Was polygamy a sin?

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TonyChanYT

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A man could have more than one wife in the OT, Deuteronomy 21:

15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love,
Deuteronomy 25:

5 If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead man shall not be married outside the family to a stranger. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her and take her as his wife and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her.
The brother of the dead man could already have a wife of his own and take on one more wife.

2 Samuel 12:

8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.
God not only permitted David to have multiple wives but also gave him wives. True?

What about in the NT?

English Standard Version 1 Timothy 3:

2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.
1 Corinthians 7:

2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
It seems that polygamy was permitted in the OT but discouraged in the New. Matthew 19:

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
 
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Windmill Charge

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Polygamy was never part of God's plan, that is seen I genesis 2 where a man shall leave his parents a d join his wife and the two shall become one.

Polygamy was permitted, and as can be seen in the relationships shown in the bible, it was a source of constant friction.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Yes, the Bible has permitted polygamy, though not encouraging it. For a king it was a practice that on occasion seemed to be desirable due to the greater trust a king can put in his sons and daughters, as opposed to officials that could conspire against him. The same could be said for very wealthy individuals who required the assistance of very large families to avoid conflicts. Within the church and under normal circumstances , a person not managing a kingdom or a large business would want to follow the pattern in Genesis, whereby one woman was created for one man. Not only is managing a smaller family more affordable, but it allows greater time to spend outside of the family business within the church and elsewhere.
 
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St. SteVen

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A man could have more than one wife in the OT, Deuteronomy 21:


Deuteronomy 25:


The brother of the dead man could already have a wife of his own and take on one more wife.

2 Samuel 12:


God not only permitted David to have multiple wives but also gave him wives. True?

What about in the NT?

English Standard Version 1 Timothy 3:


1 Corinthians 7:


It seems that polygamy was permitted in the OT but discouraged in the New. Matthew 19:


8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
A topic worth revisiting at this time.

I don't think the Matthew 19 passage is about polygamy. It is about divorce, and greatly misunderstood. IMHO


The 1 Corinthians 7 reference is interesting. Here we have a church that was manifesting the Holy Spirit in miraculous gifts to the point where the Apostle needed to rein them in. At the same time sexual immorality was rampant.

1 Corinthians 7:2-3 NIV
But since sexual immorality is occurring,
each man should have sexual relations with his own wife,
and each woman with her own husband.
3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife,
and likewise the wife to her husband.

1 Corinthians 5:1-2 NIV
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you,
and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.
2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and
have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?

]
 

Grailhunter

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Yes, the Bible has permitted polygamy, though not encouraging it. For a king it was a practice that on occasion seemed to be desirable due to the greater trust a king can put in his sons and daughters, as opposed to officials that could conspire against him. The same could be said for very wealthy individuals who required the assistance of very large families to avoid conflicts. Within the church and under normal circumstances , a person not managing a kingdom or a large business would want to follow the pattern in Genesis, whereby one woman was created for one man. Not only is managing a smaller family more affordable, but it allows greater time to spend outside of the family business within the church and elsewhere.

Can we count the ways we know that polygamy was practiced and encouraged during and after the biblical period and it was not a sin.

Christians have a tendency to not like a lot of the things in the Old Testament so they go back and re-write the scriptures and history. It is called Christianizing the Old Testament.

For one, the scriptures Old or New Testament never put a stop to polygamy or concubinage. So there was no reason to stop.
The first Christians were Jewish-Christians and in there culture many wives and children were seen as a blessing of God….favor. This is how Polygamy was encouraged that and God took credit for King David's wives. So no reason for the Jewish-Christians not to have multiple wives.

For two, it would be a sticky wicket to tell a Jew with multiple wives that he had to divorce all of them but one to convert to Christianity.

And of course Paul made the stipulation that a church leader had to be married to one wife. Both of those requirements may have been there.

Polygamy was permitted in Judaism throughout the Talmudic period and until the 10th century. (My Jewish learning site and the Jewish Virtual Library)

Martin Luther in his Estate of Marriage said he could not speak against Polygamy because the scriptures do not say anything against Polygamy.

Still after the biblical era things changed. And that is a mental quagmire that a lot of Christians get stuck in. Change is an issue for a lot of Christians. “Bible Only” If it is not in the Bible they do not believe it. If it is different than the Bible they do not believe it. How many times have you heard that said?
They say it but they usually have no idea of the implications of it.

The Bible does not say to stop, Polygamy, Concubinage, Arranged Marriages or slavery....so....

Are you going to have multiple wives?

Do you want your daughter to be part of a Polygamous marriage?

Are you going to sell your daughter as a sex slave….concubine?
Wonder what the going price is now a days?
The Jews preferred to take there wives and concubines before they started menstruating. So sell your daughter for sex at eleven?

How about slaves? Are you going to get some slaves?

And just think, they won’t even need a wedding ceremony. The scriptures Old and New Testament do not state a requirement for a wedding ceremony, vows or rings to be married.

The Bible is the foundation of our beliefs, but the Bible Only way of understanding it is messed up, because the NT only documents the first 65 year of God interacting with Christianity and a lot of things were taught to us by the Holy Spirit since then, just as it was intended. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you". John 14:26

Christians were practicing these things after the NT period.
So the Holy Spirit taught us that Polygamy and Concubinage was wrong. So we but a stop to it.

So the Holy Spirit taught us that arranged marriages was wrong so we put a stop to it.

The scriptures never said to build churches….in the 4th century we decided to build churches.

Wedding ceremonies are a Pagan custom. When the Gentiles converted to Christianity they brought with them the custom of Wedding ceremonies, vows, and rings. Around 1550 AD the Protestants made church weddings a requirement to be married. On November 11th 1563 at the Council of Trent the Catholic Church made weddings a requirement to be married.

So the Holy Spirit taught us that slavery was wrong. So we put a stop to it.

So things have changed…..Christianity is a dynamic religion.
 

Randy Kluth

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Can we count the ways we know that polygamy was practiced and encouraged during and after the biblical period and it was not a sin.
You bring up a lot of issues here, and I'll try to respond one at a time. Yes, as I said, polygamy was allowed in the Bible. However, God made Eve for Adam, and not Eve, Mary, Gabriella, Sarah, and Becky.

It was unnecessary for Adam to have more than one wife. He could treat her as an equal, because she came out of his side, the rib, and was intended to be equal to the task of assisting him in serving God.

And she was sufficient to provide multiple children, who could then produce multiple children. The earth could've been filled in short order, if it wasn't for Sin.
The first Christians were Jewish-Christians and in there culture many wives and children were seen as a blessing of God….favor. This is how Polygamy was encouraged that and God took credit for King David's wives. So no reason for the Jewish-Christians not to have multiple wives.
I don't know--the Wisdom literature of the Bible seems to suggest that multiple wives was a problem for Solomon. So he wrote about what a good wife would be--not multiple wives. He also wrote, in the Proverbs, what a contentious wife could be.

In the NT, we are advised to select church leaders who only have a single wife. Does it need to spell out why?
And of course Paul made the stipulation that a church leader had to be married to one wife. Both of those requirements may have been there.
Yes, and we know why there was polygamy, and why it was discouraged for church leadership. The bigger the entanglements in marriage, the less time for the church.

And we know, from history, that kings and wealthy men had plenteous property and money, and needed lots of children to assist them--relatives they could trust. This is not the ideal, but a reaction to problems relating to trust. It did place financial pressure on the polygamist, who was responsible for caring for all of the wives and all of the children!
Still after the biblical era things changed.
No, the "Biblical Era" did *not* change! Changing traditions and changing social conditions do not trump biblical standards. The same standards remain true to the Bible.

The use of polygamy or the decline of polygamy is not a "green light" to those who wish to go rogue, and deviate from Scriptural Morality. As you already said, polygamy is not prohibited in Scriptures. But we are required to submit to legitimate political authority and the laws of our State, when they are reasonable.
The Bible is the foundation of our beliefs, but the Bible Only way of understanding it is messed up, because the NT only documents the first 65 year of God interacting with Christianity and a lot of things were taught to us by the Holy Spirit since then, just as it was intended. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you". John 14:26
The Holy Spirit never deviates from Biblical Morality, because He inspired the Scriptures! A change in practice of polygamy is not a "green light" to deviate from Biblical Morality!
Christians were practicing these things after the NT period.
So the Holy Spirit taught us that Polygamy and Concubinage was wrong. So we but a stop to it.
No, the Holy Spirit did *not* teach the Church that Polygamy and concubinage was wrong. Same with slavery. Under certain conditions, God has allowed certain practices that under different circumstances would be wrong.

These practices were allowed by God out of concession to the environment of sin, but does not in any way challenge Biblical Morality, nr does it change it. Any so-called "Spirit" that thinks to re-write Scriptures for our day, because it is a different "day," is not the Holy Spirit!

We simply need to recognize that times do change, and some things that are changeable can be changed, or what things appear to change really are just different circumstances. Slavery during war-time may be slavery permitted , but slavery in peace-time may fall under the category of "questionable." See Philemon.
So the Holy Spirit taught us that arranged marriages was wrong so we put a stop to it.
The Holy Spirit never taught us that arranged marriages were wrong. You are saying that--not the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures never said to build churches….in the 4th century we decided to build churches.
That's like saying the Scriptures never spoke in English. Of course not--the language was Hebrews, Aramaic, and Greek!

If the Bible spoke of temples or houses, the NT spoke of churches. They mean the same thing as the OT referred to as gatherings, or assemblies.

In the NT they are called "churches." And as mankind progress according to the mandate to "multiply and fill the earth," there came to be the need to build something bigger than "house-churches."
Wedding ceremonies are a Pagan custom.
I agree that wedding traditions can change. But to claim "weddings" as "paganism" is ludicrous. What pagans practice Christians can practice. When Christians practice weddings, it is a "Christian tradition"--not a "pagan tradition!"
When the Gentiles converted to Christianity they brought with them the custom of Wedding ceremonies, vows, and rings. Around 1550 AD the Protestants made church weddings a requirement to be married. On November 11th 1563 at the Council of Trent the Catholic Church made weddings a requirement to be married.
Things that have pagan origins can be borrowed and used for Christian purposes, just as Paul said a steak dedicated to paganism can be eaten by a Christian who thanks God for it.
So the Holy Spirit taught us that slavery was wrong. So we put a stop to it.

So things have changed…..Christianity is a dynamic religion.
No, Christianity's Rules from the Holy Spirit have not changed. The only thing that changes are things the Scriptures allow to be changed. "I the Lord change not."
 
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Jericho

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Polygamy was permitted, but I don't believe it was ever God's intent as evidenced by Adam and Eve. It was common during Old Testament times, but by the time of the New Testament, it seems to have lost favor. Several couples are mentioned in the New Testament, and they only had one wife. Jesus would reiterate that marriage was between a man and a woman (singular).

Polygamy was actually problematic. Solomon was turned away from God by his many wives. It caused many rivalries between wives in the Old Testament; Leah and Rachel were one example.
 
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Grailhunter

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In the NT, we are advised to select church leaders who only have a single wife. Does it need to spell out why?
No it is obvious. There were Christians that had multiple wives. So there had to be a stipulation.

No, the Holy Spirit did *not* teach the Church that Polygamy and concubinage was wrong. Same with slavery. Under certain conditions, God has allowed certain practices that under different circumstances would be wrong.

These practices were allowed by God out of concession to the environment of sin, but does not in any way challenge Biblical Morality, nr does it change it. Any so-called "Spirit" that thinks to re-write Scriptures for our day, because it is a different "day," is not the Holy Spirit!

We simply need to recognize that times do change, and some things that are changeable can be changed, or what things appear to change really are just different circumstances. Slavery during war-time may be slavery permitted , but slavery in peace-time may fall under the category of "questionable." See Philemon.

Why God allowed and or required certain things that seem wrong or unfair....Like killing a woman that was raped and killing all the women that were not virgins. There are a lot of things about the Mosaic Law that are not Christian. At some point we may understand all that.

That's like saying the Scriptures never spoke in English. Of course not--the language was Hebrews, Aramaic, and Greek!

If the Bible spoke of temples or houses, the NT spoke of churches. They mean the same thing as the OT referred to as gatherings, or assemblies.

In the NT they are called "churches." And as mankind progress according to the mandate to "multiply and fill the earth," there came to be the need to build something bigger than "house-churches."

The term “church” in the NT are referring to congregations.
No Church buildings until after the Edict of Milan in the 4th century.
House churches were congregations worshipping in private residences.

I agree that wedding traditions can change. But to claim "weddings" as "paganism" is ludicrous. What pagans practice Christians can practice. When Christians practice weddings, it is a "Christian tradition"--not a "pagan tradition!"

Keep in mind, we use the term Pagan and Paganism but it is actually a more modern term.

The Gentile were what we call Pagans that converted to Christianity. They stopped worshipping Pagan Gods and started worshipping the Gods of Christianity. But they brought a lot of their customs into Christianity and the Bible did not speak against that.

The requirement for wedding ceremonies is not biblical. And wedding ceremonies are a Pagan custom that Christianity adopted. Which was a very good thing. That does not mean Christianity is Pagan, it means it is Gentile-Christian.

If you look at Christian wedding ceremonies there is a lot of Pagan customs imbedded in them. Which again is not a bad thing.

We are Gentile-Christians, which means our ancestry were Pagans that converted to Christianity. The term Pagan is out of context and puts a sweeping negativity on those that Paul converted. Gentile-Christianity is the sect that survived.

No, Christianity's Rules from the Holy Spirit have not changed. The only thing that changes are things the Scriptures allow to be changed. "I the Lord change not."

As I have said Christians have problems with change.
But stopping Polygamy and Concubinage and Slavery is a change and classifying them as wrong is a change.
 

Grailhunter

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Polygamy was permitted, but I don't believe it was ever God's intent as evidenced by Adam and Eve. It was common during Old Testament times, but by the time of the New Testament, it seems to have lost favor. Several couples are mentioned in the New Testament, and they only had one wife. Jesus would reiterate that marriage was between a man and a woman (singular).

Polygamy was actually problematic. Solomon was turned away from God by his many wives. It caused many rivalries between wives in the Old Testament; Leah and Rachel were one example.

You cannot say that Polygamy was permitted when permitted is a word that is not used.

The Mosaic Law did not permit Polygamy, it regulated it.

The Mosaic Law defined the culture of the Israelites / Jews and Polygamy and Concubinage was part of their culture. To the point that God took credit for King David’s wives. And it was believed that having multiple wives and a lot children was a blessing and a sign of God’s favor….that does not mean permitted.

King Solomon was a good example of why God warned of Kings having too many wives….for one they are distractions of focus and time and effort. But also in that time period taking wives of different cultures was a way of making an accord for peace. Some of King Solomon’s wives were Pagans and he loved them and built temples to their Gods and worshipped with them. Which probably led to his demise.
 

Randy Kluth

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No it is obvious. There were Christians that had multiple wives. So there had to be a stipulation.
No, that was the environment in which a stipulation was made. Paul called for a man with only one wife not just because some had more than one wife, but rather, because those with more than one wife were consumed with so much business that they could not effectively administer the business of the church, as well.
Why God allowed and or required certain things that seem wrong or unfair....Like killing a woman that was raped and killing all the women that were not virgins. There are a lot of things about the Mosaic Law that are not Christian. At some point we may understand all that.
I do understand that. Our liberal minds with the memory of more Christian constitutions in our State leave us wondering how a world can be so saturated with sin that both the leadership and the people should be destroyed in judgment.

However, look at Gaza today. It is difficult to separate Hamas from the people of Gaza, and both are dying in the conflict because the people are glued to their resistance. Even the children are taught from childhood to grow up and be terrorists. At some point, God finds it necessary to completely dispose of a people in order to start fresh from the start.

We dare not judge God for sending a Flood upon the earth and wiping out an entire civilization, man, child, and beast. We dare not judge God for wiping out Canaan, both people and their idolatrous possessions. Because we are innately sinful, it is important to not allow a civilization to get so immersed in sin that the mind is hopelessly infected to the point of addiction or obsession. Deranged memories at some point are apparently fatal?
The term “church” in the NT are referring to congregations.
No Church buildings until after the Edict of Milan in the 4th century.
House churches were congregations worshipping in private residences.
So what? People met in residences--they needed shelter. As the numbers grew, the shelter had to be built bigger to house the people.
Keep in mind, we use the term Pagan and Paganism but it is actually a more modern term.
We could just call "pagans" Canaanites or idolaters? Or, we could call them Gentles. Pagan is a synonym for how the Bible used the term in specific ways under the Old Covenant.
The Gentile were what we call Pagans that converted to Christianity. They stopped worshipping Pagan Gods and started worshipping the Gods of Christianity.
The "Gods"--plural, of Christianity? Christianity does not have a plurality of Gods!
But they brought a lot of their customs into Christianity and the Bible did not speak against that.
So? Some customs that were practiced in idolatrous/pagan cultures were practiced also by Christian cultures later. Who made the customs evil if they could be removed from their pagan, idolatrous environment?
The requirement for wedding ceremonies is not biblical.
Saying something is "unbiblical" seems to connote something evil. But things not mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean it's evil. Skyscrapers are not mentioned in the Bible, but they are not "unbiblical," or "evil!"

Why would the Bible determine that a wedding celebration had to be done in a certain, fixed way? Are people not allowed to be creative with their marriages? Does the Bible prohibit this? No.
As I have said Christians have problems with change.
But stopping Polygamy and Concubinage and Slavery is a change and classifying them as wrong is a change.
The Bible did not change what was wrong and right about concubinage and slavery. It remains allowed under the conditions in which it existed in Bible times. It remains wrong in cases where the practices are abusive, which on some occasions is not the case.

For example, indentured servitude was part of what helped America get started. It was voluntary slavery. Generational Slavery goes beyond the concept God laid out in which people were liberated from their indebtedness every seven years. Once in a lifetime people could have all of their lost properties restored.

Pagans who refused to live by God's laws may have had to endure extended periods of bondage. Paul indicated that a slave owned by Philemon, having become a Christian, might be eligible for liberation. part of this is contract law, when parties to the contract make legitimate, binding promises.

These are just hard truths--not changes in God's moral compass. We can't change God--we must conform to Him.
 

Grailhunter

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No, that was the environment in which a stipulation was made. Paul called for a man with only one wife not just because some had more than one wife, but rather, because those with more than one wife were consumed with so much business that they could not effectively administer the business of the church, as well.

Right I think that was what he was thinking.
But there maybe two stipulations here.
Married and with one wife. Kind of a Jewish tradition for religious leaders.

We dare not judge God for sending a Flood upon the earth and wiping out an entire civilization, man, child, and beast. We dare not judge God for wiping out Canaan, both people and their idolatrous possessions. Because we are innately sinful, it is important to not allow a civilization to get so immersed in sin that the mind is hopelessly infected to the point of addiction or obsession. Deranged memories at some point are apparently fatal?

Right.

So what? People met in residences--they needed shelter. As the numbers grew, the shelter had to be built bigger to house the people.

Not exactly.
The Christians were worshipping in secret to avoid Jewish and Roman harassment. They also worshipped in catacombs and out in the woods.
This went until 313 Ad

We could just call "pagans" Canaanites or idolaters? Or, we could call them Gentles. Pagan is a synonym for how the Bible used the term in specific ways under the Old Covenant.

That is the point, the Bible did not use that term. The word Pagan has a history, but it is not in the Bible.

The term Pagan comes from the Latin and was a slang for rural people, kind of like how we use the word “hick” In the middle ages it developed a more sinister meaning…worshippers of false gods
Anti-Christ…Occult…etc.

Gentile as the Bible uses it means people that were not Jews who converted to Christianity.
 

Grailhunter

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The "Gods"--plural, of Christianity? Christianity does not have a plurality of Gods!
I have already explained this in detail.
Over a hundred scriptures prove you wrong.

God the Father Yahweh

God the Son Yeshua

God the Holy Spirit

Yep there be three of them.

Saying something is "unbiblical" seems to connote something evil. But things not mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean it's evil. Skyscrapers are not mentioned in the Bible, but they are not "unbiblical," or "evil!"

Why would the Bible determine that a wedding celebration had to be done in a certain, fixed way? Are people not allowed to be creative with their marriages? Does the Bible prohibit this? No.

First off unbiblical simply means not in the Bible.
The word wedding does occur in the Old or New Testament nor any type of ceremony to be married.

Again I have explained this. The Gentile-Christian brought the custom of wedding ceremonies into Christianity as Paul's ministry converted them. And although around that time there were certainly weddings and the converts coming from all regions most likely did have different ways of doing it.

Just as a matter of fact history does not record a Christian wedding until the 9th century. Then in around 1550 the Protestants made church weddings a requirement to be married, and the Catholic Church made it a requirement on November 11th 1563 at the Council of Trent.

Before this the union of a couple formed a marriage….just that simple. The Jews had a process for marriage that involved a contract of sorts or the exchange of money or property because females were considered property. Property of the father being sold to the groom.
 

Grailhunter

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For example, indentured servitude was part of what helped America get started. It was voluntary slavery. Generational Slavery goes beyond the concept God laid out in which people were liberated from their indebtedness every seven years. Once in a lifetime people could have all of their lost properties restored.

You are talking a different type of slavery here.
This is not Jewish slavery. The Mosaic Law outline that.
But the whole Roman economic structure was based on slavery.
Slaves of conquered countries were permanent.
Some slaves were treated well and some cruelly....hard labor.
House slaves were owned but dressed nice, housed, and feed so in some ways it was better than a job…

As far as Polygamy and Concubinage as it is now, Christianity considers them wrong and a sin.
 

St. SteVen

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No, that was the environment in which a stipulation was made. Paul called for a man with only one wife not just because some had more than one wife, but rather, because those with more than one wife were consumed with so much business that they could not effectively administer the business of the church, as well.
Agree. That's the point. But the "one wife" requirement reveals that polygamy was common in the early church.

]
 

Randy Kluth

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Agree. That's the point. But the "one wife" requirement reveals that polygamy was common in the early church
What do you base this assertion on? Certainly polygamy was practiced, but what do you base the idea *it was common* on?
 

Randy Kluth

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You are talking a different type of slavery here.
This is not Jewish slavery. The Mosaic Law outline that.
But the whole Roman economic structure was based on slavery.
Slaves of conquered countries were permanent.
Some slaves were treated well and some cruelly....hard labor.
House slaves were owned but dressed nice, housed, and feed so in some ways it was better than a job…

As far as Polygamy and Concubinage as it is now, Christianity considers them wrong and a sin.
You are now talking about what pagan kingdoms thought was normal. What you originally was talking about was this supposed "change" in biblical standards involving concubinage and slavery.
 

Randy Kluth

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The Christians were worshipping in secret to avoid Jewish and Roman harassment. They also worshipped in catacombs and out in the woods.
This went until 313 Ad
I thought you were complaining about Christians starting to build "unbiblical" church structures. If they were public structures then they were *not* secret!
That is the point, the Bible did not use that term. The word Pagan has a history, but it is not in the Bible.
There are a lot of words not in the Bible. There were no English words in the Bible. The equivalent to "pagan" would be "Gentile" or "idolator."
 

Grailhunter

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You are now talking about what pagan kingdoms thought was normal. What you originally was talking about was this supposed "change" in biblical standards involving concubinage and slavery.

Yes change
The Old and New Testaments continued Polygamy and Concubinage and slavory.
We do not.....ergo change

My point with Roman slaves is that it was part of nearly every culture back then.

And again I am not saying it was wrong by their standards, I am saying it is wrong by our Christian standards. And again I am saying although it was not time to change this back then, I am saying the Holy Spirit taught us a higher set of morals.
 

Grailhunter

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I thought you were complaining about Christians starting to build "unbiblical" church structures. If they were public structures then they were *not* secret!

Oh no....all good.

There are a lot of words not in the Bible. There were no English words in the Bible. The equivalent to "pagan" would be "Gentile" or "idolator."

Yes I know I have a college degree in Theology and biblical languages.

Not my point. The norm back then were non-Jewish and non-Christian. Jews and Christians made up less than 1% of the populous back then.

Romans and such being the norm, there were no negative words for the norm. The Romans considered the Jews heathens and the Christians as what we would consider a cult.

History is a matter of perspective of the time period and peoples. If you read the Bible or history like the latest edition of the local Sunday Paper, you are not going to understand what is going on.