The "We" in Ephesians

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CadyandZoe

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Were they placed in Christ before the foundation of the world, or at the moment of believing in Christ Jesus?
Both. The former looks at the situation from the perspective of the transcendental, the latter from the perspective of history.
He might gather together in one = to sum up (literally: "head up"). Greek. anakephalaioomai. See Rom_13:9. The verb in this place being in Mid. voice is reflexive, implying "for Himself" (compare verses: Eph_1:5, Eph_1:9).

The compounded preposition ἀνά signifies again, pointing back to a previous condition where no separation existed. All things. All created beings and things; not limited to intelligent beings. Compare Rom_8:21; 1Co_15:28.


J.
If Paul is discussing spiritual blessings for all people, then "ta panta" is understood as encompassing "all people" in this context. Therefore, Paul's use of the terms "heavens" and "earth" should be interpreted symbolically.

Paul may be getting his terminology from God's promise to Abraham as recorded in Genesis 15:5. If so, then "the heavens" may represent the Gentile peoples, who are situated beyond the visible horizon towards the heavens. The term "earth" in both Hebrew and Greek can also be translated as "land." Therefore, Paul's comparison distinguishes between the Gentiles who are situated beyond the visible horizon, towards the heavens, and the Jewish people who are situated on the land.

Something to consider?
 

MatthewG

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To all the audience that has come by.

I am not an Israel onlyist, so while I find there are many great spiritual things to behold within the letters Paul wrote, it just make sense to consider to real live, breathing audience, and Pauls own history and where he had come from.

Cause when it does come down to it the bible was never "directly written to us." Though it is "for us" and our spiritual growth into maturity in Christ.

^_^ All the best.
 

IronMaiden

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Ephesians 1:11


Is this speaking of the Jewish people? When Paul stated "we"? Shortly after he starts using "you." Wouldn't that be for the Gentiles?
Hi, Matthew…. He’s speaking to the saints (Elect) in Ephesus:

Ephesians 1:1-5 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
 

MatthewG

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Hi, Matthew…. He’s speaking to the saints (Elect) in Ephesus:

Ephesians 1:1-5 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Hello, thank you for sharing.


While today we may not be predestined. We have a choice. To seek out God or not. May the spirit of Yahavah guide our hearts towards him and his light, and to the one whom he had sent for sure!

Just in general: I like to make bible topics, though sometimes the things I may share or write about may disturb some people. In the end it's for all individuals to look towards the Son whom is our righteousness, redemption, wisdom, and the one whom is faithful and because of his faith, and his love for God and love for others, he makes us right with Yahavah/God. Continue to seek in faith, grow in your understanding in scripture if one wants to but if people do not want to do so that is okay too. It's highly important for us to encourage one another to keep faith and looking to the one whom saves and redeems.
 
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IronMaiden

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In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
having believed = Elect

I would think this refers to all of us who believe today.
 
J

Johann

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If Paul is discussing spiritual blessings for all people, then "ta panta" is understood as encompassing "all people" in this context. Therefore, Paul's use of the terms "heavens" and "earth" should be interpreted symbolically.

Paul may be getting his terminology from God's promise to Abraham as recorded in Genesis 15:5. If so, then "the heavens" may represent the Gentile peoples, who are situated beyond the visible horizon towards the heavens. The term "earth" in both Hebrew and Greek can also be translated as "land." Therefore, Paul's comparison distinguishes between the Gentiles who are situated beyond the visible horizon, towards the heavens, and the Jewish people who are situated on the land.
To reconcile (ἀποκαταλλάξαι)
Only here, Col_1:21, and Eph_2:16. The connection is: it was the good pleasure of the Father (Col_1:19) to reconcile. The compounded preposition ἀπό gives the force of back, hinting at restoration to a primal unity. So, in Eph_2:12-16, it occurs as in Col_1:21, in connection with ἀπηλλοτριωμένοι alienated, as if they had not always been strangers. See on Eph_2:12. Others explain to reconcile wholly. For the verb καταλλάσσω to reconcile, see on Rom_5:10.
All things (τὰ πάντα)

Must be taken in the same sense as in Col_1:16, Col_1:17, Col_1:18, the whole universe, material and spiritual. The arrangement of clauses adopted by Rev. is simpler.

Col_1:20 "and through Him to reconcile" The term (cf. Col_1:22) meant "to change from hostility to peace" especially between persons. Sin has caused a separation between the creator and the created. God acted in Christ to restore the fellowship (cf. Rom_5:18-19). This is a double compound word (apokatallassô) for theological emphasis (cf. Col_1:22). Paul used the same word in Eph_2:16 and the same root in 2Co_5:18-20.

"all things" This refers to all creation, visible and invisible (cf. Rom_8:18 ff; 1Co_15:27-28; Eph_1:22-23).


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Think I will stay with the text--Plural Neuter-with the Definite Article.

Thanks.

J.
 
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MatthewG

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having believed = Elect

I would think this refers to all of us who believe today.

I don't believe so. However, that doesn't mean that we aren't given the holy spirit, and find salvation in and through the Gospel narrative.


People need to realize though just because I don't believe so that elect pertains to us today, doesn't mean we don't find salvation in and through Jesus. The reason I say no, is because there was an election of people worked through in that day in age which were the holy, blameless, spotless bride which Jesus had took when he returned in that day in age to take them with him into the Heavenly Kingdom.


A lot of people like to start fighting or ra, ra, ra. People shouldn't be like this but so many times do people start bickering and fighting, you see it so much over the trinity, or anything that disturbs a persons faith.
 
J

Johann

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C. Ephesians was written primarily to Gentiles, Eph_2:1; Eph_4:17, whom Paul had not personally met, Eph_1:15; Eph_3:2. The churches in the Lycus River Valley (Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colossae) were started, not by Paul, but by Epaphras (Col_1:7; Col_4:12; Phm_1:23).

If You never met some people it seems you would want to fill them in on what’s up.
If I want to have a conversation with you, I will let you know, we are grown adults here with, hopefully, sober minds and habits.

J.
 

MatthewG

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If I want to have a conversation with you, I will let you know, we are grown adults here with, hopefully, sober minds and habits.

J.

Okay man. I was just sharing off what you copy and pasted.
 

Lambano

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I think it means all those who believe in Him.


Matthew has proposed an alternate way to read "in Christ". As in "all Israel's purpose is summed up in Christ". That is a valid English interpretation, though I don't know if it is in Greek. It is also a theological concept I've run across before and I think it is within the boundaries of orthodoxy.
 

MatthewG

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I don’t understand you. You’re beyond me, dude.
 

MatthewG

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Matthew has proposed an alternate way to read "in Christ". As in "all Israel's purpose is summed up in Christ". That is a valid English interpretation, though I don't know if it is in Greek. It is also a theological concept I've run across before and I think it is within the boundaries of orthodoxy.
Appreciate that feedback! It means a lot, Lambano.
 
J

Johann

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Matthew has proposed an alternate way to read "in Christ". As in "all Israel's purpose is summed up in Christ". That is a valid English interpretation, though I don't know if it is in Greek. It is also a theological concept I've run across before and I think it is within the boundaries of orthodoxy.
I propose that this is an incorrect interpretation of the text.

Col 1:20 and καὶ by δι’ Him αὐτοῦ to reconcile ἀποκαταλλάξαι - τὰ all things πάντα to εἰς Himself, αὐτόν, having made peace εἰρηνοποιήσας by διὰ the τοῦ blood αἵματος of τοῦ His αὐτοῦ, cross σταυροῦ through δι’ Him, αὐτοῦ whether εἴτε the things τὰ on ἐπὶ the τῆς earth γῆς or εἴτε the things τὰ in ἐν the τοῖς heavens. οὐρανοῖς.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who through Christ has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realm.
Eph 1:4 Through Him He picked us out before the creation of the world, to be consecrated and above reproach in His sight in love.
Eph 1:5 He foreordained us to become His sons by adoption through Christ Jesus, to carry out the happy choice of His will,
Eph 1:6 so that we might praise the splendid favor which He has shown us in His beloved Son.
Eph 1:7 It is through union with Him that we have redemption by His blood and the forgiveness of our shortcomings, in accordance with the generosity of His unmerited favor
Eph 1:8 which He lavished upon us. Through perfect wisdom and spiritual insight
Eph 1:9 He has made known to us the secret of His will, which is in accordance with His purpose which He planned in Christ,
Eph 1:10 so that, at the coming of the climax of the ages, everything in heaven and on earth should be unified through Christ,
Eph 1:11 in union with whom we were made God's portion, since we had been foreordained in accordance with the purpose of Him who in everything carries out the plan of His will,
Eph 1:12 that we who had first put our hope in Christ might praise His glory.
Eph 1:13 You too, as you have heard the message of the truth, the good news that means your salvation, and as you have trusted in Him too, have been stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the first installment of our inheritance, so that we may finally come into full possession of the prize of redemption, and praise His glory for it.

The immediate context of key passages, especially in Ephesians 1:10 and Romans 9–11, suggests that the idea of "all Israel's purpose being summed up in Christ" is an oversimplification. Instead, it is more accurate to say that Christ fulfills Israel’s covenantal promises while simultaneously expanding their scope to include the Gentiles, thereby achieving a cosmic unity in Christ that transcends Israel’s national purpose.

J.
 
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MatthewG

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Thank you to all the differing views and submissions.

I personally see that today we live autonomously, and everyone has a choice just as Adam and Eve did.

When it came to Yahavah, his choice was moving with Abram, and bringing forth not necessarily the Kingdom of Israel, itself but one whom would come to establish the heavenly Israel which would be completed by the Lord Jesus.

The Apostles all of them, seen and witness the resurrection of Yeshua. They were all born under the law, and they were the ones whom were predestined by this nature of Gods will, in order to bring forth the ability to have Israel’s sins paid for, and the Gentiles paid for. In order for all of humanity to be restored. We must not forget that God has reconciled the world unto himself through Christ. Jesus having died on the cross, and giving up his life, fulfilling all of the Old Testament by loving God and loving others, and his Father rising him up again by the Holy Spirit of the Father, and trusting in faith this happened, salvation is delivered not only to the Jewish people, but Gentiles and that is a beautiful message.

The need to love is founded in the letter here, (agape) 19 times and that is something to consider just as well.
 

MatthewG

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Having a copy of the Young’s Literal Translation, people are welcome to take a look at a English to Greek translation which doesn’t really play around with the wording.

IMG_1911.jpeg
 
J

Johann

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When it came to Yahavah, his choice was moving with Abram, and bringing forth not necessarily the Kingdom of Israel, itself but one whom would come to establish the heavenly Israel which would be completed by the Lord Jesus.

The Apostles all of them, seen and witness the resurrection of Yeshua. They were all born under the law, and they were the ones whom were predestined by this nature of Gods will, in order to bring forth the ability to have Israel’s sins paid for, and the Gentiles paid for. In order for all of humanity to be restored. We must not forget that God has reconciled the world unto himself through Christ. Jesus having died on the cross, and giving up his life, fulfilling all of the Old Testament by loving God and loving others, and his Father rising him up again by the Holy Spirit of the Father, and trusting in faith this happened, salvation is delivered not only to the Jewish people, but Gentiles and that is a beautiful message.

Having a copy of the Young’s Literal Translation, people are welcome to take a look at a English to Greek translation which doesn’t really play around with the wording.

View attachment 57038
READ Ephesians 1:1

Ephesians 1:1 Who are the recipients in general terms? Where are they? (Did you see their two "addresses"?)

Saints ( hagios - set apart from the world and unto God for His use)

At Ephesus - some modern manuscripts delete this "address" which is support for this being a circular letter and might have gone to the 7 churches in Asia

Ray Stedman - The letter is commonly called "The Epistle to the Ephesians," but, as a footnote in the Revised Standard Version points out, this is not found in many of the ancient manuscripts. Most have just a blank for the address of these saints. Many scholars, therefore, feel that this is a circular letter which was written to many churches, probably those in the region of Ephesus. Some think it may have been addressed to the very churches to which Jesus had John address the letters in the book of Revelation, beginning with Ephesus and ending with Laodicea. (God at Work)

Faithful in Christ Jesus (they were saints who were truly acting saintly!)

Note: They had two "addresses" an earthly one, in Ephesus, and a heavenly one, in Christ Jesus. In Christ or In Him occurs 19x in Ephesians and 17 of those are the first 3 chapters - doctrine (our wealth).

READ Ephesians 1:13-15

Ephesians 1:13 How had the Ephesians become saints?

1) Listened to the message of truth = Gospel of salvation

2) Believed (cf Ro 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of Christ)

3) Sealed in Him (Christ) with the Holy Spirit of promise

Note: As background remember that Paul had taught in Ephesus about 3-5 years earlier (this is an approximation). The point is that the Ephesian believers were generally "young" in the faith. And yet did Paul consider this profoundly doctrinal treatise to be "too deep" for them? Who should be studying Ephesians in the modern church?)

As as aside Dr John MacArthur credits the book of Ephesians which he preached at the beginning of his ministry as the pivotal teaching God used to grow the saints into a Biblically sound church. He writes "Those months that we spent studying Ephesians eight years ago – seven or eight years ago – were the months that formed the character of Grace Church in terms of its present dimensions of ministry." (Introduction to Ephesians)

Pastor Ray Stedman - I hope that, as we begin this doctrinal portion of Ephesians, your heart will be anticipating tremendous truth. I would like to urge you to read this letter through once a week during the time that we are engaged in studying these first three chapters. Read it through in various versions, and in different ways. Read it through at one sitting the first week, and then the next week take a chapter a day. Other weeks read it in some of the paraphrases. Let this truth come to you afresh in new and different language. I can guarantee that if you will do this faithfully until we finish our study you will never be the same person again. This truth has the power to change you, and it will! I think that, of all Paul's letters, the letter to the Romans and this one to Ephesians have affected me most profoundly. Both are attempts at a systematic and rather exhaustive setting forth of the whole Christian view of life and of the world.

Remember what we learned in ACTS 19 - How did they demonstrate the reality of their conversion? burned magic books (ceased practicing magic = their works demonstrated the faith was genuine. Faith alone saves, but the faith that truly saves is never alone.

Ephesians 1:15 What do we learn about the saints in Ephesus?

Paul "having heard" - Where is Paul (we'll discuss later - he is in Rome, in prison) -

Paul implies others had told him -
This indicates they were "living epistles" - their transformed lives were evident to others.
(But how could Paul have known since he was in prison? Acts 28:30 says Paul was "welcoming all who came to him" so undoubtedly he had heard good reports.)

What had Paul heard about the saints at Ephesus?

1) Their faith in the Lord Jesus

2) Their love for all the saints

It is interesting that some 30-35 years later John wrote Jesus' scathing rebuke directed at the church at Ephesus "I have this against you, that you have left your first love"! Rev 2:4+

SUMMARIZE WHAT LEARNED SO FAR ABOUT THE RECIPIENTS:

Where - at Ephesus (physical address); in Christ Jesus (spiritual address)
Who - saints
What - faithful (Why?) IN Christ Jesus
READ Ephesians 2:1-3

Ephesians 2:1-2 What does Paul remind the readers they were prior to listening to and believing the Gospel?

Dead in trespasses and sins ("were dead" = past tense)

How did they walk ( walk = live, conduct themselves in everyday life)?

Formerly walked according to…

World - course of this world (the way the lost world thinks and does things)
Devil - according to the prince of the power of the air
Flesh - Eph 2:3 ("we") lusts of the flesh
Note these are every believers 3 inveterate mortal enemies - the world, the flesh and the devil
READ Ephesians 2:11-18

Ephesians 2:11-12 How does Paul specifically identify his readers? What was their spiritual status when they were dead in their trespasses and sins?

They were Gentiles ~ "uncircumcision" ("Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision”")

Formerly…(note this is a great place to practice marking a list on your observation worksheet)

GENTILES
"UNCIRCUMCISION"
Separate from Christ
Excluded from the commonwealth (CITIZENSHIP) of Israel
Strangers to the covenants of promise
Having no hope (OUR HOPE = HOPE SURE, NOT HOPE SO -- THEY HAD NO HOPE SURE!)
Without God in the world
Ephesians 2:13 What kind of wording is "but now?" Contrast - so what is Paul contrasting.

Formerly far off <BUT NOW> brought near
HOW? Brought near by the blood of Christ (the Cross)
Ephesians 2:14-16 What is the key phrase? Clue what does Paul state 3 times about Gentile and Jewish believers?

In each verse he mentions ONE: Spiritual Math - 1 + 1 = 1
Eph 2:14 Who made both groups into ONE WHAT WAS THE RESULT? broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
Eph 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into ONE new man, thus establishing peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile them both in ONE body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
(METAPHOR OF A BODY = CHURCH = NOT AN ORGANIZATION BUT AN ORGANISM - Eph 1:22-23)
Ephesians 2:17 What did the preaching of Christ accomplish for those "far away" (Gentiles) and those who "were near" (Jews)?

What were they (Gentiles) "far away" from?
Peace (with God)
WHAT OTHER KEY WORD DO YOU SEE? - PEACE KEY WORD - 4X in vv 14-17


J.
 
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