Was Jesus a Literal Son of David?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Romans 1:3 Paul declares that Jesus was a descendant of David “according to the flesh.” Is it true? Matthew’s genealogy traces Joseph’s lineage to David, not Mary’s. Ditto for Luke. No gospel passage declares that Mary herself descended from David.

It’s pretty clear that during Jesus’s ministry and for at least a little while afterwards, the common perception was that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph. Luke 3:23. Paul never once mentions a virgin conception, so I suppose he could have shared that perception. By the time Matthew and Luke wrote and their gospels got circulated, folks thought differently. But nobody has bothered to make the case for Jesus being a literal Son of David. A bit surprising, given the prophecy that the Messiah would be of the seed of David (2 Sam. 7:12-16) -- not by adoption (as Joseph adopted Jesus), but by seed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,927
5,682
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Interesting topic.
A quick search appears to assign the Son of David title through Joseph.
But you are correct that Jesus wasn't a physical descendant through Mary.
Jesus questions the title in the gospel of Mark. (and Luke 20:41)

Matthew 1:1 NIV
This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Matthew 1:20 NIV
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said,
“Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife,
because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Mark 12:35-37 NIV
While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked,
“Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David?
36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[a]
37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”
The large crowd listened to him with delight.

[
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RedFan

A Freeman

Member
Dec 18, 2024
145
77
28
62
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Most people wrongly assume that the "Joseph" referenced in the lineage listed in Matthew 1:1-17 is Mary's husband.

If that were true, i.e. if the Joseph in Matthew 1:16 is assumed to be Mary's husband, then the generational count would be in error, as Joseph and Mary are the same generation. If it's correctly understood that the Joseph in Matthew 1:16 is Joseph of Arimathaea (Mary's uncle and guardian), then the generational count is correct.

Matthew 1:1-17
1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
1:2 Abraham (1) begat Isaac (2); and Isaac begat Jacob (3); and Jacob begat Judah (4) and his brethren;
1:3 And Judah begat Pharez (5) and Zarah of Thamar; and Pharez begat Esrom (6); and Esrom begat Aram (7);
1:4 And Aram begat Aminadab (8); and Aminadab begat Naasson (9); and Naasson begat Salmon (10);
1:5 And Salmon begat Boaz of Rachab (11); and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth (12); and Obed begat Jesse (13);
1:6 And Jesse begat David the king (14); and David the king begat Solomon (1) of her [that had been the wife] of Urias;
1:7 And Solomon begat Rehoboam (2); and Rehoboam begat Abia (3); and Abia begat Asa (4);
1:8 And Asa begat Josaphat (5); and Josaphat begat Joram (6); and Joram begat Ozias (7);
1:9 And Ozias begat Joatham (8); and Joatham begat Achaz (9); and Achaz begat Ezekias (10);
1:10 And Ezekias begat Manasses (11); and Manasses begat Amon (12); and Amon begat Josias (13);
1:11 And Josias begat Jechonias (14) and his brethren (including Zedekiah), about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel (1); and Salathiel begat Zorobabel (2);
1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud (3); and Abiud begat Eliakim (4); and Eliakim begat Azor (5);
1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc (6); and Sadoc begat Achim (7); and Achim begat Eliud (8);
1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar (9); and Eleazar begat Matthan (10); and Matthan begat Jacob (11);
1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph (12 – of Arimathaea) the uncle and guardian of Mary (13* – who was from the British Royal family, which is the Royal line of David and she was also from the Levitical line of Amram, who was the father of Moses and Aaron), of whom was born Jesus (14), who is called Christ (who was therefore eligible to be both King and High-Priest).

1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.

*Matthew 1:16 cannot be referring to Joseph, the husband of Mary, because that would leave only 13 generations from the carrying away into Babylon unto Jesus. The Joseph referenced is therefore the uncle and guardian of Mary, which should explain why Joseph of Arimathaea was able to claim the body of Jesus after the crucifixion, as only a family member could do according to Roman law.

In the English translation of the Peshitta, which is the Aramaic version of the Bible, Matthew 1:16 states that Joseph was the guardian of Mary, NOT her husband.

Matthew 1 Peshitta Holy Bible Translated

Logically, Jacob, son of Matthan (in verse 1:15) probably didn't have two sons that were both named Joseph***. If Mary's dad passed away in Mary's youth, then it makes perfect sense that her dad's younger brother – Joseph of Arimathaea – would have stepped in to be her guardian, i.e. her uncle taking on the roll of her adoptive dad.

***Mary's dad was reportedly Joachim:

JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA – WHO WAS HE? | The Ensign Message

The lineage of Joseph, Mary's husband, is provided in Luke 3:23-31, to let people know that even though Joseph was NOT Jesus' biological dad, Joseph was likewise descended from the royal, kingly line of David.

So, in answer to the question in the OP, Jesus was a literal son (descendant) of king David, making Jesus uniquely eligible to be both High-Priest and King (more on that can be provided, if anyone is interested).
 
  • Love
Reactions: JohnDB

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Most people wrongly assume that the "Joseph" referenced in the lineage listed in Matthew 1:1-17 is Mary's husband.

If that were true, i.e. if the Joseph in Matthew 1:16 is assumed to be Mary's husband, then the generational count would be in error, as Joseph and Mary are the same generation.
I'm not seeing what you are seeing. The generational count seems right to me, despite Joseph and Mary being the same generation (an irrelevant fact, by the way).
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,279
8,112
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Matthew’s genealogy traces Joseph’s lineage to David, not Mary’s

Consider this teaching.

""Luke is a genealogy done in the manner of a family keeping records, through Mary , because Joseph did not genetically contribute, so, it is a true genetic genealogy of Jesus..
It is traced backwards from Jesus through Heli the father of Mary, back to David through his son Nathan, because it is a simple and natural blood line""
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: JohnDB

A Freeman

Member
Dec 18, 2024
145
77
28
62
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm not seeing what you are seeing. The generational count seems right to me, despite Joseph and Mary being the same generation (an irrelevant fact, by the way).
Are you perhaps assuming that Mary's husband Joseph is a different generation than Mary? Not sure how the count could be made any clearer. And yes, it's absolutely relevant, because it determines who is being talked about.
 

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Consider this teaching.

""Luke is a genealogy done in the manner of a family keping records, through Mary , because Joseph did not genetically contribute, so, it is a true genetic genealogy of Jesus..
It is traced backwards from Jesus through Heli the father of Mary, back to David through his son Nathan, because it is a simple and natural blood line""
But Heli is not the father of Mary. Heli is the father of Joseph, according to Luke 3:23.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A Freeman

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,572
1,887
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Romans 1:3 Paul declares that Jesus was a descendant of David “according to the flesh.” Is it true? Matthew’s genealogy traces Joseph’s lineage to David, not Mary’s. Ditto for Luke. No gospel passage declares that Mary herself descended from David.

It’s pretty clear that during Jesus’s ministry and for at least a little while afterwards, the common perception was that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph. Luke 3:23. Paul never once mentions a virgin conception, so I suppose he could have shared that perception. By the time Matthew and Luke wrote and their gospels got circulated, folks thought differently. But nobody has bothered to make the case for Jesus being a literal Son of David. A bit surprising, given the prophecy that the Messiah would be of the seed of David (2 Sam. 7:12-16) -- not by adoption (as Joseph adopted Jesus), but by seed.
Panting seeds of doubt is satan's work!! count the cost
 

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you perhaps assuming that Mary's husband Joseph is a different generation than Mary? Not sure how the count could be made any clearer. And yes, it's absolutely relevant, because it determines who is being talked about.
Happy to assume that Mary is the same generation as Joseph, because it doesn't matter to the count. Going from newest to oldest, I am counting Jesus as 1, Joseph as 2, etc.
 

MA2444

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
3,840
1,985
113
62
Columbus Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Luke 18 a blind man was shouting to Jesus trying to get Him to come heal him.

Luke 18:37-43
37 And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.

38 And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me.

39 And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou son of David, have mercy on me.

40 And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,

41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.

42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God..../KJV

It's been tossed around that Jesus stopped the procession for this man for calling Him, thou Son of David, which was a remark indicating that He recognized Jesus as the Messiah and deliverer...and that's why Jesus healed him. Because he acknowledged Him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

MA2444

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
3,840
1,985
113
62
Columbus Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Step-Father.

This is complex, and is related to how family lines are understood by Hebrews.

Why Step Father? I know that man can read a lot of stuff with DNA but remember the scripture. God told Abraham that his descendants would be more numerous than the sands of the sea. He said that at a time that Abraham didn't have any kids!

Now God didn't lie. So doesn't it stand to reason that Abrahams line has people even today? Doesn't everyone's lineage have to go back even to Adam? Noah came out of Adam's line. So God did some rearranging of things at the tower of Babel and maybe that's where lineages came from also? Or man can't read a lot of what DNA really tells us? They can see some stuff, but not all of it.
 

MA2444

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
3,840
1,985
113
62
Columbus Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hey, maybe we are all Abrahams grandchildren? Wasn't part of the promise a multitude of nations or something like that? So, people of all races have descended from Abraham.

We just can't read the DNA that good yet.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello @RedFan

I believe Joseph and Mary, were both related to David's lineage. That is just my two cents. Yeshua having come from their family, would make Jesus a root of Jesse - Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MA2444

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
15,012
4,467
113
70
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Romans 1:3 Paul declares that Jesus was a descendant of David “according to the flesh.” Is it true? Matthew’s genealogy traces Joseph’s lineage to David, not Mary’s. Ditto for Luke. No gospel passage declares that Mary herself descended from David.

It’s pretty clear that during Jesus’s ministry and for at least a little while afterwards, the common perception was that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph. Luke 3:23. Paul never once mentions a virgin conception, so I suppose he could have shared that perception. By the time Matthew and Luke wrote and their gospels got circulated, folks thought differently. But nobody has bothered to make the case for Jesus being a literal Son of David. A bit surprising, given the prophecy that the Messiah would be of the seed of David (2 Sam. 7:12-16) -- not by adoption (as Joseph adopted Jesus), but by seed.
Jesus is a physical descendant of David through Mary. HIs patristic geneology is divine and Mary is a descendant of David.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MA2444

A Freeman

Member
Dec 18, 2024
145
77
28
62
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Happy to assume that Mary is the same generation as Joseph, because it doesn't matter to the count. Going from newest to oldest, I am counting Jesus as 1, Joseph as 2, etc.
Understood. Perhaps counting to 14 isn't your strong-point?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: MA2444