Veganism

[BarneyFife]

I'm not sure if it is a response to the OP, but I'm asking why restoration of the original diet (if Marriage is restored to the original, and the animals, themselves, will be restored to their original diet--if Messiah is a restorer of things to their original states) is optional.

It's really only optional relative to a believer's viewpoint and experience.

The main principles involved are the ethical treatment of animals, glorifying God in our bodies, and the duty to God as stewards of the human machinery—which is tied to the sanctity and preservation of human life.

Believers from different backgrounds are bound to be all over the map on this.

If you're familiar with Nat Geo's Dan Beuttner and the Blue Zones, you'll know that one of them are the Seventh-day Adventists that live in Loma Linda, California who are, actually the only BZ group that isn't losing their longevity edge in the wake of the healthcare failings of the last 10 years or so. They claim that their total lifestyle, including little or no animal products in their diet, is what keeps them alive and active up to a hundred years or more, and it's hard to refute their claims.

Mainstream science is getting on board with this, and it won't be long until all the major health authorities are compelled to change their official position to reflect the overwhelming evidence. Some already have. I won't name them here as it just seems to provide a place to slap a bullseye for information assasins.

I just heard today that the US government is considering changing the labeling of foods to classify items as "healthy" relative to their reduction of sodium, sugar, and saturated fat.

 

[BarneyFife]

Where did the Lord say eating meat was not healthy?

If that's all one is doing like those doing the carnivore diet, then that would be excessive and not healthy

On the other hand, those not eating any meat at all that is excessive as well and not healthy.

In fact, vegans have to take supplements due to not eating meat in order to not be deficient in certain nourishment that comes from eating meat.

Tell that to the hundreds of millions of poor people of the world who have little or no access to animal food products nor supplemental Vitamin E and B12. They get it naturally—which largely Caucasian Americans can do more easily since they can get E more efficiently from sunlight and can afford a better quality of food such as legumes that feed the microbiome that produces B12 in the gut.

:

 

[GracePeace]

Tell that to the hundreds of millions of poor people of the world who have little or no access to animal food products nor supplemental Vitamin E and B12. They get it naturally—which largely Caucasian Americans can do more easily since they can get E more efficiently from sunlight and can afford a better quality of food such as legumes that feed the microbiome that produces B12 in the gut.

:

Dr. Gabriel Cousens says the B12 created in the gut does you no good unless you eat your poop (like rodents, which do not suffer from a B12 deficiency), and, so, it behooves us to find a more palatable source. lol

 

[BarneyFife]

As in those that don't eat healthy... the Lord sends to hell? View attachment 59695

Some folks have larger, more nuanced concerns that can't be reduced to an all-or-nothing logical fallacy.

Love sometimes compels people to do/be the best they can for Jesus rather than keep their eyes open for loopholes to justify their carnal desires.

:

 

[GracePeace]

It's really only optional relative to a believer's viewpoint and experience.

The main principles involved are the ethical treatment of animals, glorifying God in our bodies, and the duty to God as stewards of the human machinery—which is tied to the sanctity and preservation of human life.

Believers from different backgrounds are bound to be all over the map on this.

If you're familiar with Nat Geo's Dan Beuttner and the Blue Zones, you'll know that one of them are the Seventh-day Adventists that live in Loma Linda, California who are, actually the only BZ group that isn't losing their longevity edge in the wake of the healthcare failings of the last 10 years or so. They claim that their total lifestyle, including little or no animal products in their diet, is what keeps them alive and active up to a hundred years or more, and it's hard to refute their claims.

Mainstream science is getting on board with this, and it won't be long until all the major health authorities are compelled to change their official position to reflect the overwhelming evidence. Some already have. I won't name them here as it just seems to provide a place to slap a bullseye for information assasins.

I just heard today that the US government is considering changing the labeling of foods to classify items as "healthy" relative to their reduction of sodium, sugar, and saturated fat.

Yup, SDAs represent a Blue Zone.
Nutritionfacts.org discusses the verified benefits of vegetarianism, but guys like Dr. Cousens go all the way with raw veganism.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Forbidding the eating of meat is doctrines of demons... the tares enjoy this sort of thing.

1 Timothy 4:1-5
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

[BarneyFife]

Forbidding the eating of meat is doctrines of demons... the tares enjoy this sort of thing.

No one is forbidding anyone to do anything. There's nothing for demons or tares to enjoy here.

:

 

[Dan Clarkston]

1 Timothy 4:1-5 says it's a doctrine of demons

 

[BarneyFife]

1 Timothy 4:1-5 says it's a doctrine of demons

Encouraging someone to eat the best quality of food they can afford is a doctrine of demons——Got it.

Now, shoo!

:

 

[GracePeace]

Encouraging someone to eat the best quality of food they can afford is a doctrine of demons——Got it.

Now, shoo!

It's difficult to wrap my mind around it.

Paul says, "receiving in themselves the penalty due their error" (one proof the gays are sinning, in case there's any doubt, is that they are being penalized, given STDs, for their error), and no one is getting away with eating foods that are unhealthy for them, but, rather, God has determined to give them all manner of diseases and parasites because of them eating those foods, so, how is their "receiving in themselves the penalty due" not proof" of their having erred?
Are we supposed to jump off the high place, because the angels will catch us, or isn't eating unhealthily putting God to the test?
And even though God has decided to reverse many diseases in the past, He has not reversed the accelerated aging caused by eating unhealthy foods. What about the damage to the DNA (which is aging)--is He "healing" that as well, or no?

Also, "love does no harm", but eating unhealthily does plenty of harm to oneself--and but seems like a nice gesture for one's guests, cooking for them, is actually harming one's guests.
This goes back to Genesis 1, which Jesus uses as the standard for deciding what marriage is.

Now, on the other hand, Jesus says there are certain truths that corresponds to certain rewards which are not mandatory for men to follow--ie, which are not necessarily sin to not observe--eg, celibacy. Yes, it is better, more rewarding, to be celibate, and, yet, not all men can accept that reality, only those to whom it is given.
Therefore, it may be that this truth that raw veganism is the best way to eat may correspond to rewards but not to righteousness versus sin.
I am not sure, since "sin" means "miss the mark", and God tells the people who He says are saying "it is for no reason that we have walked in mourning before the Lord", so, if we "miss the mark", doesn't that "mark" always correspond to a reward of some sort? Paul says "let us remain at the level to which we have attained".

I guess it sorta makes sense to say the raw veganism is sorta like celibacy--not that it is a sin to not observe it, but, for sure, you are not getting the maximum reward... but, then, if I establish that as a precedent ("I don't get the maximum reward"), what, really, am I doing?

Also, again, "love does no harm", but not eating raw vegan does lead to lots of penalties, things people would rather avoid--diseases and accelerated aging--which they then try to reverse by buying medicines and creams and exercising. It really is confusion.

 

[BarneyFife]

It's difficult to wrap my mind around it.

Paul says, "receiving in themselves the penalty due their error" (one proof the gays are sinning, in case there's any doubt, is that they are being penalized, given STDs, for their error), and no one is getting away with eating foods that are unhealthy for them, but, rather, God has determined to give them all manner of diseases and parasites because of them eating those foods, so, how is their "receiving in themselves the penalty due" not proof" of their having erred?
Are we supposed to jump off the high place, because the angels will catch us, or isn't eating unhealthily putting God to the test?
And even though God has decided to reverse many diseases in the past, He has not reversed the accelerated aging caused by eating unhealthy foods. What about the damage to the DNA (which is aging)--is He "healing" that as well, or no?

Also, "love does no harm", but eating unhealthily does plenty of harm to oneself--and but seems like a nice gesture for one's guests, cooking for them, is actually harming one's guests.
This goes back to Genesis 1, which Jesus uses as the standard for deciding what marriage is.

Now, on the other hand, Jesus says there are certain truths that corresponds to certain rewards which are not mandatory for men to follow--ie, which are not necessarily sin to not observe--eg, celibacy. Yes, it is better, more rewarding, to be celibate, and, yet, not all men can accept that reality, only those to whom it is given.
Therefore, it may be that this truth that raw veganism is the best way to eat may correspond to rewards but not to righteousness versus sin.
I am not sure, since "sin" means "miss the mark", and God tells the people who He says are saying "it is for no reason that we have walked in mourning before the Lord", so, if we "miss the mark", doesn't that "mark" always correspond to a reward of some sort? Paul says "let us remain at the level to which we have attained".

I guess it sorta makes sense to say the raw veganism is sorta like celibacy--not that it is a sin to not observe it, but, for sure, you are not getting the maximum reward... but, then, if I establish that as a precedent ("I don't get the maximum reward"), what, really, am I doing?

Also, again, "love does no harm", but not eating raw vegan does lead to lots of penalties, things people would rather avoid--diseases and accelerated aging--which they then try to reverse by buying medicines and creams and exercising. It really is confusion.

A person could easily drive himself crazy trying to get the absolute best quality food possible. And then there are other considerations: When to eat exactly; how much exactly; what kind of exercise to do and when, to aid optimal digestion; whether to drink or not with meals (dilution of gastric fluids, you know); some foods clash with other foods in digestion; some vegetables yield different/better nutrients when cooked, etc., etc., etc.

But with Jesus, there is grace; His yoke is easy, His burden is light.

 

[GracePeace]

A person could easily drive himself crazy trying to get the absolute best quality food possible. And then there are other considerations: When to eat exactly; how much exactly; what kind of exercise to do and when, to aid optimal digestion; whether to drink or not with meals (dilution of gastric fluids, you know); some foods clash with other foods in digestion; some vegetables yield different/better nutrients when cooked, etc., etc., etc.

But with Jesus, there is grace; His yoke is easy, His burden is light.

Why couldn't it be a grace to conform to the best choices in each of these cases?
Why is the best choice automatically not grace?
Is it a lighter burden to be cursed with diseases by choices made or to be blessed with health by choices made?

The odd thing is it seems you can be right with God spiritually while being cursed/punished by God physically.

 

[Taken]

I dont understand what to do concerning (esp raw) veganism.
Problem : Paul seemingly forbids this.
Also, Jesus fed bread and fish to His disciples... however, God leads people into truth little by little, so He may have permitted it then knowing things would change in the future.

Anyway, maybe someone else has been concerned about this, and has thought about it. I don't know what to make of these things.

Kinda long, yet in brief.

You actually have a conclusion to you concern…as you said;

“God leads people into truth little by little”.

Gods “ORDER and WAY”.

* Seeds;
to reproduce its SAME KIND of thing.

* Seeds;
God scattered over the Earth.

* God created a Garden;
* God created man out of the Earth.
* God made the man Alive.
* God Put the man IN the Garden.

* Seeds;
Reproducing, grasses, trees with Fruit, Herbs … To be MEAT for man to EAT.

* ONE Warning;
Eat all man desires…Avoid this ONE Trees Fruit….and the Consequence IF man chose to Eat of that Tree.

* The “Why” to Avoid Then, understanding comes Later.

* FIRE… what it is, how to use, what it does, it’s good effect, it’s destructive effect understanding, comes later.

* Animals…in Garden.

* mans body life Blood.
* animals body life Blood.

* First Blood Living thing to Die…Two Animals.
* First Male, Woman, could, SEE the effect of an Animal’s Dead, Lifeless Body…AND thus Discover, an encounter of Bodily Death, they too shall bodily experience.

* First Clothing.
Man…plant leaves
God…Animal Skins
Purpose…Consequence…Cover Shameful Body that Rejected Gods Warning.

* Point?
The little by little knowledge revealed…understanding Later.

* Herbs, Fruit, RAW First Food for man.
Animals Blood (Life) Dies First.
Animals Skin provides Cover for man.
* Later Fire revealed.
Fire, Powerful; Warms man, Warms water, steams / cooks foods, Can destroy a man,,
* a new MEAT, (in addition to Herbs, Fruits,), Animal Tissue.
* Cooked meat with Fire…
When, (prairie )
How, (spit)
Why, delightful Aroma and Taste, AND (a prelude)…For Animal CARE…and Presentment to “future” Temple Sacrifice…
For: remission of Sins (Rejecting God)…
For: Ritual/Ceremonial FOOD FOR: Priests.

Why? The (prelude) of Big Picture…
mans satisfaction…tending, raising, gathering, killing, Using, aroma, taste, enjoyment, body sustaining… recognizing Gods Order / Way… Thankfulness TO God for His Provisions and Knowledge…

More Understanding…
Each Step…Order and Way “of God”…
IS the Beginning knowledge …
(Of man, and FOOD to prepare and sustain mans body…)
THAT WHICH;
Sets the Stage preparing manKind…
FOR;
(Of man, and FOOD to BECOME prepar-ED and sustain-ED…By, Through, Of…
* Gods Food…His Word
* Gods Purifying…Fire
* Mans Consumption…Life Sustainability
* Satisfaction..God AND man.

( Considering…the fire for cooking..)
Not to forget, the bugs, parasites, etc that plague, infest plants, herbs, animals and fires’ power to destroy and purify).

And in todays’ market…usual and routine to use toxins to kill pests, harvest unripened fruits, vegetables, transport for weeks. ( not fresh and local), load with harmful preservatives, package pretty, And cause a full belly, while destroying organs and body systems.

Raw?
Fire / heat / steam cooked…seems to me…Scripture Holds a Higher Regard on Local, Fresh, Clean, Raw, Cooked, sensible to know, (bugs, parasites, eat the same, herbs, fruits, animals, as People).
And…discover and mimic Gods Order and Way of the Big Picture of mans forever sustainability IS His Way.

Personally…
If We “Store buy” WE Wash it, WE Cook it.
If We “Raise it” WE natural Tend, natural Fertilize, wash, consume raw and cook.

Preference and cautious about the handling, processing, toxins, transporting, unknown facts.

 

[GracePeace]

Kinda long, yet in brief.

You actually have a conclusion to you concern…as you said;

“God leads people into truth little by little”.

Gods “ORDER and WAY”.

* Seeds;
to reproduce its SAME KIND of thing.

* Seeds;
God scattered over the Earth.

* God created a Garden;
* God created man out of the Earth.
* God made the man Alive.
* God Put the man IN the Garden.

* Seeds;
Reproducing, grasses, trees with Fruit, Herbs … To be MEAT for man to EAT.

* ONE Warning;
Eat all man desires…Avoid this ONE Trees Fruit….and the Consequence IF man chose to Eat of that Tree.

* The “Why” to Avoid Then, understanding comes Later.

* FIRE… what it is, how to use, what it does, it’s good effect, it’s destructive effect understanding, comes later.

* Animals…in Garden.

* mans body life Blood.
* animals body life Blood.

* First Blood Living thing to Die…Two Animals.
* First Male, Woman, could, SEE the effect of an Animal’s Dead, Lifeless Body…AND thus Discover, an encounter of Bodily Death, they too shall bodily experience.

* First Clothing.
Man…plant leaves
God…Animal Skins
Purpose…Consequence…Cover Shameful Body that Rejected Gods Warning.

* Point?
The little by little knowledge revealed…understanding Later.

* Herbs, Fruit, RAW First Food for man.
Animals Blood (Life) Dies First.
Animals Skin provides Cover for man.
* Later Fire revealed.
Fire, Powerful; Warms man, Warms water, steams / cooks foods, Can destroy a man,,
* a new MEAT, (in addition to Herbs, Fruits,), Animal Tissue.
* Cooked meat with Fire…
When, (prairie )
How, (spit)
Why, delightful Aroma and Taste, AND (a prelude)…For Animal CARE…and Presentment to “future” Temple Sacrifice…
For: remission of Sins (Rejecting God)…
For: Ritual/Ceremonial FOOD FOR: Priests.

Why? The (prelude) of Big Picture…
mans satisfaction…tending, raising, gathering, killing, Using, aroma, taste, enjoyment, body sustaining… recognizing Gods Order / Way… Thankfulness TO God for His Provisions and Knowledge…

More Understanding…
Each Step…Order and Way “of God”…
IS the Beginning knowledge …
(Of man, and FOOD to prepare and sustain mans body…)
THAT WHICH;
Sets the Stage preparing manKind…
FOR;
(Of man, and FOOD to BECOME prepar-ED and sustain-ED…By, Through, Of…
* Gods Food…His Word
* Gods Purifying…Fire
* Mans Consumption…Life Sustainability
* Satisfaction..God AND man.

( Considering…the fire for cooking..)
Not to forget, the bugs, parasites, etc that plague, infest plants, herbs, animals and fires’ power to destroy and purify).

And in todays’ market…usual and routine to use toxins to kill pests, harvest unripened fruits, vegetables, transport for weeks. ( not fresh and local), load with harmful preservatives, package pretty, And cause a full belly, while destroying organs and body systems.

Raw?
Fire / heat / steam cooked…seems to me…Scripture Holds a Higher Regard on Local, Fresh, Clean, Raw, Cooked, sensible to know, (bugs, parasites, eat the same, herbs, fruits, animals, as People).
And…discover and mimic Gods Order and Way of the Big Picture of mans forever sustainability IS His Way.

Personally…
If We “Store buy” WE Wash it, WE Cook it.
If We “Raise it” WE natural Tend, natural Fertilize, wash, consume raw and cook.

Preference and cautious about the handling, processing, toxins, transporting, unknown facts.

I'm not even saying I maintain a raw vegan diet. I'm still trying to understand the whole issue, so I can't commit to it (and can't commit with the correct reasoning and intention) yet.

 

[Taken]

I'm not even saying I maintain a raw vegan diet. I'm still trying to understand the whole issue, so I can't commit to it (and can't commit with the correct reasoning and intention) yet.

Little by little knowledge Before Understanding.
Everything about ManKind, mans Habitat, mans Food source, all First “Created” in The “Natural”…it is Gods “Making” of such “Creations”… that reveals the transformation from Natural to Perfection…
by, through, of the Purification of Fire.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BarneyFife]

Man, chatting with you is really rewarding—you're so remarkably thoughtful.

Why couldn't it be a grace to conform to the best choices in each of these cases?

It was a long and defiant process that got us to the isolated, detached, and yet interdependent state in which we now find ourselves. We are being visited by the sins of our fathers to the 3rd and 4th generations, so to speak. We have "hated" God and His ways for a long time. IOW, we've come a long way from being nudists living in a garden. Such a grace, without much effort on our part might, by many, be seen more as magic.

It's not completely beyond our reach, though. You might be interested in Dr. John Sharffenberg. He was trending last year as he was turning 100. Needless to say, he's old-fashioned and not everyone's cup of tea, but a lot of folks (admittedly myself included) find him fascinating.

Why is the best choice automatically not grace?

What makes you think it isn't? We are fearfully and wonderfully made with systems that combat the diseases we bring on ourselves.

Is it a lighter burden to be cursed with diseases by choices made or to be blessed with health by choices made?

Sounds just a bit like a false dilemma or all-or-nothing.

Do you think Jesus meant that if we took His yoke upon us we'd be instantly wise and physically healthy? (rhetorical question) Surely not, so there must be a learning curve and some remaining physical suffering. All will be healed completely but, for many (or all, in a way), not until the Parousia.

Thought and iscussion benefit greatly from nuance. (<--- I think this is extremely important )

The odd thing is it seems you can be right with God spiritually while being cursed/punished by God physically.

Thank God, eh?

Blessings and cursings; the fellowship of His sufferings; seated with Him in Heavenly places—a heady tonic; quite a literal "brain washing," actually. We're all cultists. Brain transplanters, too (Philippians 2:5).

 

[GracePeace]

Man, chatting with you is really rewarding—you're so remarkably thoughtful.

Are you really sure it's good to say such high praises to sinful people? lol

It was a long and defiant process that got us to the isolated, detached, and yet interdependent state in which we now find ourselves. We are being visited by the sins of our fathers to the 3rd and 4th generations, so to speak. We have "hated" God and His ways for a long time. IOW, we've come a long way from being nudists living in a garden. Such a grace, without much effort on our part might, by many, be seen more as magic.

Well, there are many people who've maintained a raw vegan diet for decades and who have reaped the rewards--a dude in his 50s who looks like he's in his 20s for instance.
Shane Sterling

It's not completely beyond our reach, though. You might be interested in Dr. John Sharffenberg. He was trending last year as he was turning 100. Needless to say, he's old-fashioned and not everyone's cup of tea, but a lot of folks (admittedly myself included) find him fascinating.

Yes, I'm acquainted (though I don't think he is raw vegan).

What makes you think it isn't? We are fearfully and wonderfully made with systems that combat the diseases we bring on ourselves.

Well, there seems to be a discrepancy between what is best/most rewarding, and what man is "given" the ability to do by heaven / grace--eg, in Mt 19, Jesus says while it is true that celibacy is the best option for man, not all men have the gift to walk in that truth in order to reap the rewards (ie, this is not a matter of sin and righteousness, but of reward--but this just raises another question, since "to him who knows to do good and does not do it for him it is a sin", so to "miss the mark" would vary from person to person).
When Paul treats this issue, he says, "I wish all were as I am [celibate], but each man has his own gift", so, even though it is true that the best way is one thing, each man has his own grace.

Sounds just a bit like a false dilemma or all-or-nothing.

Do you think Jesus meant that if we took His yoke upon us we'd be instantly wise and physically healthy? (rhetorical question) Surely not, so there must be a learning curve and some remaining physical suffering. All will be healed completely but, for many (or all, in a way), not until the Parousia.
Thought and iscussion benefit greatly from nuance. (<--- I think this is extremely important )

Thank God, eh?

Blessings and cursings; the fellowship of His sufferings; seated with Him in Heavenly places—a heady tonic; quite a literal "brain washing," actually. We're all cultists. Brain transplanters, too (Philippians 2:5).

I'm saying it is still a curse, an unwanted and sad thing that we try to reverse (using anti-aging creams, surgeries, etc) that befalls us when we don't eat right... and, yet, how could we be simultaneously received by God's Right hand, and rejected by His Left hand? On one hand, He's saying, "I didn't give you the grace to eat correctly, but I accept you, so enjoy eating the wrong way" but, with His Left hand, He's furiously destroying the one He loves by bringing these diseases on them (which diseases it will be up to Him whether He will decide to heal or not) because He gave them the "gift" to enjoy things they ought not to have enjoyed.
In life, He "teaches" them (by punishing them--"receiving in themselves the penalty due their error") not to eat a certain way, but to eat another way, but, in their heart, He teaches them to eat things that they ought not to eat, because He doesn't give them the grace to eat properly, but encourages them to eat wrongly, and then punishes them nevertheless.

I describe the matter this way because Deuteronomy 28, in the blessings and curses, says, "So it will happen that because you did not serve Me with joy [but you did not follow My commands] that I will bring all these curses upon you" : but a lot of these curses are not results of supernatural acts, but biological realities (they would not just happen to a Jew if he did those things, but to anyone if they did those things), which means that what is seen in nature (ie, diseases that result from bad choices) God counts as His actions ("I will bring on you").
For instance, the Law forbids consuming blood and sexual acts with animals--if you eat and drink the blood of animals and have sex with them, is it a supernatural act that you are cursed with diseases, or isn't that just a biological reality? Will it happen only to a Jew who broke Covenant, or won't it also happen to a Gentile who does those acts?
Therefore, if the curse is not supernatural, it is by what we call "nature", and is not a miracle God is performing to curse them.
Therefore, when God describes these things as Him bringing the curses of diseases on you for doing such things, He is saying "I am nature", or "what you see as 'nature', something that is a reality that exists on its own, as if it is not Me, that is actually Me executing judgments, holding the fabric of all reality together by My deciding, because I rule over everything."

Again, though, this leads back to the problem that while God is raining condemnation down on you through nature, physically cursing you for eating wrong (not as was prescribed in Gen 1), He is also saying "go ahead and enjoy" spiritually.
And He has done this to His saints for thousands of years.

Yet, as Christ says, there is a distinction to be made between what is a matter of what is "best" (eg, celibacy), and what is a matter of what is sin or righteousness (eg, adultery)--one is optional, one is mandatory.
So, even though Christ said we would do greater works than He did (eg, perhaps dietarily), this could not mean He was "sinning" by subjecting Himself to the Law (which contains concessions, and is not God's perfect will--no less than Christ described the Law's command to "keep your vows" as "of the evil one"), whereby He ate meat at least annually (at the Passover) and thereby accelerating His aging.

So, you could not say that it is a matter of sin and righteousness to eat correctly, but moreso one of the better options a person could take.
This is confusing, though, because you would think a parent would spank their children to teach them a lesson... and He has been "spanking" us for not eating according to Genesis 1 (the same Scriptures Jesus uses as the standard for marriage He calls people back to) for thousands of years already.

 

[GracePeace]

@BarneyFife I have edited my comment, so please reread it if you are already in the middle of answering it.

 

[marks]

Why couldn't it be a grace to conform to the best choices in each of these cases?
Why is the best choice automatically not grace?
Is it a lighter burden to be cursed with diseases by choices made or to be blessed with health by choices made?

The odd thing is it seems you can be right with God spiritually while being cursed/punished by God physically.

I've found over the years that God has moved me to modify my diet in a great many ways. And He's counselled me to not be concerned over the higher cost of eating higher quality foods. I've learned that God cares for my entire being.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

I've found over the years that God has moved me to modify my diet in a great many ways. And He's counselled me to not be concerned over the higher cost of eating higher quality foods. I've learned that God cares for my entire being.

Much love!

I've been convinced I should eat raw vegan, and have done it, but have struggled. It seems like it took my eyes off of Christ. Yes, it is good... if only there were a way to do it without taking my eyes off of Christ and ending up in misery bc of that.