I'd like to think I can manage to get up to 14, thanks to my 20 fingers and toes!
Was Jesus a Literal Son of David?
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Mary's lineage/genealogy
The Line of David can trace its roots back to BOTH Judah-Pharez AND Levi (Exod. 6:23; Num. 1:7; 1 Chron. 2:4-15; Matt. 1:1-17; Luke 1:5, 1:36, 1:67-71).
Aaron, son of Amram, who was the first high-priest from the tribe of Levi, took a wife from the tribe of Judah-Pharez
Exodus 6:23 And Aaron took him Elisheba, daughter of Amminadab, sister of Naashon, to wife; and she bare him Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
Numbers 1:7 Of Judah; Nahshon the son of Amminadab.
1 Chronicles 2:4-15
2:4 And Tamar his daughter in law bare him Pharez and Zarah.
2:5 The sons of Pharez; Hezron, and Hamul.
2:9 The sons also of Hezron, that were born unto him; Jerahmeel, and Ram, and Chelubai.
2:10 And Ram begat Amminadab; and Amminadab begat Nahshon, PRINCE OF THE CHILDREN OF JUDAH;
2:11 And Nahshon begat Salma, and Salma begat Boaz,
2:12 And Boaz begat Obed, and Obed begat Jesse,
2:13 And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third,
2:14 Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth,
2:15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh:
Further confirmation of Mary's lineage may be found in Matthew 1, and in Luke 1.
Elisabeth, Mary's cousin Elisabeth (Luke 1:36), who gave birth to John the Baptist, was “a daughter of Aaron” (Luke 1:5) AND a descendant of David (Luke 1:67-71).
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain (Levitical) priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.
Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
Luke 1:67-71
1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying,
1:68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for He hath visited and redeemed His people,
1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the House of His servant David;
1:70 As He spoke by the mouth of His Holy Prophets, which have been since the world began:
So both Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth were both descended from Aaron, and Mary was Elisabeth's cousin.
Confirmation of Mary's lineage is likewise in the Koran/Quran (Sura 3:35-37, Sura 19:27-34, Sura 66:12)
Sura 3:35-37
3:35. Behold! A woman (Hannah - Anne who was a member of the British Royal Family) of Amram (who was a Levite) said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: so accept this of me: for Thou hearest and knowest all things."
3:36. When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And in no way is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."
3:37. Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: to the care of Zacharias was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From God: for God provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."
Sura 19:27-34
19:27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
19:28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
19:29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the crib?"
19:30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of "I AM": He hath given me revelation and made me a Prophet;
19:31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Compassion as long as I live;
19:32. "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
19:33. "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
19:34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
Sura 66:12. And Mary the daughter of Amram, who guarded her chastity and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
Elisabeth, Mary's cousin, was not only of the daughters (female descendant) of Amram, but specifically one of the daughters of Aaron, from whom the priestly line originated. Her genealogy is provided in Matthew, which differs from her husband Joseph's lineage (assumed/considered to be Jesus' dad, and would have been his “legal” dad/guardian, even if not His biological dad), found in Luke 3.
The Line of David can trace its roots back to BOTH Judah-Pharez AND Levi (Exod. 6:23; Num. 1:7; 1 Chron. 2:4-15; Matt. 1:1-17; Luke 1:5, 1:36, 1:67-71).
Aaron, son of Amram, who was the first high-priest from the tribe of Levi, took a wife from the tribe of Judah-Pharez
Exodus 6:23 And Aaron took him Elisheba, daughter of Amminadab, sister of Naashon, to wife; and she bare him Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
Numbers 1:7 Of Judah; Nahshon the son of Amminadab.
1 Chronicles 2:4-15
2:4 And Tamar his daughter in law bare him Pharez and Zarah.
2:5 The sons of Pharez; Hezron, and Hamul.
2:9 The sons also of Hezron, that were born unto him; Jerahmeel, and Ram, and Chelubai.
2:10 And Ram begat Amminadab; and Amminadab begat Nahshon, PRINCE OF THE CHILDREN OF JUDAH;
2:11 And Nahshon begat Salma, and Salma begat Boaz,
2:12 And Boaz begat Obed, and Obed begat Jesse,
2:13 And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third,
2:14 Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth,
2:15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh:
Further confirmation of Mary's lineage may be found in Matthew 1, and in Luke 1.
Elisabeth, Mary's cousin Elisabeth (Luke 1:36), who gave birth to John the Baptist, was “a daughter of Aaron” (Luke 1:5) AND a descendant of David (Luke 1:67-71).
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain (Levitical) priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.
Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
Luke 1:67-71
1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying,
1:68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for He hath visited and redeemed His people,
1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the House of His servant David;
1:70 As He spoke by the mouth of His Holy Prophets, which have been since the world began:
So both Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth were both descended from Aaron, and Mary was Elisabeth's cousin.
Confirmation of Mary's lineage is likewise in the Koran/Quran (Sura 3:35-37, Sura 19:27-34, Sura 66:12)
Sura 3:35-37
3:35. Behold! A woman (Hannah - Anne who was a member of the British Royal Family) of Amram (who was a Levite) said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: so accept this of me: for Thou hearest and knowest all things."
3:36. When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And in no way is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."
3:37. Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: to the care of Zacharias was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From God: for God provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."
Sura 19:27-34
19:27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
19:28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
19:29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the crib?"
19:30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of "I AM": He hath given me revelation and made me a Prophet;
19:31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Compassion as long as I live;
19:32. "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
19:33. "So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
19:34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
Sura 66:12. And Mary the daughter of Amram, who guarded her chastity and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
Elisabeth, Mary's cousin, was not only of the daughters (female descendant) of Amram, but specifically one of the daughters of Aaron, from whom the priestly line originated. Her genealogy is provided in Matthew, which differs from her husband Joseph's lineage (assumed/considered to be Jesus' dad, and would have been his “legal” dad/guardian, even if not His biological dad), found in Luke 3.
What was Mary’s lineage? | GotQuestions.org
What was Mary’s lineage? Does Luke chapter 3 record the genealogy of Mary? Why is Mary’s lineage important?www.gotquestions.org
It is common knowledge that the genealogies contained in Matthew and Luke differ. Most conservative Bible commentators explain the difference by holding that Jesus’ genealogy in Matthew 1:1–16 is traced through Joseph’s line to show Jesus’ royal right to the Davidic throne; correspondingly, the genealogy in Luke 3:23–38 traces Jesus’ ancestry through Mary’s line. This means that Mary’s lineage is recorded in the Gospel of Luke.
Mary’s lineage, as recorded by Luke, does not mention Mary, but that’s to be expected—including women’s names in genealogies was not standard practice. It begins this way: “[Jesus] was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli” (Luke 3:23). This comment affirms the truth of Jesus’ virgin birth (see Luke 1:29–38). Joseph was a “son” of Heli by virtue of his marriage to Mary, who would have been the daughter of Heli (Matthew 1:16 lists Joseph’s biological father as Jacob).
Some notable points in Mary’s lineage are that she was a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Luke 3:34); she was specifically of the tribe of Judah (verse 33). She was also a descendant of Boaz (verse 32) and David (verse 31). Significantly, Luke traces Mary’s lineage all the way back to Adam (verse 38). This fits with Luke’s purpose as he wrote to Gentiles and emphasized that Jesus is the Son of God who came to save all people (cf. Luke 2:10–11).
And
But you know that Joseph was not directly in the genealogy, in the sense that it was a virgin birth, none of Joseph's seed went into the creation of Jesus as Mary was found pregnant before they came together, Christ was born of Mary only, not Joseph.
Matthew 1:18
Christ Born of Mary
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.Luke 1, through Mary, not Joseph. Mary was of the tribe of Judah. Virgin birth excludes Joseph.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
If you believe the virgin shall conceive as foretold in the prophecy, then you must agree this as true
Matthew 1
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and [i]did not know her till she had brought forth her[j] firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
If you believe the virgin shall conceive as foretold in the prophecy, then you must agree this as true
Matthew 1
Christ Born of Mary
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being [f]a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is [g]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name [h]Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and [i]did not know her till she had brought forth her[j] firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.
I always like the way this guy shows a thing but to be honest, I cannot follow genealogies I get brain freeze
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I just noticed that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the city of David. Not sure what that means.
Luke 2:4-7 NIV
So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea,
to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.
5 He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child.
6 While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born,
7 and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger,
because there was no guest room available for them.
[
Luke 2:4-7 NIV
So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea,
to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.
5 He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child.
6 While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born,
7 and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger,
because there was no guest room available for them.
[
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Yes. It seems that the title "Son of David" was synonymous with Messiah.
Matthew 12:22-24 NIV
Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute,
and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said,
“It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
[
Hebrews 7
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For [d]He testifies:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing [e]perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Our Lord arose from Judah
Judah is an ancestor of David
David is an ancestor of Mary
Judah-> David-> Mary-> Jesus
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For [d]He testifies:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing [e]perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Our Lord arose from Judah
Judah is an ancestor of David
David is an ancestor of Mary
Judah-> David-> Mary-> Jesus
Romans 1
Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who [a]was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who [a]was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
It is also what the angel sent from God says to Mary.
Luke 1
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
As Mary birthed Jesus the Christ. Mary is in the line of David, and David is in the line of Judah
Not according to the Spirit as God Himself is the Father of Jesus
According to the flesh, means Mary in the flesh is a descendent of David, she is not God.
God is a Spirit.
David is like the father of Mary many generations apart. And that is according to the fleshly lineage
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
it means HE was long before The Word became flesh .
so according to the flesh , aka lineage of david . THOUGH HE was LONG before David was and all that was created was .
How then IS HE His son . The LORD said unto MY LORD . JESUS was telling them something .
Hebrews 1
Speaks of the Word, and of Jesus the Son
We know Him as Jesus the Christ, Son of God, Son of man, who really is The Word made flesh, the Image of the invisible God.
We know Him as God come in the flesh, God with a face on, someone we can touch and handle, as the disciples did, as had been given a body of flesh
God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
Speaks of the Word, and of Jesus the Son
We know Him as Jesus the Christ, Son of God, Son of man, who really is The Word made flesh, the Image of the invisible God.
We know Him as God come in the flesh, God with a face on, someone we can touch and handle, as the disciples did, as had been given a body of flesh
God, who [a]at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [b]worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had [c]by Himself [d]purged [e]our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
The Son Exalted Above Angels
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Jesus is referred to as "SON of David"....
Which because of the translation is the best we can do.
BUT
You are missing the nuances and context.
It's not said as BenDavid....which is literally "son of David".
Which means it was said in a different fashion.
Look at Galatians 3:16. And clarity might come.
Meaning "Zera" David. Not Zerabim (plural)
Or SEED of David.... as in a reference to SEED of the Woman....the Bride of Christ.
Which is what Blind Bartemus was crying out...."SEED of David, have mercy upon me."
Basically calling Jesus the Messiah....the Savior....and EVERYONE who recognized Jesus as the Messiah was granted a miracle. It could be a healing or even a son, parent, or daughter back to life. Whatever they needed or just wanted.
Which is a foreshadowing of the healing God grants us by recognizing Jesus is the Messiah. Not just a good guy, not just a prophet, but actually God incarnate. The Emmanuel.
Which because of the translation is the best we can do.
BUT
You are missing the nuances and context.
It's not said as BenDavid....which is literally "son of David".
Which means it was said in a different fashion.
Look at Galatians 3:16. And clarity might come.
Meaning "Zera" David. Not Zerabim (plural)
Or SEED of David.... as in a reference to SEED of the Woman....the Bride of Christ.
Which is what Blind Bartemus was crying out...."SEED of David, have mercy upon me."
Basically calling Jesus the Messiah....the Savior....and EVERYONE who recognized Jesus as the Messiah was granted a miracle. It could be a healing or even a son, parent, or daughter back to life. Whatever they needed or just wanted.
Which is a foreshadowing of the healing God grants us by recognizing Jesus is the Messiah. Not just a good guy, not just a prophet, but actually God incarnate. The Emmanuel.
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