Was wine non-alcoholic in Jesus's time?

[Dropship]

Matthew 26:27-29 "I will not drink hereforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Wine? Could be an argument to support that we will all drink wine with Him in the Kingdom.

That's me out then, I don't drink wine or any other booze (sniffle).
Tried a few sips of everything in my early teens but it all tasted like cat pee and I haven't touched it since.
But a few naughty women have tried to get me drunk at office parties and I went along with it to be a good sport and as an experiment; at first the earth's axis seemed to have developed a pronounced tilt and I couldn't walk straight, then I began to feel I was wrapped in a comfort blanket and my consciousness was claustrophobically confined to the room and no longer extended into the far reaches of the universe.
Next day after I'd sobered up I was glad to get my brain back..:)

 

[ScottA]

Sometimes I question how you could be a Christian.

Haha...sometimes I question your comprehension. Did I say something wrong?

 

[Raccoon1010]

Ah, speaking of the wedding at Cana....

When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter calls the bridegroom, and says to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have become drunk, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10-11)

I think we know what was served at the wedding feast.

I know some people insist that wine was grape juice in Jesus' time. And all the scriptures support it had alcohol. And as you pointed out often the wine drinkers got drunk. It's really a no brainer.

 

[Raccoon1010]

That's me out then, I don't drink wine or any other booze (sniffle).
Tried a few sips of everything in my early teens but it all tasted like cat pee and I haven't touched it since.
But a few naughty women have tried to get me drunk at office parties and I went along with it to be a good sport and as an experiment; at first the earth's axis seemed to have developed a pronounced tilt and I couldn't walk straight, then I began to feel I was wrapped in a comfort blanket and my consciousness was claustrophobically confined to the room and no longer extended into the far reaches of the universe.
Next day after I'd sobered up I was glad to get my brain back..:)

A cup of wine can make a person drunk as wine has a high alcohol content. I guess it depends on how big your cup is. When we do the bread and wine at church we just take a sip each, and no effect. No one gets buzzed or drunk.

BTW, I think it's great that you stay sober. I think God would support that idea, as the bible only prescribes wine for the bread and wine and for people that are suffering or dying as sort of a pain medication.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is long but worth it. Off topic but not really because (Imo) it addresses how we sometimes read and recirculate what we want or wish it to be saying, instead of what the point might be. Love what he encourages concerning fresh eyes. Love also considering the question of what is the point of Josephs’ story? And what do we tell others is the message.

 

[Stan B]

A cup of wine can make a person drunk as wine has a high alcohol content. I guess it depends on how big your cup is. When we do the bread and wine at church we just take a sip each, and no effect. No one gets buzzed or drunk.

BTW, I think it's great that you stay sober. I think God would support that idea, as the bible only prescribes wine for the bread and wine and for people that are suffering or dying as sort of a pain medication.

1 cup of wine normal won’t make you drunk, although they do have ‘fortified’ wine with 50% more alcohol.

When out at a restaurant, a couple 5 oz glasses of wine keeps you within the old legal limits for driving; but with the new tightened legal limits that might be pushing the envelope.

Our pastor, who is anti-booze, and a medical doctor, when preaching about the last supper, said that after the traditional Passover which includes 4 CUPS of wine explains why the disciples couldn’t stay awake in the Garden of Gethsemane. Of course the initial Passover rules included staying inside the house all night.

 

[Raccoon1010]

1 cup of wine normal won’t make you drunk, although they do have ‘fortified’ wine with 50% more alcohol.

When out at a restaurant, a couple 5 oz glasses of wine keeps you within the old legal limits for driving; but with the new tightened legal limits that might be pushing the envelope.

Our pastor, who is anti-booze, and a medical doctor, when preaching about the last supper, said that after the traditional Passover which includes 4 CUPS of wine explains why the disciples couldn’t stay awake in the Garden of Gethsemane. Of course the initial Passover rules included staying inside the house all night.

Didn't know there was fortified wine. What percentage is that?

Interesting facts. I don't drive if I've had any alcohol as a rule. I think even if they smell it on you they can make you look like your drunk in the courts eyes now days. It's really a shame as someone could drive OK. It's probably all the other crazy drivers at that point that cause the person that had a glass of wine to look guilty of a crime Rant over.

Yes wine makes a person sleepy. So I think your pastor is probably correct.

 

[Lambano]

Tried a few sips of everything in my early teens but it all tasted like cat pee and I haven't touched it since.

Sound like Iron City Beer.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Sound like Iron City Beer.

They have high gravity lager here that tastes like cat pee too. Definately not consumable by humans, maybe the dog would drink it. Not sure what Iron City Beer is as I don't think we have it on the west coast.

 

[ScottA]

Just so I’m not considered against wine. I’ll drink a glass. My question is how do we know in Jesus saying go drink wine that He wasn’t referring to “come all you who thirst, and drink.” What is “wine”?

Same as “drunkard” or “drunk” …as “be not drunk but sober”: is this “be awake” to be literally afraid to sleep in your bed because you might dose off and miss watching …but to be “awake” in “You that sleep, wake up to righteousness” drink could mean full of pride, high on yourself, in the high seat, drunk on power.

A member once mentioned being criticized for using their left hand to write. Whether we use Jesus words against a thing or to support a thing … “Jesus was for wine.” Or “Jesus was against wine.” “Jesus was for guns.” Or “Jesus was against guns.” Because of “go purchase a sword.” ?

No, but it is as I said, "Alcohol is not the problem", and what Jesus clarified, saying, it is "not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

In other words, it is what is in one's heart that defiles or condemns them, not food or drink, or swords or guns. And yes, if it is in one's heart to over drink, etc., it is perhaps not in their heart to be sober before the Lord.

 

[Stan B]

Didn't know there was fortified wine. What percentage is that?

Interesting facts. I don't drive if I've had any alcohol as a rule. I think even if they smell it on you they can make you look like your drunk in the courts eyes now days. It's really a shame as someone could drive OK. It's probably all the other crazy drivers at that point that cause the person that had a glass of wine to look guilty of a crime Rant over.

Yes wine makes a person sleepy. So I think your pastor is probably correct.

Fortified wine runs 18 - 22% alcohol. The one I bought 50 years ago was fortified port from Israel running 18% alcohol. It was more of a ceremonial or desert wine. Not something that would go with dinner. Unfortunately, I can’t find Israeli wine here in Ontario . . . anti-Semitic politics in action.

I tried making fortified wine a couple times. When the fermentation process was finishing, adding another jolt of sugar, honey of corn syrup would re-start the fermentation process adding another 6%, until the alcohol content was sufficient to finally kill off the remaining yeast.

Commercially made wine is most likely to be fortified by the addition of stuff like brandy.

Forty years ago when my kids were in university on a limited budget, they could make a cheap 5 gallon jug of orange wine with a bag of oranges!! They managed to survive. :-)

 

[Raccoon1010]

Fortified wine runs 18 - 22% alcohol. The one I bought 50 years ago was fortified port from Israel running 18% alcohol. It was more of a ceremonial or desert wine. Not something that would go with dinner. Unfortunately, I can’t find Israeli wine here in Ontario . . . anti-Semitic politics in action.

I tried making fortified wine a couple times. When the fermentation process was finishing, adding another jolt of sugar, honey of corn syrup would re-start the fermentation process adding another 6%, until the alcohol content was sufficient to finally kill off the remaining yeast.

Commercially made wine is most likely to be fortified by the addition of stuff like brandy.

Forty years ago when my kids were in university on a limited budget, they could make a cheap 5 gallon jug of orange wine with a bag of oranges!! They managed to survive. :)

I tried making wine once, but I wasn't brave enough to drink it. I just got this feeling "don't try to drink it". So I didn't. I used grape juice, sugar and yeast and warmed it up on the stove.

 

[Stan B]

I tried making wine once, but I wasn't brave enough to drink it. I just got this feeling "don't try to drink it". So I didn't. I used grape juice, sugar and yeast and warmed it up on the stove.

I got the good stuff, a gallon of prepackaged juice from the local winemaking supply store, good for making wine in the usual 5 gallon glass jug. I couldn’t even lift one of those jugs these days! :-)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

There was quite a heated debate in a religious forum a while ago started by people who insisted that the wine of Jesus's time was non-alcoholic.
They insisted that when he turned water into wine and also drank wine at the last supper it must have been non-alcoholic.
What do CB members think?

The water was turned into wine is the issue at hand.
What does that mean is the issue.
It's changed !
It has come into it's own now ? a miracle ? has been transformed formed ?

Now Jesus turned the water into wine ? is that the simple point or is their much more to the issue at hand in the story ?
But what does Jesus say, this was for ? best ?

 

[Lambano]

They have high gravity lager here that tastes like cat pee too. Definately not consumable by humans, maybe the dog would drink it. Not sure what Iron City Beer is as I don't think we have it on the west coast.

Buddy of mine from Pennsylvania says it's popular in the P-burgh area. Actually, I'm not much of a beer drinker; it all tastes like cat pee to me. A notable exception being this double-bock I had in some hole-in-the-wall German restaurant in Norfolk's old-town.

 

[Lambano]

No, but it is as I said, "Alcohol is not the problem", and what Jesus clarified, saying, it is "not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

In other words, it is what is in one's heart that defiles or condemns them, not food or drink, or swords or guns. And yes, if it is in one's heart to over drink, etc., it is perhaps not in their heart to be sober before the Lord.

Yeah, the root cause of the problem is the depravity of the human heart, but we can't fix it. Only God can do that. Until He does, the best we can do is try to contain the problem. So we have to put restrictions on the secondary causes, like alcoholic beverages and drugs and guns. We try behavioral modification with severe social and legal punishments to provide disincentives for drunkenness and intoxication and assault and murder. We do this because that's all we CAN do.

But this doesn't work because it only addresses the symptoms, not the root cause. And because we are all depraved, sometimes the tertiary effects, like draconian human governments, make the cure worse than the disease.

 

[Nancy]

"...and said, “Everyone serves the fine wine first, and then the cheap wine after the guests are drunk. But you have saved the fine wine until now!”
John 2:10

Buddy of mine from Pennsylvania says it's popular in the P-burgh area. Actually, I'm not much of a beer drinker; it all tastes like cat pee to me. A notable exception being this double-bock I had in some hole-in-the-wall German restaurant in Norfolk's old-town.

It is beyond me as to actually how you and Devin know anything at all tastes like cat pee?

 

[Lambano]

It is beyond me as to actually how you and Devin know anything at all tastes like cat pee?

I was afraid someone would bring that up...

 

[Nancy]

I was afraid someone would bring that up...

It's kind of like, how did someone discover that licking a frog could make you high, lol.

 

[Lambano]

It's kind of like, how did someone discover that licking a frog could make you high, lol.

It probably started with:

"See that toad over there, looks like Jabba the Hutt? Five bucks says you ain't man enough to lick it."

"Oh yeah? Here, hold my beer."