The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.
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Ps.111:10 ( cxt 7-10
The WORKS of his hands are VERITY and JUDGMENT; ALL his commandments are SURE.
They stand fast for ever and ever, and are DONE IN TRUTH, and UPRIGHTNESS.
He sent REDEMPTION unto his ppl: ( Jews ,Gentiles & whosoever will ) he hath commanded his covenant forever: HOLY AND REVERED IS HIS NAME.
The FEAR OF THE LORD is the BEGINNING of wisdom: a good understanding have all that do his commandments: his praise endureth forever.
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This again is yet another Protestant deception and or lie.
While James is saying to the brethren he is writing to that he will show them his faith by his works, that does not mean that works are not necessary as a part of being justified before God. James also says in James 2:24 that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone? Surely not. James also makes a point in the previous chapter that enduring (or passing) the trial of temptation is tied to receiving the crown of life (James 1:12), and that laying apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receiving with meekness the engrafted word is a part of saving our souls (James 1:21).
And your a Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationist. I would rather be labeled as a Works Salvationist than a Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationist.
It turns out that you are BOTH! You are a MUCH worse Sinner than you think you are..........Hows your “ thought life?” .......ever have an Impure Thought? If you have ever just “ looked” at a woman with Lust, you are no better than an Adulterer in God’s Eyes.....
And how about those pesky ” Sins Of Omission?” .....How many strangers did you take into your home today to feed and clothe? I bet you spent time watching television today , when you could have been helping out at the poor at the food line.....
You refuse to face the Fact that God has you trapped like a rat! You were BORN a Sinner, and you are going to Die a Sinner....If you break just ONE LAW you are the equal to a man that has broken them ALL! Can’t you GET that? God has “ stacked the deck” and you can’t win! He is trying to show you that you MUST have Grace to be Saved......
Perhaps if one has been a Christian for 50 years and the Holy Spirit has Transformed that person Into a “ better” person, that person will *STILL* need a Ton Of Grace to be in the Presence Of a 100% Holy God on Judgement Day....
You need to Abandon your pitiful attempts at obtaining a Performance That will pass muster with God when you stand before Him on Judgement Day ...Instead Of joining the damned that will be boasting, “ Look what *I* did!— Look what * I* did! Give me what I Deserve!” ............. You SHOULD be saying , “ Thank you , God for your GRACE! The Grace That had you put the Punishment that **I** deserved on your Son.....I had the Faith to Believe that Jesus took upon Himself “My” Sins and in turn , He gave me HIS Righteousness! He Shed His Blood for me and I Believed it......That is the ONLY reason that you should allow me to enter Your Kingdom....
If you ask God, (After all that Work that you did for Him and after that “Stellar Performance” you tried to offer up as your Justifications ) to “ Give me what I deserve!” , He will grant you your wish....He will give you exactly what you “ deserve”, if you reject His Grace —— you “ deserve” Hell ......His Angels will carry you there...
Remember THIS as you get carted off to your Eternal Damnation.....Ol’ BB had it Right! The Hymn was true! It really “ WAS”, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD!
It turns out that you are BOTH! You are a MUCH worse Sinner than you think you are..........Hows your “ thought life?” .......ever have an Impure Thought? If you have ever just “ looked” at a woman with Lust, you are no better than an Adulterer in God’s Eyes.....
And how about those pesky ” Sins Of Omission?” .....How many strangers did you take into your home today to feed and clothe? I bet you spent time watching television today , when you could have been helping out at the poor at the food line.....
You refuse to face the Fact that God has you trapped like a rat! You were BORN a Sinner, and you are going to Die a Sinner....If you break just ONE LAW you are the equal to a man that has broken them ALL! Can’t you GET that? God has “ stacked the deck” and you can’t win! He is trying to show you that you MUST have Grace to be Saved......
Perhaps if one has been a Christian for 50 years and the Holy Spirit has Transformed that person Into a “ better” person, that person will *STILL* need a Ton Of Grace to be in the Presence Of a 100% Holy God on Judgement Day....
You need to Abandon your pitiful attempts at obtaining a Performance That will pass muster with God when you stand before Him on Judgement Day ...Instead Of joining the damned that will be boasting, “ Look what *I* did!— Look what * I* did! Give me what I Deserve!” ............. You SHOULD be saying , “ Thank you , God for your GRACE! The Grace That had you put the Punishment that **I** deserved on your Son.....I had the Faith to Believe that Jesus took upon Himself “My” Sins and in turn , He gave me HIS Righteousness! He Shed His Blood for me and I Believed it......That is the ONLY reason that you should allow me to enter Your Kingdom....
If you ask God, (After all that Work that you did for Him and after that “Stellar Performance” you tried to offer up as your Justifications ) to “ Give me what I deserve!” , He will grant you your wish....He will give you exactly what you “ deserve”, if you reject His Grace —— you “ deserve” Hell ......His Angels will carry you there...
Remember THIS as you get carted off to your Eternal Damnation.....Ol’ BB had it Right! The Hymn was true! It really “ WAS”, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD!
We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
Please explain what it means to “ Fall From Grace” .....how does that happen to a person and what are the repercussions of it.....thanks for your speedy reply....
Please explain what it means to “ Fall From Grace” .....how does that happen to a person and what are the repercussions of it.....thanks for your speedy reply....
Behold said:
Bible Highlighter said:
Well, Galatians 5 mentions nothing about a “believer confessing sin as being tied to not understanding the righteousness of God in Christ (one with God)” claim you originally made. Now, Galatians 5:4 does mention about falling from grace. This is true.
Galatians 5:4 says, “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
But this is in context to the problem of “Circumcision Salvationism” (Which was a false belief or heresy during that time that said you had to first be circumcised to be initially saved - See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, and then compare that verse with Galatians 5:2). Circumcision was something that was a part of the instructions given to Abraham and then it carried over into the Law of Moses. But circumcision is not required as a part of the commands given to us by Jesus Christ and his followers. So Galatians 5:4 is in reference to being justified by the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, yearly Sabbaths, holy days, dietary laws, circumcision, etcetera. For Paul says in Galatians 4:10-11, “Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you,…”; So Paul is not referring to the Laws of Christ Jesus. For Paul says he is not without Law seeing he is under the Law(s) to Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21).
This is why Paul says to the Galatian believers why they were bewitched in Galatians 3 (and not Galatians 5 as you said).
Galatians 3:1-3
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”
Again, which works of the Law is Paul talking about here?
Well, I already showed you Galatians 4 refers to observances of day which is a part of the Law of Moses.
But in Galatians 2:3, Paul mentions how he did not compel Titus who was a Gentile (Greek) to be circumcised. Again circumcision was a command given to Abraham and later to Moses, but it was not a command given to us by Jesus and His followers. Gentile Believers are said that they don’t have to keep the 613 Laws of Moses (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:5) because the Jewish apostles said that was not something they were told to do (but only to keep certain laws) (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
As your reference to “in the flesh”:
This again is in another chapter in Galatians (i.e. Galatians 6, and not Galatians 5).
Galatians 6:12
“As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.”
Again, as we can see in this above verse, this was dealing with the problem of those who thought they had to be circumcised first in order to be saved as per the heresy mentioned in Acts of the Apostles 15:1 (at the Jerusalem council). Circumcision was OT (Old Testament), and not NT (New Testament). So it appears like you don’t know what the Bible actually says and you are just making stuff up.
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I just gave a reply to this to poster Behold just now on this.
I did not see your reply until after I gave my reply to him.
See post #827 and it will give you answer.
In other words, I don’t see this as a coincidence.
God is talking here to you.
I agree. We are to fear God indeed. But as Romans 3:18 says there are those who have no fear of God before their eyes.
How the Belief Alone Salvationist (or sin and still be saved believer) skates around this one is beyond me. I suppose all we can do is pray for them, and continue to speak the truth of God’s Word (so that at least one of them may one day see). For there are believers who have come out of the Belief Alone Salvation deception.
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When Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the Law to everyone who believes, this is in reference to the Old Law or the 613 laws of Moses, and not the Laws of Christ in the New Testament (or New Covenant). For Romans chapters 9-11 is dealing with how the nation of Israel needs to be saved by God’s grace (by belief in the Messiah Jesus Christ). Jews are naturally under the Old Law or the Torah and not the laws of Christ. So you cannot make an argument that Paul was also including the Laws of Christ here.
You said:
Which again does not make sense in your belief system if you were to believe this statement in Philippians 2:12 at face value or with a normal plain reading.
You said:
Where in the Bible does it say… “Work out your salvation” is defined in this way in the Bible? It just seems like you are making stuff up here.
Belief Alone Salvationism is a general category of describing most Protestant’s view on salvation in that they believe they are saved solely by a belief alone in Jesus or the gospel message plus nothing else. Therefore, they would not also include any work of faith or holy living by the Spirit in addition to that (Which is a violation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, etcetera). This camp is filled with OSAS (Baptists, etc.) and Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Type Believers (i.e. Free Will Baptist churches). So this is why I sometimes refer between OSAS believers, and Belief Alone Salvationists (because when I referr to Belief Alone Salvationists, it generally covers the Non-OSAS sin and still be saved type believers).
OSAS means Once Saved Always Saved (Also known as Eternal Security, or Free Grace). There are two major branches of OSAS.
#1. Hyper Grace (I have talked with these folks both online and in person; They believe that a believer can be a murderer, rapist, drunkard, a fornicator, a thief, etcetera and still be saved).
#2. Partial Hyper Grace (They appear to be for holy living on the surface; And they will admit that a person who is living the life of a murderer, rapist, thief, etcetera and who declares to be a believer is not saved; But then they turn around and double speak and say they will always sin this side of Heaven based on a false interpretation of 1 John 1:8 (and they are evasive as to what sins they do on occasion). Granted, they have admitted to me that a believer can look upon a woman in lust right before they got hit by a bus, and then die without confessing that sin and yet, they are still saved - which would be a violation of Matthew 5:28-30). Some in this camp will even admit that a prodigal believer (who goes back into a backslidden lifestyle of sin like being a drunkard or in sleeping around with lots of people is still saved).
Then there is Calvinism (of which I did not mention) is another flavor of Protestantism. Many of them (maybe not all of them) see Belief as a work, and thus they see God as having to regenerate a believer prior to a person exercising faith or a belief in the Lord Jesus Christ involving their initial salvation. They believe God chooses based on no conditions (within the individual) those who are going to be saved. In Calvinism: God also chooses those who are going to be damned for His good pleasure and will. Free will in choosing God does not exist in the upside down Bizarro world of Calvinism. Thus, they over-emphasize God’s sovereignty to an imaginary point whereby it attacks His good character (Which is another level of wrong). Calvinists call their version of OSAS as Perseverance of the Saints.
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Thank you for the answer which is greatly inclusive. I totally disagree with all threes teachings.
First, you seem to have trouble with the caps lock key. While I have used the capitalized words before, I try to keep it to a minimum because it can appear as if one is shouting at others. Generally, yelling at others turns people off (whereby they will just tune you out most times).
Second, accusations in making it personal really has nothing to do with the discussion of what the Bible plainly says. If the Bible told me to be a pilot to get to Heaven, I would have to accept that fact whether or not I was a pilot. I would have to work towards that goal in being a pilot if that is what the Bible required of me. So please lets keep the conversation on topic with the Bible by posting Bible verses to defend your belief and not ramblings of your own mind.
Thank you, and may the Lord bless you (even if we disagree on what the Bible says).
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I am not above God’s Word anymore than you are. I believe I have to confess of sin to be forgiven of sin. To be forgiven of sin equates with salvation. So if I refused to confess of my sin, then I would not be forgiven and thus I would not be saved. But if I were to die before I confessed of my sin, I believe I would not be saved. Why? Well, the Bible says we have to confess to be forgiven (1 John 1:9). Unforgiven people are not saved.
Bible Highlighter said:
So either you do not realize the problem behind your own contradictory statements, or you are just hoping we will forget about what you said, or that you are banking on the fact that we all will be too lazy to look back on what you just posted in this thread.
You said, I quote:
“Eternal Damnation is not based on your behavior on earth, its ONLY based on this. John 3:36”
Quote by - Behold.
Quote by - Behold.
Citation source.
You said, I quote:
“Were you not still "saved" after the last time you sinned?”
Quote by - Behold.
Quote by - Behold.
Citation source.
You said, I quote:
“Romans 8:13.... This verse is Paul warning the believers about the final consequence of backsliding and never repenting......He tells them, and its a fact.....if you turn back to the world's vomit like a hungry dog, and you wont repent......."you will die".....and thats a fact. Many believers go to Heaven "before their time" because they went backwards, and ended up dead too soon.”
Quote by - Behold.
Citation source.Quote by - Behold.
This is a sin and still be saved explanation right here. You act like I was falsely accusing you that is not what you were saying but that is indeed what you believe by the above words here.
The Bible says Chastisement is only for those who are sons and not bastards.
Hebrews 12:8 says, “But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.”
Sons (those who are born of Him) are described as those who do righteousness (See 1 John 2:29).
Sons (those who are born of God) are described as those who love one another (See 1 John 4:7).
So if a believer does get off the beaten path for a time, and they come back by God’s chastisement, they are the kind of believer who does not justify sin and evil over the course of their whole life as a believer.
Most of Christianity today justifies darkness and evil under God’s grace by their wrong interpretation on 1 John 1:8 in that they say they will always sin this side of Heaven (Which destroys the whole idea of chastisement). For chastisement is for the purpose and goal of getting the believer or son to stop sinning. But many in your camp believe that a prodigal believer is saved. So if that is the case, then they can deceive themselves into being prodigal all the time and be saved. For what is the time limits on going prodigal?
I did not deny anything. I pointed out to you the words of Jesus that refutes your false belief here. For Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death” (John 8:51). But you twisted this verse to say something that it doesn’t.
Nope. Paul teaches works as a part of God’s plan of salvation (After we are saved by God’s grace).
- “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).
- “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4) (Note: James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble).
- “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).
- “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
- “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8).
You said:
Says here in the Bible that believers will be judged based on what they did.
2 Corinthians 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
Again, it just looks like you are making stuff up.
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