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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Lol!
Dear readers,
This is merely, Behold and EG's 'twisted' interprtation, things taken out of context from Paul's writings, as 'blind guides' of the Pauline sect.
Apparently Paul did not touch about water baptism nor had to, which is about the outward baptism in faith, for the remission of sins. And water baptism already started and on going from John the Baptist to Jesus and His disciples. Later through the turned Apostles, till to the very church, ever since Paul a persecuter, documented to the book of Acts.
John 13:
10. Jesus said to him, "He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all."
Jesus is no longer referring to ceremonial washing according to the Law to His born again disciples. But rather since water baptism already done once and they are washed all over outwardly and inwardly, next, merely they need to often wash their feet.
Now later upon conversation, Paul was minstering to the church added doctrine to the Gospel given to him. This is based on inward circumcision in faith as well pertaining to salvation, and both go hand in hand together.
Paul himself was not water baptized by an Apostle, but rather by a disciple under the Apostles. Philip and Peter conducted outward water baptism on both Gentiles, besides the Jews in the very book of Acts.
Shalom
satanic verse, apparently you're of your father the devil, and his will ye shall do............
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Imo, no one is “ Deliberately “ leading anyone down the wrong path of what Acts 2:38 means.
Only God knows the truth, why all this finger pointing , that is the old mindset, I should know I did the same,
Please anyone pick me up on it, if I start finger pointing again.....
The renewing of our minds is what is needed, to think as Jesus thought.
At the moment I just see accusations of each other’s beliefs being thrown around right left and centre, which the enemy loves, can’t you see him in the mix?
Only God knows the truth, why all this finger pointing , that is the old mindset, I should know I did the same,
Please anyone pick me up on it, if I start finger pointing again.....
The renewing of our minds is what is needed, to think as Jesus thought.
At the moment I just see accusations of each other’s beliefs being thrown around right left and centre, which the enemy loves, can’t you see him in the mix?
John 3:
5. Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD."
That's why Jesus also said that, many are called but only a few chosen. When the author and finisher of our faith already said, and avoiding water baptism and deciding born of the Spirit and by Paul's gospel alone, one has entered??
Apparently called, since babes in Christ sticking to only milk, have gone ahead from the context of the NT foundation, without meat for growth. Therefore 'shortsighted', have become blind guides to the blind, and as a result only find themselves in a ditch one day.
What a waste of GOD's every word given to 'dogs' and 'swine', where one turns to rip you off, while the other tramples on it.
5. Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD."
That's why Jesus also said that, many are called but only a few chosen. When the author and finisher of our faith already said, and avoiding water baptism and deciding born of the Spirit and by Paul's gospel alone, one has entered??
Apparently called, since babes in Christ sticking to only milk, have gone ahead from the context of the NT foundation, without meat for growth. Therefore 'shortsighted', have become blind guides to the blind, and as a result only find themselves in a ditch one day.
What a waste of GOD's every word given to 'dogs' and 'swine', where one turns to rip you off, while the other tramples on it.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Some interpret Born of Water = amniotic fluid...which we are Born Of water.
Born of the Spirit = The Living Witness, who makes our spirit Born Again by His Living Holy Spirit.
That’s my interpretation...others interpretations are different to mine.
Water has no supernatural powers, only The Living Holy Spirit has the power to bring our spirit from death into God’s Life!
We are Born Again by the Living Spirit, The Holy Spirit.....
Born of the Spirit = The Living Witness, who makes our spirit Born Again by His Living Holy Spirit.
That’s my interpretation...others interpretations are different to mine.
Water has no supernatural powers, only The Living Holy Spirit has the power to bring our spirit from death into God’s Life!
We are Born Again by the Living Spirit, The Holy Spirit.....
I see that the focus is on Acts 2:38. However, proper hermeneutics requires that scripture is interpreted through the rest of scripture. What about Titus and 1 Peter? The collection of evidence is expected to provide the proper interpretation.
Tt 3:3–7 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Pe 3:18–21 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Perhaps we should see why the disciples were instructed to baptize people?
Mt 28:19–20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
Although this verse is the only one in our English bibles that says to baptize in three names, we see through the rest of the N.T. that baptisms were done in only Yeshua's name. (That is a different topic if someone questions this later.)
If baptism in water is not needed, because the baptism has already happened by Yahweh's spirit, why the instruction?
Man can dunk someone in water, but the effect of it is done by God. Note that the quote from Matthew ends with "observe all that I have commanded you." It may open another can of worms, but obedience to the commands of Yeshua is a "work." It is not an Old Covenant one, however. We ignore those commands at our peril.
So, those who think baptism alone saves you are missing the rest of the instruction. It is bad theology to claim that one is already saved without obedience. It is bad hermeneutics to ignore the rest of scripture or pass it off as a writer's ignorance of truth while claiming scripture is "God breathed."
Getting a spinal shiver when you did "the sinner's prayer" does not replace scripture.
Tt 3:3–7 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Pe 3:18–21 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Perhaps we should see why the disciples were instructed to baptize people?
Mt 28:19–20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
Although this verse is the only one in our English bibles that says to baptize in three names, we see through the rest of the N.T. that baptisms were done in only Yeshua's name. (That is a different topic if someone questions this later.)
If baptism in water is not needed, because the baptism has already happened by Yahweh's spirit, why the instruction?
Man can dunk someone in water, but the effect of it is done by God. Note that the quote from Matthew ends with "observe all that I have commanded you." It may open another can of worms, but obedience to the commands of Yeshua is a "work." It is not an Old Covenant one, however. We ignore those commands at our peril.
So, those who think baptism alone saves you are missing the rest of the instruction. It is bad theology to claim that one is already saved without obedience. It is bad hermeneutics to ignore the rest of scripture or pass it off as a writer's ignorance of truth while claiming scripture is "God breathed."
Getting a spinal shiver when you did "the sinner's prayer" does not replace scripture.
Not different, for it is written;
Colossians 3:
17. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of Lord Jesus, giving thanks to GOD and the FATHER by Him.
So, this is how water baptism is done, also according to the commission given by Jesus in Matthew 28:19;
"In the name of Lord Jesus, i baptize you in the name of the FATHER, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
The water filled to the brim of the vessel in the wedding in Canaan also had no supernatural powers. Is only when it was conscious meeting and hearing it's Master the Word became Jesus, it blushed turning to wine.
If you take the water as similar to carnal people do, shortsightedly even in faith as a Christian, you limit it's ability. But when one does it according to the 'sound doctrine knowledge of the Word and in faith. Also by the Kingdom of GOD behind them, miracles happen, even water can turn to an agent for the remission of sins.
On the other hand, since faithless and divided in knowledge, and to many denomination. Moreover, babes in Christ masters instructing the newer babes added unto them, hence water will be just water to them, period
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If your going to heaven your saved
If your not going to heaven, you are lost, and in sin and need saved.
to seperate the two would be a dire mistake
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Thank you for voicing “ your” opinion on what you believe.
I don’t understand any of it.
We all have our own interpretation of Acts...therefore our opinions are just that “opinions “.
Therefore let’s not force what we believe onto others.
Opinions from everyone on this thread, is no more valid than the others, it’s also sad watching some argue over their opinions...it’s not really a discussion when that happens.
The Holy Spirit is a Living Spirit who witnesses Gods truth to our heart/ spirit..when he makes our spirit Born Again of imperishable seed..that is the Spiritual Birth a Living Spiritual Birth, my opinion/ testimony and belief ....the Bible is NOT God!
The Bible is Gods written word.
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You are promoting Galatianism. You need to read and study carefully Paul's letter to the Galatians.
Yes, once saved always saved is a lie. However, you do not lose salvation through sinning, nor by not doing enough work. We are saved by grace through faith. One can lose their salvation only by no longer believing in God, i.e., no longer having faith.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
dear readers.
here we have a feeble attempt to try to attack the character of people who believe differently. and he can not even get his facts straight.
EG has continually used John's writings and Jesus own words. to disprove water baptism is a part of salvation process..
So Fred. A bit of warning to you. Before you attack someone with a false accusation. get your facts straight!!
Here you go. this just proves my point. Your using John (great idea by the way) but if you would actually study the book of John, you would see Jesus made this comment in John 15:
John 15: 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you
As you can see, it is not at water baptism that they are clean, It was the word.
In fact. Paul makes this same statement in effect. agreeing with Jesus in context of the church
Eph 5: 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
See the ongoing theme, It is the word by which they were washed (their faith in that word)
Jesus speaks of this in John 6, Where he says
John 6: 63 - It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
So as you can see, Jesus and paul both agree,, the way one is made completely clean is the washing of water by the word. or the washing of the holy spirit (see Titus 3: 5)
Titus 3: 5 - 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
As you can see, it is the Holy Spirit who washes us, through the word he gives us, and I would say, through the spiritual baptism which is from CHrist.
lol. Ok water baptism.. there is no proof they were even baptized as of yet.. And this is not what Jesus was talking about..
lol.. Nothing here to look at..
God has spoken to you only through His written word. What you think is "the Living Spirit witnessing God's truth to your heart/spirit" is nothing more than your own, not God's, personal feelings. It is not a good source of truth.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Well that may be your opinion. But you are in error.
A false gospel must be brought down.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
excuse me my friend - the word baptism is not in the book of John. Nicodemus asked jesus, How can these thing be (How can I be born of water and spirit)
Jesus responded.
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus reply
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Its amazing, if baptism was required. how and why Jesus left that point out. I guess he forgot
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
People are told to assemble together. it is a command. we should do it
People are told to Give, we should do it
People are told to study to show themselves approved, it is a command
People are told to take the lords supper - It is a command
We are told to make disciples. And we are told to baptize them, It is a command
God baptizing us into the death, and person of Christ has no bearing on whether we should obey Gods commands or not. If he says get water baptized.l do it, and don;t question it. But what we should not do. is try to replace the baptism with God with a work of righteousness that he commanded us to do.
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