The Smoke of their Torment Ascends Forever

[PinSeeker]

As for what God's word is, let me put it this way:

<chuckle> Okay! :)

First and foremost God the Father is a spirit. He doesn't have vocal cords as we do, though Jesus did and still does.

Yes... well aware of that... :)

However, for what He does have, is His Eternal thoughts and ways, which are extremely much higher than our human, earthy thoughts and ways, of which we express through OUR lowly human form of communication, being the words of our languages. Isaiah 55:8-9

:)

Since none of us are able to communicate with God's level of thoughts, through our earthy level of thinking, He had to come down to our level, and communicate to us His thoughts, using our words to communicate with.

Earburner, what we should understand is, we, as humans have our ideas of what things like love, justice, and other like concepts are. But His love is much higher and better than what we think of as true love. The same is true of justice, and other concepts like that... attributes ~ purposes, actually ~ of God that we can only think of in human terms. How many times have we heard someone say, "Well, if God is such a good God. then how can He let such bad things happen to good people?" The fact is that we have such limited understandings of what good and bad really are. Yeah, so, you're off the reservation, here, my friend.

For an analogy, none us are able to communicate effectively with a cat or a dog.

Ah. So we are cats and dogs... :) Well, we do fight like 'em from time to time... :) But building on this, er, analogy, Are cats and dogs able to make sense out of our thoughts and ways, Earburner? Dude. Come on. :) Hey, why do you call yourself Earburner? :) Is that literal? :)

In all actuality, by Him using our earthy words to communicate with, those words are indeed divinely inspired, but still they remain to be our form of words, having OUR understanding of what WE MEAN by them.

Oy vey... :) See above.

But now that God has used our words, those words in context**, now have a divinely enhanced spiritual meaning, which can only be interpreted to us by His Holy Spirit, aka the Mind of Christ. John 16:13.

Again, oy vey... :) See above. But to what you say here:

a.) Now, when you speak of the mind of Christ, are you referring to Paul's words in Philippians 2:5, Earburner? Because that's not what Paul's talking about there. There, He's talking specifically of Christ's total humility, and he exhorts us to the same kind of humility as Jesus. Since we are followers of Jesus, we are to do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than ourselves, to look not only to our own interests, but also to the interests of others.

b.) Or, alternatively, are you referring to Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 2:16? The latter, I assume, and if I am correct in understanding you to be saying that we have the same understanding right now as Christ, that's true in that He told us what He told us, and we in our human condition can understand that, because He was in the form of man, then. But that's not true in the sense that He is God, and in that regard, His thoughts and ways are still not ours, even high above ours and we cannot attain it, as David says in Psalm 139:6. What Paul is saying there is in the same light as what Jesus Himself said in John 15:15, where, in the form of man, He says, "No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his Master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you."

I do agree with you, though, that the things of God are spiritually discerned, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:18. I mean I kind of have to, because that's exactly what Paul (and ultimately God, Who is the real Author of all of Scripture) says...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[teamventure]

Prior to the day of Jesus death and Resurrection, and the giving of His Holy Spirit on Pentecost, no human being was allowed to enter into the kingdom of Heaven. The best that could be established for them, was to have their names written in the "book of Remembrance". Malachi 3:16.
As a result, those who were of faith before Jesus first appeared but did die, they also were GIVEN the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, and are alive, but are asleep in Jesus. They can be seen in Revelation 6:9-11.

Only Jesus IS the First Resurrection, being the firstborn from the dead. Now that He has Ascended into Heaven, we all who are of faith in Him, are now taking part in HIS First Resurrection, being given the Gift of Eternal Life now, though we are still in our mortal flesh. Revelation 20:6, 1 John 5:12-13, 2 Corinthians 4:7.
Therefore, when we physically die, we also are the dead in Christ, who are asleep in Jesus, aka paradise.

All of us, who are born again, are now literally NEW creatures in Christ Jesus, waiting patiently for the Day of His Glorious return, to be resurrected into the likeness of His immortality.

I see what you're saying but those same people still continued to exist in Abrahams bossum after they died physically as apposed to animals who die and are no more.
That's where you have huge holes in your theology.
If your argument were true, old testament believers wouldn't have existed in Abrahams bossum unless they are eternal souls.

 

[Earburner]

<chuckle> Okay! :)


Yes... well aware of that... :)


:)


Earburner, what we should understand is, we, as humans have our ideas of what things like love, justice, and other like concepts are. But His love is much higher and better than what we think of as true love. The same is true of justice, and other concepts like that... attributes ~ purposes, actually ~ of God that we can only think of in human terms. How many times have we heard someone say, "Well, if God is such a good God. then how can He let such bad things happen to good people?" The fact is that we have such limited understandings of what good and bad really are. Yeah, so, you're off the reservation, here, my friend.


Ah. So we are cats and dogs... :) Well, we do fight like 'em from time to time... :) But building on this, er, analogy, Are cats and dogs able to make sense out of our thoughts and ways, Earburner? Dude. Come on. :) Hey, why do you call yourself Earburner? :) Is that literal? :)


Oy vey... :) See above.


Again, oy vey... :) See above. But to what you say here:

a.) Now, when you speak of the mind of Christ, are you referring to Paul's words in Philippians 2:5, Earburner? Because that's not what Paul's talking about there. There, He's talking specifically of Christ's total humility, and he exhorts us to the same kind of humility as Jesus. Since we are followers of Jesus, we are to do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than ourselves, to look not only to our own interests, but also to the interests of others.

b.) Or, alternatively, are you referring to Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 2:16? The latter, I assume, and if I am correct in understanding you to be saying that we have the same understanding right now as Christ, that's true in that He told us what He told us, and we in our human condition can understand that, because He was in the form of man, then. But that's not true in the sense that He is God, and in that regard, His thoughts and ways are still not ours, even high above ours and we cannot attain it, as David says in Psalm 139:6. What Paul is saying there is in the same light as what Jesus Himself said in John 15:15, where, in the form of man, He says, "No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his Master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you."

I do agree with you, though, that the things of God are spiritually discerned, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:18. I mean I kind of have to, because that's exactly what Paul (and ultimately God, Who is the real Author of all of Scripture) says...

Grace and peace to you.

You are not telling me anything that I don't already know about the Character of Christ and the fruit of the Holy Spirit, allowing us to be partakers of the divine nature. Those are well known of by all who present their bodies to Him as a holy and living sacrifice for His use. We are to reckon ourselves to be dead to ourselves, so He may live His resurrected life through us.
You know,....
Gal.2[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Now, let's look at prophecy, and how that is being interpreted. Is it being interpreted by the mind of Christ, or for what we mostly hear from "church-ianity", is it by the wisdom of men?

 

[Earburner]

I see what you're saying but those same people still continued to exist in Abrahams bossum after they died physically as apposed to animals who die and are no more.
That's where you have huge holes in your theology.
If your argument were true, old testament believers wouldn't have existed in Abrahams bossum unless they are eternal souls.

You are not hearing Malachi 3:16, and the simple fact of what Jesus said:
John.3[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
> That includes Enoch and Elijah. No one was going to have the preminence over and above Jesus!

BTW, there is no such thing or place of Abraham's bosom, unless of course it is another meaning of what the "book of Remembrance" is, which are the names of those who died in faith under the old covenant. Also, the word "remembrance" is synonymous with the word "altar", because that is why an altar would be established in specific locations. A place of Remembrance.
You can see those who are in the book of Remembrance, for ever since Pentecost, they are now alive in Christ, under the ALTAR. Revelation 6:9-11.