TIME FOR THIS POPE TO GO....

[Niblo]

Not to incur the wrath of @GodsGrace I think this is a powerful post and ditto on the Scripture references-chock full of dunamis and kratos.
Johann

Thank you; that's very kind of you.

Very best regards.

 

[Johann]

Thank you; that's very kind of you.

Very best regards.

Welcome to this Forum @Niblo.

 

[Niblo]

Welcome to this Forum @Niblo.

Thank you, Brother.

May the Beloved reward you for your kindness.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Fran,

Thank you for that.

Please can you provide (or reference) the following:

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports sex change operations for children.

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports the removal of the right to free speech.

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports the removal of religious moral values from society.

At the moment, Fran – without such evidence – I cannot help but think:

Very tricky of you Niblo.
You know that no documentation exists.

You divided your question to me in two parts:
One was to explain what I meant by extreme left.
And the other was to explain why I believe the Pope is joining in the post-modern movement.

I think you're getting the two mixed up IMO.
I NEVER said the Pope documented any belief in transgenderism or
that he is active in removing free speech.

This goes to what the extreme left is doing.

The Pope IS however, aiding in post-modernism where moral values are
relative. If the Pope can state, way back in about 2014, that homosexuality cannot be judged,
as the leader of a church, then the church is losing site of what it's SUPPOSED to teach....that homosexuality is wrong.
Or, at least, the practice of it.

The Pope is CHANGING what the CC teaches.
This is extremely wrong since Popes take an oath to NOT change church teachings when they're elected into office.
He is breaching this promise and on very serious issues.
Conservative Catholics re waiting for this Pope to be replaced...but, as I've stated, it might already be too late - or maybe not.
We can only wait and see.

Would you like the elder of the "denomination" you're attending and belong to at this time, honor and pay homage to the Pacha Mama of a South American country, which I can't remember right now....right in the back yard of your church? (which would be the Vatican in this case).

That your commitment to the notion that Pope Francis is a villain is making you desperate to see things that aren’t there.

That your obvious animosity to the Pope is clouding your judgment.

That you are eager to make him the cause (or supporter) of everything that is morally wrong with society.

All of this, simply because you have decided, in advance, that he is always going to be the bad guy, come what may.

You can believe this is you wish.
I'm very involved in the CC and have seen the changes since about 2014/2015,
as has every other Catholic that cares to see what is happening.

I can only assure you that I do NOT see things that aren't there...
But, of course, this does not have to be accepted by anyone.

I agree: Followers of the three Abrahamic Faiths should strive to make this world a better place.....This process, of course, depends on each of us accepting responsibility for our own actions (and sins) - and acting accordingly - rather than pointing the finger at others.

Does that include the Pope?
Should HE accept personal responsibility for what he says?
I think he does.
Unfortunately, he makes so many blunders that the Vatican is always having to cover up for him and state what he REALLY meant...but that is no matter since everything is in writing.


Read Chapter 8.
It gives remarrieds permission to receive communion.
This is UNHEARD of in the CC and many bishops and priests are not able to follow his directive.

https://www.vatican.va/content/dam/francesco/pdf/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20160319_amoris-laetitia_en.pdf

Blessing same-sex couples.....

In major doctrinal shift, Vatican officially OKs Catholic blessings for gay couples

A new Vatican document officially declares it possible for Catholic priests to bless same-sex unions and divorced and remarried couples. The pastoral shift may be among the most significant in the church's history.

www.ncronline.org

There's much more but this should suffice.
If not, there's plenty on the internet that could be researched.

‘Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.’ (Matthew 7:3-29).

No beam....
This Pope is changing the church and is siding with leftist policies that are changing our society.
The church is supposed to change the world....
not the other way around.

It is – and has been – my privilege to know (and to love) many people who strived to make this world a better place.

Allow me to introduce my paternal grandfather:

He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in one of the local coal-mines (this was unlawful at that time, but who cared?).

Using the town’s Miners’ Institute – these Institutes were centres of learning – he studied (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. He was a polymath.

In the 1920’s, a number of Italian families moved into the Rhondda (South Wales Valley) and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in my home town.

When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians.’ This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and three children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).

One day, my grandfather – returning from work – discovered a mob, hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather stood between the mob and their target, and told them to stop, and to go home. They did.

Many years later, the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the investiture ceremony. My grandfather considered this to be a great honour.

He was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel (in Tynewydd). The Elders employed the Minister.

When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!

My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’

When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not attend funerals in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.

My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of the Beloved. He led by example rather than by argument. My greatest regret is that I was too young – and, when old enough, too immature – to hold long conversations with him, and to fully appreciate the kind of man he was.

He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.

Blessings.

I read every word and it's a very beautiful story and one that each child should be able to experience.
Unfortunately, the youth of today have little use for the knowledge of their elder grandparents....actually even stating that the old know less than they do. And this I know for sure because I work with these youths.

The old days are gone....
the new days are here.
And they're not better.

 

[Johann]

No beam....
This Pope is changing the church and is siding with leftist policies that are changing our society.
The church is supposed to change the world....
not the other way around.

Question is-which Ekklesia?
I had 5 cups of strong coffee-which ekklesia is supposed to change the kosmos?

 

[JohnDB]

@GodsGrace said:
Those who malign the CC and are changing it in all the wrong ways can stay....
Those who attempt to keep the CC as it has been and not change its doctrine to satisfy the modern world are fired.

This is highly problematic....very problematic.
Where you might find your local parish is rebellious...some of us are very concerned about what we see going on with leadership these days.

 

[GodsGrace]

Question is-which Ekklesia?
I had 5 cups of strong coffee-which ekklesia is supposed to change the kosmos?

I meant Christianity of course.
But Christianity is practiced and learned about in churches, or maybe I should say denominations.

What do YOU think?
Should the church change society when it wanders?
(or at least give a warning).

or

Should the world change the church?
(with its ideas, mostly when they contradict biblical teachings).

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace said:
Those who malign the CC and are changing it in all the wrong ways can stay....
Those who attempt to keep the CC as it has been and not change its doctrine to satisfy the modern world are fired.

This is highly problematic....very problematic.
Where you might find your local parish is rebellious...some of us are very concerned about what we see going on with leadership these days.

John,,,,I didn't say the above.
Please correct your post...
or delete it.
Thanks.

 

[JohnDB]

John,,,,I didn't say the above.
Please correct your post...
or delete it.
Thanks.

I copied it as a selection out of your opening post (shortly before the videos) ....at least I thought it was one of yours on the first page.

Just checked and it is a quote of your opening post.

I'm sorry if it offends you. But it does summarize your complaint very well and is representative of what many are saying....not just you.

 

[Johann]

I meant Christianity of course.
But Christianity is practiced and learned about in churches, or maybe I should say denominations.

What do YOU think?
Should the church change society when it wanders?
(or at least give a warning).

or

Should the world change the church?
(with its ideas, mostly when they contradict biblical teachings).

Love this, I threw a punch and you dodged it neatly with a return "feather-punch"

The Church’s role has always been to serve as a light in the world, guiding and influencing society according to God’s Word, rather than being shaped by the changing values of the world.

The Church’s Call to Be a Light: Yes?

Jesus calls His followers to be “the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house” (Matthew 5:14-15). The Church is meant to shine the truth of God’s Word into a world that often wanders into darkness.
Similarly, Paul urges believers not to conform to this world but to be transformed by the renewal of their minds, discerning God’s will (Romans 12:2). This implies that the Church should influence the world, not the other way around.

The Danger of the World Shaping the Church: Correct?

When the world’s ideas contradict biblical teachings, the Church must be careful. The Apostle John warns, “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him” (1 John 2:15). The Church must resist the temptation to adopt worldly values that conflict with Scripture.
Paul also warns that in the last days, people will “not endure sound doctrine” but will “accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions” (2 Timothy 4:3). This suggests that the Church should guard against letting worldly ideas dilute the truth of the Gospel.
The Role of the Church in Society:

The Church has a prophetic role to warn and call society back to God’s ways. Throughout Scripture, prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel were sent to call God’s people and their leaders to repentance. In the New Testament, the Church is described as the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), entrusted with the message of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:19-20).

While the Church should engage with society and love those within it, its primary allegiance is to Christ and His teachings. When society wanders, the Church must stand firm in truth, offering a compassionate yet clear warning of the consequences of straying from God’s Word.
So @GodsGrace -- the Church should not allow the world to shape its beliefs or practices, especially when those ideas contradict Scripture. Instead, the Church is called to transform society by upholding and proclaiming the unchanging truth of God’s Word, even when it is counter-cultural. It’s not about isolating from the world but engaging it with the life-giving truth of the Gospel, with a heart to see lives changed and societies transformed.

Did I answer your question-yes, no?

Non devi rispondere.
J.

 

[GodsGrace]

I copied it as a selection out of your opening post (shortly before the videos) ....at least I thought it was one of yours on the first page.

Just checked and it is a quote of your opening post.

I'm sorry if it offends you. But it does summarize your complaint very well and is representative of what many are saying....not just you.

I don't think you could even delete it anymore.
It doesn't sound like anything I'd say.
It must be from the SOURCE I had posted to show the changes....

 

[GodsGrace]

Love this, I threw a punch and you dodged it neatly with a return "feather-punch"

The Church’s role has always been to serve as a light in the world, guiding and influencing society according to God’s Word, rather than being shaped by the changing values of the world.

The Church’s Call to Be a Light: Yes?

Jesus calls His followers to be “the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house” (Matthew 5:14-15). The Church is meant to shine the truth of God’s Word into a world that often wanders into darkness.
Similarly, Paul urges believers not to conform to this world but to be transformed by the renewal of their minds, discerning God’s will (Romans 12:2). This implies that the Church should influence the world, not the other way around.

The Danger of the World Shaping the Church: Correct?

When the world’s ideas contradict biblical teachings, the Church must be careful. The Apostle John warns, “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him” (1 John 2:15). The Church must resist the temptation to adopt worldly values that conflict with Scripture.
Paul also warns that in the last days, people will “not endure sound doctrine” but will “accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions” (2 Timothy 4:3). This suggests that the Church should guard against letting worldly ideas dilute the truth of the Gospel.
The Role of the Church in Society:

The Church has a prophetic role to warn and call society back to God’s ways. Throughout Scripture, prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel were sent to call God’s people and their leaders to repentance. In the New Testament, the Church is described as the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), entrusted with the message of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:19-20).

While the Church should engage with society and love those within it, its primary allegiance is to Christ and His teachings. When society wanders, the Church must stand firm in truth, offering a compassionate yet clear warning of the consequences of straying from God’s Word.
So @GodsGrace -- the Church should not allow the world to shape its beliefs or practices, especially when those ideas contradict Scripture. Instead, the Church is called to transform society by upholding and proclaiming the unchanging truth of God’s Word, even when it is counter-cultural. It’s not about isolating from the world but engaging it with the life-giving truth of the Gospel, with a heart to see lives changed and societies transformed.

Did I answer your question-yes, no?

Non devi rispondere.
J.

And the answer is correct.
As usual, we agree.
And why wouldn't I reply?
The above sounds like YOU....

 

[Johann]

And the answer is correct.
As usual, we agree.
And why wouldn't I reply?
The above sounds like YOU....

I'm glad we're on the same page. I'm a bit tired at the moment, trying to navigate through the threads in hopes of learning something or sharing something edifying—feels a bit like wandering through a maze with people of all different personalities.
Know what I mean?
Shalom.
J.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm glad we're on the same page. I'm a bit tired at the moment, trying to navigate through the threads in hopes of learning something or sharing something edifying—feels a bit like wandering through a maze with people of all different personalities.
Know what I mean?
Shalom.
J.

I don't know J....
you sound pretty knowledgeable to me.
Looking for something edifying?
How about this....
John 13:35 Jesus said
"By this will all men know that you are my disciples,
that you have love for one another."

 

[Johann]

I don't know J....
you sound pretty knowledgeable to me.
Looking for something edifying?
How about this....
John 13:35 Jesus said
"By this will all men know that you are my disciples,
that you have love for one another."

There's an old Japanese saying: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered." I have to admit, I don't love with the agapao love as much as I should, even though it's an imperative from our Heavenly Father, for God is love.
Maybe you are aware of this-
In Greek, there are four different words that describe various types of love:

Agapē (ἀγάπη): This is the highest form of love, often described as selfless, unconditional love. It's the kind of love God has for us and that we are called to have for others. Agapē is the love mentioned in John 3:16, where God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son.

Philia (φιλία): This refers to brotherly love or friendship. It’s the kind of love you feel for close friends, a deep bond of mutual respect and affection. The city of Philadelphia is named after this concept, meaning "the city of brotherly love."

Storgē (στοργή): This is the love that exists within families, the natural affection between parents and children, or between siblings. It's often a protective, nurturing love that is deeply rooted in familiarity and bond.

Eros (ἔρως): This is romantic love, the passionate desire often associated with physical attraction. While eros can be powerful and intense, it is also meant to be guided by commitment and respect within the context of marriage.
With All Our Heart, We Love

With all our heart, we turn to You,
In every breath, Your love shines through,
No greater love could ever be,
Than Yours, O Lord, so pure, so free.

With all our soul, we seek Your face,
In quiet prayer, in every place,
Your presence fills our deepest need,
In word and deed, Your love we heed.

With all our mind, we think of You,
In every thought, Your truth is true,
Your wisdom guides our every choice,
In silence, Lord, we hear Your voice.

With all our strength, we serve Your name,
In all we do, we spread Your flame,
For loving You, our joy complete,
We lay our lives at Your feet.

So teach us, Lord, to love You more,
With love that’s deep and ever sure,
Until the day we see Your face,
And rest forever in Your grace.

Ci vediamo dopo, sorella.
J.

 

[JohnDB]

I don't think you could even delete it anymore.
It doesn't sound like anything I'd say.
It must be from the SOURCE I had posted to show the changes....

Well I thought that it was a bit more "bold" and aggressive than your normal manner of speaking and I attributed it to your being upset....but it was after the bold type so I thought that it was you who typed it.

My apologies....and I couldn't fix it....time had expired.

But I did happen to agree with what was quoted and I definitely agree with the sentiment. I assumed that you, rightfully so, are upset with the Pope and the liberals who have taken over the Vatican.

I'm not sure if you remember the fights between the Jesuits and Franciscans of long ago...
This fight is much more serious than that.

 

[Johann]

Well I thought that it was a bit more "bold" and aggressive than your normal manner of speaking and I attributed it to your being upset....but it was after the bold type so I thought that it was you who typed it.

My apologies....and I couldn't fix it....time had expired.

But I did happen to agree with what was quoted and I definitely agree with the sentiment. I assumed that you, rightfully so, are upset with the Pope and the liberals who have taken over the Vatican.

I'm not sure if you remember the fights between the Jesuits and Franciscans of long ago...
This fight is much more serious than that.

Lol! The Italian mare sure is feisty!
Stai attento!
J.

 

[GodsGrace]

There's an old Japanese saying: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered." I have to admit, I don't love with the agapao love as much as I should, even though it's an imperative from our Heavenly Father, for God is love.
Maybe you are aware of this-
In Greek, there are four different words that describe various types of love:

Agapē (ἀγάπη): This is the highest form of love, often described as selfless, unconditional love. It's the kind of love God has for us and that we are called to have for others. Agapē is the love mentioned in John 3:16, where God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son.

Philia (φιλία): This refers to brotherly love or friendship. It’s the kind of love you feel for close friends, a deep bond of mutual respect and affection. The city of Philadelphia is named after this concept, meaning "the city of brotherly love."

Storgē (στοργή): This is the love that exists within families, the natural affection between parents and children, or between siblings. It's often a protective, nurturing love that is deeply rooted in familiarity and bond.

Eros (ἔρως): This is romantic love, the passionate desire often associated with physical attraction. While eros can be powerful and intense, it is also meant to be guided by commitment and respect within the context of marriage.
With All Our Heart, We Love

With all our heart, we turn to You,
In every breath, Your love shines through,
No greater love could ever be,
Than Yours, O Lord, so pure, so free.

With all our soul, we seek Your face,
In quiet prayer, in every place,
Your presence fills our deepest need,
In word and deed, Your love we heed.

With all our mind, we think of You,
In every thought, Your truth is true,
Your wisdom guides our every choice,
In silence, Lord, we hear Your voice.

With all our strength, we serve Your name,
In all we do, we spread Your flame,
For loving You, our joy complete,
We lay our lives at Your feet.

So teach us, Lord, to love You more,
With love that’s deep and ever sure,
Until the day we see Your face,
And rest forever in Your grace.

Ci vediamo dopo, sorella.
J.

We all struggle with agape love.
I think of it as the same way I think of the 4th commandment...
honor your father and your mother.

Maybe we don't LIKE our father or our mother...
but we should honor them anyway...
honor...to give respect...to care for....

Agape love is the same....
We don't have to FEEL emotional love for the other person...
but just realize they're a creature of God...even if we don't like them
for some reason and even if they're not saved and are of the world.
All men are created and thus creatures of God.

Looks like you were looking for edification, instead I got some!
Thanks for the lovely song. I think it's a song.

A presto.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well I thought that it was a bit more "bold" and aggressive than your normal manner of speaking and I attributed it to your being upset....but it was after the bold type so I thought that it was you who typed it.

My apologies....and I couldn't fix it....time had expired.

But I did happen to agree with what was quoted and I definitely agree with the sentiment. I assumed that you, rightfully so, are upset with the Pope and the liberals who have taken over the Vatican.

I'm not sure if you remember the fights between the Jesuits and Franciscans of long ago...
This fight is much more serious than that.

You're right. About me being upset. To see such a strong church (with all its faults) just fold like this.
And I'm insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
It's the Bishops and priests that are having a difficult time.
I know a couple pretty personally and it's interesting to see the reaction.
One loves this Pope - his openness, acceptance, bringing the church into the 21st century.
The other one (my favorite priest) hates what is going on. I don't see him too much anymore because he got
transferred to a different town between Lucca and Pisa, but I just KNOW what's going on in his head.

Honestly John,
That river is coming down and I don't think it could be stopped.
What will be will be I guess.
But I could still complain!
I'm happy to be living in a small place that seems to be far from everything.
(but I still know what's going on).

 

[Johann]

We all struggle with agape love.
I think of it as the same way I think of the 4th commandment...
honor your father and your mother.

Maybe we don't LIKE our father or our mother...
but we should honor them anyway...
honor...to give respect...to care for....

Agape love is the same....
We don't have to FEEL emotional love for the other person...
but just realize they're a creature of God...even if we don't like them
for some reason and even if they're not saved and are of the world.
All men are created and thus creatures of God.

Looks like you were looking for edification, instead I got some!
Thanks for the lovely song. I think it's a song.

A presto.

A poem and glad to hear you are edified-I believe love is not a feeling but an act of the will--easier said than done though.

All the way from Rocky Mountains!

Ci vediamo presto.
J.