The world has been “made right” in front of God.

[MatthewG]

@Behold,

I’m not trying to debate with you or anything. I do believe that Jesus died once, and was raised once for justification of all the world’s sins, in front of the Father.

I know that it’s a choice to place faith in God or not. But this doesn’t effect what Jesus has done in front of his Father in Yahavah reconciling the world to himself.

All sins have been paid for all people, no matter if they accept that as truth or not. That’s something between the Father and the Son which had been done; apart from others choices.

 

[Taken]

If I may correct that slightly...

"To Justify", δικαιόω ("dikaioo", Strong's G1344), is a forensic term that means

3. To declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be.

Which means the Judge as found in your favor. And I don't think that is applicable to all people.

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of Torah. - Romans 3:28.

I was trying not to use the root word “JUST” to define “JUSTIFIED”…”JUSTICE”…etc.

ALL shall be “judged”…
Some are “justified” to be wIth God forever.
Some are “justified” to be without God forever.
Meaning …. Righteous Judgement shall be…..has been rendered…

People are “spiritually” (via God) being “judged” (perse’) and subject to “judgements”….(consequences)…..”all the time”….long before “THEIR” personal death…and long before “THE END OF DAYS” (as we know them)….

Meaning…
for example…people who turn their back on God….they become JUSTLY (justified) unworthy of certain blessings, or protections from God….

Agree “typically” JUSTIFIED in the sense for an individual to have become “prepared” IN Christ..carries the meaning…ALREADY (spiritually) “accounted” fully/ wholly “prepared” body, soul, spirit…to receive Gods glorification.

However so ALSO….does the EVIDENCE AGAINST individuals become the “justification” the “justifier”….for their “justification” to forever be separated FROM God.

It’s one of those conundrum words…that means favorable or not favorable…depending on what the individual desires and Gods evidentiary “record books” reveals.

Thank you.
God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

@Taken,

I know you may not like talking to me or whatever or use discretion.
You do understand my point now though right? Yeshua, gave his life for the Father and for the whole world. There are people whom are followers of the Lord Jesus and follow him and they still fall short due to the flesh but they are faithful and they are made right and adopted and made Children of God, by the holy spirit given to them. However, even so, for the unbeliever they still have had their sins paid for, even if they do not accept it as being true. Do you know why? Because what the Father and the Son have had done between each other - is not conditional upon the choices of others. It's because of what the Son did for the world that all people are justified in having their sins paid for on his behalf. Now if they accept that behalf or not is on them, but it doesn't stop it from being true.

I can say to anyone "Your sins have been forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ already." To any person... its like when Jesus said which is easier to say "your sins are forgiven, or get up, walk and take your mat, to the paralyzed person." The truth is, both are easy to say. Especially in the total victory of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Behold]

reconciling the world to himself.

The Reconciliation is completed.
Jesus said.. "It is FINISHED", when He was on The Cross, and was ready to die.

So, every sin of every person, for the last 2000 yrs, and the sin of those who were in "paradise".. (Abraham's Bosom) were forgiven..

And when each of US Trusts in Christ... then this Forgiveness that is Universal, is applied........1 Believer at a time.

 

[Lambano]

ALL shall be “judged”…
Some are “justified” to be wIth God forever.
Some are “justified” to be without God forever.
Meaning …. Righteous Judgement shall be…..has been rendered…

I'm sorry, but no, that's NOT what "Justified" means in English. It means very specifically, "to be found to be in the right."

 

[Lambano]

Is that taking it to far for some? I've stated before that yes, we are justified by faith - however is Jesus and his death justification for all peoples sins, or not?

That brings up the theological question, exactly what does a "propitiation" or "atoning sacrifice" accomplish?

 

[Taken]

I'm sorry, but no, that's NOT what "Justified" means in English. It means very specifically, "to be found to be in the right."

I acknowledged what you are saying…typically Scriptural more so…than “English”.

God IS JUST…he serves JUSTICE accordingly…be the JUSTICE….a negative or positive consequence…was my point.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[KUWN]

Now, this is significant "Justification" because people are now held responsible for their own choices in this life. Good or bad, they are justified because of the death of Yeshua. However, that doesn't mean that all people reach out, and then move forward to the "Sanctification" phase of their life, where Yahavha gives the holy spirit in the heart of a "believer."

This sounds like Universalism. Unbelievers are bought/redeemed (2 Peter 2.1) by the work of Christ upon the Cross, but no unbeliever is "justified." Justified equals salvation. Once the unbeliever is saved/justified, then then is to move forward in sanctification.

 

[KUWN]

That brings up the theological question, exactly what does a "propitiation" or "atoning sacrifice" accomplish?

God the Father was satisfied with the work of Christ upon the cross. i.e., he is propitiated. The atoning sacrifice is the payment for sins. Unbelievers sins have been atoned for, but that does not mean they are saved. Salvation is by accepting God's offer of salvation. As Christ said, by your words you will be condemned, and by your words you will be justified.

 

[Windmill Charge]

God the Father was satisfied with the work of Christ upon the cross. i.e., he is propitiated. The atoning sacrifice is the payment for sins. Unbelievers sins have been atoned for, but that does not mean they are saved. Salvation is by accepting God's offer of salvation. As Christ said, by your words you will be condemned, and by your words you will be justified.

To put it another way, an eccentric billionaire is throwing the party to end all parties. You fill out what you want in the party.
We are all invited and gues what a letter/email arrives in your inbox.
The day arrives and you queue at the destination and arrive finally at the entrance.
There a list is consulted, the qr code on your phone is scanned.

But there is no record of you as a guest at this party.
As you are escorted out the bouncer points out you had to reply to the invite to say you were coming.

Jesus's invite to heaven requires a response now, today.

Yes Jesus's blood and righteousness is more than enough to atone for every person every sin.

But they still have to believe in him.
John3:16-18 always applies.

 

[Lambano]

God the Father was satisfied with the work of Christ upon the cross. i.e., he is propitiated.

I remember some discussions with a new Christian for whom the concept of propitiating the gods with blood sacrifices was barbaric. Ever watch an actual Santeria sacrifice? "I was really mad at those humans, but now that I've killed my own son, I feel a lot better."

What is it that we as Christians really believe about the Atonement?

 

[MatthewG]

That brings up the theological question, exactly what does a "propitiation" or "atoning sacrifice" accomplish?

Hello Lambano,

Reconciliation of the World, in which Yahavah is not angry with people. People choose the tree of life, or the tree of knowledge and good and evil. That is what has been restored by Jesus and what he did not only for his Father, but the whole world itself. However many people do not really believe this is true, as there are many people who continue to suggest that Jesus' death on the cross is meaningless, even for the unbelievers. At least every time I hear what they suggest that is what goes through my mind... that Jesus did not do anything...

Do you remember when Jesus asked the Pharisees; Which is easier to say, "Get up and take your mat, or your sins are forgiven?" The truth was, that both were easy to say. Though whether they believed it or not was irrelevant. These are just some of my thoughts in how I believe today. Jesus was faithful in believing that all sins were going to be reconciled for all people... John wrote that all sins were not only for the believers who had been paid for but also for unbelievers, which people say people must "accept" in order for it to be true.

But it's true regardless if a person believes them to be true or not... even an atheist may not go to church, or believe their is a God but may have some sort of notion of within them the Spirit of Christ, but who knows really but Yahavah.

But a person who is a believer would just tell them, you're going to hell... they do not know the heart, and neither do I know your heart, nor does anyone know my heart here, but Yahavah most certainly does but people want to continue to be firm in their understanding "it's faith that makes us justified," and I do really agree with this being true, but that doesn't take away Jesus having justified the world in front of Yahavah, in order to get to him now today.

This sounds like Universalism. Unbelievers are bought/redeemed (2 Peter 2.1) by the work of Christ upon the Cross, but no unbeliever is "justified." Justified equals salvation. Once the unbeliever is saved/justified, then then is to move forward in sanctification.

Hello KUWN,

There is only one way to God, that is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has justified the sins of all being paid for, regardless if they believe or not. Now if they make their decision to follow and seek in faith Yahavah, the one whom created us all, that is up to them. What it seems like you are saying is that Jesus Christ's death does not matter, and he must die over and over and over and over.

That is what I get from a lot of people who say - you must accept his death... While I do believe in the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and return of the Lord Yeshua, as the truth and what makes us right with Yahavah and adopts as children, it doesn't nullify the fact of sins being paid for even a person rejects that portion on the behalf of Jesus, which I am not sure if that is the point that is missed or overlooked as many people here know their bible quite well, while some do not, and I don't know everything but have a grand idea which to many people may be wrong and that is okay with me.

The Lord Yeshua died on behalf of the world in order to reconcile mankind back to Yahavah just as it was in the Garden of Eden, and many choose to either be in the kingdom, or remain outside of the kingdom just as the temple which use to stand had people on the outside, gentiles on the outer courts, and the the inner court etceara.

I believe in these faithfully, without the need of others trying to correct me on them and I just share them openly as they are not private interpretations either, and will share with people openly if they curious about my beliefs in person just as much. My beliefs concede with the ending of Revelation 21, and 22, with people being outside of the kingdom in the after life, and people being on the inside.

 

[KUWN]

There is only one way to God, that is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has justified the sins of all being paid for, regardless if they believe or not.

You are misunderstanding the word justify. You say, " Jesus Christ has justified the sins of all being paid for" You don't justify sins. That is not the correct usage of the word justify. What is your definition of justify. Then, look at a Greek lexicon and see what it means. You are just using justify in the wrong sense of the word.

You say, "What it seems like you are saying is that Jesus Christ's death does not matter, and he must die over and over and over and over."
I don't believe that. Not sure what I said that provoked that.

And I do agree with you that all the sins have been paid for, even for the unbeliever. I don't run into many Christians that know that. So, thank you for your post.

 

[MatthewG]

@KUWN you’re welcome.

I want to share with everyone from Vines dictionary. Concerning Justification.

 

[KUWN]

@KUWN you’re welcome.

I want to share with everyone from Vines dictionary. Concerning Justification.

View attachment 51973View attachment 51974

I can't read the small print. What mistake did I make?

 

[MatthewG]

I can't read the small print. What mistake did I make?

No one said you have made a mistake. I was just wanting to share that from vines dictionary, if people go and seek for that information can determine wether or not I have made a mistake. I may have, but I do not feel wrong about what I have stated, shared, or have addressed though people may claim that I am wrong about what has been said. Just simply sharing with all people. The overall jist' again is that Jesus and his death on the cross, along with his resurrection, ascension, and (I believe) his return has allowed the overall victory of the Lord Yeshua to have been had. Allowing the World to be "made right" with Yahavah and him no longer being mad and angry with the people of the Earth though many people claim and say that Yahavah is mad and angry with people of the Earth now today, and desires for them to just be totally and completely wiped out.

 

[KUWN]

No one said you have made a mistake

Sorry, my mistake

 

[Lambano]

You don't justify sins.

C'mon, lotsa people justify their sins. Try it! It's fun!

 

[Lambano]

You don't justify sins.

Maybe forgiven or atoned for.

Could there ever be circumstances when sinning was the right thing to do?

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew 9:5-7

New King James Version

​

5 For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” 7 And he arose and departed to his house.

This is an occurrence founded in the bible. Which do you believe is easier to say? Even us as human beings have the ability to forgive the sins of others. That doesn't mean that there was not a reason to get the law involved concerning certain aspects of hurtful things which are caused to human beings. A murderer can be forgiven, though they end up with life in prison, even a pedophile can be forgiven though their interactions lead them to have to register as a sex offender... human beings who are enraged by these things, desire to murder the murderer, or even murder the pedophile. In the bible it is also stated that "You know a murderer has no life within them, and anyone who hates their brother or sister, is no different than a murderer."

Is man able to forgive sins? Yes. Yeshua, has paid for all sins for all people. This helps with Yahavah reonciling the world unto himself, in which he is no longer mad at people in what they have done, what matters at the end of cessation of human life, where was the heart at in that looking towards Yahavah, and seeking in faith. We ourselves will never know that answer. However, God will.

1 Samuel 16:7 “But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” King James Version (KJV)