Lambano
Well-Known Member
Down South here, they say, "If the Good Lord's willin' and the creek don't rise".
Thoughts on Invocation and Benediction
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Reminds me of a joke.
A huge flash flood put a family on the roof of their home.
While waiting to be rescued they noticed a cap in the water floating by.
But strangely, it turned around and came back the other way.
This happened a few times before someone pointed it out.
Aunt Betty said, "Aw, that's uncle Earl." ??? "Say what?"
"He said he was going to mow the lawn today, come hell or high water."
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I didn't want to come back here, but think this needs to be said, can't get it off my mind. It is the flesh that is always trying to add to God's word and thus weigh it down instead of holding it in spirit. We shouldn't add anything to the word of God, apart from His Spirit....God doesn't need man's help. That always leads astray. There is no command or obligation given that i know of about blessing one another. Those scriptures you brought are good.....except I would say they aren't imposing an obligation on us but are illustrating what we already just tend to do naturally. I don't know how to explain this very well, but adding extra-biblical terminology and Naming things has the effect of putting the cart before the horse....it has a way of putting man/flesh in control in place of the Spirit of God. It is handling the ark with hands of flesh instead of the wooden (cross/spirit) poles...and puts to death the life of the Spirit.
I was suggesting that some of it might have been old habits from the old covenant, priestly kind of blessing, not that there was anything intrinsically wrong in it. But blessing is really just a prayer and speaking life giving words isn't it. Just from observation and experience it seems to come naturally (according to the new nature )to those who know Christ. We all tend to do it don't we......acknowledging/greeting our fellow saints, tending to say at minimum God bless you, an expression of love and because of feeling solicitous for one another's good in the Lord ( and some times or some people will be more eloquent than a simple bless you). God did say He would bless our coming in and going out. What a shame it would be to turn something that is of the Spirit and life into a dead ritual, but unfortunately this happens a lot in Christendom. Mystery Babylon has her daughters.
Welcome back. We missed you.
Do you believe in the Trinity? God in three persons?
The word Trinity is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
As with all doctrine, it is man-made. Fleshly, I suppose you would say.
Was greet one another with a holy kiss a suggestion?
Aren't they there for us to model our behavior accordingly?
Extra-biblical terminology?
Like Atonement, Transfiguration, Trinity, Deity, Conversion, etc.
There may be something to that. You likened "fleshly" acts to the mishandling of the ark of the Covenant.
Claiming the wood poles were crosses.
Your whole post sounds like back-peddling to save face.
Now you approve of Invocations/greetings and Benedictions/blessings, saying we do it naturally. ???
As if that means there is no need to discuss it. ???
I think what you really want is to silence me NO MATTER WHAT I SAY. !!!
Seriously?
That was NOT the point of this topic.
That's mighty heavy-handed!
Suddenly biblical invocations and benedictions are the blood-thirsty Harlot?
/
I didn't expect you
I wasn't expecting you to understand but maybe others who might read here will know what I'm trying to convey, even if expressed imperfectly.
Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth! I always have a greeting when I write on these boards. But the greetings are not always the same. I write these greetings not of my own accord, just as most of the words I write are not of my own accord. In my greeting to you there is a message of truth, just as in other greetings, there is a message of truth. I have found when writing on Christian boards that heeding Jesus's words, "Be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove, goes a long way to prevent frustration when interacting with others. In other words, playing dumb can be wise when mixed with The Truth of The Word of God. Be encouraged.
Yes. Hopefully other readers will chime in to help us understand.
Who knows, you might be wrong. - LOL
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Wow.
Invocation and Benediction in one sentence.
Impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well. - LOL
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Are you still feeling negative about considering Invocation and Benediction as a personal practice?
I don't mean in a dogmatic way, but to be conscious to invite God into our fellowship with other believers
and to speak blessings over them as the Spirit directs. Does that still seem bad to you? If so, why?
/
From the OP (with new emphasis)
Recent discussions on the forum got me to thinking about this.
I was a bit bothered by the use of Matthew 18:20 as either an apologetic, or invocation.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20 NIV
The problem being contextual. Not what Matthew 18:18-20 is about. And theologically speaking,
we are not required to gather with believers for Christ to be present with us.
There is however, an aspect to the gathering of believers that has to do with
the presence of the Holy Spirit in each individual having an effect on the spiritual atmosphere.
Not sure of the stated biblical theology/doctrine of that, but I certainly notice it in practice.
But rather than turn this topic into a heated discussion about biblical theology/doctrine,
I wanted to focus on the positive side of Invocation and Benediction. And not just in the formal sense,
but more as a mindset, or personal blessing. Not just left to leadership to open or close a service.
I grabbed a couple of definitions of Invocation and Benediction online.
Invocation
Benediction
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Questions:
- What are your thoughts on this subject?
- How can we live this out on a personal level?
- Do you have a personal testimony about this?
- Is Invocation and Benediction not to be used in personal application? (qualified clergy only)
- Any thoughts on the doctrine or theology of Invocation and Benediction?
/
Recent discussions on the forum got me to thinking about this.
I was a bit bothered by the use of Matthew 18:20 as either an apologetic, or invocation.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20 NIV
The problem being contextual. Not what Matthew 18:18-20 is about. And theologically speaking,
we are not required to gather with believers for Christ to be present with us.
There is however, an aspect to the gathering of believers that has to do with
the presence of the Holy Spirit in each individual having an effect on the spiritual atmosphere.
Not sure of the stated biblical theology/doctrine of that, but I certainly notice it in practice.
But rather than turn this topic into a heated discussion about biblical theology/doctrine,
I wanted to focus on the positive side of Invocation and Benediction. And not just in the formal sense,
but more as a mindset, or personal blessing. Not just left to leadership to open or close a service.
I grabbed a couple of definitions of Invocation and Benediction online.
Invocation
- The act or an instance of invoking, especially an appeal to a higher power for assistance.
- A prayer or other formula used in invoking, as at the opening of a religious service.
Benediction
- A blessing.
- An invocation of divine blessing, usually at the end of a church service.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Questions:
- What are your thoughts on this subject?
- How can we live this out on a personal level?
- Do you have a personal testimony about this?
- Is Invocation and Benediction not to be used in personal application? (qualified clergy only)
- Any thoughts on the doctrine or theology of Invocation and Benediction?
/
Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus is "in the midst" of 2 or more "gathered together"..
That would be "the presence of God", in the "service" or the "assembly".
A verse that corresponds with this, is.>"where any 2 believers agree as regarding some situation". then .. that is the same., aspect.
Every born again believer is the "Temple of the Holy Spirit", and when these "temples" assemble, then you have something special.
I'm not a fan of formalizing things when the scripture talks about needing to remain in the simplicity of Christ and not being seduced away from it. Greetings and blessings don't need to be formalized. And also, for example, there is no such thing as "church services" in the bible, just a gathering together of believers.. "When you come together....." "Wherever two or three are gathered in my name...".
"There am I in the midst" I believe speaks to a certain corporate anointing that is different from an individual anointing Maybe we could think of it like sticks that are burning......having more sticks piled together generates a hotter fire.
The Father's house is a house of prayer, Jesus said.....so I believe our chief reason for gathering is to pray and seek the face and presence of God together....to minister to Him and attend upon Him we are His servants...........and then He ministers to us in turn. Also to encourage and minister to one another through the various spiritual gifts He imparts. The body building itself up in love. Together, corporately, we form His Body and His Bride. At least that how I kind of envision "church", gleaned from scripture......not quite the same as the church "services" we typically see.
Behold
Well-Known Member
....
The information.... below is taken from this link...
Its a CATHOLIC "answers" site.
www.catholic.com
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""""""" we should not be surprised that Scripture presents these holy men and women of heaven bringing our prayers to Jesus the Lamb (Rev. 5:8), and that from the early Church onward Christians have asked the intercession of the saints who have gone before them to heaven.
In this light, we see that the saints—as faithful disciples of Jesus—are his collaborators, not his competitors in interceding for us. Consequently, because Mary is the Mother of God and the disciple par excellence (see Luke 1:28, 38), we should not be surprised that she is our preeminent intercessor among the angels and saints."""""
Reader,
did you ever read a NT verse that says that "angels" are praying for you or "making intercession"?
did you ever read a NT verse written by any Apostle, (27 epistles) that says..>"Mary is your intercessor.."..
I have a Bible. ( a few).
And online, there are a lot of "versions" and they say that Jesus is our "intercessor".. our "heavenly Advocate".. "making intercession", and that seems fair, as JESUS is the one who SHED HIS BLOOD so that we can become CHRISTIANs.
Mary didn't., nor did any "angel".
The information.... below is taken from this link...
Its a CATHOLIC "answers" site.
Why Pray to Mary? | Catholic Answers
Non-Catholic Christians often ask why we pray to Mary when we can go directly to Jesus. Click here to see how Catholics can respond.
-
""""""" we should not be surprised that Scripture presents these holy men and women of heaven bringing our prayers to Jesus the Lamb (Rev. 5:8), and that from the early Church onward Christians have asked the intercession of the saints who have gone before them to heaven.
In this light, we see that the saints—as faithful disciples of Jesus—are his collaborators, not his competitors in interceding for us. Consequently, because Mary is the Mother of God and the disciple par excellence (see Luke 1:28, 38), we should not be surprised that she is our preeminent intercessor among the angels and saints."""""
Reader,
did you ever read a NT verse that says that "angels" are praying for you or "making intercession"?
did you ever read a NT verse written by any Apostle, (27 epistles) that says..>"Mary is your intercessor.."..
I have a Bible. ( a few).
And online, there are a lot of "versions" and they say that Jesus is our "intercessor".. our "heavenly Advocate".. "making intercession", and that seems fair, as JESUS is the one who SHED HIS BLOOD so that we can become CHRISTIANs.
Mary didn't., nor did any "angel".
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What's your angle?
30 degrees? 45 degrees? 60 degrees? 90 degrees?
There's a triangle for that. - LOL
]
Behold
Well-Known Member
My "angle" is that the "cult of Mary's angle, is to try to deceive people into believing that Angels (and Mary) pray for you, and "intercede" for you...
Jesus had an interesting angle on that....>He said..>"
48 But JESUS answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And JESUS stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, = Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Reader...
all heretics (Like Calvin) have an angle... a CON.....and that is ... they take verses and reinvent them, as "doctrines of devils".
Actually, with just these two triangles you can on a drawing board with a Tee square it is possible to generate the following angles o°, 15°, 30°, 45°, 60°, 75°, 90°, 105°, 120°, 135°, 150°, 165° and 180° above the tee square's horizontal line as well as below the Tee Square's horizonal line. It all depends on how sharp the pencil is and on the ability of the person generating the respective angle such that you can from any point create lines that can approach towards or leave from that point on any of the angles listed previously whether relatively measured above or below the horizontal line.
But then that has always been your method of arguing your point. We can never know whether you are coming or going.
LOL
Yes, I used to use those tools before things were computerized.
LOL
I keep you guessing.
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