What are the main doctrinal differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and mainstream Christianity?

[Rita]

I would say that the “love and peace” you feel doing those things is not the same as the “love and peace” that comes from upholding the truth of God’s word. If he tells us not to celebrate unchristian events and we engage in them in full knowledge of their origins, then we have to understand what this means from God’s perspective, not justifying something because it made us feel good.

The principle in Luke 16:10 applies here....
“The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.”

We can all find scriptures to justify what we want to believe....it doesn’t make it true however. Jehovah is a God of truth.....he hates falsehood.....and we know the one who promotes it....even in what is “least”.

This is difficult to evaluate, and there is a very thin line if we choose to judge another persons experience. You have no actual way of knowing the origins of the love and peace that is felt by another believer.
Now I never felt a strong sense of peace about Christmas , but Easter was one event that did impact me on a spiritual level. That kind of changed last year and suddenly I found myself looking towards the Passover as the right thing to look at when I remember the cross.
I do believe that commercialism and other things have crept in to both Christmas and Easter but this doesn’t mean that members here cannot sincerely seek and hear from God at those times, much depends on the motive and heart behind it all.

Rita

 

[Randy Kluth]

Indeed! But not the way you think.....
Do you know the origins of those celebrations that the commercial system uses to its own advantage when Christians were told not to mix pagan worship with true worship (2 Cor 6:14-18)......the Israelites were told the same thing, but did it anyway meriting God’s punishment when they tried adopting pagan practices. (Deut 18:9)

The birthdate of the Christ is not recorded in the Bible because the Jews did not celebrate birthdays, so guess where December 25th came from, along with all the customs that people enjoy? Google it.

Easter isn’t in the Bible either......it is an adoption from the worship of a pagan fertility goddess whose name remains the same, as well as her symbols....rabbits and eggs.....you have all been sold a bucket full of lies.
Justification for continuing with these things will not make them acceptable to God...only to yourselves.

The religious denominations that uphold them know their origins and yet they still promote them as “Christian”......when they never were. Those two major events on their calendar bring in more money for them than at any other times in the year....who is going to banish that cash cow?

Jane, only you and your "denomination" pre-judge people who want to recognize Jesus' resurrection on Easter and his birth on Christmas. The use of various pagan names and traditions does not, in the least, detract from the focus on Christ.

You make the focus on words and traditions as they've been used by pagans. You completely ignore the fact that Christians do not use any of these pagan uses themselves, and only wish to recognize Christ as Lord.

We've had this kind of argument for centuries. For example, in more recent times there has been an argument that Christian musicians should not use any forms of music that have been used by pagans in the thought that it promotes Satan. But it was actually just Christian musicians trying to appeal to the musical tastes of people who may learn to disassociate Satan from that form of music.

Christians have been doing this for centuries. It is our job not just to testify to Christ, but to show people that one can live in this world in a way that glorifies God instead of letting the world dictate the spirit and the message. You play into Satan's hands when you denounce Christians who recognize Christmas and Easter as legitimate opportunities to turn these days into a means of glorifying God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jane, only you and your "denomination" pre-judge people who want to recognize Jesus' resurrection on Easter and his birth on Christmas. The use of various pagan names and traditions does not, in the least, detract from the focus on Christ.

Does it never occur to you folks that every celebration that is held in Christendom is 'borrowed' from the pagans and renamed to make it seem as if God approves of it?.....if he did not approve of such things with his nation of Israel in the past, what makes us think that he turns a blind eye to it now? Who said it was OK to adopt pagan festivals and change their name? Who said it was OK back in Bible times? NOT Jehovah.

You play into Satan's hands when you denounce Christians who recognize Christmas and Easter as legitimate opportunities to turn these days into a means of glorifying God.

And because you think that paganizing Christianity is not a violation of the scriptural admonition in 2 Cor 6:14-18, (NOT to mix Christianity with paganism), haven't you yourselves played into satan's hands? We have to be "faithful in what is least" or it will be more difficult to remain faithful in the bigger things.

No one is stopping you from doing whatever you like.....I am just bringing to your attention what the scriptures say about these things.
What you do about it is up to you.....you don't have to answer to me....I am merely a messenger.

Justification is what allows "Christians" to do what God says not to......they can join the military and kill people of another nation who may be called their "enemy" when they have done nothing more than join the military of their own nation......sent to kill for their government's corrupt political agendas......often blinded by the propaganda fed to them......justification starts with the small things, and before you know it, you can justify even killing your fellowman because he happens to be of a different nation, political ideology or religion.
Is this what Jesus told us to do?
"You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Matthew 5:43-45)

Do you see justification for hating anyone, for any reason? If we are to "love our enemies"...how can we do that with weapons?

"Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." (Rom 12:17-21)

What is Christendom's track record in this? Haven't they always supported their military? (James 4:4)

 

[Randy Kluth]

Does it never occur to you folks that every celebration that is held in Christendom is 'borrowed' from the pagans and renamed to make it seem as if God approves of it?.....if he did not approve of such things with his nation of Israel in the past, what makes us think that he turns a blind eye to it now? Who said it was OK to adopt pagan festivals and change their name? Who said it was OK back in Bible times? NOT Jehovah.

The reason it doesn't "occur" to us folks that we're celebrating pagan festivals is because *we're not!* As I just got through telling you, the use of what had been used in a pagan way does not infer that it is still being used in a pagan way. The idea is to convert anything pagan about it to a Christian use. There is no Scriptural prohibition on that. On the contrary, we are encouraged to do that when Paul said, "become like them to win them."

This, of course, did not mean we become pagan to win pagans. Rather, it means we borrow their language in order to communicate to them the Gospel so that any trace of paganism is given over to Christianity. This is not a "pagan practice," but rather, a means of communicating the Gospel. We celebrate Christmas and Easter in order to show the pagan world that we celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection from the dead.

It is *pure judgmentalism* on your part to infer otherwise. I've never seen a single Christian celebrate Christmas and Easter to celebrate paganism. It has always been to celebrate Christ. Any pagan vestige is wiped away when we make Christ Lord and view all trace of paganism scrubbed from the celebrations by default.

Bringing up the origins of the words and the history of the traditions in pagan times does not corrupt Christian practices that seem related to them. Even today's culture witnesses the use of words originating from the streets that are converted into more neutral uses by society.

That is, "street vernacular" is adopted by society to convey things that lose their original "street" meanings. A lot of vile words thus become neutralized by a different use of the same words. I need not mention them in their pagan context, or they will be again associated with their corrupt past. Your continued reference to the pagan origins of some aspects of Christmas and Easter is an attempt to "paganize" what really are *Christian* celebrations.

No one is stopping you from doing whatever you like.....I am just bringing to your attention what the scriptures say about these things.
What you do about it is up to you.....you don't have to answer to me....I am merely a messenger.

It has never been critical to me personally to celebrate Christmas and Easter. That comes from a society that used to be more Christian. We were raised up in public schools to recognize them. Since the state is no longer Christian this is no longer done.

I don't personally celebrate Christmas or Easter in any way, except to perhaps join the society in the vestiges of these celebrations. For example, I put up lights on our porch in the Christmas season. It's just a lovely thing to do, joining our neighborhood in showing comradery. It certainly isn't a religious rite or a legal requirement with me!

I personally recognize the fact that Christ was born and raised from the dead every day I walk as a Christian. There is no need for a holiday to do this. It's amazing to me that you think we do this! It seems that you just want to set your group apart for taking a stand against holiday celebrations?

Justification is what allows "Christians" to do what God says not to......they can join the military and kill people of another nation who may be called their "enemy" when they have done nothing more than join the military of their own nation......sent to kill for their government's corrupt political agendas......often blinded by the propaganda fed to them......justification starts with the small things, and before you know it, you can justify even killing your fellowman because he happens to be of a different nation, political ideology or religion.
Is this what Jesus told us to do?

Actually, here in the US the military is voluntary, unless there is a national emergency and they restart the draft. Joining the military, as I did, was a choice to make myself available for national emergencies--not a recognition that everything our country does, militarily, is right. To take part in the "readiness" is not to condone every military action we take in the world. To not have any "readiness" at all is foolishness, according to Scriptures.

1 Chron 11.10 These were the chiefs of David’s mighty warriors—they, together with all Israel, gave his kingship strong support to extend it over the whole land, as the Lord had promised.

Adventurism is, of course, sinful. We should never encourage or participate in a military organization that is focused upon expanding our political organization into other countries. Each nation must make their own choice.

In the early Church, many Christians did not participate in Roman military activities, as I understand it. Many were "pacifists." As the state became devoted to more Christian beliefs, participating in defending the state became not only okay but noble.

To defend your own family is a brave and noble task. When other countries threaten or invade your own country, you have to take up arms by necessity.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I find your responses here quite revealing TBH.

The reason it doesn't "occur" to us folks that we're celebrating pagan festivals is because *we're not!*

Who was it that told the population that they were not celebrating pagan festivals under another name?

Who invalidated 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 where we are clearly told NOT to mix pagan beliefs and practices with the pure worship required by a holy God?

Let’s read it again...
“Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” Therefore“ Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.
“I will be a Father to you,And you shall be My sons and daughters,Says the Lord Almighty.“ (NKJV)

Paul said it was like Christ having accord with the devil (Belial).....he said we were not to TOUCH what is spiritually “unclean”......and yet the justification continues. He doesn’t say that they become “clean” when you change the name and ignore where they came from.
In all of the scriptures there was never once where the Jews adopted false religious practices and fused them with God’s worship, where Jehovah sanctioned that. It was never OK with him, even thought they thought it was OK with them. (Prov 3:5) He punished them for that.

As I just got through telling you, the use of what had been used in a pagan way does not infer that it is still being used in a pagan way. The idea is to convert anything pagan about it to a Christian use. There is no Scriptural prohibition on that. On the contrary, we are encouraged to do that when Paul said, "become like them to win them."

I’m sorry, but there is scriptural prohibition on adopting what is clearly something unchristian and turning it into something that might be acceptable to man, but is wholly unacceptable to God.

What Paul said is nothing like what you imply. So what did he say...?

“For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.” (NKJV)

He was not going to break God’s law through Christ to win anyone.....all he did was within the parameters of what was true and scripturally lawful. He knew that the background of his audience was important to his approach. But not a soul was accepted into the Christian congregation who wanted to bring the contamination of pagan beliefs and practices with them.....those things had to be completely eliminated from their lives. They had to be “washed clean” of any beliefs and practices that were clearly of pagan origin, especially the Gentile converts. Jewish Christians already knew God’s law from infancy, but they were also made aware by Jesus of the failings of the Pharisees. Jesus said that they worshipped God “in vain” because they “taught the commands of men as doctrines.” (Matt 15:7-9)

Whose commands are being followed in this? Certainly not God’s....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Rather, it means we borrow their language in order to communicate to them the Gospel so that any trace of paganism is given over to Christianity. This is not a "pagan practice," but rather, a means of communicating the Gospel. We celebrate Christmas and Easter in order to show the pagan world that we celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection from the dead.

This is justification again, based on what you want to believe. The gospel was preached by Jesus’ disciples in all the languages of those who came to Jerusalem for the festival of Pentecost from the surrounding nations. It wasn’t borrowed, but given by God so that those who spoke other languages (because the Jews were scattered in the Diaspora) would hear the Christian message in their own language. This was before Gentiles were accepted into the Christian arrangement. Jesus’ target audience was exclusively Jewish, as he said. (Matt 15:24)
It was Jews who heard the gospel in the languages provided by God’s spirit. (Acts 2:5-11) Remember that God is the originator of all languages.

If we celebrate what is not Christian (and never was) imagining that it’s all OK with God to do that....then I guess we might be among those who try to justify themselves to Jesus at the judgment....

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matt 7:21-23 NKJV)

Who wants to be on the receiving end of that?

I need not mention them in their pagan context, or they will be again associated with their corrupt past. Your continued reference to the pagan origins of some aspects of Christmas and Easter is an attempt to "paganize" what really are *Christian* celebrations.

This makes me smile.....they were never “Christian” to begin with. You cannot divorce them from their pagan origins because God knows where they came from...he was there observing the pagans worshipping their false gods with the exact same customs and practices.....changing the name doesn’t alter anything.....I believe that you are fooling yourself....but your choices are yours to make about these things.

I don't personally celebrate Christmas or Easter in any way, except to perhaps join the society in the vestiges of these celebrations. For example, I put up lights on our porch in the Christmas season. It's just a lovely thing to do, joining our neighborhood in showing comradery. It certainly isn't a religious rite or a legal requirement with me!

Well that’s a revelation.....you don’t personally celebrate Christmas or Easter, but ”joining society” in putting up the pretty lights and decorating the house for the Christmas season might show your neighbors that you do.....so what are you showing God?
We are not to “touch” what is unclean in God’s eyes......how it appears to humans is inconsequential.
Not everything the devil does is ugly, or he would not be able to fool the nice people. God never said he was going to save “nice” people...he is going to save obedient ones. Obedience even in the small things is important to God. (Luke 16:10)

In Paul’s day he spoke of the false apostles.....
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.” (2 Cor 11:14-15 NKJV)

Have the false ministers of the counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus foretold, (and seen in today’s world) also done the same thing? Are humans tempted by the “pretty things” and the “selfish greed” that is a common theme in the modern day practice of these things? It promotes all the things that God condemns.
Those who engage in them are judged by what they do, because they have no excuse to justify what the scriptures clearly condemn.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I personally recognize the fact that Christ was born and raised from the dead every day I walk as a Christian. There is no need for a holiday to do this. It's amazing to me that you think we do this! It seems that you just want to set your group apart for taking a stand against holiday celebrations?

What’s amazing to me is that people feel obligated to engage in these celebrations even when they are struggling to make ends meet in their everyday existence.....who made them feel as if it was sacriligious not to celebrate?.....and their children are left to wonder why God is so generous to the rich kids and forgets to tell Santa to leave them a bunch of expensive presents....? Is it because they can’t afford a Christmas tree? Don’t you have to lie to children to cover up the lie you told them in the first place?
Is lying to children really a Christian thing to do?

The happy family time it is supposed to be, is shattered by the break up of families and the bickering that often occurs over where the children will spend “Christmas”......not to mention the escalating levels of domestic violence that also comes fueled with alcohol at that time.....dress it up all you want....God sees all the ugliness....and the secular use of these occasions as commercial events is nothing short of disgusting.

1 Chron 11.10 These were the chiefs of David’s mighty warriors—they, together with all Israel, gave his kingship strong support to extend it over the whole land, as the Lord had promised.

Please don’t imply that anything that pertained to Israel’s military engagements applies in Christianity.
The only use of Israel’s military was in defense of their God given land and God’s temple....sanctioned and supported by him.
Please tell me whose land today is “God given”? Most of it is stolen from other peoples, who had first claim and with violence and bloodshed. None of that is sanctioned by God at all.

By the time of Christ’s appearance as Messiah, Israel had been subjugated by pagan nations for hundreds of years. As you mentioned, they had no military at that time, but were under the dominance of the Roman Empire.
No Christians were encouraged to join the Roman army.....just as no Jews were either. Any Jews who worked for the Romans were despised...like the tax collectors. Matthew was one of those.

Jesus told his disciples that they were to be “no part of the world” which included its corrupt politics, it’s greedy commercialism, or its false religions. They were not to adopt their morals or beliefs, or to engage in practices that God’s word condemned.

In the early Church, many Christians did not participate in Roman military activities, as I understand it. Many were "pacifists." As the state became devoted to more Christian beliefs, participating in defending the state became not only okay but noble.

Here we have the beginning of the satan’s greatest weapon.....the “weeds” sown by him, took over “the church” and they became a fusion of Roman paganism with a very weakened form of Christianity...enforced on the whole empire under the direction of an Emperor who did not become “baptized” until he was on his deathbed. He was a worshipper of Zeus his whole life whilst pretending to support Christianity. But as an astute politician, he merely consolidated his religiously divided empire under one religious umbrella that catered to all of them.
“The church” as it exists today with its many divisions, is not what Jesus and his apostles began....not even close. (1 Cor 1:10)

To defend your own family is a brave and noble task. When other countries threaten or invade your own country, you have to take up arms by necessity.

Self defense is a whole different thing to participating in the military where you are trained to kill humans in the most heinous fashion.....using weapons that our forefathers would have only envisioned in their worst nightmares.
You cannot “love your enemies” with weapons. We are not to take up carnal weapons out of a misguided sense of indoctrinated patriotism. Jesus never promoted that. (Matt 5:43-44) Humans did. We are not to “return evil for evil”.....but to “conquer evil with good”. (Rom 12:17-21)

Jesus left the world to take care of itself......we are to be “no part” of that world. (John 18:36) There is no justification for any Christian to “bear arms” in order to protect themselves from those who want to go to war with their government. The whole world is governed by satan (1 John 5:19) so we can let the world do whatever it wants.....God is in control of all that takes place because he can allow things in the world to go to the nth degree in order for his will to be accomplished. We are near the end of the greatest object lesson that mankind will ever experience....and we know how it ends.

Where will we find ourselves then? That is the question.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is difficult to evaluate, and there is a very thin line if we choose to judge another persons experience.

I don't think personal experience holds any weight in this discussion.....what does hold weight IMO, is what the word of God says.
God is not the only provider of 'personal experiences'. The deceiver is at work too.

You have no actual way of knowing the origins of the love and peace that is felt by another believer.

Again, I am not here to question what other people feel.....I am here to question how people can justify what God's word condemns....and continue to do so in spite of being shown that its not OK with God to mix his worship with pagan beliefs and practices.
If the scriptures clearly say that we should not touch what is spiritually unclean in God's eyes, then we need to obey what he says...even in the small things. (Luke 16:10)

Now I never felt a strong sense of peace about Christmas , but Easter was one event that did impact me on a spiritual level. That kind of changed last year and suddenly I found myself looking towards the Passover as the right thing to look at when I remember the cross.

Interesting that Christ was identified by John B as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".....the Passover lamb foreshadowed him as the means of salvation when the angel of death came calling during the last of the 10 plagues on Egypt. Unless the blood of the lamb was on the door posts, the firstborn in that household would be put to death....even if they were Israelites. This drives home the importance of obedience in all things.

I do believe that commercialism and other things have crept in to both Christmas and Easter but this doesn’t mean that members here cannot sincerely seek and hear from God at those times, much depends on the motive and heart behind it all.

I believe that more depends on obedience to God's commands, and those in times past felt the sting of his wrath if they failed to carry out what he instructed them to do. They were never left to decide for themselves how they would worship their God.

We also saw this in the first century when the Romans came against Jerusalem under Cestius Gallus. Jesus had instructed his disciples to "flee to the mountains" when they saw "Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies".....the Romans suddenly arrived and laid siege to the city and there was no way out.....what were the Christians to do? They watched and prayed, and inexplicably, for no apparent reason, the Roman armies withdrew and left the scene, leaving the way for the Christians to flee the city as Jesus instructed.....they were told to take nothing with them but a few provisions for the journey. They took refuge in a city called Pella where they waited for news of things back home. A year passed and then two...three and then four. Some may have assumed that Jesus had been mistaken about the event and may have gone home, back to their lives and businesses. But just as suddenly as they had left, the Romans came back under General Titus and again laid siege to the city. This was a time of great tribulation for Jerusalem and her occupants. Those who had failed to obey Jesus' command experienced the outcome of his words....

"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:22-24)

The "times of the gentiles" would take us down to this 21st century. Looming right now, again is a "great tribulation", but on a global scale this time, signalling the end of satan's entire world system. We are living in "the time of the end" foretold by Daniel, and world events are making people very nervous. Students of the Bible know what these things means, and they are out telling others about what the establishment of God's kingdom will mean for redeemed humanity. The greatest tribulation in human history will be followed by an age of peace, and only those who can obey God and his son are going to enjoy what is ahead. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[Rita]

@Aunty Jane , I guess my post was partly a friendly warning not to judge, you did state “ in my opinion “ , which actually is not without fallibility. Another member may feel a level of peace in the way they may choose to remember Jesus Christs birth , it doesn’t mean that they are automatically deceived. I

 

[Mr E]

Again, I am not here to question what other people feel.....I am here to question how people can justify what God's word condemns....and continue to do so in spite of being shown that its not OK with God to mix his worship with pagan beliefs and practices.
If the scriptures clearly say that we should not touch what is spiritually unclean in God's eyes, then we need to obey what he says...even in the small things. (Luke 16:10)

Rather silly.

Just because some people celebrate Christmas or Easter in ways you don't approve of-- that God condemns (you say) as spiritually unclean, don't you do the same thing every time you stroke a key on your keyboard? I mean computers are used for all kinds of evil and some people certainly use them in ways you would not approve-- making them unclean instruments of evil.

Yet here you are.... plucking away. Touch no unclean thing! (not even in small things). You don't see a double-standard in the way you apply your beliefs to others and their practices, but not your own?

 

[Randy Kluth]

What’s amazing to me is that people feel obligated to engage in these celebrations even when they are struggling to make ends meet in their everyday existence.....who made them feel as if it was sacrilegious not to celebrate?

I'm not sure anybody tells those who celebrate Xmas it is sacrilegious not to celebrate? I think most children adapt to conditions in their own family--if the family cannot afford many gifts they are happy when the family is happy.

I haven't celebrated Xmas to any major degree for many years for similar reasons to what you describe--it is an unnecessary expense with little return. But I'm not going to take joy away from my grandson who absolutely adores Xmas! If my relatives want to get together and share a happy meal just as Winter begins, I think that's a great distraction from the expectation of a long, cold Winter!

The happy family time it is supposed to be, is shattered by the break up of families and the bickering that often occurs over where the children will spend “Christmas”......not to mention the escalating levels of domestic violence that also comes fueled with alcohol at that time.....dress it up all you want....God sees all the ugliness....and the secular use of these occasions as commercial events is nothing short of disgusting.

You have a real negative view of things. Commercial activities is someone's job. You call that "evil?"

Please don’t imply that anything that pertained to Israel’s military engagements applies in Christianity.
The only use of Israel’s military was in defense of their God given land and God’s temple....sanctioned and supported by him.
Please tell me whose land today is “God given”? Most of it is stolen from other peoples, who had first claim and with violence and bloodshed. None of that is sanctioned by God at all.

You think God only gave land to the Jewish People? I think God gives land to ethnic groups and societies He chooses to give it to. We should defend our nation against aggressors. God made Israel an example to the world--not an exclusive bunch with special privileges.

Your example of "take no part in the world" is like living on an island, and can never hope to witness to the world the love of Christ. It is entirely too critical and angry. Jesus did not take us out of the world, but made us witnesses to his love. Your love "flunks the test of love," in my opinion. It's entirely too negative and judgmental.

 

[MatthewG]

I’ll tell you this, they believe Jesus Christ came. Died on the cross. He was raised again.

That’s the gospel.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is justification again, based on what you want to believe. The gospel was preached by Jesus’ disciples in all the languages of those who came to Jerusalem for the festival of Pentecost from the surrounding nations. It wasn’t borrowed, but given by God so that those who spoke other languages (because the Jews were scattered in the Diaspora) would hear the Christian message in their own language. This was before Gentiles were accepted into the Christian arrangement. Jesus’ target audience was exclusively Jewish, as he said. (Matt 15:24)
It was Jews who heard the gospel in the languages provided by God’s spirit. (Acts 2:5-11) Remember that God is the originator of all languages.

If we celebrate what is not Christian (and never was) imagining that it’s all OK with God to do that....then I guess we might be among those who try to justify themselves to Jesus at the judgment....

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matt 7:21-23 NKJV)

Who wants to be on the receiving end of that?


This makes me smile.....they were never “Christian” to begin with. You cannot divorce them from their pagan origins because God knows where they came from...he was there observing the pagans worshipping their false gods with the exact same customs and practices.....changing the name doesn’t alter anything.....I believe that you are fooling yourself....but your choices are yours to make about these things.

Well that’s a revelation.....you don’t personally celebrate Christmas or Easter, but ”joining society” in putting up the pretty lights and decorating the house for the Christmas season might show your neighbors that you do.....so what are you showing God?
We are not to “touch” what is unclean in God’s eyes......how it appears to humans is inconsequential.
Not everything the devil does is ugly, or he would not be able to fool the nice people. God never said he was going to save “nice” people...he is going to save obedient ones. Obedience even in the small things is important to God. (Luke 16:10)

In Paul’s day he spoke of the false apostles.....
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.” (2 Cor 11:14-15 NKJV)

Have the false ministers of the counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus foretold, (and seen in today’s world) also done the same thing? Are humans tempted by the “pretty things” and the “selfish greed” that is a common theme in the modern day practice of these things? It promotes all the things that God condemns.
Those who engage in them are judged by what they do, because they have no excuse to justify what the scriptures clearly condemn.

Jane, I don't think our "discussion" is producing anything worth pursuing further--it's more an exercise in judgmentalism than a discussion of the Bible. We would both agree that Christians should not join the pagan world in sinful practices. But we disagree on what exactly "sin" is in the way of practices that once belonged to the "Christian State."

As you say, it is our own responsibility before God to decide whether to observe Xmas and Easter, etc. We are each judged by our own Master.

What we should *not* debate is the need to have Christ's love in our hearts, and to witness to pagans God's love. I can't do that by spending time denouncing their "ungodly" Christian practices, even if they aren't really "Christians."

If their religious celebrations are hollow, how far need I go in denouncing them as "hypocrites?" Do you really think that people who observe religious traditions who are not really "Christian" are doing so to worship ancient gods? I don't think so!

 

[Randy Kluth]

I’ll tell you this, they believe Jesus Christ came. Died on the cross. He was raised again.

That’s the gospel.

That's a bit naïve, Matthew. The Gospel requires that a person embrace the righteousness of Christ for salvation. It is an acknowledgement that we can't do this ourselves, by our own record--that we need Christ's righteousness as well as his perfect record, in order to be saved.

The Gospel, therefore, requires that we not only believe things about Christ but that we actually embrace him in our heart, choosing to walk by his spirituality rather than by our own judgments alone. We walk in partnership with him--that's the Gospel.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

It is not enough to just believe things about Jesus' life--what he did and in his forgiveness. We must "live as Jesus did."

 

[Rita]

@Aunty Jane , I guess my post was partly a friendly warning not to judge, you did state “ in my opinion “ , which actually is not without fallibility. Another member may feel a level of peace in the way they may choose to remember Jesus Christs birth , it doesn’t mean that they are automatically deceived. I

Many apologies @Aunty Jane I took ‘ in my opinion ‘ out of context of what you actually meant Xx

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The rank HERESY that Jesus Christ is a created person, and not Almighty God, YHWH

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

1 Corinthians 15:28
When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

This passage from 1 Corinthians has been very much misunderstood and misused. Take a look at this study I have done on it

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 And the Eternal Reign of Jesus Christ

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 And the Eternal Reign of Jesus Christ “Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Aunty Jane]

The whole point of this thread was to point out “the doctrinal differences between Jehovah’s Witnesses and mainstream Christianity”…..the exchanges here have answered some of them, but certainly not all…..the usual suspects turned up and unloaded their personal opinions, but strangely it has focused on the more emotive things that so many want to justify continuing. That is a personal choice. We all have to make them….but, unless we have a love of the truth, God will allow us to hold on to any “strong delusions” we may have about any of our religious beliefs. It’s how God separates those who love him, from those who merely love what they ”take pleasure” in.

This is “the time of the end”, and we are all on notice. Satan is stalking every one of us, ready to channel our love for Jesus into any one of the thousands of denominations he has created as the “weeds” that Jesus said he would sow in the world. Disunity amid claimed unity is nothing but hypocrisy.

We have to examine even the smaller things, or the big things will not seem important. All the devil needs is the thin edge of the wedge. He has power to convince…but it is an “unrighteousness deception” designed to lead people off on the wrong path.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12…
“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (NKJV)

How does Christendom view their own divisions? They argue about everything, yet somehow see themselves as “the body of Christ”….it is a dismembered, disunited body. Not what Paul described.

What did Paul say…?

“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
When it was brought to their attention that they were following men, rather than being a united body, he asked….
“Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?“ (1 Cor 1:10 NKJV)

All of Christendom’s denominations are the product of following men, and these all hold different views on how scripture should be interpreted…..yet all claim to belong to the same body. All see the paths taken by others as simply different roads leading to the same place……it’s actually true, but the destination may not be what they have been anticipating. (Matt 7:13-14) The majority, Jesus said, are on the wrong road.

At Matt 7:21-23, Jesus let’s these ones know a very chilling truth….”I never knew you! Depart from me you workers of lawlessness!”

How can we be certain that we are on the right road? Jesus said that the “wheat and the weeds” would be identified only at the harvest time, not because of their similarities, but because they would be completely different from one another.
These are the “few” who are on the 'cramped and narrow road' that allows no lies to be passed off as truth.
It is “cramped and narrow” because there are restrictions that the majority find chafing.…and sacrifices that they are not prepared to make.
The differences referred to in the OP, are huge….as I am sure I have demonstrated. I make no apology for telling the truth.

 

[Wrangler]

This passage from 1 Corinthians has been very much misunderstood and misused. Take a look at this study I have done on it

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 And the Eternal Reign of Jesus Christ

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 And the Eternal Reign of Jesus Christ “Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death...

www.christianityboard.com

An intelligent mind can rationalize anything.

Is Matthew 28:18 also misunderstood and misused?​

Is John 17:2-3 also misunderstood and misused?​

And John 20:17?​

Is Romans 10:9 also misunderstood and misused?​

Is Revelation 1:1 also misunderstood and misused?​

How about Rev 3:12?​

Yahweh is God. There is no other God besides him (singular)
Deut 4:35 (emphasis added)

 

[Wrangler]

We have to examine even the smaller things, or the big things will not seem important.

JW Doctrine 101