What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
@CharismaticLady
One of the key things I had to learn is to hold everything that I have come to believe lightly, with respect to the Latter Days because if I held onto what I thought that I new to strongly, then God would not be able to teach me the truth of His prophetic passages.
For example, there are a number of passages where God prophetically states that He will bring Israel back to the soil that He had given to the fathers of Israel. What did God give to the fathers of Israel? He gave them a relationship with which they could be nourished through, just like a plant, i.e. wheat, draws nourishment from the soil in which the seed is planted. Sadly, this idea of God bringing the redeemed nation back into a fertile where they will be nourished and taught about the Kingdom of God, and it diminishes the Idol that many have created by holding the "Promised Land" as being the "sign" that they, the Israelites have been returned or gathered by God to Himself.
The same is also true of the prophecies in Daniel. We can see and understand the manifestations of the "beasts" as they rise up out of the sea of humanity, because that is something that we are able to see, but we are not able to perceive the spiritual influence of the four winds, i.e. spirits of the fallen wicked angels who are cohorts of Satan, of heaven that are causing the manifestations of their respective selves. The truth of this matter is also found in the Book of Daniel, where the following is recorded: -
In the Daniel_10 passage above the description is of a spiritual battle that caused the delay in providing the understanding to Daniel. The kings are the same kings that are described in Daniel_7 who have influence of people, people groups, nations and empires over time as the people, etc., ebb and flow in and out of their influence. In Jeremiah_50 then is mention of two Kings of the North, but the two king are separate by more than 2,000 years that do the bidding of the "kings" that cause the nations to manifest/rise up to do their bidding.
I have been writing about this for over 15 years now, but the mainstay "profits" write their books still, some on a yearly basis, pointing to people/people groups/kingdoms/nations/empires as being the fulfilment of prophecy as the respective key players in the End Times. Many of these End Time "profits" hold to other flawed understandings as well.
I had to change my understanding of who are what were the beasts of the Book of Daniel and separate the Statue Prophecy and the respective segment nations/kingdoms/empires from the nations/kingdoms/empires who became and will be influenced by the beastly kings of Daniel_7.
Unless we are prepared to let go of the man established understandings of Prophecies then we will not be able to understand God's intended purposes and fulfilments within the Latter Days, like Gen_15:16 being fulfilled in 1948 rather than as man has claimed was fulfilled in the exodus from Egypt.
The key to my coming to a very different understanding more in keeping with what the prophecies actual portray, was that I had to be prepared to let go of what I had previously been taught and come to believe what was revealed to me as being "true."
Humble yourself like Daniel and wait for God to reveal His truth to you.
Shalom
One of the key things I had to learn is to hold everything that I have come to believe lightly, with respect to the Latter Days because if I held onto what I thought that I new to strongly, then God would not be able to teach me the truth of His prophetic passages.
For example, there are a number of passages where God prophetically states that He will bring Israel back to the soil that He had given to the fathers of Israel. What did God give to the fathers of Israel? He gave them a relationship with which they could be nourished through, just like a plant, i.e. wheat, draws nourishment from the soil in which the seed is planted. Sadly, this idea of God bringing the redeemed nation back into a fertile where they will be nourished and taught about the Kingdom of God, and it diminishes the Idol that many have created by holding the "Promised Land" as being the "sign" that they, the Israelites have been returned or gathered by God to Himself.
The same is also true of the prophecies in Daniel. We can see and understand the manifestations of the "beasts" as they rise up out of the sea of humanity, because that is something that we are able to see, but we are not able to perceive the spiritual influence of the four winds, i.e. spirits of the fallen wicked angels who are cohorts of Satan, of heaven that are causing the manifestations of their respective selves. The truth of this matter is also found in the Book of Daniel, where the following is recorded: -
Daniel_10:10-14: - Prophecies Concerning Persia and Greece
10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands. 11 And he said to me, "O Daniel, man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you." While he was speaking this word to me, I stood trembling.
12 Then he said to me, "Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of/the wicked heavenly prince/king* who has dominion over the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings* of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come."
Note * : - The meaning of the word used here is also found in Daniel_7:17: - 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.
10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands. 11 And he said to me, "O Daniel, man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you." While he was speaking this word to me, I stood trembling.
12 Then he said to me, "Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of/the wicked heavenly prince/king* who has dominion over the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings* of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come."
Note * : - The meaning of the word used here is also found in Daniel_7:17: - 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.
In the Daniel_10 passage above the description is of a spiritual battle that caused the delay in providing the understanding to Daniel. The kings are the same kings that are described in Daniel_7 who have influence of people, people groups, nations and empires over time as the people, etc., ebb and flow in and out of their influence. In Jeremiah_50 then is mention of two Kings of the North, but the two king are separate by more than 2,000 years that do the bidding of the "kings" that cause the nations to manifest/rise up to do their bidding.
I have been writing about this for over 15 years now, but the mainstay "profits" write their books still, some on a yearly basis, pointing to people/people groups/kingdoms/nations/empires as being the fulfilment of prophecy as the respective key players in the End Times. Many of these End Time "profits" hold to other flawed understandings as well.
I had to change my understanding of who are what were the beasts of the Book of Daniel and separate the Statue Prophecy and the respective segment nations/kingdoms/empires from the nations/kingdoms/empires who became and will be influenced by the beastly kings of Daniel_7.
Unless we are prepared to let go of the man established understandings of Prophecies then we will not be able to understand God's intended purposes and fulfilments within the Latter Days, like Gen_15:16 being fulfilled in 1948 rather than as man has claimed was fulfilled in the exodus from Egypt.
The key to my coming to a very different understanding more in keeping with what the prophecies actual portray, was that I had to be prepared to let go of what I had previously been taught and come to believe what was revealed to me as being "true."
Humble yourself like Daniel and wait for God to reveal His truth to you.
Shalom
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Or, ask for help from someone who knows:
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, pray, does the prophet say this, about himself or about some one else?”
Ephesians 4:11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
Ephesians 4:11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
Bobby Jo
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You don't know me, but you are preaching to the choir. I've had an open mind since I was 23 yrs old, and am constantly adjusting my beliefs as the Spirit teaches me the meaning of different parts of His word. Don't think you've cornered the market on humility. I am aware I don't know everything about Daniel, but I am very teachable. But not from man, from God. It is the reason I'm not a denominationalist. I've even come to a new conclusion about Daniel 9:27 THIS WEEK which I've never before held. But I'm still clueless about chapter 11.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have put together the necessary prophetic scriptures from Daniel, along with the historical time line, as recorded in 1 Maccabees.
Except for those bible references and those 2 books, I have not used any commentary for influence or assistance.
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Knowing the onslaught that this study will under go, because of many who are misunderstanding the 70 weeks, it will appear that this work might fail, but I assure you that it will be helped by the few who do seek to know the Lord's truth, in spite of themselves.
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Because Jesus Himself spoke of the prophesied event of the AoD in Daniel, we can safely conclude that the prophecy in Daniel was fulfilled before Jesus first appeared.
Being therefore fulfilled, that prophecy can never be fulfilled again, but it can be used in the concept of type and anti-type, which is exactly what Jesus meant, when He said:
Mat. 24[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).
Clue: "the holy place" is not what many have assumed!
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Now, for God's wisdom and discernment on the above scripture, I strongly urge all to consider Isaiah 55:8-9; John 16:13 and John 2:19-21.
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I have decided that I shall start a new thread, titled: "The AoD In Daniel Was fulfilled".
I will post it within 2 days. I have been quite busy on a couple projects around the house . :)
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Thanks. When you post the new post, please give me an alert by putting a @CharismaticLady on the first page.
... conforming to the angel's guidance in 12:4 & 9.
Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.
Otherwise, this will be just another FALSE Doctrine which can only serve to tickle the ears of the gullible and the uninformed, for which there is NO SHORTAGE!
... and I already know that christianity (small "c" ) is like a buffet line where people pick and choose what they want to believe, rather than OBEY the TRUTH of Scripture. :)
Bobby Jo
And it's not just Chapter 11, because ALL the Chapters are interlaced, along with Rev. 13 & 17. If you don't get one, you typically don't get any of them. :)
In most instances, ignorance is a choice,
Bobby Jo
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Earburner
Well-Known Member
It is apparent that you didn't take the time to consider the scriptures I referenced.
Or maybe you did, and they mean nothing to you.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Scriptures you referenced? Do you mean the ones that contradicted Daniel 12:4 & 9? I guess I didn't find those. I'm only aware of Verses which CONFIRM Daniel 12:4 & 9, but then again, I haven't read the Version of the Bible which YOU WROTE! :)
Bobby Jo
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
@Phoneman777
Mar'eh
The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4758 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
harm from (07200)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Mar'eh TWOT - 2095i
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mar-eh' Noun Masculine
Definition
NAS Word Usage - Total: 92
appear 1, appearance 48, appears 7, desires 1, face 2, form 2, good-looking* 1, impressive 1, like 2, looked 2, looking 1, openly 1, pattern 1, saw* 1, see* 1, sight 5, something 2, vision 10, what...see 2, who looked 1
Mar'eh
The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4758 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
harm from (07200)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Mar'eh TWOT - 2095i
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mar-eh' Noun Masculine
Definition
- sight, appearance, vision
- sight, phenomenon, spectacle, appearance, vision
- what is seen
- a vision (supernatural)
- sight, vision (power of seeing)
NAS Word Usage - Total: 92
appear 1, appearance 48, appears 7, desires 1, face 2, form 2, good-looking* 1, impressive 1, like 2, looked 2, looking 1, openly 1, pattern 1, saw* 1, see* 1, sight 5, something 2, vision 10, what...see 2, who looked 1
Phoneman777
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That is correct. And "mareh" is used to refer to the 2,300 Days portion of Daniel 8, while "Chazown" is not used to refer to it. So, when the angel tells Daniel to consider the "mareh" - and also taking into consideration that the only part of the vision that confused Daniel was the 2,300 - we know that the explanation which follows which is the revelation of the 70 Weeks is given specifically to explain his confusion about the 2,300 Days. Our interpretation of the prophecy must be built upon this intrinsic link or it is illegit.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Seeing as Gabriel speaks to Daniel often, I wish you would post the verse you are talking about.
Phoneman777
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BTW, the unfolding of the 2,300 Days cannot stretch forth unto the end of time, not in B.C., because the prophecy says it would. It says the 2,300 Days was to be "shut up" until the time of the end, and that's when the understanding of it was fully known.
It seems Daniel's persistence to know what it meant moved God to reveal to him somewhat the meaning of it, but it is clear that only history could fully demonstrate the extent of what the vision was talking about.
And it is most appropriate that the 70 Weeks would be used to explain the 2,300 Days because the 70 Weeks are all about the coming of the Messiah, cut off from the 2,300 Days and calculated "from the going forth of the commandment..." and this same Messiah would go on to become the very High Priest that "after 2,300 Days then shall the (Heavenly) Sanctuary be cleansed" by Him.
Phoneman777
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I like the online "Blue Letter Bible" where you can look up the chapter and then click on "Tools" that appears to the left of each verse and it will show the words in the original. Whenever you see the Hebrew "mareh" it is always talking about the 2,300 Days in the context of such phrases like "make this man to understand the vision ("mareh") and such - it's never used to refer to the entire vision of Daniel 8, as is "chazown" - only the part that left Daniel confused which is the 2,300 and Gabriel in chapter 9 comes to make him "understand the matter and consider the "mareh".
Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to the one that spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the continual burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled under foot?”14 And he said to him, “For two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”
According to SCRIPTURE the only one "confused" is @Phoneman777. But he's convinced, -- so I guess we should be too! :)
How can someone be so WRONG as to not READ THE VERSES and then give STUPID ADVICE?!?
Bobby Jo
"own up to"? What does that mean?!?
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