Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Was he a heretic by their standards?

This question is confusing, because the meaning of heretic has changed.

In antiquity, a heretic was someone who followed a different path of your own religion. They were generally welcomed and on friendly terms. I suppose when you have actual enemy religions to fight against, the differences within your own religion are not as important.

My question was spurred by those who took issue with my stance calling me a heretic.
Seems those in His day did the same thing to Jesus.

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[Wick Stick]

St. SteVen said:
Was he a heretic by their standards?

Yes, at first.

At some point, they changed their thinking to consider Him as promoting another religion altogether, rather than just a different interpretation of Judaism.

It was probably around the time that he called them vipers and insinuated that they were all bastards.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

When will we ever learn?

Those following false doctrine won't... God's Word warns that there will be massive deception in the end times... which is what we are seeing now if false doctrine being taught by the majority of churches / preachers

Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)

We know He wasn't Baptist.... Jesus was not involved in false doctrines and the Baptists are.

did he operate outside the realm of the orthodoxy of his day?

Pretty goofy question and one that would not be asked by anybody that has read the gospels noticing the pharisees and sadducees rules the religious narrative in Israel at the time and accused Jesus of heresy since He could not be controlled by them

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Was he a heretic by their standards?

Yes, the pharisees and sadducees considered Jesus to be a heretic

Rad the gospels and pay attention!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It was probably around the time that he called them vipers and insinuated that they were all bastards.

He didn't just consider them to be bastards.... He actually told them they were of their father the devil.

 

[Soyeong]

There is strong agreement between Jesus and the house of Hillel, so he was Orthodox and the Talmud derives from the OT many of the same things that are taught in the NT, so he was strongly Orthodox.

 

[Wick Stick]

There is strong agreement between Jesus and the house of Hillel, so he was Orthodox and the Talmud derives from the OT many of the same things that are taught in the NT, so he was strongly Orthodox.

His teaching don't totally match any group, but he agrees better with some of the Essene groups than either Hillel or Shammai

 

[Wick Stick]

We know He wasn't Baptist.... Jesus was not involved in false doctrines and the Baptists are.

I don't think he means the modern Baptist denomination. He's talking about the group in the 1st century founded by John the Baptist

 

[Keiw]

There is strong agreement between Jesus and the house of Hillel, so he was Orthodox and the Talmud derives from the OT many of the same things that are taught in the NT, so he was strongly Orthodox.

Jesus served the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah. Thus never would be orthodox.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus served the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah. Thus never would be orthodox.

That doesn’t follow.

 

[Wick Stick]

That doesn’t follow.

Agreed. Monotheism is orthodox for Judaism

 

[Keiw]

That doesn’t follow.

God was never a trinity.

 

[Soyeong]

God was never a trinity.

Agreed. Monotheism is orthodox for Judaism

The way to believe in and worship the God of Abraham is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness by being a doer of justice in obedience to His instructions, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy and so forth. This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Spirit because the fruits of the Spirit are the character traits of God and this is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son because the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3). If Jesus had been anything less than that, then worshiping him would have been idolatry, but because he is that, then our good works worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it makes no difference to specify which one that we are worshiping by our good works. Christianity is about being in God's likeness, which is also what Judaism is about.

 

[Keiw]

The way to believe in and worship the God of Abraham is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness by being a doer of justice in obedience to His instructions, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy and so forth. This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Spirit because the fruits of the Spirit are the character traits of God and this is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son because the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3). If Jesus had been anything less than that, then worshiping him would have been idolatry, but because he is that, then our good works worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it makes no difference to specify which one that we are worshiping by our good works. Christianity is about being in God's likeness, which is also what Judaism is about.

Catholicism mistranslated the Greek word proskeneu for one who has a God( John 20:17, Rev 3:12, Psalm 45:7) that word has 5 different meanings from Greek to English-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others,,, obeisance is correct for Gods appointed king, not worship. This is fact. It was Catholicism who screwed up translating to fit false council teachings. It has mislead billions since the 4th century.

 

[Wick Stick]

The way to believe in and worship the God of Abraham is by directing our lives towards being in His likeness
through being a doer of His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to
God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16)
and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words,
we are believing in Him.

Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by directing our lives towards being in His
likeness by being a doer of justice in obedience to His instructions, the way to believe that God is holy
is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy and so forth.

This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Spirit because the fruits of the Spirit are the
character traits of God and this is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son because the Son
is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3).

If Jesus had been anything less than that, then worshiping him would have been idolatry, but because he is
that, then our good works worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it makes no difference to specify
which one that we are worshiping by our good works.

Christianity is about being in God's likeness, which is also what Judaism is about.

Holy run-on sentences, Batman. Added breaks so I could read it (above)

 

[Soyeong]

Catholicism mistranslated the Greek word proskeneu for one who has a God( John 20:17, Rev 3:12, Psalm 45:7) that word has 5 different meanings from Greek to English-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others,,, obeisance is correct for Gods appointed king, not worship. This is fact. It was Catholicism who screwed up translating to fit false council teachings. It has mislead billions since the 4th century.

The way to obey God is by being a doer of His character traits, which is also the way to worship Him.

 

[St. SteVen]

The way to obey God is by being a doer of His character traits, which is also the way to worship Him.

I hope that means that you don't believe that wrath and revenge are God's character traits.

Is Revenge a Sin?

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God. For us, but not for God? Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to? Many would bristle at that question. Why? We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Soyeong]

I hope that means that you don't believe that wrath and revenge are God's character traits.

Is Revenge a Sin?

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God. For us, but not for God? Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to? Many would bristle at that question. Why? We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly...

www.christianityboard.com

[

Those are indeed God's character traits. The way that we should behave on a personal level is not the same as the way that we should behave on a judicial level. Someone should try to seek to repay what others have done to them in accordance with what they see as getting even, but that is different from a judge acting as an agent of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Those are indeed God's character traits. The way that we should behave on a personal level is not the same as the way that we should behave on a judicial level. Someone should try to seek to repay what others have done to them in accordance with what they see as getting even, but that is different from a judge acting as an agent of God.

Perhaps obedience to God has nothing to do with modeling his character traits?

The way to obey God is by being a doer of His character traits, which is also the way to worship Him.

If this is true, wouldn't disobedience be the opposite?

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[Reggie Belafonte]

Exactly.
This topic is to expose that very understanding. Thank you.
Orthodoxy is a moving target. It's not absolute.

Agree.
Terms like orthodoxy and heretic are used to divide and criticize. (or worse)

Right. Orthodoxy is a man-made standard.
A necessary evil, I suppose. When the alternative is either chaos or 20,000 denominations.
But socially, is used to label others with differing beliefs.
These two related forum topics spun off of a comment that "Universalism is not orthodox".
With obvious divisive intent.

Orthodox is a set standed ! Period. outside of that are just fools ! jibberish !
Now when Jesus came he was Orthodox in regards his Father in fact ! for he only did, as was the will of his Father !
So Jesus is the Orthodox of Orthodox in fact !
But in regard the Jews, they only knew of God ? but did not know God in fact ! so they were Orthodox in regards of this world !

Is the Father Orthodox ? sure has to be so, for if not such would not be the Father in fact.

If one is not Orthodox one is a clown !

But then again if one looks into what the Jews claim to be Orthodox ? like an Orthodox Jew, that does not mean what we would think that it means.