Was Mary sinless?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
@Augustin56
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Here is "catholic created".. (Top 10).
1.) "Cult of the Virgin" "Cult of Mary"
2.) "Mary as Mediatrix"
3.) Baptismal Regeneration
4.) Transubstantiation
5.) Penance
6.) "Priests can't marry", and yet the bible says that PETER had a wife who was with Him in his ministry., and Paul's epistle teaches that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of Devil's".
7.) "Ascension of Mary"
8.) "Perpetual virgin" and "Queen of heaven"... However, both those are taken from the Pagan Goddess Diana. (Theology).
9.) "Popes"
10.) "Church Fathers"
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Here is "catholic created".. (Top 10).
1.) "Cult of the Virgin" "Cult of Mary"
2.) "Mary as Mediatrix"
3.) Baptismal Regeneration
4.) Transubstantiation
5.) Penance
6.) "Priests can't marry", and yet the bible says that PETER had a wife who was with Him in his ministry., and Paul's epistle teaches that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of Devil's".
7.) "Ascension of Mary"
8.) "Perpetual virgin" and "Queen of heaven"... However, both those are taken from the Pagan Goddess Diana. (Theology).
9.) "Popes"
10.) "Church Fathers"
Behold
Well-Known Member
1.) "Cult of the Virgin" "Cult of Mary" (Mere polemic.)
The History of the "cult of the Virgin", states that the original Title of the Catholic Religion was : "Cult of the Virgin".
2.) "Mary as Mediatrix" (Not a doctrine. Try again.)
Ok, then its just a Catholic Lie..
Let's go with that, and im with you.... @Augustin56
"""""Mediatrix is a title given to Mary, mother of Jesus in Catholicism. It refers to the intercessory role of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a mediator in the salvific redemption by her son Jesus Christ and that he bestows graces through her.""""
3.) Baptismal Regeneration (Biblical - John 3:5)
That is taken from the Douay Rheims (Demonic) Catholic bible that teaches this Cross Rejecting Lie.
"Born again.... BY Water"...
And that is a LIE, as Christians are "Born again BY the Holy Spirit"... not by WATER as the "cult of the Virgin" teaches as their : Galatians 1:8
4.) Transubstantiation (Biblical - John 6)
No Catholic Priest has "magical power" to change the cookie and fruit juice into "the literal body of Christ".
So, that is more "Catholic" religiosity, pretending to be biblical.
5.) Penance (Biblical - John 20:19-23_
Jesus is the "one time Eternal Sacrifice for Sin", which eliminates any "self effort" to be "made clean", as the "cult of the virgin" teaches as "penance'.. And in fact, it was JEROME who mistranslated "Repentance" as "Penance" and Martin Luther recognized this LIE< and that is one of the Reason that He began to research more of Jerome's mistranslations, and this is part of the basis regarding How Martin Luther began to recognize that the "cult of the Virgin" is a man made religious system, that is to be avoided.
6.) "Priests can't marry", (Again, not a doctrine. A discipline.)
The "cult of the Virgin" will not allow Men who want to have a normal sex life, and a wife, become a : Catholic Priest.
So, you can try to spin that all you like, but its a "Doctrine of Devils' that produces Priests as pedophiles.
7.) "Ascension of Mary" (No such doctrine in the Catholic Church. Mary was "assumed" not "ascended")
Your useless Nomenclature is trying to hide the fact that the "cult of the virgin" teaches that Mary flew to heaven, in her dead body.
8.) "Perpetual virgin" and "Queen of heaven"... However, both those are taken from the Pagan Goddess Diana. (Theology). (From Scripture, if properly interpreted.)
Its taken from Pagan Theology, (The Goddess Diana).
You should study that... and find out where it originated.
9.) "Popes" (Perpetual office established by Jesus Christ in Matt. 16:18-19)
Peter is not the "rock" the church is built on.
Its the revelation that Peter had, = that Christ is Son of God, is the "rock" is the "revelation" ..
"And that ROCK was Christ"... , not Peter.
10.) "Church Fathers" (The earliest Christians)
The Earliest Christians are found in the NT...
Even you should understand this "historical data". @Augustin56
The History of the "cult of the Virgin", states that the original Title of the Catholic Religion was : "Cult of the Virgin".
2.) "Mary as Mediatrix" (Not a doctrine. Try again.)
Ok, then its just a Catholic Lie..
Let's go with that, and im with you.... @Augustin56
"""""Mediatrix is a title given to Mary, mother of Jesus in Catholicism. It refers to the intercessory role of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a mediator in the salvific redemption by her son Jesus Christ and that he bestows graces through her.""""
3.) Baptismal Regeneration (Biblical - John 3:5)
That is taken from the Douay Rheims (Demonic) Catholic bible that teaches this Cross Rejecting Lie.
"Born again.... BY Water"...
And that is a LIE, as Christians are "Born again BY the Holy Spirit"... not by WATER as the "cult of the Virgin" teaches as their : Galatians 1:8
4.) Transubstantiation (Biblical - John 6)
No Catholic Priest has "magical power" to change the cookie and fruit juice into "the literal body of Christ".
So, that is more "Catholic" religiosity, pretending to be biblical.
5.) Penance (Biblical - John 20:19-23_
Jesus is the "one time Eternal Sacrifice for Sin", which eliminates any "self effort" to be "made clean", as the "cult of the virgin" teaches as "penance'.. And in fact, it was JEROME who mistranslated "Repentance" as "Penance" and Martin Luther recognized this LIE< and that is one of the Reason that He began to research more of Jerome's mistranslations, and this is part of the basis regarding How Martin Luther began to recognize that the "cult of the Virgin" is a man made religious system, that is to be avoided.
6.) "Priests can't marry", (Again, not a doctrine. A discipline.)
The "cult of the Virgin" will not allow Men who want to have a normal sex life, and a wife, become a : Catholic Priest.
So, you can try to spin that all you like, but its a "Doctrine of Devils' that produces Priests as pedophiles.
7.) "Ascension of Mary" (No such doctrine in the Catholic Church. Mary was "assumed" not "ascended")
Your useless Nomenclature is trying to hide the fact that the "cult of the virgin" teaches that Mary flew to heaven, in her dead body.
8.) "Perpetual virgin" and "Queen of heaven"... However, both those are taken from the Pagan Goddess Diana. (Theology). (From Scripture, if properly interpreted.)
Its taken from Pagan Theology, (The Goddess Diana).
You should study that... and find out where it originated.
9.) "Popes" (Perpetual office established by Jesus Christ in Matt. 16:18-19)
Peter is not the "rock" the church is built on.
Its the revelation that Peter had, = that Christ is Son of God, is the "rock" is the "revelation" ..
"And that ROCK was Christ"... , not Peter.
10.) "Church Fathers" (The earliest Christians)
The Earliest Christians are found in the NT...
Even you should understand this "historical data". @Augustin56
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
My recommendation to you is to learn what the Catholic Church actually teaches before trying to bash it. How are you different than the Pharisees who "knew" God's teaching, yet persecuted Jesus Christ? They were SO certain that they were right.
Jesus identifies as one with His Church, which historically can ONLY be the Catholic Church. When Saul (St. Paul by his Hebrew name) was going around persecuting the first Christians, Jesus knocked him off his (high) horse and asked him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" (Acts 9:4) Note that Jesus didn't say, "...why do you persecute My Church?" which he was clearly doing, but "...why do you persecute Me?" Jesus identifies as one with His Church! Persecute His Church and you persecute Christ!
Behold
Well-Known Member
The reality is, you are an : "isolated Theological mindset"...
You're posts prove you are trapped in a mental theological cube : = "i only know what my church taught me to think so, i come and parrot this".
You're posts completely indcate that you are this...= "ive been a Catholic since i was an infant"... as you are so indoctrinated that you can't even comprehend any type of Theology or argument, outside of "Traditions of the Church", or "Here is what the Church Father's wrote"...."let me cut and paste it again, and again, and again"..................>.
You are what is referred to as a : Religious Cult "institutionalized", for life. @Augustin56
And remember, i have no issues with Catholics, the PEOPLE>... as many of my Favorite Christians are "canonized Saints.."
I adore (only) the spirituality.. of many like Hildegard of Bingen, or Bernadette Soubirous, or St France, or many others i can name.
However, the "cult of the virgin".. the doctrine, the theology, is just the most corrupted man made religion, other then Islam.
Now, Calvinism, as (TULIP) as a Total Doctrine, is the hellish worst case , but the "cult of Mary (Virgin)" has so much man made doctrine.... its practically bottomless.
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Augustin56
Well-Known Member
Well, my experience with you is that you are so indoctrinated to your personal interpretation of Sola Scriptura, that you can't see the forest for the trees. Many, far more educated than you or I, have come into the Catholic Church from outside the Church (Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.). But they did so by being intelletually honest and viewing the Bible through the correct historical context vs. historical revisionism created by anti-Catholics. Most were surprised and upset that they had been taught so many untruths about the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, historically, was first by far, the first Church. The father's of the Protestant Reformation were ALL Catholic. They all had a strong devotion to Mary, the mother of Jesus. Much of the revisionist theology you hold in your disagreemens with the Catholic Church came much later in history because as time went by, men believed that they could reinvent the theological wheel apart from what was always taught, and come up with something better. And they started straying from what other new man-made doctrines their Protestant brethren had come up with, getting further and further from the original Truths given mankind by Christ. However, Divine Revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle (John). Unless you are claiming that Jesus came back to you, personally, or someone you know, and said, "Hey, wait! That's a mistake! What has been taught for the the millenia+ until the Protestant Reformation was wrong, and I've finally decided to come down and make some corrections." Is this what you're claiming? (I think the Mormons kind of approach it along these lines. Are you Mormon?)
You can believe all that and still answer this simple question: Do you believe that God is capable or incapable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting original sin, thus remaining an immaculate soul? Either you believe God is capable of that or you don't. Easy. Which is it?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
You failed to address a thing I said as usual.....You avoid question that you yourself cannot answer and deflect with these pathetic attempts to excuse your church for its unbiblical doctrines. I quoted the Catholic Bible....so is it distorted too?
You think God doesn’t care that the RCC has led millions of gullible people away from God, just as the Pharisees did with Judaism....history retreats because of the abuse of trust and the corruption that power gives to wicked men.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Nice try......this is not a courtroom and the lawyer tactics don’t work in a Bible discussion. Scripture is the only admissible evidence...blind faith based on the teachings of men does not count here.
There is not a single scripture that talks about Mary being sinless.....nor does it mention her mother. She is a descendant of Adam like everyone on this planet and subject to sin like any other.....but she was God choice of the ‘vehicle’ by which his son would come into the world as Adam’s equivalent. 100% human, but sinless.....otherwise he could not pay the redemption price, which was set by God perfect standard of justice.....”a life for a life”.
As I said.....if you do not understand the mechanics of redemption, you will fall for this baloney.
It’s not about Mary....it never was......it’s about Jesus who runs a weak second place to the “Queen” who is the main object of your church’s devotion.
After Jesus’ birth Mary presented a “sin offering” along with her husband at the Temple. A sinless woman would not need to do so. The embryo in Mary’s womb was sinless...she did not need to be to give birth to him. Look what satan has you doing!....whilst convincing you that you aren’t.
Wake up.
Nice try......this is not a courtroom and the lawyer tactics don’t work in a Bible discussion. Scripture is the only admissible evidence...blind faith based on the teachings of men does not count here.
There is not a single scripture that talks about Mary being sinless.....nor does it mention her mother. She is a descendant of Adam like everyone on this planet and subject to sin like any other.....but she was God choice of the ‘vehicle’ by which his son would come into the world as Adam’s equivalent. 100% human, but sinless.....otherwise he could not pay the redemption price, which was set by God perfect standard of justice.....”a life for a life”.
As I said.....if you do not understand the mechanics of redemption, you will fall for this baloney.
It’s not about Mary....it never was......it’s about Jesus who runs a weak second place to the “Queen” who is the main object of your church’s devotion.
After Jesus’ birth Mary presented a “sin offering” along with her husband at the Temple. A sinless woman would not need to do so. The embryo in Mary’s womb was sinless...she did not need to be to give birth to him. Look what satan has you doing!....whilst convincing you that you aren’t.
Wake up.
I asked a simple question: Do you believe God is capable or incapable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting original sin, thus remaining an immaculate soul? I don't know why you repeatedly refuse to answer it. It's not like it's hard, so do you not know if God is capable of that or not?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
It’s probably because you think that by answering it the way you want me to, will reinforce your belief.....no way. Your motives are very transparent. It never was a case of God’s capability or lack of it.....we already know what God is capable of because the Bible is filled with his accomplishments......it’s about whether the Bible ever mentioned anything about Mary, apart from the fact that she was chosen to bear the human son of God. And that she was married to Joseph and had lots more children. Childbirth would have dealt with Mary’s virginity. You do understand what a virgin is I hope. And you understand how virginity was proven in Bible times? She was in her “impure” state following Jesus’ birth...just like every other woman who gives birth. It’s why she had to present a “sin offering” at the Temple after the required 40 days. She was a sinful human like everyone else descended from Adam. Nothing in the Bible says otherwise.....
You guys fill in the blanks with your own invented nonsense.
Do you not know if God is capable or not of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting original sin?
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
The Question about David’s Son
Matthew 22:41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit,[a] calls him Lord, saying,
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
till I put thy enemies under thy feet’?45 If David thus calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did any one dare to ask him any more questions.
Read full chapter
Sit at my right hand,
till I put thy enemies under thy feet’?
New World Translation
Matthew 22:41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them:+ 42 “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s.”
+ 43 He asked them: “How is it, then, that David under inspiration+ calls him Lord, saying,
44 ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’?
+ 45 If, then, David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”+ 46 And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, and from that day on, no one dared to question him any further.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Now I know why you are Catholic......if you were in a court of law, the opposing lawyer would wipe the floor with you.....because your “circumstantial evidence” is not even based on any circumstance that the Bible mentions....why is no Catholic aware of this? Indoctrination by any chance?
Your beliefs cannot be substantiated by any Biblical statements. Why do you keep asking the same question when it has been answered....? Just not the answer you want.
I’m not feeding the trolls any more.
Be careful how loud you laugh.....1 Cor 10:12.
I’m pretty sure that was nothing like the scene of Mary’s encounter with Gabriel.....the Catholic rendition is hilarious.....look at all those cute little cherubs....and why does Gabriel look like a girl?
It was a literal visitation, not a vision. Gabriel also appeared to Daniel as a man.....not a transsexual.
Who the heck is this....?
You keep talking about unrelated stuff. I asked a simple question: Do you believe God is capable or incapable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting original sin? It seems you don't know if God's capable or not of that.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Why are you lashing out at me? I have nothing to do with you seemingly not knowing whether or not God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from inheriting original sin.
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