"The word was a god"?

[ChristisGod]

Is he now?

He has always been YHWH. God is Immutable.

 

[PinSeeker]

Jesus is not God or part of some three Godhead figure, but the Son Of God Jehovah, there is only one God and his name is Jehovah.

So you deny that He's the Son of Man, even though He called Himself that ~ in exact words, which I know is really, really important to Jehovah's Witnesses, especially when it seems to fit their narrative. Either that or you refuse to answer the question, which would speak the same volumes. Well, okay, to each his own, right?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The torment that the eternally dead suffer in hell is inflicted neither physically nor mentally by no one, much less God. It is a mental anguish resulting from the knowledge that only they themselves are responsible for their circumstances. They have no hope of redemption or salvation, and they have no excuse, it is quite their own fault, as they were given exactly what they chose, even despite being given more than ample warning not to choose unwisely. This is their worm that will not die, and their torment, and it has no end.

All who are dead in their sin now will die the first (physical) death at the end of their days "under the sun," as the writer of Ecclesiastes puts it (as all of us will). But many will then be resurrected to judgment rather than eternal life (John 5:28-29), and will, as a result of the final Judgment (Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 25:41-46; Revelation 20) be sent away into outer darkness, where there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, (Matthew 25:30, a picture of the torment experienced there). This will be their metaphorically being "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15), where they will join the Devil and his minions placed there before the Judgment and experience with them this torment (see above) day and night forever (Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:14-15).

This is ~ or should be ~ a terrifying thought, but a future and eternal reality for some.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[PinSeeker]

I volunteer to agree to disagree concerning the so-called forms of Jesus as both God and a man...

Well of course you do. Sure.

...and yes it is a big deal...:cool:

Yes, it sure as hell is.

See what I did there? :)

Grace and peace to you, APAK.

 

[JohnPaul]

So you deny that He's the Son of Man, even though He called Himself that ~ in exact words, which I know is really, really important to Jehovah's Witnesses, especially when it seems to fit their narrative. Either that or you refuse to answer the question, which would speak the same volumes. Well, okay, to each his own, right?

Grace and peace to you.

I never read Christ referring to himself as God but the Son of God.

 

[PinSeeker]

I never read Christ referring to himself as God but the Son of God.

I'm... well aware of that, JohnPaul. That's unfortunate. But again... well, let me ask it this way (and again, it's rhetorical, really): How then, do you read Christ referring to Himself as the Son of Man? How is this ~ in your view ~ different to His referring to Himself as the Son of God?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[JohnPaul]

I'm... well aware of that, JohnPaul. That's unfortunate. But again... well, let me ask it this way (and again, it's rhetorical, really): How then, do you read Christ referring to Himself as the Son of Man? How is this ~ in your view ~ different to His referring to Himself as the Son of God?

Grace and peace to you.

That he was human at that point.

 

[PinSeeker]

That he was human at that point.

Good for you. Now... "Son of God." Be consistent, my friend. You are seemingly very close.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Pearl]

The reason I am being so stern on here is because, trying to make people believe that Jesus is not God is an attempt to drag them to hell.
Not me, I believe Jesus is God in the flesh.

I think it's mainly JWs that deny the deity of Jesus - both man and God. I think others might too but have those other groups altered the bible?

 

[Pearl]

Jesus ever said that he was God,

Thomas called him God and Jesus didn't rebuke him for it. Also Jesus is not the Father nor is he the Holy Spirit. We have one God with three separate and distinct persons. It isn't logical and to try to prove otherwise by using logic just doesn't work in spiritual matters.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think it's mainly JWs that deny the deity of Jesus - both man and God. I think others might too but have those other groups altered the bible?

JW are the only group that systematically denies Christ’s divinity.

 

[Pearl]

JW are the only group that systematically denies Christ’s divinity.

I think Unitarians do too. But they aren't as verbose about it as the JWs and as far as I know haven't altered the bible.

 

[JohnPaul]

JW are the only group that systematically denies Christ’s divinity.

I’m not a JW, and don’t deny he is Devine just not God, but his son,

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I’m not a JW, and don’t deny he is Devine just not God, but his son,

You’re not a group of people :)

I am curious how you define “God” and “divinity” to be different.

Note: of course the Father and Son are two different people. Christ doesn’t pray to Himself, for example.

 

[DavidB]

You’re not a group of people :)

I am curious how you define “God” and “divinity” to be different.

Note: of course the Father and Son are two different people. Christ doesn’t pray to Himself, for example.

James Moffatt's New Translation of the Bible and Smith-Goodspeed's An American Translation both say that the Word "was divine." The translations by Boehmer, Stage, and Menge all say the Word was "of divine being." John J. McKenzie, S. J., writes in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated `the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.'"

What does divine" mean? According to Webster's:
"1a: of or relating to God: proceeding from God...b: of or relating to a a god; having the nature of a god; like a god or like that of a god."

 

[Jane_Doe22]

James Moffatt's New Translation of the Bible and Smith-Goodspeed's An American Translation both say that the Word "was divine." The translations by Boehmer, Stage, and Menge all say the Word was "of divine being." John J. McKenzie, S. J., writes in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated `the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.'"

What does divine" mean? According to Webster's:
"1a: of or relating to God: proceeding from God...b: of or relating to a a god; having the nature of a god; like a god or like that of a god."

People can play translation games for about any interpretation of anything.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thomas called him God and Jesus didn't rebuke him for it.

Did it ever occur to the trinitarians here that calling someone a "god" doesn't always make them a deity. Being "divine" or having divine origins, doesn't make you "God"...it can make you "God-like", but there is only one Yahweh/Jehovah.

Have any of you done original language word studies because, if you had you would know that "theos" in Greek doesn't just refer to Jehovah. Satan is called "theos" in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Strongs has as its primary definition of "theos"....."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities." So it seems to me that all the huffing and puffing about Jesus being called "theos" is just based on ignorance of the Greek meaning of the word. The NT was written in Greek, not English. Please expand your knowledge.

It doesn't mean that Jesus was Jehovah, but that he was "with Jehovah" in heaven as a glorious spirit being before being "sent" on his earthly mission. This is what the scriptures teach.

Jesus, in answering the Pharisees who were trying to pin a charge of blasphemy on him, used this word for the human judges in Israel, who were mere mortal humans, but with divine authority to carry out their assignment. (John 10:31-36) Jesus too was divinely authorized by the God who "sent" him. Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God" without including himself. (John 17:3)
He was called "God's holy servant" (Acts 4:27) So...how can God be his own servant?

Also Jesus is not the Father nor is he the Holy Spirit. We have one God with three separate and distinct persons. It isn't logical and to try to prove otherwise by using logic just doesn't work in spiritual matters.

It isn't logical...period. We are made in God's image...correct? If there are three personalities in one body, we would call that "Multiple Personality Disorder".....if it was a consequence of being made in God's image that we could have multiple personalities, then it would not be called a disorder....would it? It only comes about as the result of early childhood trauma. Its an illness of a traumatized mind.....God is never once called "three" because he isn't.
Deuteronomy 6:4...Jewish Tanakh....
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one." דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד:"
Who is "the" Lord mentioned twice in that one verse....? Yahweh.....יְהֹוָ֥ה
And how many was Yahweh?
At the time when that was written, "Jesus the Christ" did not yet exist.

If you have "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit"....that is three gods. Not three personalities. And if we can find only one of those designations ("God the Father") in the Bible, who invented the other two? I think I know, but do you?

 

[JohnPaul]

Did it ever occur to the trinitarians here that calling someone a "god" doesn't always make them a deity. Being "divine" or having divine origins, doesn't make you "God"...it can make you "God-like", but there is only one Yahweh/Jehovah.

Have any of you done original language word studies because, if you had you would know that "theos" in Greek doesn't just refer to Jehovah. Satan is called "theos" in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Strongs has as its primary definition of "theos"....."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities." So it seems to me that all the huffing and puffing about Jesus being called "theos" is just based on ignorance of the Greek meaning of the word. The NT was written in Greek, not English. Please expand your knowledge.

It doesn't mean that Jesus was Jehovah, but that he was "with Jehovah" in heaven as a glorious spirit being before being "sent" on his earthly mission. This is what the scriptures teach.

Jesus, in answering the Pharisees who were trying to pin a charge of blasphemy on him, used this word for the human judges in Israel, who were mere mortal humans, but with divine authority to carry out their assignment. (John 10:31-36) Jesus too was divinely authorized by the God who "sent" him. Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God" without including himself. (John 17:3)
He was called "God's holy servant" (Acts 4:27) So...how can God be his own servant?


It isn't logical...period. We are made in God's image...correct? If there are three personalities in one body, we would call that "Multiple Personality Disorder".....if it was a consequence of being made in God's image that we could have multiple personalities, then it would not be called a disorder....would it? It only comes about as the result of early childhood trauma. Its an illness of a traumatized mind.....God is never once called "three" because he isn't.
Deuteronomy 6:4...Jewish Tanakh....
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one." דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד:"
Who is "the" Lord mentioned twice in that one verse....? Yahweh.....יְהֹוָ֥ה
And how many was Yahweh?
At the time when that was written, "Jesus the Christ" did not yet exist.

If you have "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit"....that is three gods. Not three personalities. And if we can find only one of those designations ("God the Father") in the Bible, who invented the other two? I think I know, but do you?

Catholicism invented the other two, and believing in a Godhead of three entities is called polytheism, the worship of multiple Gods.

 

[JohnPaul]

You’re not a group of people :)

I am curious how you define “God” and “divinity” to be different.

Note: of course the Father and Son are two different people. Christ doesn’t pray to Himself, for example.

Christ is divine as he is the Son of God Jehovah, and God Jehovah is divine because he is the creator of all things, including Christ.

 

[JohnPaul]

Good for you. Now... "Son of God." Be consistent, my friend. You are seemingly very close.

Grace and peace to you.

Son of God, that Christ is the Son of God Jehovah, the first created by God before anyone or anything else, who came to Earth through the blessed mother to save those that believe in him as God's only begotten Son.