, or works, and one by faith. The righteousness that is by faith is not our own, and boasting is eliminated, being the righteousness of God.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Legalism is a cage.
It'll keep a believer sinning and confessing

Fearlessness is a cage!

It’ll keep a man from holiness!

“…by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6)

But:

“…it is abomination to fools to depart from evil.” (Proverbs 13:19)

 

[Episkopos]

So then you agree with the words of God that righteous is as righteous does, whether by works (like Phihehas) or faith (like Abraham)?

Think I messed up the quote thing again... @Episkopos

It can get tricky...

Well, if I may approach it from this angle, do you agree that faith is of the Holy Spirit, whether in old covenant times or new covenant?

No. We know that we can believe what we want. There are thousands of denominations based on preferences in beliefs. Unless you are so naive as to think that the Holy Spirit wants all the carnal divisions we see.

You are maybe too immature to realize that there is a higher faith...the faith OF Christ. "Until that faith should be revealed"

You are way behind in your understanding. You need a few more years to pray seek and meditate...AFTER you have been crucified from the flesh. That's why you aren't able to understand the bible...beyond what it is doing for your religious ego.

We have covered all this before...but you need the same story told to you over and over and over...and you still don't get it. If you were more humble and realized the stage you are in...we could go over it more slowly perhaps. But I know you are filtering everything through your outer man.

Remember that Abraham had been 'chosen' by God. We need faith to see that Phineas was moved by faith (aka by the Spirit) to act as he did....that's where his faith came from in those moments, not of his own.

You're grasping at straws here. This is false. God was happy that SOMEBODY did something. God is looking to us. You want God to be a puppet master.

But then this all gets into the question of the Lord having mercy on who He has mercy, while hardening others, etc. Just not sure I'm up to a discussion about that right now.

Of course God can put us in different scenarios. He can have mercy on whoever He wills...even Catholics. Does that hurt your reformation pride?

I think you are trying to make a case that people can be saved by their own righteousness....but I believe that is not possible.

You don't understand salvation by works..we will ALL be judged by our works. We are NOT to be judged by grace. You can't see that grace is a way to greater works.

Nobody is saved apart from the gospel....

This is religion talking. No one can come to God save through Christ. But that doesn't mean you get to dirty up the proceedings with your own judgments. Stick to trying to justify yourself...not take away the righteousness from the righteous.

those who may attract the favour of God like Cornelius WILL have and NEED to have the gospel revealed to them in order to be saved.

Completely false. Cornelius is an example of a man who was righteous BEFORE becoming a Christian. Many examples of this in the bible...we have Zacharias and Elizabeth...Your spiritual blindness keeps you hypocritical...a modern Pharisee.

And even the OT saints had to wait for salvation as it were......they would not be made perfect (ie, born of the spirit) without us new covenant believers.

Perfect...yes. But they were righteous. You need teaching (desperately) about the difference between what we can do and are responsible for...and what an EMPOWERED person can do by grace.