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What does it mean to perish? That is the opposite of eternal life and immortality. I think it means this, where Jesus said we are to fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell......."hell" being the lake of fire in the end, where those outside the kingdom are cast...? Death....the wages of sin.@Lizbeth
the gates of the kingdom never close.
Justification of sins being paid for, Satan being done away with, and hell being done away with, are all on account of Jesus… for all people.
Many doubt the total victory of Yeshua for all.
Justification by faith to get into the Kingdom of Heaven, is to live a life filled with love and faith, to Yahavah and others.
Therefore, I hear what you been taught but you sure are not wrong? I can be wrong sometimes but I don’t believe I am about this.
This verse speaks of the rapture. so you believe jesus already came and the resurrection and catching up has already taken place? Proof?Listen, you can continue to hold that belief if you desire, I believe Jesus already came. It may be crazy to you, but it's not crazy to me.
What does it mean to perish?
This verse speaks of the rapture. so you believe jesus already came and the resurrection and catching up has already taken place? Proof?
So you believe this has happened:I don’t need proof. It’s called faith.
I don’t believe those people who were waiting and watching for Jesus was lied to.
So you believe this has happened:
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
King James Version
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord
When I said proof, I was asking for the evidence of it happening. After all if hundreds of thousands of people simply vanished in teh blink of an eyue off teh earth, it would be recorded.
So yes or no- are you declaring thatIt was written to the people in Thessalonica.
“Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.”
1 Thessalonians 1:1 ESV
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace. | English Standard Version 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now
Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.bible.com
Real living breathing people of course I believe faithfully those words were not written to lie to those people. And it came to pass in the victory of Yeshua.
I don’t need proof… it’s call faith, it’s the foolishness of “tradition” that falls on its face.
The 1st and 2nd Resurrection are exactly the same. Those who are resurrected during the Second Coming, who have either died in Christ since Pentecost, Old Testament saints that have had Jesus' atonement imputed to them and those who are alive ( raptured), experience the 1st Resurrection.Those that believe and have faith in God and Jesus now, who have been called by God to receive the amazing blessing of becoming adopted sons of God (in the first resurrection), they are judged worthy of eternal life and gain immortality in the first resurrection. John 1:12-13 (ISV):
During the Millennial Kingdom _ initially _ there will be only Christians who ALL have the knowledge of God.The rest of mankind, a large portion of whom will have no knowledge of Jesus and God, when they are resurrected (in the second resurrection) will still lack that knowledge. That is why Jesus (and the resurrected Christians) will reign over them for 1,000 years, teaching them and gently restoring them back to human perfection. Satan is locked up at the beginning of the 1,000 reign, so that he cannot deceive mankind any more, and everyone will come to learn the truth and will learn to live righteously. Satan is then released at the end of the 1,000 years to test everyone living on the earth. Those that side with Satan will be destroyed.
So yes or no- are you declaring that
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
King James Version
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
has already happened?
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
King James Version
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words
@Ronald Nolette
Yes or no, where these people lied to?
“Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.”
1 Thessalonians 1:1 ESV
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace. | English Standard Version 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now
Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.bible.com
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
King James Version
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words
If they were lied too how can we justify anything that your quoting… how can we trust the Bible if all there is lies in it?
These people never seen the return? Is what some may say. I disagree.
“having a part in the lake of fire is not forever.”
View attachment 49662
“The one on the throne” told John to write this they are faithful and true.
“It seems people live outside the Kingdom.”
Revelation 22:14-15
View attachment 49663
How do people reconcile people being just done away with when it doesn’t say anything about that…
Again, where is this third location, (if not the Kingdom of Heaven and not Hell), do all those souls, whom you claim are saved but did not receive Jesus, go to?
You claim not to be a Universalist, yet at the same time claim that all are universally saved, universally justified.
Justification is BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH - which is a gift into the Kingdom of Heaven.
So your theology is severely flawed, contradictory and fabricated since you can't support it with scriptures. None of the scriptures you present support such a theology. Where did you get it?
An Amillennialist and (an offshoot derivative theology from Universalism is a very rare combo MatthewG!
You evidently don't understand what justification is!What are you talking about? (post 61) All people are Justified in front of God - even with the sin life they lived.
Some men build their homes on the sand too!. I continue to stand on my first post, in all people are able to get to Yahavah, because of Jesus Christ justifying their sins being paid for.
We are justified by faith in Christ. If one does not have faith in Christ guess what?Justification for all sins being paid for is by Christ. (that's for all people!)
Well MatthewG, at least you believe in Christ. He will explain the rest to you later on.
It does not say Kingdom, it says city.“It seems people live outside the Kingdom.”
Revelation 22:14-15
Revelation 21:8 (WEB):How do people reconcile people being just done away with when it doesn’t say anything about that…
It does not say Kingdom, it says city.
Revelation 22:14-15 (WEB):
(14) Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.(15) Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Those who do God's commandments have the right to eternal life, those who don't will perish. Only they have access to the city and to the tree of life, Revelation 21:27 (WEB):
(27) There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Revelation 21:8 (WEB):
(8) But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
A thousand years has been set aside for perfecting everyone. It is the easy way, not the narrow way that Christians have to take now.@keithr (I’m just curious) you expect a 1,000 years to be able to get people back to human perfection?
That's why there will be a testing and a judgement at the end of the 1,000 years of reign, to ensure that only those suitable for eternal life will be allowed to have eternal life.If Angels could leave Yahvah, I don’t see why a resurrected person couldn’t walk right out the gates if they decided too…