The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[Behold]

I told you who keeps you saved: YOU.

When you say, and believe that YOU keep yourself saved, then you are denying the Savior.

:So, if you died on the Cross for your own sin, then you are absolutely correct,when you say that YOURSELF is your Savior, = who "keeps your saved".

Now, go ahead and keep letting the members see what you believe about YOUR SALVATION< so that they can comprehend what it means for a person to have become a "self saver", who has no FAITH IN CHRIST, TO Keep them saved.

See, when you give YOURSELF Credit, to "stay saved" or "YOU keep yourself saved" then you have taken the Place of Jesus, as YOUR Savior.

This is referred to as SELF Righteousness, and that is YOUR FAITH, exposed.

 

[GodsGrace]

When you say, and believe that YOU keep yourself saved, then you are denying the Savior.

:So, if you died on the Cross for your own sin, then you are absolutely correct,when you say that YOURSELF is your Savior, = who "keeps your saved".

Now, go ahead and keep letting the members see what you believe about YOUR SALVATION< so that they can comprehend what it means for a person to have become a "self saver", who has no FAITH IN CHRIST, TO Keep them saved.

See, when you give YOURSELF Credit, to "stay saved" or "YOU keep yourself saved" then you have taken the Place of Jesus, as YOUR Savior.

This is referred to as SELF Righteousness, and that is YOUR FAITH, exposed.

What nonsense.
There is only one Savior.
He died for you.
Now do something for Him.
Obey Him, as He instructed.

John 14:15
15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

James 1:22
22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Luke 6:46
46“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

John 14:23a
23Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word,

Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father

Luke 11:28
28But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

2 John 1:6a
6And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;

Romans 12:1
1I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.


There's more but I doubt it'll do any good to post scripture----straight from the NT.
Because some deny that obedience is necessary for salvation.
If a person does not obey God...he is not God's friend.

 

[Behold]

There is only one Savior.

And you just told me and this forum that the "one savior" is : YOU.

You told us that YOU are saving you.
YOU are keeping yourself saved.

Did you forget already?
Want top deny that, after you wrote it?

So, do not try to pretend that is "trusting in Christ"......... as being dishonest that way, @GodsGrace, on a PUBLIC forum, is not a good idea to keep doing.

You should stop doing that, asap.

 

[GodsGrace]

I neither see that this authority was ever given to anyone else, nor that the right to confer it was given to anyone, so I have no basis to suppose it was.

I think many people have an objection to God handing this over to men. But I'm in the habit of taking the Bible seriously, even if it seems outside my understanding. Sure, some things are allegory and such, but those are stated, and defined. And if we make sure we're harmonizing with the plain stuff, we'll stay on the right path.

This passage is plainly stated, it harmonizes, only, some people think, "it can't mean that!"

Concerning apostolic succession, that is, that an apostle can confer his office of apostleship to someone else, neither see this taught in Scripture, nor do I see it practiced. The apostles appointed deacons, and elders, and overseers. They appointed those who would appoint overseers. I can't think of any appointing apostles.

There are no more Apostles.
But when they died, they passed on what they knew to the next generation.
There was laying on of hands...
Hebrews 6:1-2 speaks of the laying on of hands.
This was continued and is still in practice today.

So just as Jesus blessed the Apostles, did lay hands on them....
wouldn't this continue in the church?

Paul said this to Timothy...he was not an Apostle:
“Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands” (1 Timothy 2:16).

If pastors and priests can exorcise demons, heal the sick, etc......
wouldn't they have to be blessed in this capacity by the Holy Spirit and the laying on of hands?

I found this helpful:

LAYING ON OF HANDS: What St. Paul calls an “elementary principle” of Christianity—neglected, forgotten, or rejected by so many Christians today.

Many may have heard or read of the “laying on of hands,” but how many Christians understand its significance? St. Paul, in listing out what he called the “elementary principles of…

johnbelovedhabib.wordpress.com

I'm not of the Orthodox church...it just makes sense to me.

I do read, however, that Jesus gave apostles to the church. So this seems clear to me. People don't appoint apostles, in the sense of what it meant at that time. Currently we call our apostles, that we send out, missionaries.

Much love!

OK

 

[Behold]

What nonsense.
There is only one Savior.

Look at it again.

I asked you "Who Keeps you saved".

You told us....>>"you do".

This means you are your own Savior, who is Keeping yourself saved, in your mind......that is.

See it?

Here is your Theology..

"Jesus started my salvation (with water)....., and now Im doing the rest, = im keeping myself saved".

See that?

That is broken faith., because, when you only BELIEVE that Jesus started your salvation, then you have become a person who does not TRUST IN CHRIST, to Keep you saved, and THAT, is broken faith.
Its actually faith in SELF........vs, faith in Christ.

Understand READER ??

See, REAL FAITH in Jesus, is....>>"I trust you Lord to save me and keep me saved".

You do not, and you have stated it as ...YOU keep you saved.. @GodsGrace .

Let me show you how wrong is that thinking, is that wrong faith.

WHEN you BELIEVE that you keep you saved.. is no different the believing that you saved yourself to begin with....

And here is the Truth...
You can't save yourself and you can't keep yourself saved, as they are the SAME THING., and once you see this, then your Broken FAITH that is misplaced in YOURSELF, will be able to actually TRUST in CHRIST, according to REAL FAITH.

 

[GodsGrace]

And you just told me and this forum that the "one savior" is : YOU.

You told us that YOU are saving you.
YOU are keeping yourself saved.

Did you forget already?
Want top deny that, after you wrote it?

So, do not try to pretend that is "trusting in Christ"......... as being dishonest that way, @GodsGrace, on a PUBLIC forum, is not a good idea to keep doing.

You should stop doing that, asap.

Calm down Behold.

You could go back and reread my post no. 1253 which you're referencing above.
Anyone on this thread can do the same.

I'll repeat:
Jesus died to forgive YOUR SIN DEBT.
Jesus died to BUY YOU BACK FROM THE EVIL ONE.
I'm sure you've studied the different atonement theories...
the above would be the Christus Victor Theory and the Ransom Theory.

So now a person is free to accept some free gifts from God:
SALVATION
GRACE
FAITH
See Ephesians 2:8

So now a person is saved and is made righteous - right with God - and become a child of God.
If that person sins, he repents of that sin, asks forgiveness, and God is just and will forgive him.
See 1 John chapters 1 and 2

If it's necessary to ask forgiveness for a sin and be forgiven of it
IT MEANS WE ARE PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT SIN.

I gave you verses regarding our personal responsibility for sin.

Now, you could not believe the above....
but it's what Christianity teaches.
No need to get upset with me if you feel that you can sin and, perhaps, not even ask for forgiveness.
Yes, there are those such as yourself...
they cheapen the grace of God ...
it's called easy believism in some circles....
BELIEF ONLY
FAITH ONLY

No. The NT does not teach this.
Jesus, Paul and all the other writers exhort us TO OBEY.
Obey what?
According to you obedience is not necessary and one could still be saved.

A very dangerous teaching.
The opposite of what Jesus taught....

Luke 9:23
23And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Luke 6:46
46“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

 

[GodsGrace]

Look at it again.

I asked you "Who Keeps you saved".

You told us....>>"you do".

This means you are your own Savior, who is Keeping yourself saved, in your mind......that is.

See it?

Here is your Theology..

"Jesus started my salvation (with water)....., and now Im doing the rest, = im keeping myself saved".

See that?

That is broken faith., because, when you only BELIEVE that Jesus started your salvation, then you have become a person who does not TRUST IN CHRIST, to Keep you saved, and THAT, is broken faith.
Its actually faith in SELF........vs, faith in Christ.

Understand READER ??

See, REAL FAITH in Jesus, is....>>"I trust you Lord to save me and keep me saved".

You do not, and you have stated it as ...YOU keep you saved.. @GodsGrace .

Let me show you how wrong is that thinking, is that wrong faith.

WHEN you BELIEVE that you keep you saved.. is no different the believing that you saved yourself to begin with....

And here is the Truth...
You can't save yourself and you can't keep yourself saved, as they are the SAME THING., and once you see this, then your Broken FAITH that is misplaced in YOURSELF, will be able to actually TRUST in CHRIST, according to REAL FAITH.

Post some scripture that supports your position.
I've posted a lot and have lots more.

Your logic is flawed.
JESUS SAVES US.

But we MUST obey God in order to REMAIN SAVED.

The NT teaches that he that endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13

GOD DEMANDS that you OBEY HIM.

All this other stuff you post is nonsense and can be damaging to someone's soul.

 

[Behold]

Post some scripture that supports your position.
I've posted a lot and have lots more.

Jesus is Salvation.

Not "you keeping yourself saved".

Understand?

"Christ IN YOU", is why you stay Saved.

Understand?

Being born again "IN CHRIST".... as "one with God", is why you "stay saved"...

Understand?

No you dont..

And please do not waste our time with 1 John 1:9, nonsense.

Instead, go to Hebrews 6:1,

Hebrews 6:1
Hebrews 6:1

and = see yourself clearly as that verse absolutely defines your issue.....according to Paul...., and perhaps that will allow you to understand what is going on with your "mental" Christianity, that causes you to wrongly BELIEVE that you are responsible for keeping yourself saved. @GodsGrace ... as if God's Son's Sacrifice is not ENOUGH.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus is Salvation.

Not "you keeping yourself saved".

Understand?

"Christ IN YOU", is why you stay Saved.

Understand?

Being born again "IN CHRIST".... as "one with God", is why you "stay saved"...

Understand?

No you dont..

And please do not waste our time with 1 John 1:9, nonsense.

Instead, go to Hebrews 6:1,

Hebrews 6:1
Hebrews 6:1

and = see yourself clearly as that verse absolutely defines your issue.....according to Paul...., and perhaps that will allow you to understand what is going on with your "mental" Christianity, that causes you to wrongly BELIEVE that you are responsible for keeping yourself saved. @GodsGrace ... as if God's Son's Sacrifice is not ENOUGH.

1 John 1:9 is nonsense?
But Hebrews 6:1 is OK?

So you pick and choose the verses you like and discard the rest?

Please exegete Hebrews 6:1 because I'll tell you this:
The NT does NOT conflict its doctrine.

I'll wait for your reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus is Salvation.

Not "you keeping yourself saved".

Understand?

"Christ IN YOU", is why you stay Saved.

Understand?

Being born again "IN CHRIST".... as "one with God", is why you "stay saved"...

Understand?

No you dont..

And please do not waste our time with 1 John 1:9, nonsense.

Instead, go to Hebrews 6:1,

Hebrews 6:1
Hebrews 6:1

and = see yourself clearly as that verse absolutely defines your issue.....according to Paul...., and perhaps that will allow you to understand what is going on with your "mental" Christianity, that causes you to wrongly BELIEVE that you are responsible for keeping yourself saved. @GodsGrace ... as if God's Son's Sacrifice is not ENOUGH.

PS
CHRIST IN ME

Correct.
We must abide in Christ in order to be saved.
John 15:5

Christ in us is what gives us THE HELP, THE STRENGTH to obey God and live a life worthy of Him.
Or have you become reformed and believe you're a robot that God is commandeering?

 

[Behold]

As a Baptist minister of 50 years stated:
''If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the reality of which escapes us all''

Your minister is 50 yrs out of touch with the correct understanding of the Blood Atonement.

Let me show you why.

Notice this verse..

"where there is no LAW, there is no Sin, (no Transgression)"..

Why?
Because you can't transgress the Law, if it does not exist against you.

See that Reader?

Notice this....

The born again are "NOT UNDER THE LAW, but under Grace"..

See that?

The Born again exist .... = "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".

This is why 2 Corinthians 5:19 and Romans 4:8, are in the New Testament.

Welcome to : SALVATION

Its a "GIFT" you dont earn and can't lose.

 

[uncle silas]

Your minister is 50 yrs out of touch with the correct understanding of the Blood Atonement.

Let me show you why.

Notice this verse..

"where there is no LAW, there is no Sin, (no Transgression)"..

Why?
Because you can't transgress the Law, if it does not exist against you.

See that Reader?

Notice this....

The born again are "NOT UNDER THE LAW, but under Grace"..

See that?

The Born again exist .... = "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".

This is why 2 Corinthians 5:19 and Romans 4:8, are in the New Testament.

Welcome to : SALVATION

Its a "GIFT" you dont earn and can't lose.

Do we then make void the law by faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the law Rom3:31

Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14

The minister understood the truth, you don't

 

[Lizbeth]

I neither see that this authority was ever given to anyone else, nor that the right to confer it was given to anyone, so I have no basis to suppose it was.

I think many people have an objection to God handing this over to men. But I'm in the habit of taking the Bible seriously, even if it seems outside my understanding. Sure, some things are allegory and such, but those are stated, and defined. And if we make sure we're harmonizing with the plain stuff, we'll stay on the right path.

This passage is plainly stated, it harmonizes, only, some people think, "it can't mean that!"

Concerning apostolic succession, that is, that an apostle can confer his office of apostleship to someone else, neither see this taught in Scripture, nor do I see it practiced. The apostles appointed deacons, and elders, and overseers. They appointed those who would appoint overseers. I can't think of any appointing apostles.

I do read, however, that Jesus gave apostles to the church. So this seems clear to me. People don't appoint apostles, in the sense of what it meant at that time. Currently we call our apostles, that we send out, missionaries.

Much love!

Brother, to my understanding, I believe Jesus was delegating His authority and power to the church in general, because we are all told to forgive our enemies. If we forgive those who trespass against us God will forgive them from heaven, meaning they will not suffer consequences in this life for that particular trespass. It's why we need to pray for our enemies, that they not suffer consequences. I have two or three times seen people be quite quickly judged by God when I have either forgotten or just didn't want to forgive and pray for them...and that is how He taught me this. And for example, we see in the verse that says to call for elders to pray for and anoint with oil the one who is sick and if that one had sinned their sin will be forgiven and they will be healed. But also it is for church leadership in general, at times when it may be necessary to impose church discipline.

Being given power and authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and cast out devils and heal I believe is likewise given to the church in general and not only to apostles. And it is generally according to one's gifts and callings, though the Lord may occasionally use someone apart from their usual gift.

 

[GodsGrace]

Brother, to my understanding, I believe Jesus was delegating His authority and power to the church in general, because we are all told to forgive our enemies. If we forgive those who trespass against us God will forgive them from heaven, meaning they will not suffer consequences in this life for that particular trespass. It's why we need to pray for our enemies, that they not suffer consequences. I have two or three times seen people be quite quickly judged by God when I have either forgotten or just didn't want to forgive and pray for them...and that is how He taught me this. And for example, we see in the verse that says to call for elders to pray for and anoint with oil the one who is sick and if that one had sinned their sin will be forgiven and they will be healed. But also it is for church leadership in general, at times when it may be necessary to impose church discipline.

Being given power and authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and cast out devils and heal I believe is likewise given to the church in general and not only to apostles. And it is generally according to one's gifts and callings, though the Lord may occasionally use someone apart from their usual gift.

Hi Lizbeth....
Let's think this through, and I mean think --- I'm not sure of what lies ahead on this road.
If Jesus gave authority to the entire church (we're discussing John 20:23) then does this mean
we're supposed to be going to confession as the CC teaches?

John 20:23
21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

 

[Lizbeth]

Hi Lizbeth....
Let's think this through, and I mean think --- I'm not sure of what lies ahead on this road.
If Jesus gave authority to the entire church (we're discussing John 20:23) then does this mean
we're supposed to be going to confession as the CC teaches?

John 20:23
21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

That road leads to the simplicity of Christ, I believe. And I said to the church in general. It doesn't mean those who are not in leadership can impose church discipline. We are to be in submission to those the Lord has placed over us in the church.....greater gifts....apostles, prophets, pastors (elders), evangelists and teachers. How many true apostles have you or I met? If these things were only for apostles there would be precious little church discipline or forgiving going on, or any demonstration of God's power for that matter.

The bible simply says to confess your faults one to another, and to pray for one another. Like I'm sure most of us have talked to other believers, people we know and trust, informally about whatever problems we are dealing with, and prayed together concerning it. As Jesus said we are to wash one another's feet.

 

[WalkInLight]

When you say, and believe that YOU keep yourself saved, then you are denying the Savior.

:So, if you died on the Cross for your own sin, then you are absolutely correct,when you say that YOURSELF is your Savior, = who "keeps your saved".

Now, go ahead and keep letting the members see what you believe about YOUR SALVATION< so that they can comprehend what it means for a person to have become a "self saver", who has no FAITH IN CHRIST, TO Keep them saved.

See, when you give YOURSELF Credit, to "stay saved" or "YOU keep yourself saved" then you have taken the Place of Jesus, as YOUR Savior.

This is referred to as SELF Righteousness, and that is YOUR FAITH, exposed.

The only question we need to answer is "Can I love another person?"

We live our lives wrapped up in our own thoughts and actions, berely noticing those around us.
But if Jesus has broken in and set us free then we desire to bring about this reality for others.

So I wonder who has found this truth and who has not?

 

[Lizbeth]

Your minister is 50 yrs out of touch with the correct understanding of the Blood Atonement.

Let me show you why.

Notice this verse..

"where there is no LAW, there is no Sin, (no Transgression)"..

Why?
Because you can't transgress the Law, if it does not exist against you.

See that Reader?

Notice this....

The born again are "NOT UNDER THE LAW, but under Grace"..

See that?

The Born again exist .... = "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".

This is why 2 Corinthians 5:19 and Romans 4:8, are in the New Testament.

Welcome to : SALVATION

Its a "GIFT" you dont earn and can't lose.

As long as we don't abuse that grace and mercy, it will be extended to us. But God is not mocked........so best not to abuse it. A three fold cord is not easily broken, but it can be and sadly sometimes is. The devil still goes around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour, no?

Behold, you are being too "logical" about these things....the carnal mind of the natural man can't perceive the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. We need to see things through the spiritual mind of Christ. In other words, see things through the Spirit period.

 

[Brakelite]

I'm not seeing what I was hoping for, some Scripture that tells me about this "first encounter with Christ", and how it begins a spiritual process by which we eventually, hopefully, become reborn.

“25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. ”
Matthew 6:25-34 KJV

The last verse above suggests how we are to manage our faith. One day at a time.

 

[marks]

Brother, to my understanding, I believe Jesus was delegating His authority and power to the church in general, because we are all told to forgive our enemies. If we forgive those who trespass against us God will forgive them from heaven, meaning they will not suffer consequences in this life for that particular trespass. It's why we need to pray for our enemies, that they not suffer consequences. I have two or three times seen people be quite quickly judged by God when I have either forgotten or just didn't want to forgive and pray for them...and that is how He taught me this. And for example, we see in the verse that says to call for elders to pray for and anoint with oil the one who is sick and if that one had sinned their sin will be forgiven and they will be healed. But also it is for church leadership in general, at times when it may be necessary to impose church discipline.

Being given power and authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and cast out devils and heal I believe is likewise given to the church in general and not only to apostles. And it is generally according to one's gifts and callings, though the Lord may occasionally use someone apart from their usual gift.

And that's going to be a more mainstream view than mine, I think, along with the view that this was to declare God's forgiveness.

I'll simply point out the wording in that passage is clear and unambiguous, and says this certain thing.

Much love!

 

[marks]

wouldn't they have to be blessed in this capacity by the Holy Spirit and the laying on of hands?

Many surmise such a thing, I do not, as I don't see anything in Scripture to support that.

Much love!