What Do You Learn from Debate?

[Mayflower]

By the 6th word of this very post you may have created controversy...

Yes. I object the misspelling of controversial.

 

[CoreIssue]

I know His voice.

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[illini1959]

Beginning with "But every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit...", you have not accounted for babes verses mature within the body, and the perfect timing of God and those who build in His service. That is an immense hole in the works of the Holy Spirit for our time, leaving some "capable" and some definitely not capable at any given time. So, no, that does not answer the circumstances as they truly are.

As for tongues, you correctly defined things with regard to men, but not to God. Just as the marriage between a man and a women is an image of Christ and the church, that which is manifest of tongues by men, among men, is a mere image of the greater spiritual interpretation of every word from God to men.

Press on.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't take into account how 'mature' a believer is. We are indwelt at the time of conversion.

Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

Either the Spirit indwells a person and they're saved, or He doesn't and they're not saved.

We grow in our walk with Christ, but the Spirit leads us in that, too. "Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God." 1 Cor 2:12

Again, tongues isn't God talking to us, it's us talking to God and even that (tongues) isn't mandatory.

 

[farouk]

Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

Either the Spirit indwells a person and they're saved, or He doesn't and they're not saved.


Again, tongues isn't God talking to us, it's us talking to God and even that (tongues) isn't mandatory.

Romans 8.9 is indeed a good verse to remember.

 

[illini1959]

Not sure if it makes sense or not...so, if I am just as a murderer because I murder in my heart, in spirit, even though I've never murdered physically, and it says no murderers will inherit Gods kingdom, does that refer to me, who is just as a murderer, or does it only refer to physical murder?

So you are saying the letter just means the law? Or does the letter mean an outward keeping but not an inward keeping, in other words, a hypocrite who does in secret what others do openly?

Hi stunnedbygrace, I hope you were safe this past weekend. We had a stormy weekend, too.

So...the "letter" is just another way of referring to the "law", so your first comment would be right.

The only thing that keeps anyone out of heaven and separated from God is rejecting Christ - not accepting Him as Savior.

Christ's sacrifice on the Cross saves us from the condemnation of sin - Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Without Christ we are condemned to an eternity separated from God - hell. We're saved from hell. As humans, we're still going to sin. Before anyone (not you) thinks I buy into 'cheap grace' or that just because I'm saved I think I can keep sinning, that couldn't be further from the truth. This is why we 'run the race' as Paul says - why he and others who've written scripture give us instruction on how to live Godly lives, how to fight the enemy (as in Ephesians 6) - why repentance and asking God for forgiveness is still important.

Believers are no longer slaves to sin - when we're regenerated by the Holy Spirit our very nature changes. We're convicted when we do wrong and the closer we grow to Christ the quicker we're going to repent and become obedient.

Does this make sense? Also, I'm sorry for not responding sooner, I rarely post on weekends.

 

[ScottA]

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't take into account how 'mature' a believer is. We are indwelt at the time of conversion.

Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

Either the Spirit indwells a person and they're saved, or He doesn't and they're not saved.

We grow in our walk with Christ, but the Spirit leads us in that, too. "Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God." 1 Cor 2:12

Again, tongues isn't God talking to us, it's us talking to God and even that (tongues) isn't mandatory.

You have made two points.

One, which would seem to be for the Holy Spirit in full measure or not at all. Which, according to Jesus, is not the only way that it has been presented. In addition to us instantly becoming a new creation, where the Holy Spirit is concerned, Jesus has indicated that we are "lead" into all truth during the course of time.

Two, that tongues is perhaps not a type of a greater truth of God, but is something way smaller and limited to explaining the audible outburst of those talking to God rather than being considered crazy. I say tongues is rather a type of the greater communication of God to men, whereby "the scriptures must be discerned spiritually" after being "confounded" by God to place limits on all truth to those who would do evil.

 

[aspen]

I’ve learned, many who post are not here to learn. Some are here to fight
I’ve learned, there are several vocal members who are antisocial
I’ve learned, my optimism has taken a hit
I’ve learned, my view of human nature is challenged by righteously indignant people
I’ve learned, people love their idols and hate everyone else’s
I’ve learned, people would rather be right than love/be loved
I’ve learned, I find myself questioning God’s taste in friends more often
I’ve learned, I cannot know the extent of the affect I have on others
I’ve learned, the more time I spend here, the more negative I become
I’ve learned, people have become more tribal
I’ve learned, people over-identify with their beliefs/false self
I’ve learned, people feel attacked when you disagree with them/their tribe
I’ve learned, people engage in ends justify the means ethics and justify it with scripture
I’ve learned, doubling down on irrational thought is in vogue
I’ve learned, there is a thin line between doctrinal literacy and Pride.
I’ve learned, good hearted Christians here, have taken a beating lately.
I’ve learned, there is more to life than being understood

 

[marks]

Isn't that the nature of internet forums? It's up to you to change it!

 

[Nancy]

I’ve learned, many who post are not here to learn. Some are here to fight
I’ve learned, there are several vocal members who are antisocial
I’ve learned, my optimism has taken a hit
I’ve learned, my view of human nature is challenged by righteously indignant people
I’ve learned, people love their idols and hate everyone else’s
I’ve learned, people would rather be right than love/be loved
I’ve learned, I find myself questioning God’s taste in friends more often
I’ve learned, I cannot know the extent of the affect I have one others
I’ve learned, the more time I spend here, the more negative I become
I’ve learned, people have become more tribal
I’ve learned, people over-identify with their beliefs/false self
I’ve learned, people feel attacked when you disagree with them/their tribe
I’ve learned, people engage in ends justify the means ethics and justify it with scripture
I’ve learned, doubling down on irrational thought is in vogue
I’ve learned, there is a thin line between doctrinal literacy and Pride.
I’ve learned, good hearted Christians here, have taken a beating lately.
I’ve learned, there is more to life than being understood

Ha! All good. I especially liked this one :"I’ve learned, I find myself questioning God’s taste in friends more often"
Ahaha....yes, for sure! I bet He does too

 

[aspen]

Isn't that the nature of internet forums? It's up to you to change it!

I used to agree with this.
Now, I have learned that I cannot change people.
They are going to do what they are going to do
My response is the only thing I have

 

[marks]

I used to agree with this.
Now, I have learned that I cannot change people.
They are going to do what they are going to do
My response is the only thing I have

My hope is to coax people into a higher path. Whether can or not, or am any good at it, I don't know.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

My hope is to coax people into a higher path. Whether can or not, or am any good at it, I don't know.

Much love!

That is very commendable Marks! And it should always be our intention to lead/coax people into a higher path! But would you not say that it is the Holy Spirit who does the "coaxing"? We can talk "at" someone all we want BUT...prayer is much more powerful, as is the leading of the Holy Spirit ♥ Not to mention the person has to seek these things in his own time...even God doesn't force anyone to seek His face. ♥