WAS PETER ACCURSED?

[Verily]

Luke 6:13, Jesus called together His disciples and chose 12 men whom He called Apostles. They are named in Matthew 10:2-4.

Luke 9:1-6, Jesus sent forth the 12 Apostles to preach the Gospel, heal the sick, and cast out demons.

Luke 10:1 Jesus picked 72 more to go forth and teach in groups of 2

When Judas killed himself, they read the Psalm, which said,

Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

And that fell to Matthias who was chosen by lot to take Judas place

Acts 1:2 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles

James was also killed here

Acts 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.

Acts 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

Soon after that

Acts 12:25 And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem, when they had fulfilled their ministry, and took with them John, whose surname was Mark.

And being here it says

Acts 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

These two were to be separated for the work they were called to by the Holy Ghost

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

No lots were cast here but the Holy Ghost, and it says

Acts 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

But were sent forth by the Holy Ghost

Acts 13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

These two had John to their minister

Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

The next chapter is the first time Paul is spoken of as an apostle as with Barnabas (and no longer referred to as Saul) shortly after the Holy Ghost sent the two out together

Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out

 

[Doug]

On my view Christ warned against Paul's arrival. Paul even fulfilled much of what Jesus said would be said by those we were not to believe and that would come after Jesus had ascended.

Implying by their arrival that Jesus left before He was finished in His Earthly mission.

Even Revelation shows us Jesus warning again against Saul-Paul. Revelation 2:2
(Acts 23:6)

The lightening equivocation does not change the fact Jesus did not ascend as a light. He would not make a second coming in the Damascus road and appear to a murderer Pharisee.

thanks

 

[Doug]

Consider this.
Satan tempted Jesus when Jesus was in the Desert during His fast.
Jesus wrested the power of death from Satan on the cross.

Satan however remains Lord of this world.

What better way to pursue disrupting the Gospel good news Jesus sealed with His blood after Jesus was gone home?

When Paul ,Saul,a Pharisee as he identified himself in present tense during his trial before the Sanhedrin, said even Satan can appear as an angel of light? (Damascus road light. Three different accounts of that encounter in scripture. Some where the companions heard a voice. Another where they did not)

I mean this with respect. Do the research yourself.
Paul/Saul contradicted Jesus teachings.

Many of the faithful have done so,researched.

Jesus told His anointed,anointed by Him,to go to the Gentiles with His Gospel. And go into all the world,which of course meant to non-Jews.

What better way to cause division in the world,adversity,than to get a Pharisee,remembering Jesus' scathing condemnation of them during His illegal trial, to go to Jews and non,-Jews wirh "His" ,as Paul referred to it at least 11 times, gospel.

Jesus taught Baptism. Paul said Jesus didn't send Him to Baptize?

Do the research.

Jesus gave His life to seal the New Covenant.
Would He lead His anointed Apostles to levy a curse on anyone who came after them and preached a different Gospel? When there is only one?

The one Jesus said would come after Him was Holy Spirit. The Comforter.

Not a Pharisee.

ok

 

[pepper]

Okay, here we go, please note that account number one is not Paul speaking. No one doing the speaking would write, " And the men which journeyed WITH HIM stood speechless..."

He would say, "" And the men which journeyed WITH ME stood speechless..."

# 1

This first account describes Paul's Journey but is being told by Luke

Acts 9:1-19 This account describes Paul’s journey to Damascus where he encounters a bright light and falls to the ground. He is blinded and later healed by Ananias, who also baptizes him.

See it?

[7] And the men which journeyed WITH HIM stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.


So your quarrel wouldn't be with Paul (but Luke) because Paul's accounts follow after


# 2

This account is Paul's own account to the Jews

Acts 22:1-21 In this account, Paul recounts his conversion to a crowd of Jews in Jerusalem. He describes the bright light, his fall to the ground,
and his encounter with Ananias.

See it?

9] And they that were WITH ME saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.



# 3

This account is Paul's own account to the King

Acts 26:9-23 Here, Paul recounts his conversion to King Agrippa in Caesarea. He describes the light, his fall, and his encounter with Ananias, emphasizing his
commission to the Gentiles. These accounts provide slightly different perspectives on the same event, reflecting the context and audience for each retelling.

See it again?

[13] At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed WITH ME.
[14] And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue,

Here Paul describes the light about all of them. He pretty much says what he said in his second account, only he says nothing about them not hearing the voice he was hearing (only that he heard a voice speaking to me) and not to them.

I keep doing my research over and over again as you tell us to, and keep finding these accusations against Paul falling flat.

They don't fall flat. Differing accounts of an encounter with a light is substantial. Heard a voice. Didn't hear a voice.

 

[Verily]

They don't fall flat. Differing accounts of an encounter with a light is substantial. Heard a voice. Didn't hear a voice.

Which ones contradict, the closest one you could dispute is #1 and I already showed you proof that Paul is not speaking by the way the wording is framed, #2 and #3 is Paul speaking. So it falls flat.

# 1 which is not him telling it, simply says

Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Such confusion as to what people hear has never been seen before I am sure

John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

The words apparently were not heard if what was spoken was heard as thunder

 

[Doug]

They don't fall flat. Differing accounts of an encounter with a light is substantial. Heard a voice. Didn't hear a voice.

[Act 2:6 KJV] 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

This verse may have escaped our understanding....we think did he hear or not...could be they heard a voice but not in their language and therefore could not understand it
Look at the verse above....it associates heard and understanding language

 

[Doug]

Which ones contradict, the closest one you could dispute is #1 and I already showed you proof that Paul is not speaking by the way the wording is framed, #2 and #3 is Paul speaking. So it falls flat.

# 1 which is not him telling it, simply says

Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Such confusion as to what people hear has never been seen before I am sure

John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

The words apparently were not heard if what was spoken was heard as thunder

This verse may have escaped our understanding....we think did he hear or not...could be they heard a voice but not in their language and therefore could not understand it
Look at the verse above....it associates heard and understanding language

I wrote this to pepper and wanted to share with you

 

[Verily]

This verse may have escaped our understanding....we think did he hear or not...could be they heard a voice but not in their language and therefore could not understand it
Look at the verse above....it associates heard and understanding language

I wrote this to pepper and wanted to share with you

That could very well be too, Pepper is holding the account that was not given as by Paul against Paul who gave acounts two and three (these are more in line) on that one thing. I do not know who his two associates were though, or the language as far as any barrier, although the same thing can be shown with Jesus when the Fathers voice spake from heaven, we are given the words he spake to him but we are also given what the others heard and it differed between them and I believe they were all of the same tongue there.

 

[Doug]

I believe they were all of the same tongue there.

[Act 9:7 KJV] 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
[Act 22:9 KJV] 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
[Act 26:14 KJV] 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

I said it could be that those with Paul heard a voice but heard not because they didnt hear it in their language
Note Christ spoke in Hebrew (v14) maybe those with Paul didnt...maybe
There is nothing in these verses saying they were of the same tongue

 

[Doug]

Paul's own testimony tells us he was not in Christ. He was in the flesh.

[Rom 7:18 KJV] 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
[Rom 8:1 KJV] 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Paul was saying that in the flesh he could not keep the law. He is saying there was no condemnation in walking after the Spirit.

[Rom 8:3-4 KJV] 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Paul tells us that the law is fulfilled in the Spirit

[Rom 16:7 KJV] 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Paul said he was in Christ

 

[Doug]

He also contradicts Jesus teachings in many cases.

Paul did not contradict Jesus...Jesus revealed to Paul all he taught
What Jesus taught the twelve and Israel was to confirm the promises made to Israel
What Jesus taught Paul was a new dispensation

 

[Verily]

[Act 9:7 KJV] 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
[Act 22:9 KJV] 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
[Act 26:14 KJV] 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

I said it could be that those with Paul heard a voice but heard not because they didnt hear it in their language
Note Christ spoke in Hebrew (v14) maybe those with Paul didnt...maybe
There is nothing in these verses saying they were of the same tongue

I heard what you said, which is why I responded the way I did, reread it

That could very well be too, Pepper is holding the account that was not given as by Paul against Paul who gave acounts two and three (these are more in line) on that one thing. I do not know who his two associates were though, or the language as far as any barrier, although the same thing can be shown with Jesus when the Fathers voice spake from heaven, we are given the words he spake to him but we are also given what the others heard and it differed between them and I believe they were all of the same tongue there.

In otherwords, it did not even matter in Jesus case whether they all spake the same tongue, what some heard was not what others heard.

And so anyone could say, "while hearing they hear not" even that case I suppose.

 

[pepper]

Paul did not contradict Jesus...Jesus revealed to Paul all he taught
What Jesus taught the twelve and Israel was to confirm the promises made to Israel
What Jesus taught Paul was a new dispensation

Why would the ascended Jesus need to do that?

 

[Doug]

Why would the ascended Jesus need to do that?

[Col 1:20 KJV] 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

To manifest all He accomplished on the cross
Through Peter he reconciled the earth
Through Paul he reconciled heaven

 

[pepper]

[Col 1:20 KJV] 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

To manifest all He accomplished on the cross
Through Peter he reconciled the earth
Through Paul he reconciled heaven

While Jesus said atonement has no application until and unless we reconcile with the one(s) we offended.

Matthew 5:22-26​

American Standard Version​

​

22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother [a]shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, [b]Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, [c]Thou fool, shall be in danger [d]of the [e]hell of fire. 23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee, 24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary [f]deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Matthew 5:22 Many ancient authorities insert without cause.
2. Matthew 5:22 An expression of contempt.
3. Matthew 5:22 Or, Moreh, a Hebrew expression of condemnation.
4. Matthew 5:22 Greek unto or into.
5. Matthew 5:22 Greek Gehenna of fire.
6. Matthew 5:25 Some ancient authorities omit deliver thee.

 

[Doug]

While Jesus said atonement has no application until and unless we reconcile with the one(s) we offended.

Matthew 5:22-26​

American Standard Version​

​

22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother [a]shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, [b]Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, [c]Thou fool, shall be in danger [d]of the [e]hell of fire. 23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee, 24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary [f]deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Matthew 5:22 Many ancient authorities insert without cause.
2. Matthew 5:22 An expression of contempt.
3. Matthew 5:22 Or, Moreh, a Hebrew expression of condemnation.
4. Matthew 5:22 Greek unto or into.
5. Matthew 5:22 Greek Gehenna of fire.
6. Matthew 5:25 Some ancient authorities omit deliver thee.

Jesus was talking to his disciples and about entering the earthly kingdom (Matthew 5:1 5:20) and the nature of the kingdom

 

[pepper]

Jesus was talking to his disciples and about entering the earthly kingdom (Matthew 5:1 5:20) and the nature of the kingdom

So,while here Jesus left something out?

And after ascension and about eight or nine years later Jesus realized there was something He forgot to teach?
And then He enlisted a murderous Pharisee intent on destroying Christs people to teach what Emmanuel forgot to?

 

[Verily]

A Murderer being release in place of Christ in order to kill the prince of life is shown here in Acts 3 also

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

But here it says,

Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

Even as Jesus said,

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Jesus said, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

As they would do unto Stephen, and so here was Saul

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death.

As Jesus said again,

Yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Saul doing just that

Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

In his religious zeal, persecuting the church, because again

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

And so when he was on the road again to do what his bad self was going to do

Jesus steps in finally and says,

Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Who art thou, Lord?

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Again, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Just as with these

Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

And just as they could receive forgiveness for doing what they did through ignorance Paul did the ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Then he speaks of the exceedingly abundant grace of God with faith and love that come to him

1 Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Because Christ died for sinners, of whom Paul said was chief.

1 Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Now in Paul Christ could shew forth his longsuffering to those who should believe him hereafter

1 Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1 Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

 

[Doug]

So,while here Jesus left something out?

And after ascension and about eight or nine years later Jesus realized there was something He forgot to teach?
And then He enlisted a murderous Pharisee intent on destroying Christs people to teach what Emmanuel forgot to?

He purposed this all along...He knew Israel would reject him....through Israel's unbelief and fall he could have mercy on all
God will reconcile heaven through Paul and formation of the body of Christ and God isnt done with Israel,,,a remnant will reconcile the earth

 

[pepper]

He purposed this all along...He knew Israel would reject him....through Israel's unbelief and fall he could have mercy on all
God will reconcile heaven through Paul and formation of the body of Christ and God isnt done with Israel,,,a remnant will reconcile the earth

None of that is true.

Salvation is through Christ alone. The Savior of the world.

You think God would enlist a murderous Pharisee to do all that you claimed above? After Saul/Paul had held the cloak of Stephen after leading people to stone Stephen to death because Stephen followed the Messiah.

Saul/Paul, an unrepentant murderer and Pharisee!

What did Jesus call the Pharisees and Saducees while on Earth?

Ye blind guides (Matt. 23:16).

2. Ye fools (Matt. 23:17).

3. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees…for ye are like whited supulchres…full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness (Matt. 23:27).

4. Ye serpents (Matt. 23:33).

5. Ye generation of vipers (Matt. 23:33).

6. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! (Luke 11:44).

7. Ye are as graves which appear not (Luke 11:44).

Names Jesus Called the Scribes and Pharisees | Bible.org

1. Ye blind guides (Matt. 23:16).2. Ye fools (Matt. 23:17).3. Woe unto you, scribes and Phariseesfor ye are like whited supulchresfull of dead mens bones, and of all uncleanness (Matt. 23:27).4. Ye serpents (Matt. 23:33).5. Ye generation of vipers (Matt. 23:33).6. Woe unto you, scribes and...

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