There is almost zero in here that looks anything like Christ

[bbyrd009]

Know what you mean by the minimum standard. I agree, but it is necessary.

certainly, that "sin may be revealed," a religious way of saying that we needed a common baseline to identify acceptable and unacceptable behavior. But it seems that relying on it to do anything else is error, i guess; we can observe that good people do not need it, and bad people will not obey it in any case.

And that "good" people relying on Law to punish "bad" people ends up being a chimera that prevents us from being with God, although this will not be accepted i guess; but it is the very definition of "under the law" to me at least.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't understand your point about the coat and the shirt. I read it twice.

ah, hmm.

Well then, let me tell you that we have laws against giving someone who is stealing your coat your shirt as well! These are called "aiding and abetting" now.

 

[bbyrd009]

We do all need rules. We may not all need MORAL rules, but we do need rules to live in a society.

those under the law do, sure. If you have not found grace, you must adhere to law. If you have found grace, even when you break the law it will be overlooked. both of these are categorically true, even if some exception could surely be postu...found.

 

[bbyrd009]

Moral rule: You must pay your taxes. Yes, I'd pay them anyway.

ha. taxation is theft. A brief search of how much we currently pay in total taxes reveals how impossible a real number is to arrive at, but estimates range from 18% to just under 50%, and many taxes have not even been accounted for in these estimates, sales taxes, etc. Yet we are nonetheless over $20 Trillion in debt, and lots of obfuscation going on there, too, the real number might be more like $50 or $60 Trillion. We did great before 1913, as is often remarked in certain circles, lol.

Taxation is strictly theft, a wealth exchange from poor to rich. Not even a little bit moral, imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

Civil rule: You must stop at a red light. What if I'm in a hurry and there are no cars around? We're supposed to obey the authority, but it seems like such a little offense.

yes, there is no offense there; just an opportunity to monetize red lights.

 

[bbyrd009]

just happened to hit 62 in a 60 zone at the wrong time.

ha what a trip, just got my first speeding ticket in like 100 years fro doing 62! lol. Ok, 62 in a 50, but the speed limit was 60 and i "missed" the limit change.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not certain how to put that in perspective with Jesus being the final sacrifice needed? I have written many times that I did try to join a few different fellowship, starting at 6 odd years after my first encounter with Him.....It almost destroyed me, and tried to destroy my faith, so I opted out a long time ago now, but I know for sure that they inserted 'ideas', like weeds in a lovely garden, which made things so hard at times....I am still un-learning some of those things...
A couple of the fellowships I went to talked about the Rapture and a couple didn't..I have no direct knowledge about this, so it would be pure guesswork on my part, and I don't like doing it that way..........Do I believe that at some point our Father will gather all together in His Son ? Yes I do, because of things revealed which point to that being the Truth..:)

i agree there, but i'm pretty sure that that will not culminate in a rapture nonetheless. As to "Not certain how to put that in perspective with Jesus being the final sacrifice needed?" in reply to '"Who told you that you were naked?" is not really being grasped here imo,' i meant to comment on the "God accepting His sacrifice" part in your "He was offered up ONCE for all, and God accepted His sacrifice as 'payment' in full for mankind..." reflection.

God needed no sacrifice, and no payment was being asked for, is my proposition there. Understand that God "accepted the sacrifice" is a different prop ok.

If you (or anyone) can find any Script for "God needed Jesus to come and reconcile us to Himself," i'd like to see it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sword is not new to this site. He's been a member for about a year and most of his content is similar or worst than that of the OP.

I don't want to judge him but I see nothing that even comes close to Christ-like behavior. If he was my first introduction to Jesus, I would probably be an atheist.

Just saying...

.

Well then I'd have to agree that if he dislikes it that much here, he should just leave.

OR, he could learn to start good threads and stick to scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not everyone needs rules, most people in this world would not know most of the "laws" yet will never break them. The laws are there for the "bad" people, it offers the government a way to put them away, yet most governments break them everyday. A bit like speed cameras, "safety cameras here" never yet seeing a "safety camera" apply the brakes to a speeding car.. Se there are many people in this world who drive quiet safetly, never broken the law, than along came speed cameras, suddenly Bob who has being driving for 50 years gets his first ticket. never really did anything wrong, just happened to hit 62 in a 60 zone at the wrong time. Now rules are made to increase governments income. Sad thing is with all there investments on speed cameras , more people are dying on teh roads than ever. makes it all a big joke.

Ditto for where I live.
The whole post above reminds me of the Mosaic Law.
And you're right. The bad don't care about laws, only the good do.
And they don't really need them...
This would go to bb's remarks re my saying "we" need laws.
In some ways, we all do.

 

[GodsGrace]

well, depends upon your definition of "society" i guess, but certainly, yes.
We have many, hundreds of currently functioning, even ancient societies with no "cops."

Ralph's society was functioning, with him as chief.

Ralph was the good guy?
OK agreed.

But then the nasty one took over.
Was THAT society functioning??
NO!
It was disfunctioning.

And re the ones that do...
How far into the Brazilian forest are you willing to go not to have cops??

 

[GodsGrace]

pretty good description of the PTB in there somewhere, i guess? It seems that you are just discounting the role of "chief" in the story, which imo is more a story about "who will watch the watchers" to me at least. Or "absolute power corrupts absolutely" perhaps.

hmm. that is one conclusion, i guess. But Jack had followers, in order to even become chief, right. Jack all by himself would not likely have deposed Ralph iow. So Jack was empowered by other people, and just killing Jack removes a like a symptom, does not fix the problem, yes?

ya, google is helping me lol

bb
It's a story about good and evil.
About which group was stronger.
About how fear affects who a person will support for chief.
The nasties will always win for the reasons I've already stated.

 

[GodsGrace]

i agree there, but i'm pretty sure that that will not culminate in a rapture nonetheless. As to "Not certain how to put that in perspective with Jesus being the final sacrifice needed?" in reply to '"Who told you that you were naked?" is not really being grasped here imo,' i meant to comment on the "God accepting His sacrifice" part in your "He was offered up ONCE for all, and God accepted His sacrifice as 'payment' in full for mankind..." reflection.

God needed no sacrifice, and no payment was being asked for, is my proposition there. Understand that God "accepted the sacrifice" is a different prop ok.

If you (or anyone) can find any Script for "God needed Jesus to come and reconcile us to Himself," i'd like to see it.

You're right.
Jesus came to break our enslavement to satan.
To break our enslavement to sin.
God DID NOT need a sacrifice.
But Jesus showed satan that he did not ultimately own humans or the earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

certainly, that "sin may be revealed," a religious way of saying that we needed a common baseline to identify acceptable and unacceptable behavior. But it seems that relying on it to do anything else is error, i guess; we can observe that good people do not need it, and bad people will not obey it in any case.

And that "good" people relying on Law to punish "bad" people ends up being a chimera that prevents us from being with God, although this will not be accepted i guess; but it is the very definition of "under the law" to me at least.

Agree with paragraph 1.
Don't understand paragraph 2.
How does punishing the bad prevent us from being with God?
Under The Law is simple. It's a bunch of people trying to follow the law with no incentive.

 

[GodsGrace]

ha. taxation is theft. A brief search of how much we currently pay in total taxes reveals how impossible a real number is to arrive at, but estimates range from 18% to just under 50%, and many taxes have not even been accounted for in these estimates, sales taxes, etc. Yet we are nonetheless over $20 Trillion in debt, and lots of obfuscation going on there, too, the real number might be more like $50 or $60 Trillion. We did great before 1913, as is often remarked in certain circles, lol.

Taxation is strictly theft, a wealth exchange from poor to rich. Not even a little bit moral, imo.

Yeah.
I misspoke.
(doesn't happen often - remember this)
I AGREE WITH YOU!!

 

[bbyrd009]

But then the nasty one took over.
Was THAT society functioning??
NO!
It was disfunctioning.

nonetheless, he represents a new authority, not the lack of an authority at all.

 

[bbyrd009]

And re the ones that do...
How far into the Brazilian forest are you willing to go not to have cops?

ha. while this is the perception, anyone who has called a cop only to come and have them tell you "that's a civil matter" knows better imo. Besides which there are many more accessible...um, fringes, that operate sans authority figures. I'm on Giuseppe (Useppa) Island right now--made me think of you lol--no cops here.

 

[bbyrd009]

The nasties will always win for the reasons I've already stated.

ha--all i can really do is agree with you, that is what seems to happen, even though Scripture says that it is not what is happening.

 

[GodsGrace]

ha. while this is the perception, anyone who has called a cop only to come and have them tell you "that's a civil matter" knows better imo. Besides which there are many more accessible...um, fringes, that operate sans authority figures. I'm on Giuseppe (Useppa) Island right now--made me think of you lol--no cops here.

Where's that???

Right, on the rest.

 

[bbyrd009]

How does punishing the bad prevent us from being with God?

well, if you have the coat stealer arrested, obviously you are not giving him your shirt as well, see. In this case you have chosen to be "under the law."

Under The Law is simple. It's a bunch of people trying to follow the law with no incentive.

indeed

Yeah.
I misspoke.
(doesn't happen often - remember this)
I AGREE WITH YOU!!

:)

 

[GodsGrace]

ha--all i can really do is agree with you, that is what seems to happen, even though Scripture says that it is not what is happening.

God will win in the end.
His plan will be victorious.

But if you put me and a gang girl in a room, who will win?