TIME FOR THIS POPE TO GO....

[GodsGrace]

Pope Francis has been making the news since 2014 when he decided that it would be OK for remarried couples to receive communion.

Other changes he has made:
1 It is now immoral to inflict the death penalty on anyone. (I agree. But the Catholic Church has no....until now).

2. The Council method used by the magisterium, and the magesterium itself, has been changed to the synodal method.
A very serious change.....and this Pope has added over 100 Cardinals so that a liberal Pope will have a better chance of being chosen next time around.

3. He has stated that a homosexual couple could be blessed. This would not only create a third blessing (there are currently only 2). Following are 2 paragraphs regarding same. Note that it speaks of COUPLES:

31Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.

32. Indeed, the grace of God works in the lives of those who do not claim to be righteous but who acknowledge themselves humbly as sinners, like everyone else. This grace can orient everything according to the mysterious and unpredictable designs of God. Therefore, with its untiring wisdom and motherly care, the Church welcomes all who approach God with humble hearts, accompanying them with those spiritual aids that enable everyone to understand and realize God’s will fully in their existence.

source: Dichiarazione “Fiducia supplicans” sul senso pastorale delle benedizioni del Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede
Part III Paragraphs 31-32


4. Divorce is not permitted in the CC except under strict rules.
Unless a marriage has been annulled, it is not licit for either party to remarry...
If they are, they cannot receive communion - defacto ex-communication.
Pope Francis has reversed this practice....allowing remarried couple to receive communion.

Many times he must be corrected or protected...a sad state of affairs for someone who should KNOW what he is stating and should avoid confusion - something this Pope does not understand. Sadly.

And with what authority does he do all of the above?
Some even consider that he is not a valid Pope.
Popes take an oath that they will not change established church doctrine....
He has broken this oath - to God.

He acts as would a dictator.
He ex-communicated - fired - two prominent Bishops in just the past year....
Bishop Joseph Strickland of Texas and Archbishop Vegano' just this past week.

Those who malign the CC and are changing it in all the wrong ways can stay....
Those who attempt to keep the CC as it has been and not change its doctrine to satisfy the modern world are fired.
A sad state of affairs.

Following are some videos for those Catholics who believe he's doing a good job and should remain.
The confusion he is causing for priests and bishops is enough reason why Francis should not be in the position of Pope of the CC.
No good leader requires constant adjustment to his comments---as he does.

 

[APAK]

Pope Francis has been making the news since 2014 when he decided that it would be OK for remarried couples to receive communion.

Other changes he has made:
1 It is now immoral to inflict the death penalty on anyone. (I agree. But the Catholic Church has no....until now).

2. The Council method used by the magisterium, and the magesterium itself, has been changed to the synodal method.
A very serious change.....and this Pope has added over 100 Cardinals so that a liberal Pope will have a better chance of being chosen next time around.

3. He has stated that a homosexual couple could be blessed. This would not only create a third blessing (there are currently only 2). Following are 2 paragraphs regarding same. Note that it speaks of COUPLES:

31Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.

32. Indeed, the grace of God works in the lives of those who do not claim to be righteous but who acknowledge themselves humbly as sinners, like everyone else. This grace can orient everything according to the mysterious and unpredictable designs of God. Therefore, with its untiring wisdom and motherly care, the Church welcomes all who approach God with humble hearts, accompanying them with those spiritual aids that enable everyone to understand and realize God’s will fully in their existence.

source: Dichiarazione “Fiducia supplicans” sul senso pastorale delle benedizioni del Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede
Part III Paragraphs 31-32


4. Divorce is not permitted in the CC except under strict rules.
Unless a marriage has been annulled, it is not licit for either party to remarry...
If they are, they cannot receive communion - defacto ex-communication.
Pope Francis has reversed this practice....allowing remarried couple to receive communion.

Many times he must be corrected or protected...a sad state of affairs for someone who should KNOW what he is stating and should avoid confusion - something this Pope does not understand. Sadly.

And with what authority does he do all of the above?
Some even consider that he is not a valid Pope.
Popes take an oath that they will not change established church doctrine....
He has broken this oath - to God.

He acts as would a dictator.
He ex-communicated - fired - two prominent Bishops in just the past year....
Bishop Joseph Strickland of Texas and Archbishop Vegano' just this past week.

Those who malign the CC and are changing it in all the wrong ways can stay....
Those who attempt to keep the CC as it has been and not change its doctrine to satisfy the modern world are fired.
A sad state of affairs.

Following are some videos for those Catholics who believe he's doing a good job and should remain.
The confusion he is causing for priests and bishops is enough reason why Francis should not be in the position of Pope of the CC.
No good leader requires constant adjustment to his comments---as he does.

I like Vigano...

 

[GodsGrace]

I like Vigano...

So does every Catholic.
Those that want to destroy the CC and change it to be more like the world hate those such as Vegano'.

In October there'll be another synod to discuss the synod again.
What nonsense and what a waste of time.

He manages the Vatican like a real dictator.

A high end accountant was hired to protect the finances of the Vatican....
Guess he got too close to the truth.
He was fired too.

 

[Niblo]

Pope Francis has been making the news since 2014 when he decided that it would be OK for remarried couples to receive communion.

Other changes he has made:
1 It is now immoral to inflict the death penalty on anyone. (I agree. But the Catholic Church has no....until now).

2. The Council method used by the magisterium, and the magesterium itself, has been changed to the synodal method.
A very serious change.....and this Pope has added over 100 Cardinals so that a liberal Pope will have a better chance of being chosen next time around.

3. He has stated that a homosexual couple could be blessed. This would not only create a third blessing (there are currently only 2). Following are 2 paragraphs regarding same. Note that it speaks of COUPLES:

31Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.

32. Indeed, the grace of God works in the lives of those who do not claim to be righteous but who acknowledge themselves humbly as sinners, like everyone else. This grace can orient everything according to the mysterious and unpredictable designs of God. Therefore, with its untiring wisdom and motherly care, the Church welcomes all who approach God with humble hearts, accompanying them with those spiritual aids that enable everyone to understand and realize God’s will fully in their existence.

source: Dichiarazione “Fiducia supplicans” sul senso pastorale delle benedizioni del Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede
Part III Paragraphs 31-32


4. Divorce is not permitted in the CC except under strict rules.
Unless a marriage has been annulled, it is not licit for either party to remarry...
If they are, they cannot receive communion - defacto ex-communication.
Pope Francis has reversed this practice....allowing remarried couple to receive communion.

Many times he must be corrected or protected...a sad state of affairs for someone who should KNOW what he is stating and should avoid confusion - something this Pope does not understand. Sadly.

And with what authority does he do all of the above?
Some even consider that he is not a valid Pope.
Popes take an oath that they will not change established church doctrine....
He has broken this oath - to God.

He acts as would a dictator.
He ex-communicated - fired - two prominent Bishops in just the past year....
Bishop Joseph Strickland of Texas and Archbishop Vegano' just this past week.

Those who malign the CC and are changing it in all the wrong ways can stay....
Those who attempt to keep the CC as it has been and not change its doctrine to satisfy the modern world are fired.
A sad state of affairs.

Following are some videos for those Catholics who believe he's doing a good job and should remain.
The confusion he is causing for priests and bishops is enough reason why Francis should not be in the position of Pope of the CC.
No good leader requires constant adjustment to his comments---as he does.

Hi Fran. How's tricks?

Blessings.

 

[RedFan]

he decided that it would be OK for remarried couples to receive communion

News to me! I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that Ratzinger's 1994 "If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Holy Communion as long as this situation persists." is still the rule. Where did Francis change this?

 

[Niblo]

News to me! I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that Ratzinger's 1994 "If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Holy Communion as long as this situation persists." is still the rule. Where did Francis change this?

The kerfuffle over Pope Francis’ Apostolic Exhortation ‘Amoris Laetitia’ (published October 2015) has arisen from a particular interpretation of footnote 351; and from Clause 300.

The footnote is found in Chapter Eight.

Clause 305 of that Chapter states:

‘Because of forms of conditioning and mitigating factors, it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God’s grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end.’

The footnote states (my emphases):

‘In certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments. Hence, “I want to remind priests that the confessional must not be a torture chamber, but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (24 November 2013)….I would also point out that the Eucharist “is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak”’

Historically, couples who have been divorced, but who then remarry – without their first marriage having been declared void under the ‘annulment’ process – have been required to live as ‘brother and sister’; in short, to refrain from sexual relations.

The orthodox reading of footnote 351 is that couples who truly live as ‘brother and sister’ may receive holy Communion, since they are not engaged in adultery.

The heterodox reading of footnote 351 is that couples, whose first marriage has not been declared void, and who fail to abstain from sexual intercourse (in other words, who commit adultery) may also receive holy Communion.

It is claimed that this reading is buttressed by what is known as the ‘internal forum solution’.

This is where couples who are unable, or unwilling, to apply for a declaration of nullity of a previous marriage – or where there is not enough external proof to satisfy a tribunal – can, in the privacy of their own conscience, and in consultation with a priest, consider that marriage invalid.

The ‘internal forum solution’ was rejected by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1994:

‘The mistaken conviction of a divorced and remarried person that he may receive Holy Communion normally presupposes that personal conscience is considered in the final analysis to be able, on the basis of one’s own convictions, to come to a decision about the existence or absence of a previous marriage and the value of the new union. However, such a position is inadmissible. Marriage, in fact, because it is both the image of the spousal relationship between Christ and his Church as well as the fundamental core and an important factor in the life of civil society, is essentially a public reality. (‘Reception of Holy Communion by the Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful’)

Pope Francis refers to the ‘internal forum’ in ‘Amoris Laetitia’; my emphasis:

‘Conversation with the priest, in the internal forum, contributes to the formation of a correct judgment on what hinders the possibility of a fuller participation in the life of the Church and on what steps can foster it and make it grow.’ (Clause 300).

Was Pope Francis revoking the 1994 rejection? The bishops of Malta (and GodsGrace) seem to think he was.

In their ‘Criteria for the Application of Chapter VIII of Amoris Laetitia’ – published in January 2017 – Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta and Bishop Mario Grech of Gozo declare that:

‘If as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with ‘humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it’ (AL 300), a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist (Clause 10; my emphases).

Edward Peters – Professor of Canon Law at the Sacred Heart Major Seminary of the Archdiocese of Detroit – writes; my emphases:

‘In my view the Maltese Bishops have effectively invited the Catholics entrusted to them (lay faithful and clergy alike) to commit a number of objectively gravely evil acts. That their document was moreover, published in L’Osservatore Romano, exacerbates matters for it deprives Vatican representatives of the ‘plausible deniability’ that they could have claimed (and might soon enough wish they could claim), as it becomes known that the Maltese bishops went beyond what even Amoris ……., if interpreted narrowly, seemed to permit.

‘The Maltese bishops have fallen completely for the canonically and ecclesiologically false view (…….) that an individual’s assessment of his or her own readiness to receive holy Communion (see canon 916) controls the minister’s decision to administer the sacrament (see canon 915).

‘In Malta now, anyone who approaches for the sacraments should be recognized as being “at peace with God”. Objective evidence to the contrary is simply no longer relevant. Canon 916 is thus eviscerated; Canon 915 is effectively repudiated.’

Father Gerald E. Murray (Doctor of Canon Law) writes; my emphasis:

‘Thus Maltese Catholics who are living in adulterous second marriages are now being told by their bishops that they can engage in gravely sinful behavior that is publicly known and not be denied Holy Communion when they “acknowledge and believe” that they are “at peace with God.’ (Taken from the booklet: ‘Is Adultery No Longer a Sin? Notes on the Maltese Bishops’ Criteria for the Application of Chapter VIII of Amoris Laetitia’.)

Continued:

 

[Niblo]

Pope Francis has made it abundantly clear that ‘Amoris Laetitia’ is not giving any sort of approval to adultery.

He declares; my emphasis:

‘It is a matter of reaching out to everyone, of needing to help each person find his or her proper way of participating in the ecclesial community and thus to experience being touched by an “unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous” mercy. No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone, in whatever situation they find themselves. Naturally, if someone flaunts an objective sin as if it were part of the Christian ideal, or wants to impose something other than what the Church teaches, he or she can in no way presume to teach or preach to others; this is a case of something which separates from the community (cf. Mt 18:17). Such a person needs to listen once more to the Gospel message and its call to conversion.’ (Clause 297).

Note, Pope Francis invokes the language of excommunication for anyone who ‘flaunts an objective sin as if it were part of the Christian ideal’. The objective sin in this context is, of course, adultery. Could he be more forceful?

And again; my emphases:

‘In order to avoid all misunderstanding, I would point out that in no way must the Church desist from proposing the full ideal of marriage, God’s plan in all its grandeur: “Young people who are baptized should be encouraged to understand that the sacrament of marriage can enrich their prospects of love and that they can be sustained by the grace of Christ in the sacrament and by the possibility of participating fully in the life of the Church”. A lukewarm attitude, any kind of relativism, or an undue reticence in proposing that ideal, would be a lack of fidelity to the Gospel and also of love on the part of the Church for young people themselves. To show understanding in the face of exceptional situations never implies dimming the light of the fuller ideal, or proposing less than what Jesus offers to the human being. Today, more important than the pastoral care of failures is the pastoral effort to strengthen marriages and thus to prevent their breakdown.’ (Clause 307; my emphases).

Permit me to remind you what the Church says about marriage; my emphases throughout:

‘The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament. (Canon 1055).

‘From a valid marriage arises a bond between the spouses which by its very nature is perpetual and exclusive; furthermore, in a Christian marriage the spouses are strengthened and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and the dignity of their state by a special sacrament.’ (Canon 1134).

‘Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. This bond, which results from the free human act of the spouses and their consummation of the marriage, is a reality, henceforth irrevocable, and gives rise to a covenant guaranteed by God's fidelity. the Church does not have the power to contravene this disposition of divine wisdom.’ (Canon 1141). All three examples are taken from the ‘Code of Canon Law’.

Pope Francis makes it abundantly clear that:

‘Neither the synod nor this exhortation could be expected to provide a new set of general rules, canonical in nature and applicable to all cases.’ (Clause 300; my emphasis).

 

[Niblo]

Concerning the notion that Pope Francis has changed the Church's teaching on capital punishment:

In his Encyclical ‘Evangelium Vitae’, Pope Saint John Paul II writes (my emphases):

‘As time passed, the Church's Tradition has always consistently taught the absolute and unchanging value of the commandment "You shall not kill". It is a known fact that in the first centuries, murder was put among the three most serious sins – along with apostasy and adultery – and required a particularly heavy and lengthy public penance before the repentant murderer could be granted forgiveness and readmission to the ecclesial community.’

There is nothing here to suggest that the Church has always been in favour of the death penalty. As you can see, the Church has ‘consistently taught’ that murder requires a considerable degree of public penance on behalf of the repentant murderer, before forgiveness, and readmission to society, could be given.

He goes on (my emphases):

‘Public authority must redress the violation of personal and social rights by imposing on the offender an adequate punishment for the crime, as a condition for the offender to regain the exercise of his or her freedom. In this way authority also fulfils the purpose of defending public order and ensuring people's safety, while at the same time offering the offender an incentive and help to change his or her behaviour and be rehabilitated.

‘It is clear that, for these purposes to be achieved, the nature and extent of the punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon, and ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society.

‘Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.

‘In any event, the principle set forth in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church remains valid: "If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority must limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person". (‘Evangelium Vitae; 54-56.’)

The Church’s commitment to the abolition of the death penalty was affirmed by subsequent Pontiffs.

Pope Benedict XVI writes; my emphasis:

‘Prisoners are human persons who, despite their crime, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. They need our care. With this in mind, the Church must provide for pastoral care in prisons, for the material and spiritual welfare of the prisoners. This pastoral activity is a real service that the Church offers to society, and it is one that the state should support for the sake of the common good. Together with the Synod members, I draw the attention of society’s leaders to the need to make every effort to eliminate the death penalty and to reform the penal system in a way that ensures respect for the prisoners’ human dignity. Pastoral workers have the task of studying and recommending restorative justice as a means and a process for promoting reconciliation, justice and peace, and the return of victims and offenders to the community.’ (‘Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Africae Munus’).

Pope Francis re-affirms the Church’s belief that:

‘Today, capital punishment is unacceptable, however serious the condemned’s crime may have been.’ (‘Letter to the President of the International Commission Against the Death Penalty.’).

And again:

‘No matter how serious the crime that has been committed, the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and the dignity of the person.’ (‘Address of His Holiness Pope Francis to Participants in a Meeting Promoted by the Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelisation’; held in the Synod Hall on the 11th October, 2017.

There is no doubt that murder should carry a severe sentence – such as lifetime imprisonment – but there is no moral necessity that it be punished by death.

 

[Niblo]

Concerning ther notion that Pope Francis has given approval for the blessing of gay couples:

On the 18th December, 2023, the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) published the declaration ‘Fiducia Supplicans - On the Pastoral Meaning of Blessings’.

We are informed that the Declaration:

‘…remains firm on the traditional doctrine of the Church about marriage, not allowing any type of liturgical rite or blessing similar to a liturgical rite that can create confusion.’ (‘Presentation’; my emphasis).

Clause 31 states (my emphases):

‘Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage.’

‘The blessing, therefore, is intended for those who: ‘recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of (God’s) help – do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit.’

It is one thing for a priest to: ‘provide for (or) promote a ritual for the blessings of couples in an irregular situation’, and quite another to: ‘prevent or prohibit the Church’s closeness to people in every situation in which they might seek the God’s help through a simple blessing.’ (Clause 38).

The former seeks to legitimise the relationship itself. The latter implores the Beloved to give the actual graces needed for the couple to live in accord with His will.

It is important to note that ‘Fiducia Supplicans’ does not change the Church’s teaching on the nature of marriage; or the immorality of homosexual acts; or on any other matter of moral or theological doctrine.

The Declaration permits only a priestly blessing; one that implores the Beloved’s help to move the persons toward upright living.

In my view, ‘Fiducia Supplicans’ is basically correct in its approach to blessings – accepting that Pope Francis desires only that people receive the blessings of the Church, without priests actually blessing sinful unions. However, it will take years for the Church to work through all the various interpretations – and abuses – that are certain to follow.

Blessings.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Fran. How's tricks?

Blessings.

Hey Niblo!
So nice to see you here.
All the old folk are gone from the other site.
But it's a little tough here, but it's OK.
Hope to see you around.
Keep in touch.

 

[GodsGrace]

News to me! I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that Ratzinger's 1994 "If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Holy Communion as long as this situation persists." is still the rule. Where did Francis change this?

Hi RedFan
I see that @Niblo has given you a very detailed reply.
I'll condense it down for you a bit.

The Communion for remarried Catholics has been allowed since about 2015, when this was a very big change in the practice of the CC and which, really, never should have been changed because it's a MAJOR change. Some of us saw this coming, including myself and some of my conservative Catholic friends, to say nothing of some priests that were very disturbed by this. But, alas, it was only the beginning in a downward spiral.

The CC teaches that once a person is married, the marriage lasts forever, unless, for some legitimate reason, the marriage is annulled - which means (for some reading along that may not know) that the marriage was not valid and thus never really took place. For instance, lying to get married would be a reason. A forced marrriage would be another reason.

So.....if a couple divorce, it's as it they're still married.
If they get REMARRIED it's as if they're living in an adulterous affair.

In Amores Laititia, I'll link to it, the current Pope declared that some marriages are "not normal" and need special attention. Remarrieds was one of the "not normal" situations. He stated that a priest could give communion to remarrieds (which had thus been denied due to the adulterous affair) if their consciences so agreed.

There was a big to do about this, and much has happened since then with other matters.
It's difficult to keep up with this Pope. Many of us were hoping that things would change when he was replaced, but the changes have been so extensive that I doubt the CC could ever get back to how it was. He even has announced that the Mass in Latin can no longer be celebrated.

For instance, he has appointed many Cardinals that agree with him and his new policies so that they'll vote his "platform" when he passes.
Yes, it's become very political. That's how men are and what ruins the church --- every church. (denomination).

That's it in a nutshell.
I'll look for the linl.
Check out Chapter 8 and also the footnote.

You're going to have to click on En - for English up on top.

"Amoris laetitia": Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation on love in the family (19 March 2016) | Francis

Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation of His Holiness Pope Francis “Amoris laetitia”, on love in the family

www.vatican.va

 

[Niblo]

Hey Niblo!
So nice to see you here.
All the old folk are gone from the other site.
But it's a little tough here, but it's OK.
Hope to see you around.
Keep in touch.

Hi Fran.

Great to see you. I hope you are keeping well.

I don't participate in the other site these days; and am not a frequent visitor to this site either. Saw your avatar, and thought ..ahhh!

As for seeing me around.....like I've said before.....be careful what you wish for..

Love the balloons. You have a great day, and very best regards.

Paul.

PS: How dare you condense my work LOL.

 

[RedFan]

n Amores Laititia, I'll link to it, the current Pope declared that some marriages are "not normal" and need special attention. Remarrieds was one of the "not normal" situations. He stated that a priest could give communion to remarrieds (which had thus been denied due to the adulterous affair) if their consciences so agreed.

I have read through it, but cannot find this authorization.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have read through it, but cannot find this authorization.

Well, let me assure you,,,,the priests have.
And some have refused.

 

[Hobie]

Pope Francis has been making the news since 2014 when he decided that it would be OK for remarried couples to receive communion.

Other changes he has made:
1 It is now immoral to inflict the death penalty on anyone. (I agree. But the Catholic Church has no....until now).

2. The Council method used by the magisterium, and the magesterium itself, has been changed to the synodal method.
A very serious change.....and this Pope has added over 100 Cardinals so that a liberal Pope will have a better chance of being chosen next time around.

3. He has stated that a homosexual couple could be blessed. This would not only create a third blessing (there are currently only 2). Following are 2 paragraphs regarding same. Note that it speaks of COUPLES:

31Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.

32. Indeed, the grace of God works in the lives of those who do not claim to be righteous but who acknowledge themselves humbly as sinners, like everyone else. This grace can orient everything according to the mysterious and unpredictable designs of God. Therefore, with its untiring wisdom and motherly care, the Church welcomes all who approach God with humble hearts, accompanying them with those spiritual aids that enable everyone to understand and realize God’s will fully in their existence.

source: Dichiarazione “Fiducia supplicans” sul senso pastorale delle benedizioni del Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede
Part III Paragraphs 31-32


4. Divorce is not permitted in the CC except under strict rules.
Unless a marriage has been annulled, it is not licit for either party to remarry...
If they are, they cannot receive communion - defacto ex-communication.
Pope Francis has reversed this practice....allowing remarried couple to receive communion.

Many times he must be corrected or protected...a sad state of affairs for someone who should KNOW what he is stating and should avoid confusion - something this Pope does not understand. Sadly.

And with what authority does he do all of the above?
Some even consider that he is not a valid Pope.
Popes take an oath that they will not change established church doctrine....
He has broken this oath - to God.

He acts as would a dictator.
He ex-communicated - fired - two prominent Bishops in just the past year....
Bishop Joseph Strickland of Texas and Archbishop Vegano' just this past week.

Those who malign the CC and are changing it in all the wrong ways can stay....
Those who attempt to keep the CC as it has been and not change its doctrine to satisfy the modern world are fired.
A sad state of affairs.

Following are some videos for those Catholics who believe he's doing a good job and should remain.
The confusion he is causing for priests and bishops is enough reason why Francis should not be in the position of Pope of the CC.
No good leader requires constant adjustment to his comments---as he does.

The antichrist power is full before our eyes, yet many cannot see with eyes or hear with ears, the truth the Bible gives..

 

[GodsGrace]

The antichrist power is full before our eyes, yet many cannot see with eyes or hear with ears, the truth the Bible gives..

I think THE anti-Christ will require world-wide approval and Pope Francis does not have this....
He doesn't even have approval from all Catholics.

But he certainly is joining the ideology of the post-modern era and helping along the extreme left which is pure madness in an adult population. Many adults, it seems, have forgotten to grow out of the crazy ideas that teens usually have, and which they USED TO grow out of.

But, you may be right....who knows.
He doesn't have much time left though....I think he's 87 or so.

 

[Niblo]

But he certainly is joining the ideology of the post-modern era and helping along the extreme left which is pure madness in an adult population.

Hi Fran.

Examples? And please define what you mean by 'extreme left'. Many thanks.

Have a great day, and very best regards.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Fran.

Examples? And please define what you mean by 'extreme left'. Many thanks.

Have a great day, and very best regards.

Examples of how Pope Francis is helping along the extreme left.
OK
And what IS the extreme left....

The extreme left goes beyond ideology and is pushing an agenda and is being very successful at it.
In the extreme left there are not only absent any Judeo-Christian values....there are NO VALUES present.
Anything is acceptable.
Children can have a sex change and their parents can be held lawfully responsible if they DO NOT allow it.
The big problem here is that the PARENTS are going along with this idea.

Seems there are more than 2 genders and some children are facing difficulty in being sure of what sex they are.
They are being indoctrinated from an early age to accept this and are encouraged to question even this most basic
fact.

The extreme left, which believes itself to be open-minded, refuses to allow the right to speak.
Speakers on the right are often having to cancel speaking engagements at universities because of demonstrations by the extreme left.
This will remove our right to free speech.

In Pre Modernism,,,,Christianity was accepted as normal.
Then in Modernity it became neutral.
Now, in post-modernism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam (the 3 biggies - but all religion) are refuted as nonsense and atheism reigns supreme.
This removes any moral values from society and it goes beyond relativism.

The extreme left is too radical.
It does not allow for free discussion and would just be happy to destroy those of us that are conservative (of which I'm one).
Those of us who believe in a God.
Those of us that have any moral values.

How is Pope Francis contributing?
By pandering to the extreme left.
By saying HE CANNOT JUDGE.
By allowing same-sex couples to be blessed; albeit one person at a time.
By taking A WEEK to comment on the opening ceremony of the Olympics in Paris.

I think that's enough for now.
And Protestants keep saying that he's supposed to be the leader of all Christian religions in the world.
Some leader.

I think the 3 big religions should be working toward making this world a better place...
NOT becoming like the world.

 

[Niblo]

Examples of how Pope Francis is helping along the extreme left.
OK
And what IS the extreme left....

The extreme left goes beyond ideology and is pushing an agenda and is being very successful at it.
In the extreme left there are not only absent any Judeo-Christian values....there are NO VALUES present.
Anything is acceptable.
Children can have a sex change and their parents can be held lawfully responsible if they DO NOT allow it.
The big problem here is that the PARENTS are going along with this idea.

Seems there are more than 2 genders and some children are facing difficulty in being sure of what sex they are.
They are being indoctrinated from an early age to accept this and are encouraged to question even this most basic
fact.

The extreme left, which believes itself to be open-minded, refuses to allow the right to speak.
Speakers on the right are often having to cancel speaking engagements at universities because of demonstrations by the extreme left.
This will remove our right to free speech.

In Pre Modernism,,,,Christianity was accepted as normal.
Then in Modernity it became neutral.
Now, in post-modernism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam (the 3 biggies - but all religion) are refuted as nonsense and atheism reigns supreme.
This removes any moral values from society and it goes beyond relativism.

The extreme left is too radical.
It does not allow for free discussion and would just be happy to destroy those of us that are conservative (of which I'm one).
Those of us who believe in a God.
Those of us that have any moral values.

How is Pope Francis contributing?
By pandering to the extreme left.
By saying HE CANNOT JUDGE.
By allowing same-sex couples to be blessed; albeit one person at a time.
By taking A WEEK to comment on the opening ceremony of the Olympics in Paris.

I think that's enough for now.
And Protestants keep saying that he's supposed to be the leader of all Christian religions in the world.
Some leader.

I think the 3 big religions should be working toward making this world a better place...
NOT becoming like the world.

Hi Fran,

Thank you for that.

Please can you provide (or reference) the following:

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports sex change operations for children.

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports the removal of the right to free speech.

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports the removal of religious moral values from society.

At the moment, Fran – without such evidence – I cannot help but think:

That your commitment to the notion that Pope Francis is a villain is making you desperate to see things that aren’t there.

That your obvious animosity to the Pope is clouding your judgment.

That you are eager to make him the cause (or supporter) of everything that is morally wrong with society.

All of this, simply because you have decided, in advance, that he is always going to be the bad guy, come what may.


I agree: Followers of the three Abrahamic Faiths should strive to make this world a better place.....This process, of course, depends on each of us accepting responsibility for our own actions (and sins) - and acting accordingly - rather than pointing the finger at others.

‘Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.’ (Matthew 7:3-29).

It is – and has been – my privilege to know (and to love) many people who strived to make this world a better place.

Allow me to introduce my paternal grandfather:

He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in one of the local coal-mines (this was unlawful at that time, but who cared?).

Using the town’s Miners’ Institute – these Institutes were centres of learning – he studied (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. He was a polymath.

In the 1920’s, a number of Italian families moved into the Rhondda (South Wales Valley) and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in my home town.

When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians.’ This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and three children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).

One day, my grandfather – returning from work – discovered a mob, hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather stood between the mob and their target, and told them to stop, and to go home. They did.

Many years later, the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the investiture ceremony. My grandfather considered this to be a great honour.

He was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel (in Tynewydd). The Elders employed the Minister.

When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!

My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’

When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not attend funerals in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.

My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of the Beloved. He led by example rather than by argument. My greatest regret is that I was too young – and, when old enough, too immature – to hold long conversations with him, and to fully appreciate the kind of man he was.

He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.

Blessings.

 

[Johann]

Hi Fran,

Thank you for that.

Please can you provide (or reference) the following:

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports sex change operations for children.

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports the removal of the right to free speech.

An official Papal document declaring that the Pope supports the removal of religious moral values from society.

At the moment, Fran – without such evidence – I cannot help but think:

That your commitment to the notion that Pope Francis is a villain is making you desperate to see things that aren’t there.

That your obvious animosity to the Pope is clouding your judgment.

That you are eager to make him the cause (or supporter) of everything that is morally wrong with society.

All of this, simply because you have decided, in advance, that he is always going to be the bad guy, come what may.


I agree: Followers of the three Abrahamic Faiths should strive to make this world a better place.....This process, of course, depends on each of us accepting responsibility for our own actions (and sins) - and acting accordingly - rather than pointing the finger at others.

‘Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.’ (Matthew 7:3-29).

It is – and has been – my privilege to know (and to love) many people who strived to make this world a better place.

Allow me to introduce my paternal grandfather:

He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in one of the local coal-mines (this was unlawful at that time, but who cared?).

Using the town’s Miners’ Institute – these Institutes were centres of learning – he studied (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. He was a polymath.

In the 1920’s, a number of Italian families moved into the Rhondda (South Wales Valley) and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in my home town.

When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians.’ This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and three children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).

One day, my grandfather – returning from work – discovered a mob, hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather stood between the mob and their target, and told them to stop, and to go home. They did.

Many years later, the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the investiture ceremony. My grandfather considered this to be a great honour.

He was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel (in Tynewydd). The Elders employed the Minister.

When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!

My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’

When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not attend funerals in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.

My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of the Beloved. He led by example rather than by argument. My greatest regret is that I was too young – and, when old enough, too immature – to hold long conversations with him, and to fully appreciate the kind of man he was.

He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.

Blessings.

Not to incur the wrath of @GodsGrace I think this is a powerful post and ditto on the Scripture references-chock full of dunamis and kratos.
Johann