The thief on the cross misconceptions
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Water where did I put my water?
Why it is unwise to get baptized in winter.
Didache
Why it is unwise to get baptized in winter.
Didache
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
Amen! Praise and Thanks Be Unto God, HIS ONE Baptism, Under His Amazing Grace,
Solves All the Multiplied Confusion of water, eh?
Baptism is the method by which you're saved after belief. It also places you in the body of Christ which is his church. If you're not part of the body of Christ and your sins are not forgiven the answer is obvious.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
I reject the ideas you made up out of thin air. The BIble still teaches the necessity of water baptism every time I read it.
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Hello,
Baptists do not teach the truth on water baptism. From a post I made in another thread...there is no such thing as an unbaptized Christian for water baptism is how Christians/disciples are made per the great commission of Matt 28:19-20. Even Baptist Greek scholar AT Robertson admits disciples are made by the participles "baptizing" and "teaching".
Matt 28
Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
How are disciples made? By baptizing them.
What is the Purpose of Baptism? (Part 1) - Apologetics Press
Matthew 28:19-20 constitutes the “marching orders” for the apostles in promulgating the spread of Christianity in the first century. Embedded within this “Great Commission” is one of the key prerequisites to being saved: water baptism. The precise wording expressed by Jesus provides...
apologeticspress.org
"Present participles (teaching & baptizing) indicate action that occurs at the same time as the action of the main verb (make disciples)."
The main verb is "make disciples". Jesus then tells us HOW disciples are made by using two present participles "teaching" and "baptizing".
Southern Baptist scholar of New Testament Greek A.T. Robertson says these two participles in this passage are “modal participles," (14) i.e., they identify the manner, means, or method by which the action of the main verb is accomplished.
Hence the way disciples are made is by teaching and baptizing. The two present participles 'teaching' and 'baptizing' are occuring at the same time as the main verb 'make disciples'
"Observe that the English reader might be tempted to interpret Jesus’ command to mean that the apostles were first to make disciples, i.e., convert people to Christianity, and then baptize them, and then after baptizing them to teach them additional Christian doctrine. However, the Greek grammar of the passage, i.e., Matthew’s inspired Greek translation of Jesus’ (perhaps Aramaic) remarks, weighs heavily against this interpretation and clarifies succinctly Jesus’ intended meaning.(18)"
(14) A.T. Robertson (1934), A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (Nashville, TN: Broadman), p. 1128.
(18) “Two or more participles…unconnected by kaiv, are frequently…joined to one principal verb”—George Winer (1870),A Treatise on the Grammar of the New Testament Greek, trans. W.F. Moulton (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark), p. 433. Lange notes that “there is no kaiv before didavskonte$, so that baptizing and teaching are not strictly coordinate, as two successive acts”—John Lange (1884), A Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: Matthew (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons), 1:558. Again, in other words, both occur coincident with “make disciples.”
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And, the church of christ, also. So, LEFT them BOTH behind. WHY?:
Once Again, Confusion reigns, But, have you ever Prayerfully And Carefully Considered?
With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, HE Teaches:
Three Bible Baptisms:
God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, YESTERDAY!:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
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B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL!
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
God's Other Context Of Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, TODAY!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today:
Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION {#13},
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
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These have also been Very Helpful:
Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!
and:
Water That Divides!!
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Precious friends:
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Above is my explanation to you of why the passage you are stuck on in Matt 28 (below) is only a commandment to a point. Thus, yes there is a necessity of water baptism, but it is not a requirement of salvation, but a sign for teaching the Holy Spirit baptism of Christ to the ends of the earth and all generations. Not out of thin air, but by explanation a word of knowledge according to the scriptures.
Then, do we take the following "at face value," OR...:
Luk 7:29-30 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."
...OR, REinterpret it Also with "by explanation a word of knowledge, according to the scriptures?"
like Many Try to do with this, to 'fit their theology'?:
Mar 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." "Yea, Hath God Said" That,
or, "Did He not Really Mean to Say THIS"?:
"he that believeth and is saved, should then be baptized"???
And one only wonders WHY there is so Much Confusion? Can't Be Of God, Correct?:
1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of PEACE, as in all churches of the saints."
My 'Peace' In Salvation = Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ!
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My "Peace' Cancelling Confusion, is In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!!
Amen.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Matthew 28:19-20
Mark 16:15-16
John 3:5
Acts 2:38
Romans 6:3-5
1 Cor 1:13
Gal 3:27
Col 2:12-13
1 Pet 3:21
The above verses, plus others I could have included, when all taken at face value and in context teach the necessity of water baptism. It is those who have allowed themselves to be deceived by faith onlyism have a need to change these verse to get them to say something other than what they say.
Just investigating:
I cor 12
The Body of Christ
12 A person has only one body, but it has many parts. Yes, there are many parts, but all those parts are still just one body. Christ is like that too. 13 Some of us are Jews and some of us are not; some of us are slaves and some of us are free. But we were all baptized to become one body through one Spirit. And we were all given[a] the one Spirit.14 And a person’s body has more than one part. It has many parts. 15 The foot might say, “I am not a hand, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not stop the foot from being a part of the body. 16 The ear might say, “I am not an eye, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not make the ear stop being a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, it would not be able to hear. If the whole body were an ear, it would not be able to smell anything. 18-19 If each part of the body were the same part, there would be no body. But as it is, God put the parts in the body as he wanted them. He made a place for each one. 20 So there are many parts, but only one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the foot, “I don’t need you!” 22 No, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are actually very important. 23 And the parts that we think are not worth very much are the parts we give the most care to. And we give special care to the parts of the body that we don’t want to show. 24 The more beautiful parts don’t need this special care. But God put the body together and gave more honor to the parts that need it. 25 God did this so that our body would not be divided. God wanted the different parts to care the same for each other. 26 If one part of the body suffers, then all the other parts suffer with it. Or if one part is honored, then all the other parts share its honor.
27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
How can water baptism be a necessity but not a requirement? They are the same thing.
The fact water baptism has been commanded by God, that command makes is a requirement, necessirty if for no other reason.
Necessity - a noun, the fact of being required or indispensable (Oxford)
Requirement - a noun, a thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition.(Oxford)
Romans 12
Easy-to-Read Version
Give Your Lives to God
12 So I beg you, brothers and sisters, because of the great mercy God has shown us, offer your lives[a] as a living sacrifice to him—an offering that is only for God and pleasing to him. Considering what he has done, it is only right that you should worship him in this way. 2 Don’t change yourselves to be like the people of this world, but let God change you inside with a new way of thinking. Then you will be able to understand and accept what God wants for you. You will be able to know what is good and pleasing to him and what is perfect.3 God has given me a special gift, and that is why I have something to say to each one of you. Don’t think that you are better than you really are. You must see yourself just as you are. Decide what you are by the faith God has given each of us. 4 Each one of us has one body, and that body has many parts. These parts don’t all do the same thing. 5 In the same way, we are many people, but in Christ we are all one body. We are the parts of that body, and each part belongs to all the others.
6 We all have different gifts. Each gift came because of the grace God gave us. Whoever has the gift of prophecy should use that gift in a way that fits the kind of faith they have. 7 Whoever has the gift of serving should serve. Whoever has the gift of teaching should teach. 8 Whoever has the gift of comforting others should do that. Whoever has the gift of giving to help others should give generously. Whoever has the gift of leading should work hard at it. Whoever has the gift of showing kindness to others should do it gladly.
9 Your love must be real. Hate what is evil. Do only what is good. 10 Love each other in a way that makes you feel close like brothers and sisters. And give each other more honor than you give yourself. 11 As you serve the Lord, work hard and don’t be lazy. Be excited about serving him! 12 Be happy because of the hope you have. Be patient when you have troubles. Pray all the time. 13 Share with God’s people who need help. Look for people who need help and welcome them into your homes.
14 Wish only good for those who treat you badly. Ask God to bless them, not curse them. 15 When others are happy, you should be happy with them. And when others are sad, you should be sad too. 16 Live together in peace with each other. Don’t be proud, but be willing to be friends with people who are not important to others. Don’t think of yourself as smarter than everyone else.
17 If someone does you wrong, don’t try to pay them back by hurting them. Try to do what everyone thinks is right. 18 Do the best you can to live in peace with everyone. 19 My friends, don’t try to punish anyone who does wrong to you. Wait for God to punish them with his anger. In the Scriptures the Lord says,
“I am the one who punishes;
I will pay people back.”
20 But you should do this:
“If you have enemies who are hungry,
give them something to eat.
If you have enemies who are thirsty,
give them something to drink.
In doing this you will make them feel ashamed."
21 Don’t let evil defeat you, but defeat evil by doing good.
"The phrase “the Body of Christ” is a common New Testament metaphor for the Church (all those who are truly saved). The Church is called “one body in Christ” in Romans 12:5, “one body” in 1 Corinthians 10:17, “the body of Christ” in 1 Corinthians 12:27 and Ephesians 4:12, and “the body” in Hebrews 13:3. The Church is clearly equated with “the body” of Christ in Ephesians 5:23 and Colossians 1:24.
...
The Church may be called the Body of Christ because of these facts:
1) Members of the Body of Christ are joined to Christ in salvation (Ephesians 4:15-16).
2) Members of the Body of Christ follow Christ as their Head (Ephesians 1:22-23).
3) Members of the Body of Christ are the physical representation of Christ in this world. The Church is the organism through which Christ manifests His life to the world today.
4) Members of the Body of Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9).
5) Members of the Body of Christ possess a diversity of gifts suited to particular functions (1 Corinthians 12:4-31). “The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ” (verse 12).
6) Members of the Body of Christ share a common bond with all other Christians, regardless of background, race, or ministry. “There should be no division in the body, but . . . its parts should have equal concern for each other” (1 Corinthians 12:25).
7) Members of the Body of Christ are secure in their salvation (John 10:28-30). For a Christian to lose his salvation, God would have to perform an “amputation” on the Body of Christ!
8) Members of the Body of Christ partake of Christ’s death and resurrection (Colossians 2:12).
9) Members of the Body of Christ share Christ’s inheritance (Romans 8:17).
10) Members of the Body of Christ receive the gift of Christ’s righteousness (Romans 5:17)."
...
The Church may be called the Body of Christ because of these facts:
1) Members of the Body of Christ are joined to Christ in salvation (Ephesians 4:15-16).
2) Members of the Body of Christ follow Christ as their Head (Ephesians 1:22-23).
3) Members of the Body of Christ are the physical representation of Christ in this world. The Church is the organism through which Christ manifests His life to the world today.
4) Members of the Body of Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9).
5) Members of the Body of Christ possess a diversity of gifts suited to particular functions (1 Corinthians 12:4-31). “The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ” (verse 12).
6) Members of the Body of Christ share a common bond with all other Christians, regardless of background, race, or ministry. “There should be no division in the body, but . . . its parts should have equal concern for each other” (1 Corinthians 12:25).
7) Members of the Body of Christ are secure in their salvation (John 10:28-30). For a Christian to lose his salvation, God would have to perform an “amputation” on the Body of Christ!
8) Members of the Body of Christ partake of Christ’s death and resurrection (Colossians 2:12).
9) Members of the Body of Christ share Christ’s inheritance (Romans 8:17).
10) Members of the Body of Christ receive the gift of Christ’s righteousness (Romans 5:17)."
How is the church the Body of Christ? | GotQuestions.org
How is the church the Body of Christ? What are the implications of the church being the Body of Christ?
www.gotquestions.org
These links are Catholic viewpoint:
www.usccb.org
www.ncregister.com
www.scripturecatholic.com
A Guide to Catholic Baptism - About Catholics
Baptism is the first of seven sacraments and the way in which a person becomes a member of the Catholic Church. Contents show 1. Who Can Receive a Catholic Baptism? 2. Who Can Perform a Catholic Baptism? 3. Can Someone be Baptized Twice? 4. Does the Catholic Church accept baptisms from another...
www.aboutcatholics.com
Christian Initiation of Adults
Each year on Holy Saturday during the Easter Vigil, thousands are baptized into the Catholic Church in the United States. Parishes welcome these new Catho...
14 Bible Verses That Show We’re Saved Through Baptism
“Baptism is birth into the new life in Christ. In accordance with the Lord's will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism.” (CCC 1277)
SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM - Scripture Catholic
Contents1 Scripture1.1 I. Born Again in Water Baptism1.2 II. Baptism is Salvific, Not Just Symbolic1.3 III. Infant Baptism1.4 IV. Pouring and Sprinkling versus Immersion1.5 V. Original Sin2 Tradition / Church Fathers2.1 I. “Born Again” Means Water Baptism2.2 II. Infant Baptism2.3 III. Original...
www.scripturecatholic.com
Dropship
Well-Known Member
But if baptism is absolutely essential for salvation why isn't it one of the 10 Commandments?..
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The confusion is in the language...as God has indeed confused it, and for this very purpose. To the contrary, God is a god of order--which is not contrary, but a different statement. Which is the perfect example of confusion: You did not acknowledged that God himself has confused all language, but claimed just the opposite by quoting another verse as if God contradicted Himself. Which He did not, but you have not reconciled the two passages, and have misunderstood.
But back to: Luk 7:29-30 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."
By the words of Christ, if the Pharisees rejected John, they rejected Him who sent him. Which does not make the passage a statement about their rejection of water baptism--which was only a sign--but of their rejecting Christ. The point is not that water baptism has any power to save, but rather that the sign of water baptism works both ways: Having rejected the sign they also rejected the baptism of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
Now, be careful, because you have already accused me of rejecting the sign--which I did not do--but rather called it a sign instead of calling it what it is not, distinguishing between the two as the scriptures also do. In which case, you can confirm your false accusation, or confirm your understanding that water baptism is without power, but is a sign of the saving power of Christ to baptism with the Holy Spirit.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Do you not understand God's use of signs? I believe you do, but simply have not considered it or applied it here.
The "necessity" of water baptism is as a sign (for teaching by example), but the "requirement" is rather the baptism of Christ by the Holy Spirit. The two are different. Such is the difference between all signs as compared with what they are actually a sign of.
Remember what is written of John the Baptist and why he did what he did: "Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.” That is all that water baptism is--it is a preparation for "the way of the Lord", which is His baptism by the Holy Spirit.
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huh? I don't recall an accusation, but if there was, my sincerest apologies...
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