This will be a sign for you:

[Jack]

C'mon right out and tell us:

Did/does Jesus believe that a Jew has the same advantages as a Christian?

Jesus already told you:

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much in every way!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It means what it says. lol

What a cop out. You have been exposed, Jack. Your unwillingness to answer straightforward questions says it all about you. Yes, it means what it says, but what do you think it says? What advantages exactly do you think there are to being a Jew? Do you think any of them have anything to do with salvation in the sense that someone's ethnicity has something to do with salvation?

 

[Jack]

Why won't you answer simple questions? Your avoidance of giving your understanding of Galatians 6:15-16 and your avoidance of discussing the trinity suggests that your religion is Judaism.

If that's not true, then prove me wrong by addressing our questions. How do you interpret Galatians 6:15-16? Do you believe that Jesus is God?

I will not discuss Trinity until the staff here approves!

 

[Jack]

What a cop out. You have been exposed, Jack. Your unwillingness to answer straightforward questions says it all about you.

Yeah! I'm a Bible believer and nobody knows who you are. Everybody knows who Israel is!

 

[covenantee]

Why won't you answer simple questions? Your avoidance of giving your understanding of Galatians 6:15-16 and your avoidance of discussing the trinity suggests that your religion is Judaism.

If that's not true, then prove me wrong by addressing our questions. How do you interpret Galatians 6:15-16? Do you believe that Jesus is God?

It's worse than Judaism, bro. It's rabid racist zionist pharisaic talmudism.

An abomination of desecration.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I will not discuss Trinity until the staff here approves!

Where do you get the idea that the Trinity can't be discussed here? Do you believe Jesus is God? Surely, Jesus being God can be discussed here since that is a fundamental belief of Christianity.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yeah! I'm a Bible believer and nobody knows who you are. Everybody knows who Israel is!

What Bible do you believe in? Does it include the New Testament?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's worse than Judaism, bro. It's rabid racist zionist pharisaic talmudism.

An abomination of desecration.

Judaism is pretty bad. It denies Christ. But, yeah, his belief might be even worse. His refusal to answer simple questions is typical of someone who knows they have been exposed and are desperately trying to get out of it.

 

[covenantee]

Jesus already told you:

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much in every way!

There you have it, folks.

Jack says that Jesus says that a Jew has the same advantages as a Christian.

So there's no need for Jews to become Christians.

They're the same as Christians.

They're gonna make it without Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I told this fraud he believes in Judaism and he didn't argue. He won't discuss the trinity despite the fact there are no rules here saying that can't be discussed. Unless he denies it? I show him a passage that explicitly refers to those in the church as "the Israel of God" and he won't even comment on it at all. Beware of these wolves in sheep's clothing everyone. I'm seeing more and more of them on these forums recently. Including those who undermine Paul's teachings as well. Beware.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There you have it, folks.

Jack says that Jesus says that a Jew has the same advantages as a Christian.

So there's no need for Jews to become Christians.

They're the same as Christians.

They're gonna make it without Christ.

That's clearly what he believes. I don't know why he is here trying to convert people to his Jewish religion, but this is supposed to be a forum for Christians.

 

[covenantee]

Yeah! I'm a Bible believer and nobody knows who you are. Everybody knows who Israel is!

You're a talmud believer and all aware Christians know it. They know the pharisaic racism and blasphemies that permeate it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is utter nonsense at best and slander at worst. How is it anti-Semitic for people like us to believe that Jew and Gentile believers have been joined together as one in the body of Christ with no difference between us and can have fellowship together as the children of God and of Abraham (Galatians 3:26-29) as fellow citizens of the Israel of God

I cannot help if you arew offended for bveing called out.

I have no issue that Jew and Gentile are one body in Christ since Pentecost and until the rapture. That is the bible and a mystery in th eold revealed in the new.

but to call the church the new Israel of God is what is slanderous! There is no justification for this. Israel is Israel and the church is the church.

God still has a plan for the nation of Israel (the ethnic Jews) and that is clerly and abundantly spelled out in Scripture.

You on the other hand have no scriptural warrant to declare that the church is now Israel.

 

[covenantee]

God still has a plan for the nation of Israel (the ethnic Jews)

Salvation by DNA.

A modernist cult.

God is not a racist.

Your most desperate efforts will not contort Him into one.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yet, that is not how they are described. Why are you blatantly changing scripture to fit your doctrine?

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

The text is very clear. It's talking about "sin offerings" being made "to make atonement for the Israelites". NOTHING about them being supposedly done commemoratively. It's shameful for you to blatantly change scripture to fit your doctrine, yet I see people here doing that all the time. It's unbelievable.

Well that is a cite that I clearly said was a quote I would tend to agree with you that they are not commemorative in the millennial kingdom which this describes.

But the issue is that there will be temple in the millennial kingdom, there will be sacrifices done in the temple in the millennial kingdom and that gentile nations will bring sacrifices to the temple in the millennial kingdom or suffer drought for that year..

Israel shall also offer the offerings. The sin, wave, peace and sin offerings. Thus it is written and thus it shall be done. I give some credence to commemorative for the simple fact that Jesus blood has been shed for sin. but when the millennial kingdom is established and the king reigns and the temple makes offering we will find out absolutely.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I cannot help if you arew offended for bveing called out.

You can help being judgmental and making false accusations. Stop doing that. You should know better than that.

I have no issue that Jew and Gentile are one body in Christ since Pentecost and until the rapture. That is the bible and a mystery in th eold revealed in the new.

but to call the church the new Israel of God is what is slanderous! There is no justification for this. Israel is Israel and the church is the church.

I'm not saying that the church is the new Israel of God. I differentiate between Spiritual Israel and natural Israel. So, you are continuing to falsely represent what I believe. Stop doing that. I'm not doing that to you.

God still has a plan for the nation of Israel (the ethnic Jews) and that is clerly and abundantly spelled out in Scripture.

You on the other hand have no scriptural warrant to declare that the church is now Israel.

The nation of Israel is Israel and the church is also Israel. Two Israels. Just like Paul taught here:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

I have color coded the difference Paul made between national Israel and spiritual Israel. National Israel consists of those who are Abraham's physical descendants. They are citizens naturally and physically by blood. In contrast to that, Spiritual Israel consists of those who are spiritual children of Abraham and called through Isaac. Spiritual Israel consists of "the children of the promise" who are "God's children".

Who did Paul say are called through Isaac, are Abraham's spiritual children and God's children elsewhere? We can see that here:

Galatians 4:28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So, as you can see, I believe what I do based on scripture. If you want to disagree with my interpretations here, so be it, but to accuse me of being anti-Semitic is slander and completely uncalled for. I am simply believing what I see taught in scripture. I love all people, as I said. Even my enemies, as Jesus commanded.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well that is a cite that I clearly said was a quote I would tend to agree with you that they are not commemorative in the millennial kingdom which this describes.

Thank you for being honest and accepting correction. There is nothing wrong with that. We all keep learning new things as time goes on, including me. I learned something about Revelation 10:1-4 recently that I had not realized before, for example. Not going into that here because it's off topic. I'm just saying we should all be open to learning new things.

But the issue is that there will be temple in the millennial kingdom, there will be sacrifices done in the temple in the millennial kingdom and that gentile nations will bring sacrifices to the temple in the millennial kingdom or suffer drought for that year..

Despite you seeing what the purpose of those sacrifices would be, you still believe this? Why? How can we think that animal sacrifices for atonement of sin could ever be done again? What an insult to the once for all sacrifice for atonement that Jesus made!

Israel shall also offer the offerings. The sin, wave, peace and sin offerings. Thus it is written and thus it shall be done.

This is foolish and blatantly contradicts Hebrews 8-10! Why would you be willing to interpret Ezekiel 40-48 in such a way that blatantly contradicts other scripture and blatantly makes a mockery of the once for all sacrifice that Jesus made?

I give some credence to commemorative for the simple fact that Jesus blood has been shed for sin. but when the millennial kingdom is established and the king reigns and the temple makes offering we will find out absolutely.

You are giving credence to something you are making up in your own imagination. Stick to what scripture teaches only.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You can help being judgmental and making false accusations. Stop doing that. You should know better than that.

I am not being judgmental nor making false accusations. I am merely responding to what you declare you believe and what Scripture says.

I'm not saying that the church is the new Israel of God. I differentiate between Spiritual Israel and natural Israel. So, you are continuing to falsely represent what I believe. Stop doing that. I'm not doing that to you.

It is you that called the church the Israel of God. Unless you have a totally different belief of this than the other replacement theology acolytes here, I don't see why this is inaccurate. Maybe you should define why yo ubelieve the church is the Israel of God

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Too bad you ripped this out of its context to draw your false conclusion. this passage is all about Ishamel and Isaac. The child of the flesh was Ishmael and the children of the promise come through Isaace. You have reinterpreted what Paul wrote to promoete your replacement theology.

Here are the other verses that define Pauls intent:

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am not being judgmental nor making false accusations. I am merely responding to what you declare you believe and what Scripture says.

Yes, you are. I am telling you point blank that I love all people, including my enemies. Can you not just take my word for that?

It is you that called the church the Israel of God.

So what? Paul called the collective group of those who have been made new creations in Christ "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:15-16). Do you have a problem with Paul, too? Why are you so offended at the idea of their being two different Israels with one of them being entirely based on belonging to Jesus Christ and not anything physical like being a physical descendant of Abraham or being physically circumcised?

Unless you have a totally different belief of this than the other replacement theology acolytes here, I don't see why this is inaccurate. Maybe you should define why yo ubelieve the church is the Israel of God

Who am I replacing? You are talking as if I believe there is only one Israel and the church replaced ancient national Israel. No. I see a spiritual Israel and a natural Israel. Two Israels. You are not making comments that relate to what I believe, but rather to what someone else who believes there is only one Israel and the church is it. I believe in two distinct Israels.

Too bad you ripped this out of its context to draw your false conclusion. this passage is all about Ishamel and Isaac. The child of the flesh was Ishmael and the children of the promise come through Isaace. You have reinterpreted what Paul wrote to promoete your replacement theology.

How am I ripping it out of context? Do you not think Galatians 4:26 and Romans 9:7 are talking about the same thing? You just make baseless claims over and over again. Stop doing that. I do not believe in replacement theology. Do you think falsely representing my view repeatedly helps your case? If you keep doing it, I'm going to have to wonder if you're doing it on purpose.

Here are the other verses that define Pauls intent:

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

And you think these verses are saying what exactly in relation to what we're talking about? Prove to me that Romans 9:7 and Galatians 4:26 have no relation to each other if that's what you believe. I believe they are clearly related.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, you are. I am telling you point blank that I love all people, including my enemies. Can you not just take my word for that?

I did not judge whether you love people or not. But who died and left you the discerner of judgmentalism or not? I didn't know you were appointed the high authority for this.

So what? Paul called the collective group of those who have been made new creations in Christ "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:15-16). Do you have a problem with Paul, too? Why are you so offended at the idea of their being two different Israels with one of them being entirely based on belonging to Jesus Christ and not anything physical like being a physical descendant of Abraham or being physically circumcised?

No he didn't. that is a horrendous grammatic error that is abused by replacement theology people. Paul called a blessing upon two groups of people, those who walk according to the rule , and to the Israel of god! If you keep this statement grammatically, one knows it is 2 people, and if one keeps it in the context of the entire book of Galatians which goes back and forth about Jew and Gentile , people would not make the mistake you just did.

Who am I replacing? You are talking as if I believe there is only one Israel and the church replaced ancient national Israel. No. I see a spiritual Israel and a natural Israel. Two Israels. You are not making comments that relate to what I believe, but rather to what someone else who believes there is only one Israel and the church is it. I believe in two distinct Israels.

Then sapell out what you believe, for you write just like the replacement theology people.

but let me ask you one thing. Do you believe that natural Israel will be the highest nation in the millenial kingdom and they will have their long prophesied kingdom promised to them?

How am I ripping it out of context? Do you not think Galatians 4:26 and Romans 9:7 are talking about the same thing?

Gal 4 and romans 9 are speaking about different things.

And you think these verses are saying what exactly in relation to what we're talking about? Prove to me that Romans 9:7 and Galatians 4:26 have no relation to each other if that's what you believe. I believe they are clearly related.

They are not related.

Paul in Romans 9 was alluding to what Gods told Ezekiel that there is always a faithful remnant of natural Israel in all generations.

Paul in Gal 4 is talking about how even gentiles enter the body of Christ and that we are not under the law.