There is only one true church

[Deus vult]

You are confusing bodily death with life in heaven. The saints in heaven are far more alive than we are because they are perfectly united to Christ.

 

[amadeus]

So then you are in agreement with the Orthodox and Catholics on apostolic succession. "God inspired men"..were the apostles not God inspired men who shared what they received from Jesus who is God? What about all the other bishops that succeeded the apostles? Were they also not God inspired men who received what the apostles received from Jesus? There's no shame in admitting the truth..in fact it is a virtue in a society under the dictatorship of relativism where the only heresy is to think there is such a thing as a heresy.

Please do not read into the words I wrote more than what I wrote. Why do you presume that only men in designated positions in one organized church group have been inspired by God? Consider what Jesus said here:

Lu 9:49	And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Lu 9:50	And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

 

[face2face]

He died physically, doesn't mean he's not alive in heaven. This is what happens when you take Bible verses out of context as a result of a lack of church authority and tradition that's passed down via apostolic succession. Every denomination of Christianity is an interpretation of the Bible, that is the fruit of Protestantism. Protestantism has been responsible for way more atheists and agnostics than the Catholics and Orthodox. The Catholic and Orthodox are growing, while people are leaving Protestantism either to become atheist or find their way back home in the church established by Christ.

Who is converting to what, more? Catholic/Orthodox --> Protestant/Atheism/Agnosticism or Protestant --> Catholic/Orthodox/Atheism/Agnosticism?

Provide evidence! Your opinions hold no value at all.
F2F

 

[face2face]

You are confusing bodily death with life in heaven. The saints in heaven are far more alive than we are because they are perfectly united to Christ.

Evidence please.

 

[face2face]

If you believe what Christians have believed and have taught in all generations, then you're built upon the Apostles. But if you're particular faith..what you think is so important to say, is something that only began to be said in 500 AD or in 1000 AD or in 1500 AD or in 1959 AD..whatever you're in, as good as it might be, is inadequate and is something less than the church of Christ. It isn't Apostolic. There is one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and that church has been teaching the gospel and preaching the Christian faith for 2000 years. It is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is Orthodox, but not Jewish. It is Catholic, but not Roman. It is not non-denominational, it is pre-denominational. It has been believed, taught, preserved, defended, and died for. It is the Faith that has established the universe. Proclaiming the Truth since 34 AD. The Church began on the day of Pentecost after Christ's resurrection.

Deus, what I've struggled to understand wth this subject is the degree of knowledge required for one to be saved. There are core beliefs which are taught by the Apostles, non-negotiables you might say by which a person is saved. I personally believe Christianity moved away from the true Gospel at the time of the Apostles, and since then, we have a gospel with no resemblance to the original. If this is shown to be true at his coming, how does the Lord deal with Christianity as a whole when he returns? They will be seen to be no different than the Jews who rejected the true Messiah the first time, and the Second coming of Christ will see the same!

I'll give you an example confronting as it may be.

If the Trinity was found to be false and idolatrous how would Christ deal with this and who would be teachable enough to learn of the truth concerning Christ, his nature and glorified position?

Now, I'm not wanting to debate the Trinity! I'm asking how Christ deal’s with apostacy when he comes - it’s in the earth, no doubt about that.

Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. 2 Th 2:3.

Now, I'm not wanting to identify "the" man of lawlessness, but wanting to know if Christianity is found to be apostate how will Christians who discover they have been deceived and are deceived repent and become teachable?

I've generally found in this forum very few who have a teachible spirit (including myself). Will this change if an unknown Christ returns and is mistaken for a freud?

There must be a single truth concerning the Gospel - this cannot be argued. Everyone claims to have it! My thoughts is the true Gospel is scattered throughout the earth in the hearts of those who by faith seek for those things hoped for and can show the evidence of those things which are unseen. If they have the Faith of Abraham they can be saved, otherwise only God Himself knows their end.

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

He died physically, doesn't mean he's not alive in heaven. This is what happens when you take Bible verses out of context as a result of a lack of church authority and tradition that's passed down via apostolic succession.

Context, you say...?

Acts 2:29-36.....New Catholic Bible....
“Brethren, I can say to you boldly that our ancestor David both died and was buried, and his tomb is in our midst to this very day. But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that one of his descendants would sit on his throne, he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, saying that he was not abandoned to the netherworld [hades] and that his flesh did not suffer corruption. “God raised this Jesus to life. Of that we are all witnesses. Exalted at God’s right hand, he received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,‘The Lord said to my Lord,“Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.” ’ “Therefore, let the whole house of Israel know with complete certitude that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

There is the context.....”David did not to heaven”....plainly stated. He died before Christ opened the way to heaven.....so even John the Baptist died before Jesus. He did not go to heaven either.
Jesus’ friend Lazarus was raised to life so that he too would attain a heavenly resurrection along with his sisters....why else would Christ bring him back to this life, only to die again?

As for the “chosen ones” (the “saints” or “the elect”) these were not going to be raised until Christ’s second coming....they would rise “first”....(Rev 20:6)

The apostle Paul wrote....1 Thess 4:13-18. New Catholic Bible....
“We do not wish you to be uncertain, brethren, about those who have fallen asleep. You should not grieve as do those who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so too do we believe that God will bring forth with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. Indeed, we can assure you, on the word of the Lord himself, that we who are still alive at the coming of the Lord will not have any advantage over those who have fallen asleep. When the command is given, at the sound of the archangel’s voice and the call of God’s trumpet, the Lord himself will descend from heaven, and those who have died in Christ will be the first to rise. Then those of us who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them on clouds in the air to meet the Lord. And so, we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.”

Those who have “fallen asleep” are the dead in their tombs. With his return, those “dead in Christ” (called to life in heaven) will be the “first to rise”. Those of that calling who are still alive when he returns, will join him in the clouds...(invisibly) so as to be with him forever.

Your church has twisted so many things....that none of you would ever know the truth when you heard it....
Others who have heard the truth but rejected it, will in turn be rejected by God’s appointed judge.

2 Thess 1:6-10....New Catholic Bible....
“ It is only just that God will repay with suffering those who make you suffer and grant relief to you who are suffering, and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. He will come in blazing fire to inflict punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, excluded from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on that Day when he comes to be glorified by his holy ones and to be adored by all believers, among whom you will be present since you believed the testimony we offered to you.”

The penalty for the wilfully wicked is “eternal destruction” not eternity in a fiery hell.
Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life. God never said anything more was in store for those who prove unworthy of life.....eternal death is an eternal punishment.

What your church teaches is nothing close to what Jesus and his apostles taught.....and all of them were Jewish.

Every denomination of Christianity is an interpretation of the Bible, that is the fruit of Protestantism. Protestantism has been responsible for way more atheists and agnostics than the Catholics and Orthodox. The Catholic and Orthodox are growing, while people are leaving Protestantism either to become atheist or find their way back home in the church established by Christ.

The RCC was interpreting scripture long before Protestants rose up against a corrupted church. It did one good thing...it gave the people back God’s word. And translations helped many to understand a Bible that was kept from them and twisted as they fed it to back to the people. They had no way to question anything and if they did, punishment resulted to silence them.

People will search in many places, but unless God directs them, their search will be in vain......only God can help us find the diamond in a large pile of broken glass. (John 6:65) Only God knows who is really searching, and not just looking for ways to confirm what they want to believe.

 

[Aunty Jane]

View attachment 48151

What have you missed in that quoted Scripture?
“God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him should not PERISH but have everlasting life.”

What does “PERISH” mean?........Look it up.

 

[Augustin56]

Evidence please.

Take for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). They were both fully alive and well, even though they had died long before.

I've heard some people whine that praying to the dead is forbidde by God. No. What God has forbids is the necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. “There shall not be found among you any one who . . . practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. . . . For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed” (Deut. 18:10–15).

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus, one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, “Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now.”

 

[Deus vult]

Please do not read into the words I wrote more than what I wrote. Why do you presume that only men in designated positions in one organized church group have been inspired by God? Consider what Jesus said here:

Lu 9:49	And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Lu 9:50	And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

I did not presume that only men in designated positions have been inspired by God. I said that at the very least, the apostles and bishops were also God-inspired men. You would at the very least agree that the apostles and bishops were God-inspired men, would you not?

 

[DJT_47]

Yes, there is only one true church which began on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2.

Believers are baptized into the body of Christ which IS the church, and added to it by the Lord, Acts 2:38-47.

That church can be replicated today as it was in the 1st century by preaching and teaching, as exemplified by the teaching of Stephen to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, the subsequent belief of the hearer of the word, their positive response, confirmation of their belief also as did the Ethiopian eunuch.by his confession of belief in Jesus Christ, and obedience to the gospel by their baptism into Christ, also as did the Ethiopian, eunuch as well as the Jews on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.

An assembly of such baptized believers constitutes the church, also as exemplified by the Jews on the day of Pentecost, which resulted in the beginning of the church in Jerusalem.

 

[Deus vult]

What have you missed in that quoted Scripture?
“God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him should not PERISH but have everlasting life.”

What does “PERISH” mean?........Look it up.

It seems to me that you have missed the words after "perish" which are..."but have everlasting life."

 

[Athanasius377]

But so were many other documents, writings, etc. The New Testament wasn't officially declared to be Holy Scripture until the late 4th century. The Church went through over 300 documents, letters, writing, etc., praying to the Holy Spirit for guidance, and came up with the 27 books out of the 300+ that we agree on is the New Testament today. Some of the documents that many were sure would make the cut didn't. For example, the Shepherd of Hermas and the Didacha were thought to be sure bets, but didn't make the cut.

With regard to liturgical worship, the focus was always the "breaking of the bread" (the Eucharist), which makes sense because true worship always involves a sacrifice. If all you're doing is reading Scriptures and talking about them, where's the sacrificial part?

That's not how it happened, lol. That sounds so good but its not true. The early Christians by the mid to late second century already knew by far and large what constituted the NT. There were some books whose authenticity was never in doubt, such as the four Gospels, Paul's letters, 1 Peter, 1 John. There were some that were spoken against such as 2 Peter, 2nd and 3rd John, James, Hebrews (Rejected by Rome), Jude and Revelation. Then there were a few books that were highly regarded such as The Shepard, Epistle of Barnabas and the Didache. These however were never thought of as scripture by any significant measure. They were sometimes attached to copies of NT books that were circulating. So you might find the Didache attached to Paul's writings (Which seem to be circulated at one collection sans the catholic epistles(see P46 which is believed to be late second century early third depending on the scholar). The rest were never considered anything remotely scripture.

Moreover, how do you explain the creation of the great uncial texts like Vaticanus and Sinaticus that predate the councils of Cartharge, Hippo and Rome at the end of the fourth century? Or what exactly is Constantine commissioning when he orders 50 copies of the Bible to made in 331? Or Athanasius's 39th festival letter (367AD) where he lays out the canon some 20 years before those councils take up the issue.

You see the canon developed from the ground up not from the top down. The church did not actively make something scripture rather it passively recognized scripture.

As to worship, lets hear from Justin Martyr:


And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son p 186 Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,2 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows, and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds, and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.


Justin Martyr. “The First Apology of Justin.” The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, edited by Alexander Roberts et al., vol. 1, Christian Literature Company, 1885, pp. 185–86.

There is nothing here of sacrifice, no mention of a priest which would be necessary for a sacrifice. That's because the doctrine of the Mass doesn't yet exist in Justin's time but oddly enough the importance of Gospels are specifically mentioned:


For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone.


Justin Martyr. “The First Apology of Justin.” The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, edited by Alexander Roberts et al., vol. 1, Christian Literature Company, 1885, p. 185.

 

[Augustin56]

That's not how it happened, lol. That sounds so good but its not true. The early Christians by the mid to late second century already knew by far and large what constituted the NT. There were some books whose authenticity was never in doubt, such as the four Gospels, Paul's letters, 1 Peter, 1 John. There were some that were spoken against such as 2 Peter, 2nd and 3rd John, James, Hebrews (Rejected by Rome), Jude and Revelation. Then there were a few books that were highly regarded such as The Shepard, Epistle of Barnabas and the Didache. These however were never thought of as scripture by any significant measure. They were sometimes attached to copies of NT books that were circulating. So you might find the Didache attached to Paul's writings (Which seem to be circulated at one collection sans the catholic epistles(see P46 which is believed to be late second century early third depending on the scholar). The rest were never considered anything remotely scripture.

Moreover, how do you explain the creation of the great uncial texts like Vaticanus and Sinaticus that predate the councils of Cartharge, Hippo and Rome at the end of the fourth century? Or what exactly is Constantine commissioning when he orders 50 copies of the Bible to made in 331? Or Athanasius's 39th festival letter (367AD) where he lays out the canon some 20 years before those councils take up the issue.

You see the canon developed from the ground up not from the top down. The church did not actively make something scripture rather it passively recognized scripture.

As to worship, lets hear from Justin Martyr:


And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son p 186 Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,2 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows, and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds, and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.


Justin Martyr. “The First Apology of Justin.” The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, edited by Alexander Roberts et al., vol. 1, Christian Literature Company, 1885, pp. 185–86.

There is nothing here of sacrifice, no mention of a priest which would be necessary for a sacrifice. That's because the doctrine of the Mass doesn't yet exist in Justin's time but oddly enough the importance of Gospels are specifically mentioned:


For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone.


Justin Martyr. “The First Apology of Justin.” The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, edited by Alexander Roberts et al., vol. 1, Christian Literature Company, 1885, p. 185.

The New Testament was not finalized and the canon was not set until the late 4th century. Those documents were not declare "Scripture" until then. They, along with hundreds of other documents, were read to the faithful, but not as Scripture in the same sense was we take it today. As I said, some of the documents they thought would make the cut did not, such as the Didache and the Shepherd of Hermas.

It was the Catholic Church, with the authority given her by Christ and the Holy Spirit guiding it, that declared authoritatively what the New Testament was...in the late 4th century. Before then, it was just conjecture.

 

[amadeus]

I did not presume that only men in designated positions have been inspired by God. I said that at the very least, the apostles and bishops were also God-inspired men. You would at the very least agree that the apostles and bishops were God-inspired men, would you not?

I agree that the apostles who wrote scriptures were inspired by God to do so. Having said that... who among even the apostles never quenched the Spirit of God? God has not revealed to me the answer to that question. How would I know any more about any bishops?

 

[Deus vult]

Context, you say...?

Acts 2:29-36.....New Catholic Bible....
“Brethren, I can say to you boldly that our ancestor David both died and was buried, and his tomb is in our midst to this very day. But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that one of his descendants would sit on his throne, he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, saying that he was not abandoned to the netherworld [hades] and that his flesh did not suffer corruption. “God raised this Jesus to life. Of that we are all witnesses. Exalted at God’s right hand, he received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,‘The Lord said to my Lord,“Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.” ’ “Therefore, let the whole house of Israel know with complete certitude that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

There is the context.....”David did not to heaven”....plainly stated. He died before Christ opened the way to heaven.....so even John the Baptist died before Jesus. He did not go to heaven either.
Jesus’ friend Lazarus was raised to life so that he too would attain a heavenly resurrection along with his sisters....why else would Christ bring him back to this life, only to die again?

As for the “chosen ones” (the “saints” or “the elect”) these were not going to be raised until Christ’s second coming....they would rise “first”....(Rev 20:6)

The apostle Paul wrote....1 Thess 4:13-18. New Catholic Bible....
“We do not wish you to be uncertain, brethren, about those who have fallen asleep. You should not grieve as do those who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so too do we believe that God will bring forth with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. Indeed, we can assure you, on the word of the Lord himself, that we who are still alive at the coming of the Lord will not have any advantage over those who have fallen asleep. When the command is given, at the sound of the archangel’s voice and the call of God’s trumpet, the Lord himself will descend from heaven, and those who have died in Christ will be the first to rise. Then those of us who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them on clouds in the air to meet the Lord. And so, we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.”

Those who have “fallen asleep” are the dead in their tombs. With his return, those “dead in Christ” (called to life in heaven) will be the “first to rise”. Those of that calling who are still alive when he returns, will join him in the clouds...(invisibly) so as to be with him forever.

Your church has twisted so many things....that none of you would ever know the truth when you heard it....
Others who have heard the truth but rejected it, will in turn be rejected by God’s appointed judge.

2 Thess 1:6-10....New Catholic Bible....
“ It is only just that God will repay with suffering those who make you suffer and grant relief to you who are suffering, and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. He will come in blazing fire to inflict punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, excluded from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on that Day when he comes to be glorified by his holy ones and to be adored by all believers, among whom you will be present since you believed the testimony we offered to you.”

The penalty for the wilfully wicked is “eternal destruction” not eternity in a fiery hell.
Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life. God never said anything more was in store for those who prove unworthy of life.....eternal death is an eternal punishment.

What your church teaches is nothing close to what Jesus and his apostles taught.....and all of them were Jewish.

The RCC was interpreting scripture long before Protestants rose up against a corrupted church. It did one good thing...it gave the people back God’s word. And translations helped many to understand a Bible that was kept from them and twisted as they fed it to back to the people. They had no way to question anything and if they did, punishment resulted to silence them.

People will search in many places, but unless God directs them, their search will be in vain......only God can help us find the diamond in a large pile of broken glass. (John 6:65) Only God knows who is really searching, and not just looking for ways to confirm what they want to believe.

The point was not about David, but that anyone who makes it to heaven is fully alive. Mary is in heaven, the saints are in heaven. Heaven is everlasting life.

"What your church teaches is nothing close to what Jesus and his apostles taught.....and all of them were Jewish." According to what? Your JW church established just 174 years ago? You admitted that you reject the Trinity, so you already follow the wrong god which is a heresy as God is three distinct persons.

The bottom line is Christians existed long before the Bible, not just scripture. Christianity started with Jesus, not the Jews or the OT. Who cares if the apostles were Jewish? They believed in Christ, they are Christians and only Jewish by descent.

 

[Deus vult]

I agree that the apostles who wrote scriptures were inspired by God to do so. Having said that... who among even the apostles never quenched the Spirit of God? God has not revealed to me the answer to that question. How would I know any more about any bishops?

Would you rather have an apostle hand down the teaching to you, or a complete outsider? And why would you rather have an apostle?

 

[amadeus]

Would you rather have an apostle hand down the teaching to you, or a complete outsider? And why would you rather have an apostle?

Why must I make a choice? What if no man were an apostle today? Would this mean that God would not save anyone today?

 

[RedFan]

As to worship, lets hear from Justin Martyr:


And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son p 186 Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,2 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows, and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds, and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.


Justin Martyr. “The First Apology of Justin.” The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, edited by Alexander Roberts et al., vol. 1, Christian Literature Company, 1885, pp. 185–86.

There is nothing here of sacrifice, no mention of a priest which would be necessary for a sacrifice. That's because the doctrine of the Mass doesn't yet exist in Justin's time but oddly enough the importance of Gospels are specifically mentioned

I hesitate to conclude that "the doctrine of the Mass doesn't yet exist in Justin's time" simply because "sacrifice" and "priest" aren't mentioned in Justin Martyr's First Apology. Perhaps I am not understanding what you mean by "the doctrine of the Mass." Liturgy evolves, but I think the roots of what is recognizable as a Mass can be found in Justin's account, particularly once we sprinkle in what we see in The Didache ch. 9 and 10. The rudiments of a second-century Mass are taking shape.

 

[Deus vult]

Why must I make a choice? What if no man were an apostle today? Would this mean that God would not save anyone today?

You must make a choice for the same reason you must make all other choices in life.

No man is an apostle today, that's why apostolic succession exists in the form of bishops and priests. If a JW came up to you for example, to tell you about God and that Jesus is not God but merely God's son, you wouldn't be saved based on that because they have the wrong god, it's heretical. Truth is exclusive and functions a lot like 1+1=2. The answer can only be 2, nothing else.

 

[amadeus]

You must make a choice for the same reason you must make all other choices in life.

Yes, I must make choices, but the ones that matter are the ones that God has put before me.

No man is an apostle today, that's why apostolic succession exists in the form of bishops and priests. If a JW came up to you for example, to tell you about God and that Jesus is not God but merely God's son, you wouldn't be saved based on that because they have the wrong god, it's heretical. Truth is exclusive and functions a lot like 1+1=2. The answer can only be 2, nothing else.

The Truth I believe is that Jesus is Truth. How well does any man know Jesus? The answer for any man is the portion of Truth that he has... or so I believe. Does not God look at what each of us has and then what each of is doing with what he has?

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.