Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)

[Brakelite]

I agree with what you wrote except for your definition of orthodox.

Since Jesus "condemned the rulers of His day with wrong teaching" he was NOT orthodox by their standard. That's the point of this topic.

Re-read the OP (post #1, if need be)

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Just thinking about this a little further. When related to sport for example, I remember one Olympic competition a number of decades ago. A high jumper entered with a very " unorthodox" style. Yet highly effective, in fact so effective, nearly every high jumper today has adopted it, or variations thereof. It was called the Fosbury flop. What began as unorthodox 40 or so years ago, became orthodox in today's world. I think that's a good definition and use. I can think of other applications in sport, such as skiing, surfing, whereby "unorthodox" personal styles or manner can be just as effective, and sometimes more so, then what was traditionally considered orthodox. Can the same be applied to faith? Can doctrine be really termed either orthodox or unorthodox: doctrine is either true or false right? Is unorthodox false? Not necessarily.

 

[St. SteVen]

It was called the Fosbury flop.

That's a good example of how unorthodox thinking can lead to new heights. (no pun intended)

Can the same be applied to faith? Can doctrine be really termed either orthodox or unorthodox: doctrine is either true or false right? Is unorthodox false? Not necessarily.

Agree. Unorthodox in that sense just means different than the norm.

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[Wick Stick]

Why not?

Brakelite did a good job explaining.

It feels like this should be obvious to anyone who lives in a large country with a federalized government that is so far detached from the people's interests. But perhaps that isn't the case where you live. :)

 

[Wick Stick]

Just thinking about this a little further. When related to sport for example, I remember one Olympic competition a number of decades ago. A high jumper entered with a very " unorthodox" style. Yet highly effective, in fact so effective, nearly every high jumper today has adopted it, or variations thereof. It was called the Fosbury flop. What began as unorthodox 40 or so years ago, became orthodox in today's world. I think that's a good definition and use. I can think of other applications in sport, such as skiing, surfing, whereby "unorthodox" personal styles or manner can be just as effective, and sometimes more so, then what was traditionally considered orthodox. Can the same be applied to faith? Can doctrine be really termed either orthodox or unorthodox: doctrine is either true or false right? Is unorthodox false? Not necessarily.

To my thinking, innovation isn't something you want in theology.

Doctrines should be demonstrably true from the beginning of history to the present, even if they weren't articulated explicitly from the start.

 

[St. SteVen]

Doctrines should be demonstrably true from the beginning of history to the present, even if they weren't articulated explicitly from the start.

From my perspective all doctrines are man-made. Theology is basically a science. Not unlike geology and meteorology. (a bit unpredictable)

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[Wick Stick]

From my perspective all doctrines are man-made. Theology is basically a science. Not unlike geology and meteorology. (a bit unpredictable)

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"Theology is the queen of sciences." -Thomas Aquinas

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Just thinking about this a little further. When related to sport for example, I remember one Olympic competition a number of decades ago. A high jumper entered with a very " unorthodox" style. Yet highly effective, in fact so effective, nearly every high jumper today has adopted it, or variations thereof. It was called the Fosbury flop. What began as unorthodox 40 or so years ago, became orthodox in today's world. I think that's a good definition and use. I can think of other applications in sport, such as skiing, surfing, whereby "unorthodox" personal styles or manner can be just as effective, and sometimes more so, then what was traditionally considered orthodox. Can the same be applied to faith? Can doctrine be really termed either orthodox or unorthodox: doctrine is either true or false right? Is unorthodox false? Not necessarily.

Try doing the fosbury flop back in the days when we only had a great lump of sawdust to brake your fall.
Then came the days of big soft matt to fall onto. it was that that made all the difference, for the change.
It's became the norm now only because of the matt, go back to the sawdust days and see the fosbury flop disapear, unless you want to brake your neck.

 

[St. SteVen]

Try doing the fosbury flop back in the days when we only had a great lump of sawdust to brake your fall.
Then came the days of big soft matt to fall onto. it was that that made all the difference, for the change.
It's became the norm now only because of the matt, go back to the sawdust days and see the fosbury flop disapear, unless you want to brake your neck.

I wonder if there is a spiritual application there?
The old ways continue to be repeated even though the environment has changed, opening up new ways.

Sometimes I wonder if the church needs a drive-up window. - LOL

Imagine going past a church in your car and noticing a DRIVE-UP OPEN sign.

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[Stumpmaster]

Brakelite did a good job explaining.

It feels like this should be obvious to anyone who lives in a large country with a federalized government that is so far detached from the people's interests. But perhaps that isn't the case where you live. :)

Next minute there's a creed that outlaws creeds.

 

[Brakelite]

To my thinking, innovation isn't something you want in theology.

Doctrines should be demonstrably true from the beginning of history to the present, even if they weren't articulated explicitly from the start.

Could I be so bold as to suggest that modern Pentecostalism could be the epitome of innovation?

 

[Jay Ross]

From my perspective, the hallmark of a Baptist church is the control that is exercised by the head honcho.

I thought that to be a leader of a church that a person had to be a humble servant. I am not so sure that that is what is happening in many churches at all and that the word of the head honcho goes as if he has ???????.

A swollen head, already turned away from God, to protect his theology which is the right theology in his understanding, etc. , etc,

My pastor told me the other night that he had not read in the scriptures that only those who inhabit His fertile fields/soil will be bless.

Perhaps we need Jesus operational in our church and we are not even Baptist.

 

[Brakelite]

Next minute there's a creed that outlaws creeds.

The truth is that there is salvation outside of the church. Adherence to creeds is not essential to salvation. A relationship with Jesus is.

 

[Brakelite]

One man said this a while back ...
"Organization was designed to secure unity of action, and as a protection from imposture. It was never intended as a scourge to compel obedience, but rather for the protection of the people of God. Christ does not drive his people; he calls them. ‘My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me.’ Our Living Head leads the way, and calls his people to follow. “Human creeds cannot produce unity. Church force cannot press the church into one body. Christ never designed that human minds should
be moulded for heaven by the influence of other human minds. ‘The head of every man is Christ.’ His part is to lead, and to mould, and to stamp his own image upon the heirs of eternal glory. However important organization may be for the protection of the church, and to secure harmony of action, it must not come in to take the discipline from the hands of the Master."

 

[Brakelite]

How closely to Catholic history does one come to when he places others under trial according to a creed, and rejects the others' defense though it come from scripture.
Does not a Christian forum do this when using a statement of beliefs to guide discussion and formally rejecting contributors if they dare to step outside those guidelines? Probably not, because a privately owned forum are fully entitled to establish their own rules, however, how easy would it be for members of said forums to carry that principle into the public square or even the church?

 

[Stumpmaster]

The truth is that there is salvation outside of the church. Adherence to creeds is not essential to salvation. A relationship with Jesus is.

All sorts of things are the fruit of a relationship with Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

Could I be so bold as to suggest that modern Pentecostalism could be the epitome of innovation?

It's a pioneering work because so much was lost to Cessationist theology. Unbelief is the worst enemy of manifestations of the Spirit. Even Jesus was thwarted by the unbelief in his hometown. Strange and powerful.

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[St. SteVen]

It's a pioneering work because so much was lost to Cessationist theology. Unbelief is the worst enemy of manifestations of the Spirit. Even Jesus was thwarted by the unbelief in his hometown. Strange and powerful.

]

Mark 6:4-6 NIV
Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town,
among his relatives and in his own home.”
5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.
6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. ...

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[St. SteVen]

What is this thing with accusations of unorthodox, heretic, heterodox, pagan, etc.
Seems like blatant tribalism to me. Us versus them. When will we ever learn?

So, was Jesus orthodox?
Or did he operate outside the realm of the orthodoxy of his day?
Was he a heretic by their standards?

Perhaps being heterodox is WAY underrated. Do we worship the status quo?

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[Wick Stick]

Was he a heretic by their standards?

This question is confusing, because the meaning of heretic has changed.

In antiquity, a heretic was someone who followed a different path of your own religion. They were generally welcomed and on friendly terms. I suppose when you have actual enemy religions to fight against, the differences within your own religion are not as important.

 

[Keiw]

Follow-up to the "Is Universalism Orthodox."[?] topic.

What is this thing with accusations of unorthodox, heretic, heterodox, pagan, etc.
Seems like blatant tribalism to me. Us versus them. When will we ever learn?

So, was Jesus orthodox?
Or did he operate outside the realm of the orthodoxy of his day?
Was he a heretic by their standards?

Perhaps being heterodox is WAY underrated. Do we worship the status quo?

Jesus was a witness of ( YHVH)Jehovah