The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[WalkInLight]

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2.1-7)

I agree with you that there is an open question, what is it that if cleansed we can commune with Jesus and otherwise
be doomed to judgement. Paul is trying to describe the two states, without Christ and with Christ.

It comes down to what are we, how do we make decisions and approve of certain reactions as opposed to others.
If one looks at ourselves as layered emotional reactions, built on a hierarchy, which overtime becomes who we are,
how we react and process situations changes depending on our priorities and foundations.

Jesus is declaring simply we need to be rebuilt, reordered, restructured, the priorities and loyalties shifted.
The cross is the most powerful declaration of Gods love and intention to us, if we are prepared to allow Him to
structure and follow His commands. Once you see how we relate and the sharing one to one is what makes us
truly alive, not hierarchies or power, but this level of being and seeing with one another in love and openness.

So without this shift everything is seen incorrectly. The proposition that man in innately corrupt, is just putting
the focus in the wrong place. With communion with Jesus through His word and the Holy Spirit, we are made whole.
Memories, past relationships and approaches echo from the world, but over time are replaced by grace and the
Kingdom.

Adam and Eve were so close to life, yet chose death. For us to trust and bridge the gap to Jesus, we need the cross,
we need the guarantee of security and help, we need to know that love, because we are lost children trying to make
sense of this crazy reality, and He is prepared to reach out and to help if we live it and believe,

God bless you

 

[WalkInLight]

You don't have a leg to stand on with your definition of "fear and trembling."
We've been through that, so why are you still using it in contradiction to scripture?

I am wondering what you mean.
Fear is caution of something that could be dangerous. We have fear of many things, like the dark
so fear is a basic respect for the unknown and learning the realities of what is safe and what is not.

John emphasis that when we perceive Gods love and how it works out in our lives we have no fear.
Before we learn and know the will and ways of the Lord fear is a good response.

Paul warned the Corinthians that their dishonouring the breaking of bread led to some believers dying.
Ananias and Saphara lied to the Lord, and died.

When you become a car driver, learning respect for the forces involved and dangers is part of being
responsible and caring for everyone. Those who suggest there are no issues or limits are literally
being totally foolish.

God bless you

 

[Charlie24]

I am wondering what you mean.
Fear is caution of something that could be dangerous. We have fear of many things, like the dark
so fear is a basic respect for the unknown and learning the realities of what is safe and what is not.

John emphasis that when we perceive Gods love and how it works out in our lives we have no fear.
Before we learn and know the will and ways of the Lord fear is a good response.

Paul warned the Corinthians that their dishonouring the breaking of bread led to some believers dying.
Ananias and Saphara lied to the Lord, and died.

When you become a car driver, learning respect for the forces involved and dangers is part of being
responsible and caring for everyone. Those who suggest there are no issues or limits are literally
being totally foolish.

God bless you

I was addressing Bible Highlighter from a previous post.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I assume you are trying to address me.
"in your belief" - this is an all encompassing statement about my belief which I have not shared.

Maybe you know something more than I do, but your description, "chastisement does not serve any purpose" is not something I hold to.
Repentance, humbleness, accepting guilt and committing to walking righteously is part of following Jesus.

Maybe the use of statement and answer to a position has been miss-understood, which I can understand.
I just thought it would be useful to express my desire to understand what you are addressing, as you seem very distressed.

God bless you

Just for the record.....my life is full of Joy....( you might not know it from some of my “ angry” posts ) .......there is a thing called “ righteous anger”, and that’s what I have at times.....I can promise that you will see it whenever I see a “ False and Perverted” Gospel being promoted.....I am like God in one aspect....I HATE “Leaven”.....The Leaven Of Legalism That destroyed most of the churches that Paul founded ( All Of Asia Minor has deserted me).....I see myself as God's “Pit- Bull” in the fight against Leaven ( Jesus Saves— BUT!) and you and others will just have to deal with it....
When it comes to Salvation, it’s “ Nothing But The Blood” —— a FREE GIFT! Go beyond that ? You are Spreading Leaven, and you can count on being “ admonished”.... Those that can’t handle the heat need to get out of the kitchen....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

: Do you think John 5:24 is referring to believing in Jesus or the Father?



“ I and the Father are One”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Won't it truly be a sad day having believed a lie of delusion and be damned through all time ?
( however that may exist )

God sees ALL, the heart, the actions and the words,everything pertaining to each individual!

How will you be judged ? Will it be by Jesus,whom we FOLLOW or by God whom we REJECTED?

It's a hard question, one only you can answer if you examine and are honest with ourselves!

Won't it truly be a sad day having believed a lie of delusion and be damned through all time ?
( however that may exist )

God sees ALL, the heart, the actions and the words,everything pertaining to each individual!

How will you be judged ? Will it be by Jesus,whom we FOLLOW or by God whom we REJECTED?

It's a hard question, one only you can answer if you examine and are honest with ourselves!

How will we be judged? There is no Mystery there.....Paul said in Romans that we all will be judged by “his ( meaning Paul’s ) Gospel” ( 1Cor:1-4) ......Did you REST in it as Commanded in Hebrews? Or did you feel the need, because of your Pride and Unbelief , to ADD to it , thus making yourself “ Fallen From Grace “ and “ Severed from Christ”

You had better understand that Resting in the Gospel is what Saves you.....That Gospel is all about what God did for YOU , a Lost,Wretched Sinner and NOT what YOU did for God.....You got a so-called “Gospel” that allows YOU to share the Glory that belongs exclusively to Jesus? Sorry, friend—- you got the WRONG Gospel.....and it won’t Save you.....

Wanna get Saved? Just remember the Song—— “ Nothing But The Blood”.....It’s the Essence Of Paul’s Gospel—— and that True Gospel has the Power to Save....
Nothing else....

 

[farouk]

It is crystal clear, dead means inability...

@Rudometkin I do indeed agree it's crystal clear; not only from a logical perspective but from Scripture..........

 

[Rudometkin]

As a loving God, creating a world with choice, the choices must be real and have real consequences.

Our love and choices are authentic precisely because God controls it all.

If you tell me you disagree, then you expose yourself with a problem.

If you think choice and love cannot be authentic for God controlling it all, then you must think God is not the Standard of authenticity.

You are saying "It is not real unless God takes His hands out of it and I get the spotlight."

The implication of such a position disgusts me. It is rebellion and self worship.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

How will we be judged? There is no Mystery there.....Paul said in Romans that we all will be judged by “his ( meaning Paul’s ) Gospel” ( 1Cor:1-4) ......Did you REST in it as Commanded in Hebrews? Or did you feel the need, because of your Pride and Unbelief , to ADD to it , thus making yourself “ Fallen From Grace “ and “ Severed from Christ”

You had better understand that Resting in the Gospel is what Saves you.....That Gospel is all about what God did for YOU , a Lost,Wretched Sinner and NOT what YOU did for God.....You got a so-called “Gospel” that allows YOU to share the Glory that belongs exclusively to Jesus? Sorry, friend—- you got the WRONG Gospel.....and it won’t Save you.....

Wanna get Saved? Just remember the Song—— “ Nothing But The Blood”.....It’s the Essence Of Paul’s Gospel—— and that True Gospel has the Power to Save....
Nothing else....

You are either an ignorant person or care not that you lack love.

I said nothing in the post you quoted about rest.

Furthermore, you must be a Pauline worshipper bc the Gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. Paul was an Apostle not God !

Jesus paid the price for my sin wages; HE ALONE in agreement with the Father.

Have you had your psychotic meds today or yesterday ? ( time differs wherever you are)

I have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb,the Son of God, Jesus Christ, I am no longer a sinner !

You will be ignored from this point on,I care not for your attitude and behaviour and I don't have to put up with it, so toodles.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Have you had your psychotic meds today or yesterday ?




Drat! I took two of the red ones and just one of the blue ones... I got it all backwards! Please gave me another chance! You can’t hold me responsible for my “ignorance” my “lack of love” and all of that “ Paul worship” stuff.....It was the drugs !


Seriously though.....I was addressing a general audience like I usually do....I failed to make that clear....I was not even thinking of you personally when I wrote the post...I usually write “ past” the author of a post, knowing that nobody ever changes anybody’s minds in these Forums .....I am usually reaching out to help the Newbies in the crowd before they get ruined with Legalism and Lordship Salvation Error , or Rejecting Grace and the OSAS Teachings Of Jesus and Paul....

I can understand how you took it personally and I take the blame.....it was my fault....I spend many hours a day in here and I get in a hurry and I am not as careful as I should be...for that,I apologize.....

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Have you had your psychotic meds today or yesterday ?




Drat! I took two of the red ones and just one of the blue ones... I got it backwards! Please gave me another chance! You can’t hold me responsible for my ignorance, lack of love and all of that “ Paul worship” stuff.....It was the drugs !


Seriously though.....I was addressing a general audience like I usually do....I failed to make that clear....I was not even thinking of you personally when I wrote the post...I usually write “ past” the author of a post, knowing that nobody ever changes anybody’s minds in these Forums .....I am usually reaching out to help the Newbies in the crowd before they get ruined with Legalism and Lordship Salvation Error , or Rejecting Grace and the OSAS Teachings Of Jesus and Paul....

I can understand how you took it personally and I take the blame.....it was my fault....I spend many hours a day in here and I get in a hurry and I am not as careful as I should be...for that,I apologize.....

I accept your apology and you are forgiven !

I understand what you are saying and need your forgiveness as well, I'm sorry I snapped back.

I too only want to help ppl but we must also try not to offend any. It is hard to keep your spirit still when the Spirit has given you understanding.

I get my psycho drugs cofused at times too , mine are pink and purple.......

 

[WalkInLight]

Our love and choices are authentic precisely because God controls it all.

If you tell me you disagree, then you expose yourself with a problem.

If you think choice and love cannot be authentic for God controlling it all, then you must think God is not the Standard of authenticity.

You are saying "It is not real unless God takes His hands out of it and I get the spotlight."

The implication of such a position disgusts me. It is rebellion and self worship.

There is a term, called reductionism. It is very useful in science when a complex system can be
reduced down into its essentials, and then behaviour explained from there.

I am not the Lord, or able to see the layers of how He works and why He works, other than to
bring love through and His glory out.

And that's where I leave it. Authentic. I know how much I am an instrument of circumstance,
society, relationships, science and knowledge as well as spiritual reality. So I just follow as the
Lord who defines it all has called me and I am at rest.

God bless you

 

[WalkInLight]

Just for the record.....my life is full of Joy....( you might not know it from some of my “ angry” posts ) .......there is a thing called “ righteous anger”, and that’s what I have at times.....I can promise that you will see it whenever I see a “ False and Perverted” Gospel being promoted.....I am like God in one aspect....I HATE “Leaven”.....The Leaven Of Legalism That destroyed most of the churches that Paul founded ( All Of Asia Minor has deserted me).....I see myself as God's “Pit- Bull” in the fight against Leaven ( Jesus Saves— BUT!) and you and others will just have to deal with it....
When it comes to Salvation, it’s “ Nothing But The Blood” —— a FREE GIFT! Go beyond that ? You are Spreading Leaven, and you can count on being “ admonished”.... Those that can’t handle the heat need to get out of the kitchen....

I have met a lot of people who claim their anger is "righteous anger"
My question would be to anyone who puts this forward is have they a history of conflict and anger in their past?
Are they picking battles because of how it makes them feel or because it is real?
Do the targets of their anger deserve it and does it actually serve a purpose?

My post was about salvation being set on an outward declaration of faith, "Jesus is Lord" and an inward belief of this reality.
This belief is knowing Jesus as God and doing what He says because He is God.

This is what the gospel is, becoming like Jesus, walking in His ways, being His ambassador here on earth.
Co-heirs with Christ, cleansed, anointed and sent out.

Now if this deserves anger and condemnation, then those condemning are condemning Gods salvation and walk with Him.

But this is the problem with anger, when anger desires a mission or cause. I have a relative whose character loves missions,
which is whatever belief system he is in at the moment. There is always friends and enemies, and they vigorously oppose the
enemy. They have not yet realised they love this idea of friend and foe, not that it has any real truth or reality, it gives them
meaning.

Alex Jones, liar, fraudster, supporter of conspiracy ideas and divider of people is one such individual. To him creating this
massive invented war is his mission and the way he makes money. Look at how many "believers" follow this view of society
and life, and you realise how lost so many are, and want deeply to believe they are in the situation they are because of the
conspiracies and not something more complex about modern life and the economy.

God bless you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I wonder after reading some of your other posts, do you not realise you have decided who and what God is before reading His own words and His own description of how He interacts with others.

To follow God means you follow a God who wrestled with Jacob

24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.
25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.
26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak." But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
Gen 32:24-26

This is such an odd passage unless the Lord is actually saying, I come alongside you as you are and interact at your level.
I wrestled with my son, it is innate in growing up for guys, as I have observed.

I am open to whatever the Lord lays on my heart and reveals to me through His word.
It is far more nuanced and involved than I ever realised.

People say the universe makes us feel small, with galaxies and vastness beyond our imagination.
But in all this vastness, God and love are way more significant, and outshine everything else.

God bless you

It’s hard for many to break the strongholds that have been built up in their mind. In Calvinism: Some have claimed that they believe in a Calvinistic god even before they heard of Calvinistic teachings. But I don’t think this is really many people. Most believe in Calvinism because they heard of Calvinistic teachings from their either their church (i.e. Reformed church or Presbyterian), Calvinistic websites, YouTube videos, etcetera. Some look to the canons of Dort (The primary teachings of Calvinism) as if it was just as inspired as the Bible (By the way they treat it). It’s the same problem in Non-Calvinistic Protestantism. The problem always comes back to inserting outside ideas into the Bible where they don’t belong. One may be able to make a particular verse or passage say a particular thing they desire, but if they were to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word, they would realize that their belief is not supported. But of course they ignore other witnesses in Scripture that refutes their belief because they like their particular belief. They either like the idea of the Calvinistic god, or they like the idea of the Non-Calvinistic Protestant god. They are both false gods because they don’t exist in light of looking at the whole of Scripture.

“But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.” (Jeremiah 10:10).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As BB told you.
God chastens every Son of God.
You misunderstand this as PUNISH, and that is why you are confused.
The "chastening of God", brought to every Son/Daughter of God, is not punishment.
Its correction. Its the correcting of our inner man so that we become more like God's holiness.

You are not arguing with me, but you are arguing against what words mean.
According to Webster's (at King James Bible Dictionary), the word “chasten” means “to correct by punishment.”

Source:
King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Chasten

This makes sense, because if one sees their dog pooping on the carpet, they would yell at the dog, etcetera as a form of punishment to get the animal to stop (i.e. correction). If a person were to reward the animal (the opposite of punishment) for pooping on the carpet, then they would be insane. I remember one time in delivering a pizza to an old man's house one time, and all over his carpets in the background was landmines of dog poop everywhere. The smell of death that came from that house was unimaginable and I had to wait about 5 minutes or so for him to find his checkbook to write me a check (as the screen door vented it's horrible toxins of dog poop my way as I gagged at the smell). Here in this case, this old man was not correcting or punishing his dog for pooping on the carpets. He just let the animal go wild and free to poop freely.

See, real holiness is not trying to be like Christ, as any Devil can perform that ACT.
Real holiness is a inner perfection that is holy.

This runs contrary to Scripture.

1 John 3:8 (KJB)
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”

Who is the “he” that is righteous in this verse?

It's Jesus.

Romans 6:4-6 (NKJV)
“Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.”

Romans 6:22-23 (NKJV)
“...and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death,...”

1 Peter 4:1-2 (NKJV)
“Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.”

Philippians 2:5-11 (NKJV)
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Now pay close attention to this next verse that follows.

Philippians 2:12
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;”

This obedience in Philippians 2:12 is in relation to how we are to have the same mind of Christ in that He humbled himself in being obedient to the point of death.

1 John 2:5-6 (KJB)
“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NKJV)
“but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

See, all believers have strongholds of attitude, opinion, self righteousness, habits, and often, they have addictions.
So, God works on this, in us, for our benefit, if we are born again.

This is like reversed Calvinism. You are shirking your responsibility. Calvinists do not believe we have free will when it comes to accepting the Lord Jesus. You have appeared to do the same when it comes to working your salvation with fear and trembling, which is in context to obedience (Philippians 2:12).

In your belief: There is no fear of God because sin cannot separate you from God.

Romans 3:18 says:
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

You believe that the saint will only lose rewards and not their salvation because of sin or in being unfruitful.

So the point of chastisement is useless. There is nothing God could ever do to you (i.e. chastisement) that you truly make you fear Him. You got your keys to Heaven. Nothing to worry about. Just keep on sinning and live up the good life. You can have one foot in the Kingdom and one foot in the devil’s camp. You can be lukewarm and not be spewed out Jesus’ mouth. You got your fantasy candy land OSAS mumbo jumbo to save you and not the words of the Lord (in His Word).

You say God will work in you if you are born again. But then why are we told the following things in Scripture?

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

These truths mentioned above Scripture would not exist if things are as you say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

.....and immediately Paul insists that 'it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure'.

One truth does not undo another.

Yes, it is true that Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

However, a believer is told by the apostle Paul to be careful to maintain good works.

Titus 3:8
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works...”

We are told by the apostle Paul to LEARN to maintain good works so as not to be unfruitful.

Titus 3:14
“And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.”

Paul says that vain deceivers (Which can be anyone) who profess that they know God and yet they deny God by being reprobate unto every good work (i.e. they are unfruitful).

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So Paul says in Titus 3:14 to LEARN to maintain good works. God is not going to force you to do good works. You have to LEARN to maintain good works so as not to be unfruitful. WhY? Because if you are unfruitful you can profess to know God but you would be denying Him in being reprobate unto every good work. In other words, those who deny God are not saved. This is why we have to be fruitful. For the fruit is the proof that Jesus is living in us (Who is the source of our salvation). This aligns with 1 John 2:3 that basically says that we can have an assurance that we know the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments. For 1 John 2:4 basically says that the person who says they know the Lord and yet they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them.

In addition, a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. For Hebrews 10:30 says, “The Lord shall judge his people.” If it was all God doing the good work with no responsibility on our part to do them, then God would be judging Himself at the Judgment and not us. But that does not make any sense.

In other words, we have to decide to do good works and act upon doing them and God will work in our life as we do them. It's like in the OT battles. They had to act upon obeying God by faith in going out to battle at times when the odds were against them, but when they did act out in faith to fight (when the odds were against them), it was the Lord their God who was helping them to win the battle. But they had to choose to step out in faith to obey first. God was not going to fight the battle always for them. They had to choose to obey by faith. This is our instructions, as well. But we fight a spiritual battle today and not a physical one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You don't have a leg to stand on with your definition of "fear and trembling."

We've been through that, so why are you still using it in contradiction to scripture?

In Acts 5, when Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Spirit and died, the church (and all who heard about it) a great fear came upon them.

Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11
“But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.”

We who tremble at His Word are to hear (obey) the word of the Lord.

Isaiah 66:5 says:
“Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.”

This in context to doing what God says.

Isaiah 66:4
“I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”

Proverbs 16:6
“...by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.”

But in your version of fear, there is no need to depart fully from evil. You can sin and still be saved. You have no fear of God before your eyes.

Paul speaks about those who have no fear of God before their eyes.

Romans 3:18
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Tremble and fear mentioned together obviously refers to fear (Which aligns with basic English dictionaries).

The same Greek word φόβος (phobos) (Strong's G5401) used for the English word “fear” used in Philippians 2:12 is translated as terror in Romans 13:3.

Source:
King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Tremble

Source:
BlueLetterBible - Greek word - Phobos

This is in context to how government rulers or authorities (like the government laws, army, or police) are not a terror (something to be feared) if we do good works.

Government authorities is a minister of God for good because they imprison criminals like murderers, rapists, thieves, etcetera. But if you do evil (sin), be afraid. For these ministers of God (the government authorities like the police or army) does not bear the sword (weapons) in vain. For they execute wrath (justice) upon that person who does evil.

Romans 13:4
“For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”

This again shows the concept or idea that we are to fear in doing evil because if one does not fear in doing evil, they can end up being shot by the police, placed behind bars with very limited freedoms, and or potentially raped by prison inmates, etcetera (and they are ultimately resisting God - See Romans 13:1-2). So just as you should fear in doing evil and being punished by the Law, you should do so in regards to fearing God because He can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (See: Matthew 10:28).

 

[Charlie24]

In Acts 5, when Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Spirit and died, the church (and all who heard about it) a great fear came upon them.

Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11
“But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.”

We who tremble at His Word are to hear (obey) the word of the Lord.

Isaiah 66:5 says:
“Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.”

This in context to doing what God says.

Isaiah 66:4
“I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”

Proverbs 16:6
“...by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.”

But in your version of fear, there is no need to depart fully from evil. You can sin and still be saved. You have no fear of God before your eyes.

Paul speaks about those who have no fear of God before their eyes.

Romans 3:18
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Tremble and fear mentioned together obviously refers to fear (Which aligns with basic English dictionaries).

The same Greek word φόβος (phobos) (Strong's G5401) used for the English word “fear” used in Philippians 2:12 is translated as terror in Romans 13:3.

Source:
King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Tremble

Source:
BlueLetterBible - Greek word - Phobos

This is in context to how government rulers or authorities (like the government laws, army, or police) are not a terror (something to be feared) if we do good works.

Government authorities is a minister of God for good because they imprison criminals like murderers, rapists, thieves, etcetera. But if you do evil (sin), be afraid. For these ministers of God (the government authorities like the police or army) does not bear the sword (weapons) in vain. For they execute wrath (justice) upon that person who does evil.

Romans 13:4
“For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”

This again shows the concept or idea that we are to fear in doing evil because if one does not fear in doing evil, they can end up being shot by the police, placed behind bars with very limited freedoms, and or potentially raped by prison inmates, etcetera (and they are ultimately resisting God - See Romans 13:1-2). So just as you should fear in doing evil and being punished by the Law, you should do so in regards to fearing God because He can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (See: Matthew 10:28).

The difference is night and day in comparison to the way Luke used "fear" in Acts and a the way Paul used "fear and trembling" in his epistles.

Paul used the phrase "fear and trembling" twice in his letters, when you compare the two it is impossible that "fear and trembling" carries the definition you have claimed!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Could you explain the difference between the two words that are both translated "work" in this passage?

Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

In vs. 12, katergadzomai is used. In vs. 13, ergon is used. How would you describe the difference in the meanings of both those words?

Much love!

When we look at the words work out in Philippians 2:12 this is in context to working out your salvation with fear and trembling (which is within the same verse). This is in context to how we are to have the like mind that Christ had in that He was obedient to the Father unto death (See: Philippians 2:5, and Philippians 2:8). This is in context to Philippians 2:12 that says that the Philippians were not only obedient in Paul’s presence, but also they were obedient in his absence. So work out is in context or relation to being obedient to God. Just looking at the word work in the Greek (κατεργάζομαι) (katergazomai) in Philippians 2:12 shows that most of its occurrences is in light or view of working. We have to figure out daily and or keep doing the good work to completion to the end goal of our salvation. Just as Jacob wrestled with God. We too must also wrestle every day in doing His good work by our surrendering our lives to Him, and allowing Him to do the good work through us (i.e. so that He may bless us with His working in us to do good).

Psalms 36:1
“Transgression speaks to the ungodly within his heart;
There is no fear of God before his eyes.”

Genesis 20:11
“Abraham said, “Because I thought, surely there is no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.”

Ecclesiastes 8:13
“But it will not go well for the evil person and he will not lengthen his days like a shadow, because he does not fear God.”

Proverbs 1:29
“For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD”

Source:
Blue Letter Bible - work out G2716

Philippians 2:13 is talking about God effectually working in us (convicting us, and His working upon our heart) to do of His good pleasure (i.e. to do what He says within His Holy Word, the Bible or the New Testament). This is not something that is forced against our will because Paul says we have to be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8). Paul also says that we have to LEARN to maintain good works so as not to be unfruitful, too (Titus 3:14). To be unfruitful means one is a vain deceiver who professes that they know God but they deny God by being reprobate unto every good work (See: Titus 1:16, cf. Titus 1:10). For the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30).

We are told to add to our faith in following certain holy instructions (involving our doing something like godliness, and brotherly kindness, etcetera) so as to make our calling and election sure, and so that we may never fall so as to gain entrance into the everlasting kingdom (Please read 2 Peter 1:3-11) (Note: Obeying this instruction by faith of course is after we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works in our Initial Salvation - Ephesians 2:8-9).

Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”

The context of Luke 13:24 is Jesus saying,

“depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity” (Luke 13:27).
These were they who ate and drank in His presence.
In other words, they justified evil or sin and that is why they did not make it into God’s Kingdom. Hence, why we are to strive to enter the straight gate (or the narrow way). For many seek to enter but are not able. Why? Because most Christians today justify sin. They are of the many and not of the few.

1 Peter 2:11
“Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;”

Galatians 6:7-9
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

1 Timothy 6:12
“Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

Source:
Blue Letter Bible - worketh G1754

 

[Behold]

So work out is in context or relation to being obedient to God. Just looking at the word work in the Greek (κατεργάζομαι) (katergazomai) in Philippians 2:12 shows that most of its occurrences is in light or view of working. We have to figure out daily and or keep doing the good work to completion to the end goal of our salvation.

You are teaching that doing works, is to "work out your salvation", and that is not the case.
Salvation is not related to a person's works nor does it require it.
So, what you've down is create the false idea that salvation is works of obedience, and of course that is the gospel of works, or Legalism.

"work out your salvation". has nothing to do with trying to do works of obedience.
"work out your salvation" is to understood that YOU HAVE IT......You possess Salvation that is the eternal Gift of God....if you are born again.
And now understanding that you possess it, you are to learn how to exist IN IT< with the renewed mind of understanding regarding what it means to be a possessor of God's Grace,...... and works have no part in that, at all.

Salvation puts your spirit in the KOG< having become "ONE WITH GOD", and there is no law or commandments found there...and that is where the born again exist "in Christ".
What is found there, is RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having this now, has to be understood correctly and gaining this revelation is how you "work out your salvation".
Also, "fear and trembling", does not mean to be afraid of God.......but its to be in reverential awe of God our Father.
A solid paraphrase is....>"work out your salvation in, Awe and Wonder".