The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Bible Highlighter]

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2.1-7)

Again, being by nature a children of wrath (Which is true) does not mean Inability to choose Jesus Christ. We are saved by God’s grace but it is THROUGH faith. Jesus marveled at the Centurion’s faith. This would be silly if it was God the Father who gave the Centurion his faith whereby Jesus marveled at something the Father did. Jesus is one with the Father. So obviously Jesus is marveling at something the Centurion did (Which was his exercising faith in Jesus).

I see Ephesians 2 as referring to Partial Depravity, and not Total Depravity.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2.1-7)

Scripture has to be read with reading other Scripture.

Jesus said,

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.” (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).

So we see here that Jesus (who is GOD) wants to gather the Jews in Jerusalem, but THEY would not let him, and it was not because God the Father or Himself did not regenerate them by His choice.

 

[farouk]

Again, being by nature a children of wrath (Which is true) does not mean Inability to choose Jesus Christ. We are saved by God’s grace but it is THROUGH faith. Jesus marveled at the Centurion’s faith. This would be silly if it was God the Father who gave the Centurion his faith whereby Jesus marveled at something the Father did. Jesus is one with the Father. So obviously Jesus is marveling at something the Centurion did (Which was his exercising faith in Jesus).

I see Ephesians 2 as referring to Partial Depravity, and not Total Depravity.

It says 'dead'.

 

[Rudometkin]

Phrases and their meaning should never be seen in isolation.

You had to see my phrase in isolation in order to address it.

How am I supposed to take this seriously?

 

[Rudometkin]

It says 'dead'.

It is crystal clear, dead means inability...

 

[farouk]

It is crystal clear, dead means inability...

A dead man doesn't need to be read his rights...........

 

[Behold]

Where does the Bible say that God must always chastise us even if we live righteously?

As BB told you.
God chastens every Son of God.
You misunderstand this as PUNISH, and that is why you are confused.
The "chastening of God", brought to every Son/Daughter of God, is not punishment.
Its correction. Its the correcting of our inner man so that we become more like God's holiness.

See, real holiness is not trying to be like Christ, as any Devil can perform that ACT.
Real holiness is a inner perfection that is holy.

See, all believers have strongholds of attitude, opinion, self righteousness, habits, and often, they have addictions.
So, God works on this, in us, for our benefit, if we are born again.

 

[WalkInLight]

You had to see my phrase in isolation in order to address it.

How am I supposed to take this seriously?

There are semantics, in sentences, which can be taken more than one way.
And yes to see a phrase you can interpret into all the possible options it could mean, and then filter out the
ones one commonly understands. Some languages are better at this than others. I hear Arabic is very bad
at this so sentences often mean too many different things and need long clarification to get precise.

It helps if two people believe similar things so they are speaking to a common set of assumptions.
I take it your assumptions differ from mine quite a bit, so we are having difficulty :)

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I assume you are trying to address me.
"in your belief" - this is an all encompassing statement about my belief which I have not shared.

Maybe you know something more than I do, but your description, "chastisement does not serve any purpose" is not something I hold to.
Repentance, humbleness, accepting guilt and committing to walking righteously is part of following Jesus.

Maybe the use of statement and answer to a position has been miss-understood, which I can understand.
I just thought it would be useful to express my desire to understand what you are addressing, as you seem very distressed.

God bless you

I agree many ppl are lost,have only a religious practice thinking they are saved. Some love to read the word but look at it as if it were just a book.

They can debate,discuss and argue like a philosophy student but there in ZERO life in them. Jesus said " I am the life,the truth and the way" yet they carry on without him !

They reject the Spirit who convicts of sin, hold to man made doctrines that appeal to them, deny what the word says by contorting it's context, cherry picking scriptures and refuse the PRACTICES COMMANDED therein !

It is the BIGGEST tragedy of the followers of God.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

How many in this discussion believe that after salvation even after walking with God for many years something can happen to shipwreck your faith and you leave God and walk again w/ o salvation?

I know the ratchet misquoting of Christ finished work, the I'll never leave you misinterpretation quote and well if they leave they NEVER were of us, which is all balderdash!

If you don't believe in free will I get it but that's an untruth to think God chooses some for Salvation and some to eternal destruction !
It goes against ever scripture of GOD'S UNCOMNDEMING, MERCIFUL LOVE!

I know too ppl say well youre a salvation loser,were never saved, don't understand the word, not led of the Spirit, yada yada.
BALDERDASH

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Won't it truly be a sad day having believed a lie of delusion and be damned through all time ?
( however that may exist )

God sees ALL, the heart, the actions and the words,everything pertaining to each individual!

How will you be judged ? Will it be by Jesus,whom we FOLLOW or by God whom we REJECTED?

It's a hard question, one only you can answer if you examine and are honest with ourselves!

 

[farouk]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d I love that verse at Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

 

[WalkInLight]

How many in this discussion believe that after salvation even after walking with God for many something can happen to shipwreck your faith and you leave God and walk again w/ o salvation?

I know the ratchet misquoting of Christ finished work, the I'll never leave you misinterpretation quote and well if they leave they NEVER were of us, which is all balderdash!

If you don't believe in free will I get it but that's an untruth to think God chooses some for Salvation and some to eternal destruction !
It goes against ever scripture of GOD'S UNCOMNDEMING, MERCIFUL LOVE!

I know too ppl say well youre a salvation loser,were never saved, don't understand the word, not led of the Spirit, yada yada.
BALDERDASH

Two different perspectives Paul gives. Some left his ministry and went back to the world.
Paul had believers opposing him and preaching to get him into trouble. His answer was to praise the Lord the Lord was being preached. He avoided judging anothers approach or faith, but said simply we should wait until the Lord passes judgement at the last trumpet when all will be revealed.

I balance this with the insight the lost or weeds in the church will not suddenly be brought to faith because they have been rooted out, rather the weak or less sure will be disturbed and find walking in Christ harder. I can relate to this, as it is difficult when church leaders turn out to be fallen and in serious difficulty. Praise the Lord He is gracious and encouraging despite these trials.

God bless you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It says 'dead'.

And so you just ignore Matthew 23:37 in order to make your wrong interpretation work? Dead spiritually by our sins does not mean inability to choose Christ under His drawing. Parallels or analogies are not exact 100%.

For example: Jesus says He is a door (John 10:9), but does that mean Christ is made out of materials similar to a door and He has hinges and a door knob? Surely not.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d I love that verse at Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

I love ALL THE SCRIPTURES RIGHTLY DIVIDED in context under the Holy Ghost teaching.

We cannot cut out the parts we like and make them stand alone. God didn't intend and it does not work that way.

Isolation of a scripture leaves us as a target for Satan to come as an angel of light and lead us into a lie,believing a delusion!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d I love that verse at Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

But Philippians 1:6 needs to balanced with reading and believing other verses.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d I love that verse at Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

Even the context of the next chapter says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

 

[farouk]

Even the context of the next chapter says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

.....and immediately Paul insists that 'it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure'.

 

[Charlie24]

Even the context of the next chapter says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

You don't have a leg to stand on with your definition of "fear and trembling."

We've been through that, so why are you still using it in contradiction to scripture?

 

[marks]

Even the context of the next chapter says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

Could you explain the difference between the two words that are both translated "work" in this passage?

Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

In vs. 12, katergadzomai is used. In vs. 13, ergon is used. How would you describe the difference in the meanings of both those words?

Much love!