Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @RLT63 @Rightglory @Bible_Patrol @Jim B @Johann @Gilligan @Behold @Pierac @n2thelight @Eternally Grateful @Titus @marks @Ernest T. Bass

Many people here on ChristianityBoard.com preach that God has a free-will, and many are recorded in the Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation? thread.

The common free-willian refrain is along the lines of "God has freewill. Christ has freewill. Man was made in their image/likeness. Result? = Man has free will." (an actual free-willian quote).

So, the free-willian philosophy holds that God free-will chooses to change between good and evil, and, since God created man in God's image according to God's likeness (Genesis 1:26), then man does precisely the same as God; therefore, man free-will chooses to change between good and evil.

A Will Requires A Host​

First, the definition of free must be considered.

Free denotes:

1. of autonomy:
   1. (noun) no constraint, uncontrolled, liberty, not enslaved, emancipation.
   2. (verb) disentangled, extricate, untangle.
2. of property:
   1. (noun) complimentary, without charge, gratis, no payment required.
   2. (verb) give away, sacrifice.

The subject is not of property regarding free-will, so the focus is set to autonomy regarding free-will.

The word "free" represents a relative concept, as shown in the following paragraph; in other words, a person is "free" from "something".

A person in a constitutional republic, such as the U.S.A., is free to start a business (free from being captives of the tyranny of the King of Great Britain per the U.S. Declaration of Independence), but a person in a communist country, such as North Korea, is NOT free to start a business (communist citizens are captives (owned) by their government).

Second, the definition of free-will must be considered.

Free-will: an autonomous will, an isolated willpower, detached volition, independent moral agency.

Next, considering "will", a will exists not in a vacuum; in other words, a will must be part of a host.

Respecting an unsaved person - the default first condition of every person, since a host (person) is required to host a will, then the person's will is part of the person's self, so the person's will is self-will because the person'a will is attached to the self-same person; on the other hand, the person's will is not free floating detached from the person, so the person's will is not free-will.

The Apostle proclaims a person's will is either one of but not both of:

1. a person's will is controlled by God with "God having purified your souls in the obedience of the Truth through the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22) and "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
2. a person's will is controlled by man with "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

A person's will is dependent upon God (Christimage-will (bond-will), Romans 8:29), or a person's will is dependent upon man (self-will, 2 Peter 2:9-10). No other will exists for a person; moreover, free-will is an illusion as conveyed by the Apostle Paul with "I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).

While the unrighteous unbelievers daringly revel in their own glory founded in their self-willed "I chose Jesus" (2 Peter 2:9-10) thus their hearts steal King Jesus Christ's glory, on the other hand, we righteousness of God in Christ believers worship the Glorious One (2 Corinthians 5:21) who sovereignly chose us (John 15:16, John 15:19 includes salvation).

Thus says Adonai YHWH (Lord GOD) "I am YHWH; that is my name; my glory I give to no other" (Isaiah 42:8), yet the free-willians try to steal God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man.

God's Will is not free will because a free-will does not have a host, yet a host is required for an associated will to exist; therefore, the Will of God is God's Will. See God's Will mentioned in 1 Peter 2:15.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT GOD HAS A FREE-WILL.

God is unchangingly good (Malachi 3:6, Psalm 107:1) for the Word of God says "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so God is exclusively good all the time while at the same time God never changes to being evil.

In effect, free-willian philosophy includes that God imparted God-like free-will into man, and it is established that man free-will chooses between being good and being evil according to man's God-like free-will; therefore, God's free-will results in God fluctuating between good and evil because man's God-like free-will fluctuates between good and evil, so God changes to being evil by free-willian philosophers preaching that God has free-will.

THE RESULT, MAN CANNOT HAVE A GOD-LIKE FREE-WILL BECAUSE GOD CANNOT HAVE A FREE-WILL.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN HAS A FREE-WILL.

Free-will philosophy includes the man generated foundation that, by free-will, man can choose to be evil or good, even the ability for a natural man to free-will choose Jesus Christ unto the good of saving himself from the wrath of God.

The Word of God declares:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Titus]

Free will: an autonomous will, an isolated willpower, detached volition, independent moral agency, Free Moral Agency

It is true no one can do anything if God does not allow it.
I do not define freewill as an ability to act freely above Gods sovereign authority.
Thus freewill is given us by God. He allows through His will to believe or disbelieve Him.

You contempt against the Word of God manifests in your repeating of yourself - your false concept of - "Kermos' false religion has NO assurance of salvation" just like you previously wrote

Correct, your religion is unbiblical and does not allow you to do anything.
You are a robot preprogrammed to think and act as God controls everything.
This is why it is funny that you insist man plays no part in his salvation, then you use YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS AS PROOF YOU ARE ELECT.

Your deception is evident because the following Word of God was proclaimed to you in response to your previous writings.

Great is my God, Jesus Christ NEVER lets go of us, His own, for my Savior says "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10:27-30). PRAISE JESUS! HALLELUJAH! ALL GLORY AND PRAISE AND HONOR TO MY KING! I am nothing without you, Lord Jesus.

My God never lets go of me, through the calm and through the storm, Jesus my Lord never lets go!

Praise Jesus for the assurance of being saved from the wrath of God which He alone delivers the saints!

I claim I am the elect.
I claim I have Faith that Jesus is God, that Jesus was killed, buried and rose from the dead.
I claim only Jesus can wash away my sins, Matthew 26:28.
I claim God never let's go of His chosen elect.

Yet you will deny that my "testimony" proves I am of the elect.
YOU ARE USING THE SAME JUDGMENT TO "PROVE" YOU ARE ELECT.


Sounds like your religion is "man-centered".

Reality:
Kermos never chose God, his god will not allow him the ability.
Kermos is totally inabled to choose God or what he believes to be the gospel.

So, just as Kermos claims I am deceived, it can therefore be likewise true that God is also deceiving Kermos.
Kermos only thinks he is right because God foreordained his entire destiny.

Kermos has no freewill to know if he has chosen the right theology because his god does not allow him to choose what he believes.

The only way Kermos can know if he is elected is when he is dead and stands before God.
That is why there is no assurance of salvation in calvinism.

• • not being in the Lord distinguishes those people as being self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10), not free-will, but Biblically self-willed people.
  • Behold, for the people "to rebel against YHWH this day" is no example of man successfully free-will choosing God.
  • YOU ARE DEAD WRONG ABOUT JOSHUA 22:16.
• Deuteronomy 30:19
  • the passage of Deuteronomy 30:15-20:

This is your religion defining how we must use words.
Self will is freewill.

• does not indicate free-will.
• the word "choose" is in context of life in the promised land, but the word "choose" is not in the context of choosing the Lord.
• in Truth (John 14:6), they could not choose the Lord God Almighty.
• Behold, they failed to even choose life (see the book of Jeremiah, and Isaiah, and Ezekiel, and Hosea), so they are no example of man successfully free-will choosing God.
• YOU ARE DEAD WRONG ABOUT DEUTERONOMY 30:19.

Fine, God then forced these Jews to rebel against Him.
God forced these Jews to worship idols.
They could not choose the Lord Almighty, your words Kermos.

Yet God told them to turn from their sin repent and choose life.
Kermos says his god tells folks to repent and obey him, but at the same time controls their will that they do exactly the opposite of what he tells them to do.
Nonsense.

To believe your doctrine requires one to abandon logic, reason and morality.
Your god is immoral.
He burns people in hell, tells them to repent, gives them no free will to repent. Then charges them on judgment day as guilty for not repenting.

Fact: freewill is expressed all throughout the Bible.
It is not a mans theology to believe in freewill.
It is Biblical, God breathed Truth.

 

[Kermos]

It is true no one can do anything if God does not allow it.
I do not define freewill as an ability to act freely above Gods sovereign authority.
Thus freewill is given us by God. He allows through His will to believe or disbelieve Him.


Correct, your religion is unbiblical and does not allow you to do anything.
You are a robot preprogrammed to think and act as God controls everything.
This is why it is funny that you insist man plays no part in his salvation, then you use YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS AS PROOF YOU ARE ELECT.



I claim I am the elect.
I claim I have Faith that Jesus is God, that Jesus was killed, buried and rose from the dead.
I claim only Jesus can wash away my sins, Matthew 26:28.
I claim God never let's go of His chosen elect.

Yet you will deny that my "testimony" proves I am of the elect.
YOU ARE USING THE SAME JUDGMENT TO "PROVE" YOU ARE ELECT.


Sounds like your religion is "man-centered".

Reality:
Kermos never chose God, his god will not allow him the ability.
Kermos is totally inabled to choose God or what he believes to be the gospel.

So, just as Kermos claims I am deceived, it can therefore be likewise true that God is also deceiving Kermos.
Kermos only thinks he is right because God foreordained his entire destiny.

Kermos has no freewill to know if he has chosen the right theology because his god does not allow him to choose what he believes.

The only way Kermos can know if he is elected is when he is dead and stands before God.
That is why there is no assurance of salvation in calvinism.


This is your religion defining how we must use words.
Self will is freewill.


Fine, God then forced these Jews to rebel against Him.
God forced these Jews to worship idols.
They could not choose the Lord Almighty, your words Kermos.

Yet God told them to turn from their sin repent and choose life.
Kermos says his god tells folks to repent and obey him, but at the same time controls their will that they do exactly the opposite of what he tells them to do.
Nonsense.

To believe your doctrine requires one to abandon logic, reason and morality.
Your god is immoral.
He burns people in hell, tells them to repent, gives them no free will to repent. Then charges them on judgment day as guilty for not repenting.

Fact: freewill is expressed all throughout the Bible.
It is not a mans theology to believe in freewill.
It is Biblical, God breathed Truth.

You deceive when you wrote "freewill is expressed all throughout the Bible", yet you cited zero Bible references as support for free-will because the ONLY reference by the Apostles to free-will is as an illusion with "I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Paul, Philemon 1:14).

You express your confused thoughts when you wrote "Self will is freewill", yet self-will is not the same as free-will according to the Holy Spirit because the Apostle Peter says self-will is a concrete thing leading exclusively to damnation with "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10) while the Apostle Paul refers to free-will as an illusory thing with "I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Paul, Philemon 1:14).

You wrote "Correct" in response to "You contempt against the Word of God", yet Lord Jesus is the Word of God because the Apostle John declares "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1) and "the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory" (John 1:14), so you agreed to your opposition to the Word of God and the Christ of us Christians proclaims that Christ does all these following outlined blessings for us Christians, who do no work of ourselves, with this Word of God:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

BEHOLD, ALL THAT GOD CAUSES FOR US CHRISTIANS!

Praise God the Potter of us vessels of mercy (Romans 9:21-23) for His lovingkindness endures forever (John 10:27-30)!

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN WAS IMPARTED FREE-WILL ABILITY TO CHOOSE GOD.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

Adam was evil while he did not sin prior to eating of the tree forbidden as food because Adam had one commandment as recorded in "Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it — dying thou dost die" (Genesis 2:16-17).

You have to explain, in Scriptures--that Adam was "evil" while he did not sin-prior to the tree forbidden.

I don't want philosophizing--just the Scripture references, and it would seem you hold firmly to the Calvinistic doctrines-not being facetious.

 

[Kermos]

You have to explain, in Scriptures--that Adam was "evil" while he did not sin-prior to the tree forbidden.

I don't want philosophizing--just the Scripture references, and it would seem you hold firmly to the Calvinistic doctrines-not being facetious.

The Christ of us Christians declares "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so the only state remaining for Adam is evil.

It appears to me that you call proclaiming the Word of God "philosophizing"-- as an evil thing - that is not good, Johann.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

The Christ of us Christians declares "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so the only state remaining for Adam is evil.

It appears to me that you call proclaiming the Word of God "philosophizing"-- as an evil thing - that is not good, Johann.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect?

The Bible says that “God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gn 1:31). Never is it said, however, that Adam and Eve were perfect. That word is applied to man, but never to mean without sin. To Abraham God said, “...walk before me, and be thou perfect” (Gn 17:1); of Job it is said “...that man was perfect and upright” (Job:1:1
); Jesus commanded, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Mt 5:48); Paul says that Scripture is given “that the man of God may be perfect” (2 Tm 3:17); etc. The meaning is maturity and a heart that desires to please God and do His will—but not without the possibility to sin. The Bible clearly says, “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not” (Eccl 7:20), and “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom:3:23
). Sin is coming short of the glory of God, in whose image Adam and Eve were created. Only God is perfect in the full sense of being without the possibility of sinning. Thus Jesus said, “...there is none good but one, that is, God” (Mt 19:17).

Adam and Eve must have been created with the power of choice, or God would not have given them a command and punished them for disobeying it. No one, not even Eve who was deceived by Satan, Judas of whom it is said that “Satan entered into him” (Jn:13:27
), or Ananias and Sapphira whose hearts “Satan filled...to lie to the Holy Ghost” (Acts:5:3
) can blame his or her sin on the devil; nor does God ever tempt man to sin (Jas 1:13), much less cause anyone to sin. All are without excuse.

If Adam and Eve were forced (or even tricked) into doing something against their will, they could hardly be held accountable, nor could that act be called sin. It makes even less sense that God would have caused them to sin. Thus God would be the author of evil and we would have the contradiction of God telling them not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him—a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.

Yet such, sadly, is the teaching of Calvinism. In his highly recommended book, the five points of calvinism, Edwin H. Palmer declares, “God...causes all things to hap- pen that do happen...the beating of a heart...laughter of a girl, the mistake of a typist— even sin” (p. 25).

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect?

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect? Response: The Bible says that &l

www.thebereancall.org

Why I left Calvinism-

1Sa_17:8 And he stood and cried unto the armies of Israel, and said unto them, Why are ye come out to set your battle in array? am not I a Philistine, and ye servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me.

2Sa_17:1 Moreover Ahithophel said unto Absalom, Let me now choose out twelve thousand men, and I will arise and pursue after David this night:

Isa_56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Jos_24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Etc. etc.

 

[Kermos]

It is true no one can do anything if God does not allow it.
I do not define freewill as an ability to act freely above Gods sovereign authority.
Thus freewill is given us by God. He allows through His will to believe or disbelieve Him.


Correct, your religion is unbiblical and does not allow you to do anything.
You are a robot preprogrammed to think and act as God controls everything.
This is why it is funny that you insist man plays no part in his salvation, then you use YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS AS PROOF YOU ARE ELECT.



I claim I am the elect.
I claim I have Faith that Jesus is God, that Jesus was killed, buried and rose from the dead.
I claim only Jesus can wash away my sins, Matthew 26:28.
I claim God never let's go of His chosen elect.

Yet you will deny that my "testimony" proves I am of the elect.
YOU ARE USING THE SAME JUDGMENT TO "PROVE" YOU ARE ELECT.


Sounds like your religion is "man-centered".

Reality:
Kermos never chose God, his god will not allow him the ability.
Kermos is totally inabled to choose God or what he believes to be the gospel.

So, just as Kermos claims I am deceived, it can therefore be likewise true that God is also deceiving Kermos.
Kermos only thinks he is right because God foreordained his entire destiny.

Kermos has no freewill to know if he has chosen the right theology because his god does not allow him to choose what he believes.

The only way Kermos can know if he is elected is when he is dead and stands before God.
That is why there is no assurance of salvation in calvinism.


This is your religion defining how we must use words.
Self will is freewill.


Fine, God then forced these Jews to rebel against Him.
God forced these Jews to worship idols.
They could not choose the Lord Almighty, your words Kermos.

Yet God told them to turn from their sin repent and choose life.
Kermos says his god tells folks to repent and obey him, but at the same time controls their will that they do exactly the opposite of what he tells them to do.
Nonsense.

To believe your doctrine requires one to abandon logic, reason and morality.
Your god is immoral.
He burns people in hell, tells them to repent, gives them no free will to repent. Then charges them on judgment day as guilty for not repenting.

Fact: freewill is expressed all throughout the Bible.
It is not a mans theology to believe in freewill.
It is Biblical, God breathed Truth.

I've been thinking about your post, Titus, and how you derogatorily wrote "Fine, God then forced these Jews to rebel against Him. God forced these Jews to worship idols. They could not choose the Lord Almighty, your words Kermos.", but I did not write such as you assert. I referred to the Jews as self-willed, not forced, but you adulterate the Word of God as shown in this post, and I am nothing compared to the Word of God, so it appears super easy for you to adulterate my words.

Back to the Jews, Titus.

The Apostles, even the whole congregation, lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, “O Lord, it is You who MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM, who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said, 'WHY DID THE GENTILES RAGE, AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS? THE KINGS OF THE EARTH TOOK THEIR STAND, AND THE RULERS WERE GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST THE LORD AND AGAINST HIS CHRIST.’ For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your Holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your Hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your slaves may speak Your Word with all confidence, while You extend Your Hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your Holy Servant Jesus.” (Acts 4:24-30)

God's intimate involvement with man is clearly articulated by the Apostles specifically addressing God's Hand in the prayer:

• in reference to those people who crucified Jesus the Christ.
• in reference to the growth of the Assembly of God in Jesus the Christ.

See that God reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35), but you think you reign in the affairs of God with "I free-will chose Jesus" thus you think you control God such that God must obey you to give you salvation.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN WAS IMPARTED WITH FREE-WILL TO CHOOSE GOD.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect?

The Bible says that “God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gn 1:31). Never is it said, however, that Adam and Eve were perfect. That word is applied to man, but never to mean without sin. To Abraham God said, “...walk before me, and be thou perfect” (Gn 17:1); of Job it is said “...that man was perfect and upright” (Job:1:1
); Jesus commanded, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Mt 5:48); Paul says that Scripture is given “that the man of God may be perfect” (2 Tm 3:17); etc. The meaning is maturity and a heart that desires to please God and do His will—but not without the possibility to sin. The Bible clearly says, “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not” (Eccl 7:20), and “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom:3:23
). Sin is coming short of the glory of God, in whose image Adam and Eve were created. Only God is perfect in the full sense of being without the possibility of sinning. Thus Jesus said, “...there is none good but one, that is, God” (Mt 19:17).

Adam and Eve must have been created with the power of choice, or God would not have given them a command and punished them for disobeying it. No one, not even Eve who was deceived by Satan, Judas of whom it is said that “Satan entered into him” (Jn:13:27
), or Ananias and Sapphira whose hearts “Satan filled...to lie to the Holy Ghost” (Acts:5:3
) can blame his or her sin on the devil; nor does God ever tempt man to sin (Jas 1:13), much less cause anyone to sin. All are without excuse.

If Adam and Eve were forced (or even tricked) into doing something against their will, they could hardly be held accountable, nor could that act be called sin. It makes even less sense that God would have caused them to sin. Thus God would be the author of evil and we would have the contradiction of God telling them not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him—a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.

Yet such, sadly, is the teaching of Calvinism. In his highly recommended book, the five points of calvinism, Edwin H. Palmer declares, “God...causes all things to hap- pen that do happen...the beating of a heart...laughter of a girl, the mistake of a typist— even sin” (p. 25).

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect?

Question: Were Adam and Eve created perfect? If so, how could they sin? If they were created with a will that could choose to sin, how could they have been perfect? Response: The Bible says that &l

www.thebereancall.org

Why I left Calvinism-

1Sa_17:8 And he stood and cried unto the armies of Israel, and said unto them, Why are ye come out to set your battle in array? am not I a Philistine, and ye servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me.

2Sa_17:1 Moreover Ahithophel said unto Absalom, Let me now choose out twelve thousand men, and I will arise and pursue after David this night:

Isa_56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Jos_24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Etc. etc.

You conflate "perfect" and "good" to your own peril.

Your heart exalts Adam to be good the same as Jesus is good - Jesus is God, and that is deadly error for you, Johann.

You are calling the Christ of us Christians a liar because the Word of God declares "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so the only state remaining for Adam is evil for Adam's entire life.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

Your heart exalts Adam to be good the same as Jesus is good - Jesus is God, and that is deadly error for you, Johann.

Not so, if you read around the posts of certain members, these have already reached a state of sinless perfection, NOT capable to commit a sin in word, thought or deed-do you sin?

 

[Kermos]

It is true no one can do anything if God does not allow it.
I do not define freewill as an ability to act freely above Gods sovereign authority.
Thus freewill is given us by God. He allows through His will to believe or disbelieve Him.


Correct, your religion is unbiblical and does not allow you to do anything.
You are a robot preprogrammed to think and act as God controls everything.
This is why it is funny that you insist man plays no part in his salvation, then you use YOUR OWN THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS AS PROOF YOU ARE ELECT.



I claim I am the elect.
I claim I have Faith that Jesus is God, that Jesus was killed, buried and rose from the dead.
I claim only Jesus can wash away my sins, Matthew 26:28.
I claim God never let's go of His chosen elect.

Yet you will deny that my "testimony" proves I am of the elect.
YOU ARE USING THE SAME JUDGMENT TO "PROVE" YOU ARE ELECT.


Sounds like your religion is "man-centered".

Reality:
Kermos never chose God, his god will not allow him the ability.
Kermos is totally inabled to choose God or what he believes to be the gospel.

So, just as Kermos claims I am deceived, it can therefore be likewise true that God is also deceiving Kermos.
Kermos only thinks he is right because God foreordained his entire destiny.

Kermos has no freewill to know if he has chosen the right theology because his god does not allow him to choose what he believes.

The only way Kermos can know if he is elected is when he is dead and stands before God.
That is why there is no assurance of salvation in calvinism.


This is your religion defining how we must use words.
Self will is freewill.


Fine, God then forced these Jews to rebel against Him.
God forced these Jews to worship idols.
They could not choose the Lord Almighty, your words Kermos.

Yet God told them to turn from their sin repent and choose life.
Kermos says his god tells folks to repent and obey him, but at the same time controls their will that they do exactly the opposite of what he tells them to do.
Nonsense.

To believe your doctrine requires one to abandon logic, reason and morality.
Your god is immoral.
He burns people in hell, tells them to repent, gives them no free will to repent. Then charges them on judgment day as guilty for not repenting.

Fact: freewill is expressed all throughout the Bible.
It is not a mans theology to believe in freewill.
It is Biblical, God breathed Truth.

I've been thinking about your post some more, Titus, with more focus on where you wrote:

I claim I am the elect.
I claim I have Faith that Jesus is God, that Jesus was killed, buried and rose from the dead.
I claim only Jesus can wash away my sins, Matthew 26:28.
I claim God never let's go of His chosen elect.

and

Yet you will deny that my "testimony" proves I am of the elect.
YOU ARE USING THE SAME JUDGMENT TO "PROVE" YOU ARE ELECT.

but I convey not as you assert. I refer to you as self-willed, not forced, but you adulterate the Word of God as shown in this post, and I am nothing compared to the Word of God, so it appears super easy for you to adulterate my words.

Now, let's examine your spirit just as the Apostle John instructs (1 John 4:1):

• your writing is "I claim I am the elect.", yet according to free-willian philosophy your work of "I chose Jesus" must be done by you in order for you to be saved from the wrath of God, but Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation; THEREFORE, YOU PRIDEFULLY THINK THAT YOU ARE ELECT (CHOSEN) BECAUSE OF YOUR UNGODLY CHOICE.
• your writing is "I claim I have Faith that Jesus is God, that Jesus was killed, buried and rose from the dead." (notice you claim "Faith" which is precisely the same thing as "Belief"), yet according to free-willian philosophy you work belief such that "I put my belief in Jesus" must be done by you in order for you to be saved from the wrath of God, but Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), so God exclusively imparts belief/faith into people (Ephesians 2:8-10); THEREFORE, YOU PRIDEFULLY THINK THAT YOU MANIPULATE YOUR BELIEF IN YOUR SELF-WILL (2 PETER 2:9-10).
• your writing is "I claim only Jesus can wash away my sins, Matthew 26:28.", yet according to free-willian philosophy you must come to the Light, Jesus, in the working of your own mighty strength in order for Jesus to wash away your sins, but Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians says "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21, includes salvation), so God forges people unto salvation, like wrought iron; THEREFORE, YOU PRIDEFULLY THINK THAT YOU FORGED YOUR OWN SALVATION SINCE YOUR SALVATION IS DEPENDENT UPON YOUR SELF-WILLED COMING TO JESUS.
• your writing is "I claim God never let's go of His chosen elect.", yet without retraction you contemptuously wrote "Kermos' false religion has NO assurance of salvation" and before that "Your religion has no assurance of salvation." with "That means God may someday do the same to you." against the Word of God, but your deception is evident because the following Word of God was proclaimed to you in response to your previous writings:
  
  
  Great is my God, Jesus Christ NEVER lets go of us, His own, for my Savior says "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10:27-30). PRAISE JESUS! HALLELUJAH! ALL GLORY AND PRAISE AND HONOR TO MY KING! I am nothing without you, Lord Jesus.
  
  My God never lets go of me, through the calm and through the storm, Jesus my Lord never lets go!
  
  Praise Jesus for the assurance of being saved from the wrath of God which He alone delivers the saints!
  ​
  
  SO, YOU BEAR THE SIN OF BEARING FALSE WITNESS (EXODUS 20:16).

Moving along to where you wrote:

Yet you will deny that my "testimony" proves I am of the elect.
YOU ARE USING THE SAME JUDGMENT TO "PROVE" YOU ARE ELECT.
​

As shown above, you deny the testimony of the Living and Loving Lord Jesus Christ, and this One True Mighty God announces "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48), SO, TITUS, SEE THE JUDGMENT AND HOW YOU ARE OUT OF ACCORD WITH CHRIST.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN WAS IMPARTED WITH FREE-WILL TO CHOOSE GOD.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Not so, if you read around the posts of certain members, these have already reached a state of sinless perfection, NOT capable to commit a sin in word, thought or deed-do you sin?

You persist in contorting "perfect" and "good" into the self-same thing, but each represents it's own distinct meaning; therefore, among other reasons, you arrive at your self-willed conclusion that Jesus says "every one is good (or capable of being good) even God alone" (the word of Johann),

Your heart exalts "certain members" and Adam to be good the same as Jesus is good - Jesus is God, and that is deadly error for you, Johann.

You are calling the Christ of us Christians a liar because the Word of God declares "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so the only state remaining for Adam is evil for Adam's entire life.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

You are calling the Christ of us Christians a liar because the Word of God declares "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so the only state remaining for Adam is evil for Adam's entire life.

Excuse my French--if you persist in saying I am calling Christ a liar, when you hold to a Calvinistic doctrine-on ignore you go @Kermos-don't presume you are my teacher.

 

[Kermos]

Excuse my French--if you persist in saying I am calling Christ a liar, when you hold to a Calvinistic doctrine-on ignore you go @Kermos-don't presume you are my teacher.

The Christ of us Christians declares "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), but you convey that you think Adam and "certain members" are good in your contorting of "perfect" and "good" into the self-same thing, but each represents it's own distinct meaning; therefore, among other reasons, you arrive at your self-willed conclusion that Jesus says "every one is good (or capable of being good) even God alone" (the word of Johann),

Your heart exalts "certain members" and Adam to be good the same as Jesus is good - Jesus is God, and that is deadly error for you, Johann.

The Christ of us Christians says "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so you speak against Christ, so you are calling Christ a liar the moment you think anyone else is "good" (or "perfect" according to your usage). The only state remaining for Adam is evil for Adam's entire life.

When you wrote "certain members, these have already reached a state of sinless perfection", if any of those "certain members" claims to have reached "a state of sinless perfection" in any way by their own free-will, then such "certain members" do not receive the words of Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians saying "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21, includes salvation) - think of "wrought" like "forge" as in "wrought iron". Any and all good in us Christians is caused by God alone.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

When you wrote "certain members, these have already reached a state of sinless perfection", if any of those "certain members" claims to have reached "a state of sinless perfection" in any way by their own free-will, then such "certain members" do not receive the words of Lord Jesus Christ of us Christians saying "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21, includes salvation) - think of "wrought" like "forge" as in "wrought iron". Any and all good in us Christians is caused by God alone.

You are assuming too much, many here have reached a state of sinless perfection, unable to commit a hamartia in word, thought and deed, and "hearing voices" OUTSIDE what stands written--I am a sinner saved by grace and don't stand a chance with these "sinless perfection giants"


Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

However, reading this portion of scripture MUST cause you to think--

I'm sorry, I don't hold to Calvinistic theology--the Middle, Passive and Imperatives shows me clearly that IN Christ, WE need to yield obedience to the Imperatives of Christ-our sanctified thelema/boule, not as unbelievers do.

You think I'm here to be popular-having my ego stroked?

 

[Kermos]

You are assuming too much, many here have reached a state of sinless perfection, unable to commit a hamartia in word, thought and deed, and "hearing voices" OUTSIDE what stands written--I am a sinner saved by grace and don't stand a chance with these "sinless perfection giants"


Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

However, reading this portion of scripture MUST cause you to think--

I'm sorry, I don't hold to Calvinistic theology--the Middle, Passive and Imperatives shows me clearly that IN Christ, WE need to yield obedience to the Imperatives of Christ-our sanctified thelema/boule, not as unbelievers do.

You think I'm here to be popular-having my ego stroked?

Johann, regardless of Middle, Passive and Imperatives (as you just wrote), the Gospel of Christ includes that Christ is in control while man is entirely dependent upon Christ for delivery from the body of sin (see Romans 6:6 in your post).

Man works no such choice as "I chose to believe in Jesus Christ" because the Christ of us Christians says, Christ our Benefactor says,

1. Our gracious Benefactor produces
   1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
      AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
   2. beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
      "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
   3. beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
   4. beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
   5. beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)
      AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus' words with thier saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
   6. beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)
      AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7, see the phrase "love is from God" meaning God is the source of true love)
      AND John expands with his writing of "God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him" (1 John 4:16, see the phrase "one who abides in Love" is equivocated with "one who abides" "in God" which extends from God's exclusivity with "God is Love")
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

Johann, regardless of Middle, Passive and Imperatives (as you just wrote), the Gospel of Christ includes that Christ is in control while man is entirely dependent upon Christ for delivery from the body of sin (see Romans 6:6 in your post).

I have no problem with what you wrote here--we should be entirely dependent upon Christ for everything, delivery from the body of sin, etc.
Our will should be united as echad to Christ, I am not advocating a "will" independently from our Lord Christ Jesus brother, but a sanctified will, fully yielded TO Christ.

Where I have a problem is that we are mere "robots"--even after we have been drawn by God to Christ-UNABLE to make choices<< after the rebirth.

Even believers are going to stand before Christ to give and account--in word, thought and deed, based on the "Choices" they have made.

Like you, I can quote Scriptures to make a case for "choice"--Sanctified choices, nonetheless-

I'm happy to see you don't persist in me making Christ Jesus a liar @Kermos

Instead of dismissing the Middle, Passive, Imperatives-why not study them?

 

[Titus]

THEREFORE, YOU PRIDEFULLY THINK THAT YOU ARE ELECT (CHOSEN) BECAUSE OF YOUR UNGODLY CHOICE.

One of the most respected debaters of reformed theology today is Matt Slick.
Matt Slicks daughter believed many many years that she like her father was elect.
She was taught from her father Matt Slick.
She still to this day interprets scripture as her dad taught her through the eyes of men like Augustine and John Calvin.
She never believed that she had the ability to believe.
The false doctrine of total depravity is why calvanist refuse to believe it is possible to choose God while still an alien sinner.
So, Mr. Slicks daughter believed God elected her through no ability of her own.
She did not choose God, God only chose her.
Matt Slick believed for many, many years that his daughter, Rachael was regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Rachael taught and said the exact same things you say Kermos.
She would have argued just as you do that she was elect.
But guess what, she is now an atheist.

You can claim my "pride" is why I say I am elected but it proves nothing.

Rachael Slick had no "pride" thinking she choose God through free will.
Yet just like you, was convinced she had the true interpretation of the Scriptures.

Rachael is no longer a believer in God. She is now an outspoken atheist.

Since you are nothing more than a preprogrammed robot kermos.
God may do the same to you as "he" did to Rachael Slick.

Convince her she was elect, then later in life ordain that she deny her faith and be shown to be a true reprobate bound for eternal hell as the true purpose/destiny your god chose for her.


There is zero assurance of salvation in kermos' religion.

Kermos, God is controlling every thing you believe when it comes to faith in God.

You have no power no freewill to choose to be a "christian" anymore than Racael Slick has chosen to be a calvinist now turned atheist.


It's sad you are blind to your own doctrine's reality.

If God is so cruel that He does not allow anyone to be saved by there own will.
Then it must be true that anyone who thinks they are saved can be wrong because THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO EFFECT WHAT GOD CHOOSES FOR THEM.

Your god, Kermos HATES BABIES, HATES MEN AND WOMEN BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN BORN! Creates some only for the purpose of eternal hell.

How can anyone know having no freewill no ability to give their life to God, that they are loved by this god? You cannot know because your god is full of hate for some AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYONE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Can you trust a God that may hate you Kermos? Rachael believed that she was loved by this same god that you have put your trust in.

You have no assurance that your fate will not be the same as Rachael Slick.

God may have given you strong delusion Kermos.
You may actually be hated by your god. He has blinded you so that you might be deceived.

2Thessalonians 2:10-11,
- and with unrighteous deception among those who perish because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
- and for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie.


Kermos, Rachael was deceived and now is deceived into believing there is no God.
What fate has your god determined for Kermos? You cannot know!

Last, Kermos I believe that Jesus Christ is God!
I believe that He was crucified on a cross by His own brethren!
I believe that He rose from the dead!
I believe that He is God in the flesh and that ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN MAN BE SAVED AND HAVE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.
I Love Jesus more than I love my own father mother sister brother.
I will die for Jesus just as the apostles were martyred for him.
I am a true believer in Christ!!!!

And I chose to believe the gospel by my freewill that God gave me.

In your theology aka calvinism this is impossible!

You keep saying I'm unsaved.
Guess what Kermos?
Every time you calim I'm unsaved. You are saying UNSAVED NON-ELECT REPROBATES CAN BELIEVE IN JESUS!!!!

You forgot your religions doctrines all of a sudden?

Remember this passage?
1Corinthians 12:3,
- Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Titus: I believe Jesus is Lord with all my heart.
With all my spirit.
With all my soull!

I am living proof calvinism is a false religion that teaches the doctrines of men.

Calvinism does not allow the "unregenerate as Kermos claims I am" to believe in Jesus!
Yet here I am!

Conclusion: Total depravity also means total inability to believe in Jesus.
NO FREEWILL TO CHOOSE GOD.

I am living proof this is false doctrine.
I studied my way into being a believer in Christ by my freewill.

Calvinism teaches christianity is a direct miraculous miracle done to you, that you cannot play any part in your faith.

The Bible teaches faith comes from learning through the rational minds God has given us,

Romans 10:17,
John 20:30-31,
- and truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing you may have  life in His name.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

 

[Johann]

One of the most respected debaters of reformed theology today is Matt Slick.
Matt Slicks daughter believed many many years that she like her father was elect.
She was taught from her father Matt Slick.
She still to this day interprets scripture as her dad taught her through the eyes of men like Augustine and John Calvin.
She never believed that she had the ability to believe.
The false doctrine of total depravity is why calvanist refuse to believe it is possible to choose God while still an alien sinner.
So, Mr. Slicks daughter believed God elected her through no ability of her own.
She did not choose God, God only chose her.
Matt Slick believed for many, many years that his daughter, Rachael was regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Rachael taught and said the exact same things you say Kermos.
She would have argued just as you do that she was elect.
But guess what, she is now an atheist.

You can claim my "pride" is why I say I am elected but it proves nothing.

Rachael Slick had no "pride" thinking she choose God through free will.
Yet just like you, was convinced she had the true interpretation of the Scriptures.

Rachael is no longer a believer in God. She is now an outspoken atheist.

Since you are nothing more than a preprogrammed robot kermos.
God may do the same to you as "he" did to Rachael Slick.

Convince her she was elect, then later in life ordain that she deny her faith and be shown to be a true reprobate bound for eternal hell as the true purpose/destiny your god chose for her.


There is zero assurance of salvation in kermos' religion.

Kermos, God is controlling every thing you believe when it comes to faith in God.

You have no power no freewill to choose to be a "christian" anymore than Racael Slick has chosen to be a calvinist now turned atheist.


It's sad you are blind to your own doctrine's reality.

If God is so cruel that He does not allow anyone to be saved by there own will.
Then it must be true that anyone who thinks they are saved can be wrong because THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO EFFECT WHAT GOD CHOOSES FOR THEM.

Your god, Kermos HATES BABIES, HATES MEN AND WOMEN BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN BORN! Creates some only for the purpose of eternal hell.

How can anyone know having no freewill no ability to give their life to God, that they are loved by this god? You cannot know because your god is full of hate for some AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYONE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Can you trust a God that may hate you Kermos? Rachael believed that she was loved by this same god that you have put your trust in.

You have no assurance that your fate will not be the same as Rachael Slick.

God may have given you strong delusion Kermos.
You may actually be hated by your god. He has blinded you so that you might be deceived.

2Thessalonians 2:10-11,
- and with unrighteous deception among those who perish because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
- and for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie.


Kermos, Rachael was deceived and now is deceived into believing there is no God.
What fate has your god determined for Kermos? You cannot know!

Last, Kermos I believe that Jesus Christ is God!
I believe that He was crucified on a cross by His own brethren!
I believe that He rose from the dead!
I believe that He is God in the flesh and that ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN MAN BE SAVED AND HAVE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.
I Love Jesus more than I love my own father mother sister brother.
I will die for Jesus just as the apostles were martyred for him.
I am a true believer in Christ!!!!

And I chose to believe the gospel by my freewill that God gave me.

In your theology aka calvinism this is impossible!

You keep saying I'm unsaved.
Guess what Kermos?
Every time you calim I'm unsaved. You are saying UNSAVED NON-ELECT REPROBATES CAN BELIEVE IN JESUS!!!!

You forgot your religions doctrines all of a sudden?

Remember this passage?
1Corinthians 12:3,
- Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Titus: I believe Jesus is Lord with all my heart.
With all my spirit.
With all my soull!

I am living proof calvinism is a false religion that teaches the doctrines of men.

Calvinism does not allow the "unregenerate as Kermos claims I am" to believe in Jesus!
Yet here I am!

Conclusion: Total depravity also means total inability to believe in Jesus.
NO FREEWILL TO CHOOSE GOD.

I am living proof this is false doctrine.
I studied my way into being a believer in Christ by my freewill.

Calvinism teaches christianity is a direct miraculous miracle done to you, that you cannot play any part in your faith.

The Bible teaches faith comes from learning through the rational minds God has given us,

Romans 10:17,
John 20:30-31,
- and truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing you may have  life in His name.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

I was rather hoping he would answer you--powerful post.

 

[Kermos]

I have no problem with what you wrote here--we should be entirely dependent upon Christ for everything, delivery from the body of sin, etc.
Our will should be united as echad to Christ, I am not advocating a "will" independently from our Lord Christ Jesus brother, but a sanctified will, fully yielded TO Christ.

Where I have a problem is that we are mere "robots"--even after we have been drawn by God to Christ-UNABLE to make choices<< after the rebirth.

Even believers are going to stand before Christ to give and account--in word, thought and deed, based on the "Choices" they have made.

Like you, I can quote Scriptures to make a case for "choice"--Sanctified choices, nonetheless-

I'm happy to see you don't persist in me making Christ Jesus a liar @Kermos

Instead of dismissing the Middle, Passive, Imperatives-why not study them?

Johann, your second paragraph states:

Where I have a problem is that we are mere "robots"--even after we have been drawn by God to Christ-UNABLE to make choices<< after the rebirth.
​

You say "robots", but the Apostle Paul wonderfully says clay in the Potter's Hand (Romans 9:21-23).

I wrote not of inability to make all choices, but, specifically, the Word of God says man does not choose Jesus the Only Good God with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) and "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

In your third paragraph, you wrote:

Even believers are going to stand before Christ to give and account--in word, thought and deed, based on the "Choices" they have made.
​

No Scripture states that believers will stand before Christ to give an account for choices made in word, thought, and deed. The key word, even concept, is "choices".

In your fourth paragraph, you wrote:

Like you, I can quote Scriptures to make a case for "choice"--Sanctified choices, nonetheless-
​

But, you didn't. No matter where you look, you will fail to find a passage that nullifies the Word of God quoted above (John 15:16, John 15:19, Mark 13:37).

The Christ of us Christians says that any good we do in word, thought, and deed - any and all good - our fruit is because of Christ in us with "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

SEE "APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING" (JOHN 15:5).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

One of the most respected debaters of reformed theology today is Matt Slick.
Matt Slicks daughter believed many many years that she like her father was elect.
She was taught from her father Matt Slick.
She still to this day interprets scripture as her dad taught her through the eyes of men like Augustine and John Calvin.
She never believed that she had the ability to believe.
The false doctrine of total depravity is why calvanist refuse to believe it is possible to choose God while still an alien sinner.
So, Mr. Slicks daughter believed God elected her through no ability of her own.
She did not choose God, God only chose her.
Matt Slick believed for many, many years that his daughter, Rachael was regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Rachael taught and said the exact same things you say Kermos.
She would have argued just as you do that she was elect.
But guess what, she is now an atheist.

You can claim my "pride" is why I say I am elected but it proves nothing.

Rachael Slick had no "pride" thinking she choose God through free will.
Yet just like you, was convinced she had the true interpretation of the Scriptures.

Rachael is no longer a believer in God. She is now an outspoken atheist.

Since you are nothing more than a preprogrammed robot kermos.
God may do the same to you as "he" did to Rachael Slick.

Convince her she was elect, then later in life ordain that she deny her faith and be shown to be a true reprobate bound for eternal hell as the true purpose/destiny your god chose for her.


There is zero assurance of salvation in kermos' religion.

Kermos, God is controlling every thing you believe when it comes to faith in God.

You have no power no freewill to choose to be a "christian" anymore than Racael Slick has chosen to be a calvinist now turned atheist.


It's sad you are blind to your own doctrine's reality.

If God is so cruel that He does not allow anyone to be saved by there own will.
Then it must be true that anyone who thinks they are saved can be wrong because THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO EFFECT WHAT GOD CHOOSES FOR THEM.

Your god, Kermos HATES BABIES, HATES MEN AND WOMEN BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN BORN! Creates some only for the purpose of eternal hell.

How can anyone know having no freewill no ability to give their life to God, that they are loved by this god? You cannot know because your god is full of hate for some AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYONE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Can you trust a God that may hate you Kermos? Rachael believed that she was loved by this same god that you have put your trust in.

You have no assurance that your fate will not be the same as Rachael Slick.

God may have given you strong delusion Kermos.
You may actually be hated by your god. He has blinded you so that you might be deceived.

2Thessalonians 2:10-11,
- and with unrighteous deception among those who perish because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
- and for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie.


Kermos, Rachael was deceived and now is deceived into believing there is no God.
What fate has your god determined for Kermos? You cannot know!

Last, Kermos I believe that Jesus Christ is God!
I believe that He was crucified on a cross by His own brethren!
I believe that He rose from the dead!
I believe that He is God in the flesh and that ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN MAN BE SAVED AND HAVE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.
I Love Jesus more than I love my own father mother sister brother.
I will die for Jesus just as the apostles were martyred for him.
I am a true believer in Christ!!!!

And I chose to believe the gospel by my freewill that God gave me.

In your theology aka calvinism this is impossible!

You keep saying I'm unsaved.
Guess what Kermos?
Every time you calim I'm unsaved. You are saying UNSAVED NON-ELECT REPROBATES CAN BELIEVE IN JESUS!!!!

You forgot your religions doctrines all of a sudden?

Remember this passage?
1Corinthians 12:3,
- Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Titus: I believe Jesus is Lord with all my heart.
With all my spirit.
With all my soull!

I am living proof calvinism is a false religion that teaches the doctrines of men.

Calvinism does not allow the "unregenerate as Kermos claims I am" to believe in Jesus!
Yet here I am!

Conclusion: Total depravity also means total inability to believe in Jesus.
NO FREEWILL TO CHOOSE GOD.

I am living proof this is false doctrine.
I studied my way into being a believer in Christ by my freewill.

Calvinism teaches christianity is a direct miraculous miracle done to you, that you cannot play any part in your faith.

The Bible teaches faith comes from learning through the rational minds God has given us,

Romans 10:17,
John 20:30-31,
- and truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing you may have  life in His name.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

Don't tell me about other people, Titus. You skate passed all the Scripture God had me proclaim to you. You didn't respond to one.

No Scripture states man was created with a free-will. No Scripture you cited states man has a free-will, so your "I chose to believe the gospel by my freewill that God gave me" is a tradition of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God reigns:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.