This will be a sign for you:

[Spiritual Israelite]

I did not judge whether you love people or not. But who died and left you the discerner of judgmentalism or not? I didn't know you were appointed the high authority for this.

You called people who believe what I do anti-Semitic. Those who are anti-Semitic hate Jews. No, I am not anti-Semitic at all. How is that a case of you not judging me when you said that about me?

No he didn't. that is a horrendous grammatic error that is abused by replacement theology people. Paul called a blessing upon two groups of people, those who walk according to the rule , and to the Israel of god! If you keep this statement grammatically, one knows it is 2 people, and if one keeps it in the context of the entire book of Galatians which goes back and forth about Jew and Gentile , people would not make the mistake you just did.

Nonsense! This is doctrinal bias at its worst. Paul was just making the case that circumcision (something attributed to Jews) and uncircumcision (something attributed to Gentiles) mean nothing and then he said what matters is being a new creation in Christ. He said peace and mercy to everyone that follows this rule (being a new creation in Christ), that is, the Israel of God. So, he defined those who follow the rule of not caring about whether someone is circumcised or not (whether someone is a Jew or not), and only caring if someone is a new creation in Christ as "the Israel of God".

Tell me this. In the following passage, what nation was Paul saying that we (Gentile believers) are fellow citizens with Israelite believers in?

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Paul said Gentile beleivers were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of promise", but now "are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people". So, Paul was saying that Gentile believers were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel", but now are "fellow citizens" in Israel. Which Israel was he talking about there? Are Gentile believers now fellow citizens of the nation of Israel? No, of course not. We're not natural descendants of Israel, obviously. So what other Israel are we now fellow citizens of with Jewish believers except for the spiritual Israel of God?

Then sapell out what you believe, for you write just like the replacement theology people.

LOL. I have been spelling out what I believe and I did again above. I don't know what more I can do to show you what I believe and why. You, on the other hand, mostly just give opinions without exegeting any scripture.

but let me ask you one thing. Do you believe that natural Israel will be the highest nation in the millenial kingdom and they will have their long prophesied kingdom promised to them?

No. Where do you believe that is promised to them? The fact that you only see one Israel leads you to conclude that prophecies made regarding spiritual Israel are for natural Israel instead.

Gal 4 and romans 9 are speaking about different things.

They are not related.

Paul in Romans 9 was alluding to what Gods told Ezekiel that there is always a faithful remnant of natural Israel in all generations.

Paul in Gal 4 is talking about how even gentiles enter the body of Christ and that we are not under the law.

Did you somehow not read this:

Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea: 'I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” 26 and, “In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’

And this:

Romans 9:30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

 

[covenantee]

You called people who believe what I do anti-Semitic. Those who are anti-Semitic hate Jews. No, I am not anti-Semitic at all. How is that a case of you not judging me when you said that about me?


Nonsense! This is doctrinal bias at its worst. Paul was just making the case that circumcision (something attributed to Jews) and uncircumcision (something attributed to Gentiles) mean nothing and then he said what matters is being a new creation in Christ. He said peace and mercy to everyone that follows this rule (being a new creation in Christ), that is, the Israel of God. So, he defined those who follow the rule of not caring about whether someone is circumcised or not (whether someone is a Jew or not), and only caring if someone is a new creation in Christ as "the Israel of God".

Tell me this. In the following passage, what nation was Paul saying that we (Gentile believers) are fellow citizens with Israelite believers in?

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Paul said Gentile beleivers were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of promise", but now "are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people". So, Paul was saying that Gentile believers were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel", but now are "fellow citizens" in Israel. Which Israel was he talking about there? Are Gentile believers now fellow citizens of the nation of Israel? No, of course not. We're not natural descendants of Israel, obviously. So what other Israel are we now fellow citizens of with Jewish believers except for the spiritual Israel of God?


LOL. I have been spelling out what I believe and I did again above. I don't know what more I can do to show you what I believe and why. You, on the other hand, mostly just give opinions without exegeting any scripture.


No. Where do you believe that is promised to them? The fact that you only see one Israel leads you to conclude that prophecies made regarding spiritual Israel are for natural Israel instead.


Did you somehow not read this:

Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea: 'I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” 26 and, “In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’

And this:

Romans 9:30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

Dispens incessantly and absurdly harp about "replacement theology", but when confronted to identify what is replaced, and who has replaced it, they flee for cover in deafening silence.

Israel's physical DNA is not replaced. The physical DNA of an Israelite after receiving Christ is unchanged from the physical DNA of that Israelite before receiving Christ.

Israel's opportunity to receive Christ is not replaced. There is room at the Cross for every seeking Israelite, as there is for every seeking Gentile.

What are replaced are the old things which are passed away, replaced by all things which are become new, for any man (e.g. Israelite) in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17

So that's in reality what dispens object to.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Dispens incessantly and absurdly harp about "replacement theology", but when confronted to identify what is replaced, and who has replaced it, they flee for cover in deafening silence.

Absolutely. Their ignorance knows no bounds.

Israel's physical DNA is not replaced. The physical DNA of an Israelite after receiving Christ is unchanged from the physical DNA of that Israelite before receiving Christ.

Israel's opportunity to receive Christ is not replaced. There is room at the Cross for every seeking Israelite, as there is for every seeking Gentile.

What are replaced are the old things which are passed away, replaced by all things which are become new, for any man (e.g. Israelite) in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17

So that's in reality what dispens object to.

Right. The old covenant was replaced by the superior new covenant.

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Israel has not been replaced, the old covenant has been replaced so that the Jews are no longer under the law of Moses and it has been replaced by the superior new covenant where people are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Nonsense! This is doctrinal bias at its worst. Paul was just making the case that circumcision (something attributed to Jews) and uncircumcision (something attributed to Gentiles) mean nothing and then he said what matters is being a new creation in Christ. He said peace and mercy to everyone that follows this rule (being a new creation in Christ), that is, the Israel of God. So, he defined those who follow the rule of not caring about whether someone is circumcised or not (whether someone is a Jew or not), and only caring if someone is a new creation in Christ as "the Israel of God".

No your grammatic lack of knowledge is what gives you your doctrinal replacement theology bias. What you need to see is that in verse 16 in the Greek there is a conjunction "kai" (and) which makes the last sentence a compound sentence and shows that it is addressing two groups of people.

Paul is wishing peace to the following:

All those who walk according to this rule
AND
to teh Israel of God (which is the faithful remnint he spoke of in Romans and in Galatians.

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Paul said Gentile beleivers were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of promise", but now "are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people". So, Paul was saying that Gentile believers were formerly "excluded from citizenship in Israel", but now are "fellow citizens" in Israel. Which Israel was he talking about there? Are Gentile believers now fellow citizens of the nation of Israel? No, of course not. We're not natural descendants of Israel, obviously. So what other Israel are we now fellow citizens of with Jewish believers except for the spiritual Israel of God?

Sorry to burst your bubble. But Israel stays Israel and now in the NT the people of God are ot called the Israel of God, but the church, the body of Christ. the church was a mystery in the old but a revealed truth in the new. Nowhere does it say the church is called the Israel of God. Galatians doesn't unless you toss out rules of grammar or allegorize the verse from how it is written.

No. Where do you believe that is promised to them? The fact that you only see one Israel leads you to conclude that prophecies made regarding spiritual Israel are for natural Israel instead.

Well when you take the whole counsel of Scripture on this subject and not just cherry pick and reinterpret verses, you see a plethora of verses that describe natural Israel as also being spiritual Israel. You see the entrire nation of Israel getting saved at the end of the tribulation. YOu see the New covenant fulfilled to natural Israel which also is spiritual Israel ( I use your terms here)

If you request it, I will past the enormous amount of prohecy concerning Israel and gentiles in the millennial kingdom. It will take time, so it may take a few days after you request it.

But Israel will sacrifice in the temple during the millennial, gentiles will come and bring offerings to the temple, twelve Israeli princes will govern the workld with gentile princes under them.

 

[Keraz]

Paul is wishing peace to the following:

All those who walk according to this rule
AND
to teh Israel of God (which is the faithful remnint he spoke of in Romans and in Galatians.

Even if Paul was racially differentiating between Gentile and Jew Christians, he still meant: All those who walk according to Christan precepts.
Clearly, there is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 2:11-18, +

What there is NOT; is a special Jewish group, now apostate and who will convert just before Jesus returns. This idea is a false teaching and in only made to support the huge error of the pre-trib rapture.

 

[covenantee]

No your grammatic lack of knowledge is what gives you your doctrinal replacement theology bias. What you need to see is that in verse 16 in the Greek there is a conjunction "kai" (and) which makes the last sentence a compound sentence and shows that it is addressing two groups of people.

False.

2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj

"c. it joins to partitive words the general notion; so that it is equivalent to and in general, and in a word, in short: ὁ Πέτρος καί οἱ ἀπόστολοι, Acts 5:29; οἱ ἀρχιερεῖς (καί οἱ πρεσβύτεροι Rec.) καί τό συνέδριον ὅλον, Matthew 26:59; καί δικαιώμασι σαρκός, Hebrews 9:10 Rec. Tr brackets WH marginal reading; καί ἐπί τόν Ἰσραήλ τοῦ Θεοῦ, Galatians 6:16"

Whose grammar to believe?

1. Yours
2. Paul's

Want a hint?

 

[Timtofly]

What is this based on? Why was the book addressed to seven first century churches in the ancient Roman province of Asia if most of what is written in it supposedly only pertains to things that happen at or near the second coming and after it?

So all 7 congregations would be in sync, and on the same page to teach the same message until the Second Coming.

Obviously that did not work out over time. But we do have Revelation in the NT Canon, and every believer can read the same message from John.

Paul thought he would be alive at the Second Coming, correct?

Was Paul wrong in believing the Second Coming would be in his lifetime? Are people 2,000 years later wrong in stating the Second Coming did happen back then?

The same could be said about the thousand years in Revelation 20. Was John wrong in giving a definite time frame? Are amil wrong saying that already has taken place?

If you had 3 last days of a literal week, only one of those days can be the literal last day. Thursday cannot be the same last day as Saturday. Looking at that in thousand year segments works the same way. The millenia that started in the first century, cannot be the third millennia, two millennia later.

Should all of the NT writers have been specific, and state it is ok for the church to go apostate, because the Second Coming would not happen for several millennia, and revivals would come and go, so don't try to stand against corruption, as it will happen any way, over and over?

You argue against dispensational thought that teaches specific points in history, yet you then yourself turn Revelation into your own road map of the past 2,000 years. How is that any different than mainline dispensational thought? You claim the book has 7 views, each distinct from the other, how history has unfolded. That was not the original intention, but some private man made opinion, that has gone viral. As you seem to indicate, the book was given to 7 first century churches, not to 7 epocs of human history.

Have the 7 warnings been applicable over time? Has being prepared for the Second Coming been applicable over time? Even if the Second Coming has not happened 7 times, in the last 1994 years?

If the seven distinct warnings to 7 individual literal congregations, cannot be seen as an historical prophecy, how can you say the things to come, that which John saw himself happening in the future, should be equally applied throughout time, even though they are centered around the Second Coming like the Olivet Discourse was centered around the Second Coming? The Second Coming was not an ongoing phenomenon. The Second Coming is a single future point in time, no? How those churches reacted to the world around them is an ongoing phenomenon. 7 distinct reactions to the world.

Even I have pointed out that Revelation 7:9-17, has been an ongoing event, even though John saw it for the first time after it had been happening for 2 millennia. This is not some single event after an alleged future time of tribulation. The time of Jacob's trouble is future and the church is not taken out one by one during Jacob's trouble. The church has been gathered out of the world for 1994 years now. That great tribulation has been the last 2 millennia. Would people in 270AD understand that point? Probably not. They never had the experience of looking back over 2,000 years of history like we can. They could only look back 200 years. Those in 270AD still had over 1500 hundred years of church history in their future. Did they know how much time is left?


We don't know how much time is left, either, although many have set dates. But certainly one could say that it is less time now, than for those in the 7 first century congregations. But your interpretation would be wrong for them to believe and teach, and 1900 years has not made your interpretation any more correct. If those 7 churches taught that Revelation was 7 parallel views of the future, they would have been dispensational futurists following a set pattern of events that would point to the timing of the Second Coming.

Yet that is exactly your interpretation, while you ironically denigrate and mock dispensational futurists, or you agree and back up those posters who do.

My view of Revelation is that most of what John saw was a live experience of the Olivet Discourse. John did not include the Olivet Discourse explicitly in his gospel. I think he lived it, and wrote things down as he saw them happen. He wrote using symbolism, as no one in the first century would understand concepts we understand today. And, no, I don't think he described modern concepts. Why would he do that? Is some future generation supposed to actually understand exactly what John wrote, or just be prepared, because the Second Coming could have happened at any point in history?

Jesus did not set some road map, and set dates. John saying there is a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth is not setting dates either. But saying Revelation 20 is just a symbolic time frame of the future is denying what John wrote and turning Revelation into a future road map.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Even if Paul was racially differentiating between Gentile and Jew Christians, he still meant: All those who walk according to Christan precepts.
Clearly, there is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 2:11-18, +

What there is NOT; is a special Jewish group, now apostate and who will convert just before Jesus returns. This idea is a false teaching and in only made to support the huge error of the pre-trib rapture.

First line- Yes there is only one people of God- the church. but as the context of Galatians is about Jews and Gentiles and teh laws of Israel etc. Paul showed the two types of people blessed.

Those who walk according to this rule and to the Israel of God! The remnant of Israel in all generations that are righteous.

As to you second line- you err for you know not the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Three passages expose your last thought as a lie.

Ezekiel 20:33-38

King James Version

​

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

The covenant is the new covenant for the house of Israel and the house of Judah Who will become one nation again!

Ez. 37:

15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Zechariah 13:8-9

King James Version

​

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

I will not apologize that Gods Word as He declared it to be spoken proves your replacement theology wrong.

None of these four prophecies have been fulfilled yet.

Also Jesus promised apostate Israel would repent:

Matthew 23:36-39

King James Version

​

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Now read this carefully! Jesus did not say UNLESS ( which would be a yes or no conditional) but UNTIL which is a fact that will happen! Just like it says in Ez., Zech. and Jer. and Rom. 11

 

[Jack]

You're a talmud believer

What does that mean? lol

and all aware Christians know it.

ONLY God would know that.

They know the pharisaic racism and blasphemies that permeate it.

Why aren't you in the news every day, like Israel? HMM? Nobody seems to know who you are.

 

[Jack]

There you have it, folks.

Jack says that Jesus says that a Jew has the same advantages as a Christian.

So there's no need for Jews to become Christians.

They're the same as Christians.

They're gonna make it without Christ.

You twist my words just like you twist Jesus' Words. You ain't Israel. Nobody seems to have heard of you. Israel in the Land of the Bible is in the news EVERY day.

 

[Jack]

What Bible do you believe in? Does it include the New Testament?

Mark 14:24
24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

 

[Jack]

Where do you get the idea that the Trinity can't be discussed here? Do you believe Jesus is God? Surely, Jesus being God can be discussed here since that is a fundamental belief of Christianity.

Read the forum rules!

 

[Jack]

What a cop out. You have been exposed, Jack. Your unwillingness to answer straightforward questions says it all about you. Yes, it means what it says, but what do you think it says? What advantages exactly do you think there are to being a Jew? Do you think any of them have anything to do with salvation in the sense that someone's ethnicity has something to do with salvation?

I answer with Bible. Why does that upset you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Read the forum rules!

There's no forum moderation here. Just tell me what you believe already. Do you believe Jesus is God? I will assume not if you won't answer the question.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I answer with Bible. Why does that upset you?

Your false interpretations of the Bible do, obviously. The Bible doesn't upset anyone here or else we wouldn't be here.

 

[Jack]

There's no forum moderation here. Just tell me what you believe already. Do you believe Jesus is God? I will assume not if you won't answer the question.

Of course Jesus is God. I've said it MANY times. And I will probably have to say it again since you don't seem to pay attention.

 

[Jack]

Your false interpretations of the Bible do, obviously. The Bible doesn't upset anyone here or else we wouldn't be here.

I don't need to interpret the Bible. It speaks loud and clear. You're not Israel. Read the news. You're not there.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No your grammatic lack of knowledge is what gives you your doctrinal replacement theology bias. What you need to see is that in verse 16 in the Greek there is a conjunction "kai" (and) which makes the last sentence a compound sentence and shows that it is addressing two groups of people.

Paul is wishing peace to the following:

All those who walk according to this rule
AND
to teh Israel of God (which is the faithful remnint he spoke of in Romans and in Galatians.

This is doctrinal bias at its worst. The context of the entire passage is about how one's ethnicity or nationality means nothing. But, Paul would then proceed single out the nation of Israel by saying peace and mercy to them by virtue of their nationality? Total nonsense!

Let's put your imaginary grammatical genius to the test here.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and (kai) ye that fear him, both small and great.

As you can see, the word "kai" is used here between the reference to "all ye his servants" and "ye that fear him, both small and great". Using your grammatical logic, we would have to conclude that "all ye his servants" and "yet that fear him" are two different groups. Is that what you believe? Clearly, all His servants fear Him, so this is NOT referring to two different groups. Likewise, those who have been made new creations in Christ and "the Israel of God" are NOT referring to groups, but referring to the same group in two different ways.

So, Galatians 6:16 should be understood like this: "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy upon them, that is, the Israel of God.". It is those who are spiritual citizens of "the Israel of God" who walk according to the rule that says being a new creation in Christ is what matters and not whether someone is a Jew (the circumcision) or a Gentile (the uncircumcision). For there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ (Galatians 3:26-29).

Sorry to burst your bubble. But Israel stays Israel

What bubble have your burst? Only your straw man's, not mine. I never say that the nation of Israel is anything but the nation of Israel. Your "replacement theology" nonsense doesn't apply to what I believe because I don't have the nation of Israel being replaced by anyone.

and now in the NT the people of God are ot called the Israel of God, but the church, the body of Christ.

In order to believe this, you have to ignore or misinterpret NT passages like Galatians 6:15-16, Romans 9:6-8 and Ephesians 2:11-13.

How do you interpret this passage:

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Paul indicated here that Gentiles were once "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise...but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ....who has made the two groups one....consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people".

Tell me, what are Gentile believers no longer foreigners and strangers to? The covenants of the promise, right? And what nation were Gentile believers formerly excluded from but are now "fellow citizens"? Israel. Are Gentile believers fellow citizens of the nation of Israel? No, of course not. So, what else are we now fellow citizens of except a spiritual Israel which you can call whatever you want, but Paul called it "the Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16. Regardless, it's not the nation of Israel that the blood of Christ brought us near to and made us citizens of.

the church was a mystery in the old but a revealed truth in the new. Nowhere does it say the church is called the Israel of God. Galatians doesn't unless you toss out rules of grammar or allegorize the verse from how it is written.

Again, tell me which Israel Gentile believers are fellow citizens of if not the Israel of God.

Well when you take the whole counsel of Scripture on this subject and not just cherry pick and reinterpret verses,

That is exactly what you are doing! Look in the mirror. It's very ironic for you to say this to me.

you see a plethora of verses that describe natural Israel as also being spiritual Israel. You see the entrire nation of Israel getting saved at the end of the tribulation. YOu see the New covenant fulfilled to natural Israel which also is spiritual Israel ( I use your terms here)

If you request it, I will past the enormous amount of prohecy concerning Israel and gentiles in the millennial kingdom. It will take time, so it may take a few days after you request it.

It would be a waste of time because you fail to recognize and acknowledge that Gentile believers have been made fellow citizens and fellow heirs with Jewish believers in the Israel of God (not the nation of Israel).

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

You need to join us in the New Testament era. It was formerly a mystery that Gentile believers would be fellow citizens and fellow heirs of the Israel of God, but that mystery has been revealed! Why is it still a mystery to you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course Jesus is God. I've said it MANY times. And I will probably have to say it again since you don't seem to pay attention.

I never saw you say it here. You certainly didn't make that clear in anything you've said in this thread that I've seen. If you've said it many times elsewhere, I wouldn't have seen that because I've never seen any of your posts in any other threads.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't need to interpret the Bible. It speaks loud and clear. You're not Israel. Read the news. You're not there.

This says it all about you. You say you don't need to interpret the Bible, which implies that you're saying you don't need any spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible, despite Paul having said this:

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

What you are saying, whether you realize it or not, is that even "the natural man" can understand all of the Bible, including the deeper things we talk about on this forum. Yet, Paul said "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned". And Paul was talking about "things also which we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth" which were also things he and the other Bible authors wrote down that we can still read today in the Bible. So, is that what you believe then? That no spiritual discernment is required to understand the whole Bible and that even "the natural man" can understand all of it?