What Are we Getting Saved From?

[keithr]

Here's a claim, you and the JWs have twisted about every verse of scripture in this thread.

More deliberate provoking slander! Just picking a few verses I've mentioned in this thread:

From post #475:

The fallen angels are not eternally punished by being kept in darkness in Tartarus. They have been imprisoned there to await their judgement.
2 Peter 2:4 (WEB):

(4) For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment;​

From post #482:

Psalms 146:4 tells us:

(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.​

When we die our thoughts cease - we become unconscious, or as Jesus describes it, it is like a deep sleep.​

From post #500:

Genesis 2:17 (WEB):

(17) but you shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”​

Note that God told Adam that the punishment would be death, not an eternal life of torture.​

From post #510:

A more precise translation says, Matthew 18:9 (TLV):

(9) If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. It’s better for you to enter into life with one eye than, having two eyes, to be thrown into fiery Gehenna.​

But again, it says nothing about eternal torture/torment. Jesus says it's better to lose an eye and enter into eternal life than to keep both eyes but end up perishing and not having eternal life.​

I don't believe that in any of those cases that I was "twisting about" those verses, so your claim is false.

 

[keithr]

You sound extremely JWish! Why is that?

I can't explain what you think about my posts! I can only reiterate that I am not a JW, I have never been a JW, and I have never been to a JW church (Kingdom Hall) or any of their meetings anywhere. I have spoken to JW's that have come calling at my home, as many people have also experienced.

 

[Jack]

I can't explain what you think about my posts! I can only reiterate that I am not a JW, I have never been a JW, and I have never been to a JW church (Kingdom Hall) or any of their meetings anywhere. I have spoken to JW's that have come calling at my home, as many people have also experienced.

Here's how people become JW's.
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

 

[keithr]

Here's how people become JW's.
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

The full sentence is, 1 Timothy 4:1-3 (WEB):

(1) But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,
(2) through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;
(3) forbidding marriage and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.​

As far as I am aware the JW's do not forbid marriage nor abstaining from any foods, so I don't think that you can apply this passage to JW's. It sounds more like the Roman Catholic church, who forbid their pastors/priests from marrying.

 

[Jack]

The full sentence is, 1 Timothy 4:1-3 (WEB):

(1) But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,
(2) through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;
(3) forbidding marriage and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.​

As far as I am aware the JW's do not forbid marriage nor abstaining from any foods, so I don't think that you can apply this passage to JW's. It sounds more like the Roman Catholic church, who forbid their pastors/priests from marrying.

All who deny that Jesus is God and Hell fire is "everlasting" are believing "doctrines of demons".

 

[teamventure]

Be careful about the condemnation....the Jews thought that they were right about Jesus too.

Jesus also said that his true disciples would be a hated minority.

Jesus and his didciples believed scripture.
That's an easy way to spot a false teacher.
So is a JW. It is a known cult that Jesus and his disciples would have nothing to do with.

 

[teamventure]

I wasn't contradicting you, I was simply asking you to provide Biblical evidence to support your claim that "the concept of eternal punishment" is mentioned more times in the Bible than heaven is. I called your bluff, so it's up to you to prove it. So far you haven't.

So let me do some work for you. From Did Jesus talk more about HELL than He did Heaven?:

I have heard it said by some very well-known preachers that Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven but what are the facts? As a young minister, I had heard this so-called fact repeated many times but every time I heard it repeated something didn’t sit right with me. Many years ago, I decided to do some research to find out for myself if this was true. What I discovered was there are 1900 plus verses in the four Gospels that contain Jesus’ words. Surprisingly, only about 60 of those verses, or just three percent of them, might be construed as either directly or indirectly referring to Hell.

On the other hand, there are more than three times as many verses in the Gospels in which Jesus references Heaven, eternal life, or his coming kingdom: 192 verses in all, or almost 10%.

So, the evidence suggests that Jesus didn’t speak about Hell more than Heaven. In truth, he talked about Heaven three times more than He did about Hell!​

We've posted countless scriptures about hell on this thread and you deny that they're about hell. So what use is posting more when you're just like a politition, deny deny deny.

 

[teamventure]

More deliberate provoking slander! Just picking a few verses I've mentioned in this thread:

From post #475:

The fallen angels are not eternally punished by being kept in darkness in Tartarus. They have been imprisoned there to await their judgement.
2 Peter 2:4 (WEB):

(4) For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment;​

From post #482:

Psalms 146:4 tells us:

(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.​

When we die our thoughts cease - we become unconscious, or as Jesus describes it, it is like a deep sleep.​

From post #500:

Genesis 2:17 (WEB):

(17) but you shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”​

Note that God told Adam that the punishment would be death, not an eternal life of torture.​

From post #510:

A more precise translation says, Matthew 18:9 (TLV):

(9) If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. It’s better for you to enter into life with one eye than, having two eyes, to be thrown into fiery Gehenna.​

But again, it says nothing about eternal torture/torment. Jesus says it's better to lose an eye and enter into eternal life than to keep both eyes but end up perishing and not having eternal life.​

I don't believe that in any of those cases that I was "twisting about" those verses, so your claim is false.

You just cherry picked a few verses that you didn't twist to direct attention away from the rest that you did. You are crafty and deceptive, like a snake in the grass.

 

[Jack]

Should we believe the WatchTower victims here or should we believe Jesus Who warned us of the "everlasting fire", "hell fire"?

Matthew 5 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Jack]

We've posted countless scriptures about hell on this thread and you deny that they're about hell. So what use is posting more when you're just like a polatition, deny deny deny.

Maybe some JW's will get saved? Instead of following the WatchTower to Hell fire?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus and his didciples believed scripture.
That's an easy way to spot a false teacher.
So is a JW. It is a known cult that Jesus and his disciples would have nothing to do with.

LOL..."known" by whom? Do you think Jesus and his disciples would have been branded a "cult" in the first century by the Jews?
It is very evident to me that you know nothing about JW's....only what you have gleaned from hate sites.
I like to get my information from the horse's mouth, not the other end....

But hey, if you want to believe only one side of a story, that is your prerogative. The devil couldn't possibly have deceived you.......could he?
Are you "hated and persecuted" by the world? (John 15:18-21)

Who persecuted the first Christians and executed their own Messiah? People who believed in the same God....could the devil do it again?
I guess we will all find out soon enough. (1 Corinthians 10:12)

 

[Aunty Jane]

We've posted countless scriptures about hell on this thread and you deny that they're about hell. So what use is posting more when you're just like a polatition, deny deny deny.

Funny, but we probably think the same about you....deny, deny, deny.....there is no "fiery hell of eternal torment" in the Bible.
The scriptures you are using don't say what you think they do.
You need to do some research on "gehenna" and learn something about the god you are supposed to be worshipping.
He has no need to torture anyone.

What is a "polatition" BTW......?

 

[Jack]

Funny, but we probably think the same about you....deny, deny, deny.....there is no "fiery hell of eternal torment" in the Bible.
The scriptures you are using don't say what you think they do.
You need to do some research on "gehenna" and learn something about the god you are supposed to be worshipping.
He has no need to torture anyone.

What is a "polatition" BTW......?

You're not qualified to rewrite our Bible. Have you ever read the NWT? JW's don't even believe the NWT. Do you even know what NWT means?

 

[face2face]

Jesus and his didciples believed scripture.
That's an easy way to spot a false teacher.
So is a JW. It is a known cult that Jesus and his disciples would have nothing to do with.

Because you are on the other side of truth I suggest care be taken on this subject.

Acts of the apostles 24:14 comes to mind.

Paul not only admits to the religion which he was accused of, but also proves it to be true, to be heavenly and from God, and to be the oldest of all religions.

Here this word "heresy" is taken in a good sense

Cult / Sect - Paul embraced his understanding of the Gospel.

 

[Jack]

Satan loves to send his children to lead people to the "everlasting fire" that Jesus warned us about!
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[keithr]

You just cherry picked a few verses that you didn't twist to direct attention away from the rest that you did. You are crafty and deceptive, like a snake in the grass.

You claimed (in post #621) that I had "twisted about every verse of scripture in this thread". By picking 4 verses that I have not "twisted about" I have proved you wrong. I am not crafty and deceptive, just honest, truthful and precise. My posts are there for you and everyone to read. Your judgement is faullty.

You appear to be spreading and provoking hatred rather than love - consider the following verses:

Hebrews 10:24 (WEB):

(24) Let’s consider how to provoke one another to love and good works,​

1 Peter 3:8-9 (WEB):

(8) Finally, be all like-minded, compassionate, loving as brothers, tender hearted, courteous,
(9) not rendering evil for evil, or insult for insult; but instead blessing; knowing that to this were you called, that you may inherit a blessing.​

John 13:35 (WEB):

(35) By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”​

 

[keithr]

You're not qualified to rewrite our Bible.

Neither are you. So what?

Have you ever read the NWT? JW's don't even believe the NWT. Do you even know what NWT means?

I'm not a JW, but I do have a copy of the NWT (a friend gave it to me - he had bought it in a secondhand shop). Have you read it? I'm sure Aunty Jane knows that NWT stands for 'New World Translation (of the Holy Scriptures)'. Again, so what's your point?

 

[teamventure]

LOL..."known" by whom? Do you think Jesus and his disciples would have been branded a "cult" in the first century by the Jews?
It is very evident to me that you know nothing about JW's....only what you have gleaned from hate sites.
I like to get my information from the horse's mouth, not the other end....

But hey, if you want to believe only one side of a story, that is your prerogative. The devil couldn't possibly have deceived you.......could he?
Are you "hated and persecuted" by the world? (John 15:18-21)

Who persecuted the first Christians and executed their own Messiah? People who believed in the same God....could the devil do it again?
I guess we will all find out soon enough. (1 Corinthians 10:12)

So are you a JW?

 

[teamventure]

You claimed (in post #621) that I had "twisted about every verse of scripture in this thread". By picking 4 verses that I have not "twisted about" I have proved you wrong. I am not crafty and deceptive, just honest, truthful and precise. My posts are there for you and everyone to read. Your judgement is faullty.

You appear to be spreading and provoking hatred rather than love - consider the following verses:

Hebrews 10:24 (WEB):

(24) Let’s consider how to provoke one another to love and good works,​

1 Peter 3:8-9 (WEB):

(8) Finally, be all like-minded, compassionate, loving as brothers, tender hearted, courteous,
(9) not rendering evil for evil, or insult for insult; but instead blessing; knowing that to this were you called, that you may inherit a blessing.​

John 13:35 (WEB):

(35) By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”​

You twisted scripture I posted in post #510
You will be held accountable to God for twisting his word.

 

[teamventure]

Neither are you. So what?


I'm not a JW, but I do have a copy of the NWT (a friend gave it to me - he had bought it in a secondhand shop). Have you read it? I'm sure Aunty Jane knows that NWT stands for 'New World Translation (of the Holy Scriptures)'. Again, so what's your point?

Why not come out of the closet the whole way and let us know your a JW.