Was Mary sinless?
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Augustin56
Well-Known Member
You really believe one fully human person throughout history lived a perfect life? Why did Jesus say there is none born of a woman greater than John the Baptist? And even John was no perfect or sinless bc if they were wouldn't they have fulfilled the law
Jesus and His Mother lived perfectly holy lives. God Ab Aeterno would've Thought of creating the soul that was to be the soul of the Mother of God. Therefore, He preserved Mary's soul from becoming subject to the law of the first parents (inheriting original sin), thus remaining an immaculate soul capable of possessing the fullness of His Grace, and then infused it into the embryo at the moment of Her conception. These factors, coupled with Mary being conceived by and born of two Just human parents, and having a natural good will, resulted in Her being without sin and thus a worthy dwelling place for God Incarnate, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Savior, the most Holy and Perfect One, to take form in, etc.
Do you really believe that God, the Most Holy and Pure One, Incarnated Himself within One Who is not completely Pure, when He didn't have to?
Jesus said, "among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he" (Lk. 7:28). "The one" is a singular individual who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven and greater than John. Who is that individual? It is Jesus. Here's Jesus's words in full as found in scriptural writings that make up The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God:
"John is more than a prophet. He is more than many saints, because he is the one of whom it is written: "Look, I am going to send my angel to prepare Your way before You" (Malachi: 3:1). Angel. Consider this. You know that the angels are pure spirits created by God to His spiritual likeness and placed as a link between man, the perfection of the visible and material creation, and God, the Perfection of Heaven and Earth, Creator of the spiritual Kingdom and of the animal kingdom. Even in the holiest man there is always flesh and blood forming an abyss between him and God. And the abyss subsides under the weight of sin that weighs down also what is spiritual in man. So God created the angels, creatures reaching the summit of the creation scale, just as minerals lie at its base, minerals being the dust forming the earth and inorganic materials in general. They are clear mirrors of the Thought of God, willing flames operating out of love, ready to understand, quick in acting, free in willing as we are, but their entirely holy will ignores the rebellion and incentive of sin. That is what the angels adoring God are, His messengers to men, our protectors, who grant us the Light that shines on them and the Fire that they gather worshiping.
John is called "angel" by the prophetic word. And I said: "Of all the children born of women, a greater one than John the Baptist has never been seen." Yet the least in the Kingdom of Heaven will be greater than John-man. Because one of the Kingdom of Heaven is a son of God and not of woman."
your question makes no sense. God did not have to come down to be our Savior. He choose to come as fully human yet fully God. He lived among us as us. There was noone perfect that is why He came to become the sacrifice.
God- Father, Son and Spirit, is the only one perfect, & the only ONE who is good. We all fall short. The whole reason we need Him. if we could be sinless on our own we would not need Jesus. I think you really need to think about that.
God- Father, Son and Spirit, is the only one perfect, & the only ONE who is good. We all fall short. The whole reason we need Him. if we could be sinless on our own we would not need Jesus. I think you really need to think about that.
God Ab Aeterno would've Thought of creating the soul that was to be the soul of the Mother of God. Therefore, He preserved Mary's soul from becoming subject to the law of the first parents (inheriting original sin), thus remaining an immaculate soul capable of possessing the fullness of His Grace, and then infused it into the embryo at the moment of Her conception. These factors, coupled with Mary being conceived by and born of two Just human parents, and having a natural good will, resulted in Her being without sin and thus a worthy dwelling place for God Incarnate, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Savior, the most Holy and Perfect One, to take form in, etc.
That is why I asked: Do you really believe that God, the Most Holy and Pure One, Incarnated Himself within One Who is not completely Pure, especially when He didn't have to take form in an impure human, because He's capable of making Their soul Pure ? Yes or no?
Yes, He is so Good and that shows how much He loves us. He did not have to come through a human, He did not have to come as a baby or to a nobody, to be raised by a carpenter in Nazareth. He came for the broken and lost, the sinners.
I believe you have a different view of God than the God of the Bible. Read John and Hebrews again. I pray that you can see how great God is so you can be in awe of Him.
I'm not talking about what you seem to think. I'm talking about how God didn't need to take form in an impure woman, whereas you think He had to take form in an impure woman. However, He didn't have to, because He's capable of keeping Her soul pure.
I am not saying what I think, I am telling you what He said.
God also did not need to use all the broken sinful people He does but He does. You clearly must not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit since you are not perfect and holy. Why would He live in you?
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Even if @Nephesh is Catholic, does that automatically mean he is not speaking the truth?
Clearly? since you are not perfect and holy. Why would He live in you? No one is qualified to make such rash judgements. The prot-god has no power to prevent Mary from original sin, a clear biblical teaching found in Romans 5, abandoned by relativist liberals at an alarming rate, with 18th century fad theology.
God didn't have to make Mary sinless, He chose to.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Sin comes from the "blood line" and Mary's comes from Adam, just like any other sinner.
No accepted BIBLE teaches that Mary was sinless.
Mary came from the line of David.
She was not created by God, inside some virgin's womb.
This "sinless mary" is a Cult teaching that is associated with the "Cult of the VIRGIN",.
Jesus didnt have Mary's Blood, as the Mother's blood does not flow in the baby's body.
BreadOfLife
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It’s easier to understand the sinlessness of Mary once you understand her role as Ark of the New Covenant (Jesus).
The Ark of the Covenant was a holy vessel that was made of pure materials and blessed inside and out because it carried symbols of God’s power.
OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.
OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)
OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)
OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)
OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)
OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).
In the Book of Revelation, we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19:
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.
The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1):
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Verse 2 says:
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.
We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read:
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.
There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Rev. 12 is Mary.
The Ark of the Covenant was a holy vessel that was made of pure materials and blessed inside and out because it carried symbols of God’s power.
OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.
OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)
OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)
OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)
OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)
OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).
In the Book of Revelation, we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19:
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.
The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1):
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Verse 2 says:
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.
We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read:
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.
There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Rev. 12 is Mary.
BreadOfLife
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Yes - God id totally incapable of creating a person without sin.
What a pathetic, powerless little god you’ve invented for yourself . . .
He certainly had her DNA in His blood
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
More than that.
The phenomena of fetal microchimerism describes the presence of living cells from a different individual in the body of placental mammals . The placenta generally serves as a bridge between the fetus and the mother for exchange of nutrients and wastes. But that is not all that crosses this bridge—fetal and maternal cells can cross between the two organisms intact. While maternal cells do end up in the fetus, significantly more fetal cells are transferred to the mother.3 The result is that the mother carries a small number of foreign cells belonging to her fetus within her body—hence the name “microchimerism.” While these non-maternal cells are few in number in comparison to total number of maternal cells, evidence suggests that these transplanted cells can actually remain for long after the end of gestation. In fact, derivative fetal cells have been found in the mother’s body up to 27 years after pregnancy.4
Fetal Microchimerism – Harvard Science Review
harvardsciencereview.com
Science proves Jesus' mother had His cells in her body long after the Virgin Birth, as do all mothers with children. Denial of this scientific fact is a re-wrapped heresy of Docetism.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Actually God created JESUS, as sinless inside a Virgin., and before Jesus He created ADAM as sinless, and God made Him out of dirt.
Once Adam sinned, then this became the "fall of adam" that is the fall of us all..
The Law and Commandments, reveal the sin that is in everyone who came from Adam, and that is Mary-MOG...., you, your Mother, my Grandmother, Calvin, Jerome, and all the false Popes, and Billy Graham, and everyone else on this forum and ever born since Adam.
The law and commandments show us our SIN, inside, so that we can go to the Cross of Christ and get this SOLVED by Him.
Welcome To Salvation... (See Jesus alone for The GIFT of Eternal Life).
Adam = One mans sin, caused the sin of us all., because we are all of the "Adamic" nature who came from Adam, and Mary came from Adam.
Never forget that..... @BreadOfLife
The TRUTH is good for you, even if you and the "cult of the virgin".... don't believe it.
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No the reasoning of God would not indwell in Mary if she was a sinner... then the Holy Spirit would not be in us either as the Holy Spirit is God.
you believe what you want but I will believe in God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and no one or nothing compares. He is the only Creator, only Savior, only Redeemer, and the only One I will pray to and look for answers.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
A non-sequitur fallacy. God didn't have to make Mary sinless, He chose to. Each individual woman believer does not bear God in their womb, only one. Each individual believer does not have the same capacity of being "full of grace" as declared by an angel of God.
Good for you.
BreadOfLife
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Mary’s sinlessness is the exception to the rule.
The Bible gives us other exceptions – Enoch and Elijah, for example. According to the Wor dof God:
Heb. 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, . . .
Ummm, didn’t Lazarus die TWICE??
How about the little girl that Jesus raised up?
According to Jesus Himself, we must be BAPTIZED in order to be saved.
The Thief on the cross was guaranteed a place in Heaven, yet had never been Baptized (Luke 23:43).
That’s FIVE exceptions right there. But, according to YOU – God can’t make an exception for His Son’s mother.
You're pretty good at making snarky posts - but you'tr terroble ay defending your positions.
What a pathetic lack of faith . . .
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Do you believe that God is capable or incapable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting original sin, thus remaining an immaculate soul?
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