The problem with "Free Palestine"

[lforrest]

Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Have you ever thought that God deliberately keeps people really in disobedience or unbelief?

It is entirely possible that certain peoples are bound to unbelief. Wasn't Ishmael conceived in unbelief?

But they are still called to Jesus as is everyone else in the world. And Jesus appears to them in dreams as they are not easy to reach. With courage to defy their society and love for the truth they may yet believe on an individual basis.

 

[Rockerduck]

Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Have you ever thought that God deliberately keeps people really in disobedience or unbelief?

I think the Apostle Paul sums it up well.

2 Corinthians 4:3-43 - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I know that's what historians say, but the Bible says otherwise. It says they are descended through Mizraim the son of Ham:

Gen 10: Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, and Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.

That makes them native to the area. They aren't the "sea peoples" after all.

And if you can't figure out that the Romans named the area after them, I don't think I can help with that level of willful blindness.

Sorry but Philistim does not relate to Palestinians. There maybe similar spelling but that is all. Etymology and Genealogies show differently. You cannot trace any connection of Palestinians to Philisitm. If they were the descendants of Philisitim or the Philisitnes we could trace the heritage from the ancient times to today.

If you can trace a genealogy of Philisitm to modern Palestinians, that would be noteworthy. But the Land was known as Palestine and has been occupied by many many many nationalities over teh centuries. Palestinians descend from many many different Arab ethnic groups.

Maybe you should tone down your rudeness. You haven't shown any scholarship to show Philistim=Palestinains other than your say so because of a similarityu of some letters. Jesus said before you compalikn about my toothpick- you should check the log in your eye.

 

[Wick Stick]

Sorry but Philistim does not relate to Palestinians. There maybe similar spelling but that is all.

They're the same word but in two different languages.

Etymology and Genealogies show differently.

There are no genealogies of the Philistines OR the Palestinians.

You cannot trace any connection of Palestinians to Philisitm. If they were the descendants of Philisitim or the Philisitnes we could trace the heritage from the ancient times to today.

We agree on this point. DNA comparison shows that modern Palestinians are predominantly descendants of the Canaanites, with a splash of Arabic tribes.

If you can trace a genealogy of Philisitm to modern Palestinians, that would be noteworthy.

No it wouldn't. The New Testament clearly teaches us to ignore genealogies.

But the Land was known as Palestine and has been occupied by many many many nationalities over teh centuries. Palestinians descend from many many different Arab ethnic groups.

Mostly Canaanites actually, but there's some of that. As I wrote earlier in this topic, the Roman historians record that when their armies reached Gaza in the 1st century, it was an uninhabited ruin. The Philistines have been extinct for a long time.

Maybe you should tone down your rudeness. You haven't shown any scholarship to show Philistim=Palestinains other than your say so because of a similarity of some letters. Jesus said before you complain about my toothpick- you should check the log in your eye.

Well then stop being such a bone-head. I prefer to quote the Bible, but since you're asking for something scholarly, here you go:

The term "Palestine" (in Latin, Palæstina) comes via ancient Greek from a Semitic toponym for the general area dating back to the late second millennium BCE, a reflex of which is also to be found in the Biblical ethnonym Philistines.

from Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History. by Nur Masalha (15 August 2018).

Or, there's like a whole Wikipedia stub about it here

 

[quietthinker]

Which part exactly?

Whatever the primary text is in your initial post

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Islam is a good religion for savagers to keep such people in line. in their own Lands.
Democracy would not be good for savegers to live under ? because they will only run ammock causing nothing but trouble !

Same with anyone who is out of control bastard type person, anyone who's intent is to kill other people and has no regards who they kill as well are Bastards who have no right to be loose in our society at all ! Like go away We don't want such people at all !

What is it with the love for Islamist Terrorist that the Left has and does idolised all such freeks, not to mention how many of the queers are in love with Islam, they promote them ! not to mention Islam will kill every queer on the spot ! so the Queers are under the curse of Satan ! they are clearly depraved brainwashed retards morons in fact ! And Islam does not let such people live in their Lands in fact.

Islam does not have everything wrong for their own society of 2ed rate people one could say ? so as their religion is for them to prosper ? not totaly a depraved society of retards but a ordered one, or of a order for that type of beast ?

Now we can see that the West has been and is devolving so fast ! because of the Satanist peddling all of their outright Lies !
So why is all that trash that we have seen over the years been totaly promoted ? It's so as to bring about Communism in fact, so they the Satanist can totaly dominate over everyone in fact !

Gutless depraved and stupid idiot moronic people clearly do always lack Virtue !

When did you last see a Political Party promoting Virtue ? or call out Malice as a outright lowest of the low act of any person !
If anyone promotes or carrys out malice, they should be slaped in the face directly and called out for such a low act on the spot ! such is a disgrace, not to mention Malice has no place in the Kingdom of God in fact !

The Socialist motto is Malice ? that's what they use against Trump 24/7 in fact ! Stupid idiot Malice.
People who do the wrong thing are what the left promote in fact !

I know of good Arab Semitic people who are much better people than a lot of Australians are nowadays in fact, but they came here to get away from the Hell of Islam. and our Government could not discriminate between the good and the bad, that they imported into Australia ? because of their Satanic Idolitry of their idiot discrimination gods, they can not discriminate ? between the good and the bad in fact ! and they pride themselves on such outright ignorance in fact !

So if I said, see I can see that this Arab person will make a fine person in Australia ! but in regards of another, will not because clearly such a one will only cause a hell of a lot of troubles in our Nation in the future. but The Satanist Government clearly openly could not give a rats arse in fact ! because they are hell bent on causeing nothing but trouble in fact.

 

[Jack]

No problem at all. God will work it out. Israel will be BLESSED, again and again.

 

[Jericho]

Whatever the primary text is in you initial post

Some of it is from research I did years ago, some of it is from memory. If you think something is in error, then let me know.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They're the same word but in two different languages.

Prove it.

There are no genealogies of the Philistines OR the Palestinians.

Yes there is. Google and Wikipedia are your friend. I can trace Philistines for centuries courtesy of wiki. they are one of many Caananite tribes.

No it wouldn't. The New Testament clearly teaches us to ignore genealogies.

Wrong again. It tells us to not get involved in genealogical arguments as to whom is superior. But there is no wrong in tracing ethnic groups. That is why we know Magog is Russia and Mescech and Tubal settled in Russia and founded cities now called Moscow and Tobolsk.

Well then stop being such a bone-head. I prefer to quote the Bible, but since you're asking for something scholarly, here you go:

"The term "Palestine" (in Latin, Palæstina) comes via ancient Greek from a Semitic toponym for the general area dating back to the late second millennium BCE, a reflex of which is also to be found in the Biblical ethnonym Philistines."

Now you need to look at what you source.
The Ancient Greeks have no timeline for the term. the only appearance of "Palestine" is one writing of Herodotus in renaming Israel as a district of Syria. Palestine is a retranslation (reflex) of Philisita But it was not a widely known name for the region as the Term Israel and Judah were. The northern kingdom was now part of Syria while Judah was still intact.

Prior to 96BC, Gaza (Philisita) was home to the Nabateans and was a major shippiong port. No Palestinians there.

Once again you need to show the history of Philisitia becoming Palestine. The Philisitines were there for a long time and the land was not desginated as "Syria Palaestinia" until the end of the Bar Kochba revolt in 135 AD.

So save your ad-hominems. You are being very un-christ like.

 

[Wick Stick]

Prove it.

I already did using Scripture AND 2 scholarly sources. At this point I'm going to chalk this up as your refusing to see your own hand in front of your face. Moving on...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I already did using Scripture AND 2 scholarly sources. At this point I'm going to chalk this up as your refusing to see your own hand in front of your face. Moving on...

Well you did not use Scripture. You merely showed the word Philistim and said it means Palestine without evidence. No evidence or etymology, just your declaration.

The term Palestinian as a people was first used in 1909! also it wasn't until Yassar Arafat that Palestine was considered a specific land.

There were no Palestian people. there were the varied Caananite tribes, the Nabateans, varied Arab tribes that at time were called Palestinian Arabs. Palestine did not refer to a nation or ethnic group but to a general land area.

The area was under control by the following:

1. Caananites
2. Israel
3. Babylon
4. Medes and Persians
5. Greece
6. Rome
7 Rashiduns
8. Umayyads
9. Abbasids
10. Tulunids
11. Ikhshidids
12. Fatimids
13 Seljuks
14. Ayyubid Sultanate
15 Malmuks
16. Ottoman empire
17. Great Britian
18. Israel once again!

Once again no empire or city state called palestine. It was an amalgam of differing tribes from 5 cities:

"Philistia[a] was a confederation of five main cities or pentapolis in the Southwest Levant, made up of principally Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Gath, and for a time, Jaffa (part of present-day Tel Aviv-Yafo"

"The words “Palestine” or “Filastin” do not appear in the Koran. “Palestine” is also not mentioned in the Old or New Testament. It does occur at least eight times in eight verses of the Hebrew concordance of the King James Bible.

Though the definite origins of the word “Palestine” have been debated for years and are still not known for sure, the name is believed to be derived from the Egyptian and Hebrew word peleshet, which appears in the Tanakh no fewer than 250 times. Roughly translated to mean rolling or migratory, the term was used to describe the inhabitants of the land to the northeast of Egypt – the Philistines. The Philistines were an Aegean people – more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguistically, or historically with Arabia – who conquered the Mediterranean coastal plain that is now Israel and Gaza in the 12th Century BCE."


See I don't just grab the facts out of thin air.

Now can you produce evidence to rebut this?

The region called Palestine (not amongst the biblical tribes named in the OT but outside writers) do not own an ethnic people. there never was a nation called Pal;estine. Gaza was once occupied by the Philisitnes but their connection to the term Palestine is only tenouous at best because the philisitnes were nomads with no established nation after their defeat by the Israeli people.

 

[Wick Stick]

Well you did not use Scripture.

Posts 20 & 32. Please don't lie just to justify yourself.

You merely showed the word Philistim and said it means Palestine without evidence. No evidence or etymology, just your declaration.

That's in post #44.

The term Palestinian as a people was first used in 1909! also it wasn't until Yassar Arafat that Palestine was considered a specific land.

Maybe I should ask you for a source for this.

there were the varied Caananite tribes, the Nabateans, varied Arab tribes that at time were called Palestinian Arabs. Palestine did not refer to a nation or ethnic group but to a general land area.

The area was under control by the following:

1. Caananites
2. Israel
3. Babylon
4. Medes and Persians
5. Greece
6. Rome
7 Rashiduns
8. Umayyads
9. Abbasids
10. Tulunids
11. Ikhshidids
12. Fatimids
13 Seljuks
14. Ayyubid Sultanate
15 Malmuks
16. Ottoman empire
17. Great Britian
18. Israel once again!

Once again no empire or city state called palestine. It was an amalgam of differing tribes from 5 cities:

You forgot one...

0. Philistines

"Philistia[a] was a confederation of five main cities or pentapolis in the Southwest Levant, made up of principally Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Gath, and for a time, Jaffa (part of present-day Tel Aviv-Yafo"

You just proved my original point. Thanks?

The words “Palestine” or “Filastin” do not appear in the Koran.

If you say so. I don't study the Koran.

“Palestine” is also not mentioned in the Old or New Testament. It does occur at least eight times in eight verses of the Hebrew concordance of the King James Bible.

Which is it? It does or doesn't?

I mean... it clearly does... but you don't recognize Philistine as being the same word as Palestine, even though that's already been proved here.

Though the definite origins of the word “Palestine” have been debated for years and are still not known for sure, the name is believed to be derived from the Egyptian and Hebrew word peleshet, which appears in the Tanakh no fewer than 250 times. Roughly translated to mean rolling or migratory, the term was used to describe the inhabitants of the land to the northeast of Egypt – the Philistines. The Philistines were an Aegean people – more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguistically, or historically with Arabia – who conquered the Mediterranean coastal plain that is now Israel and Gaza in the 12th Century BCE."

See I don't just grab the facts out of thin air.

No, you grab them from the Jewish Virtual Library, apparently. It's not the worst source, though it is run by a foreign-policy analyst rather than a historian, anthropologist, archaeologist, Biblical scolar, etc. I found your source and read it.

Now can you produce evidence to rebut this?

Other than the evidence I already produced? Yes.

Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews: "...the children of Mesraim, being eight in number, possessed the country from Gaza to Egypt, though it retained the name of one only, the Philistim; for the Greeks call part of that country Palestine."

Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, Onomasticon: "Philistines (Gen. 21:34). Now called Askalon, the well-known country of Palestine is round about it."

Here, read this wikipedia stub... it's a collection of scholarly quotes about were the name Palestine comes from. Spoiler: the word Philistin or Philistine are here over 50 times.
Timeline of the name Palestine - Wikipedia

The region called Palestine (not amongst the biblical tribes named in the OT but outside writers) do not own an ethnic people. there never was a nation called Pal;estine.

You just quoted Jewish Virtual Library saying that it was a Pentopolis.

the philisitnes were nomads with no established nation

Nomads don't build cities. The Philistines built a league of 5 of them.

after their defeat by the Israeli people.

Uh... the Israelites did NOT drive out the Philistines...

Now these are the nations which the LORD left, to prove Israel by them, even as many of Israel as had not known all the wars of Canaan;
Only that the generations of the children of Israel might know, to teach them war, at the least such as before knew nothing thereof; Namely, five lords of the Philistines, and all the Canaanites, and the Sidonians, and the Hivites that dwelt in mount Lebanon, from mount Baalhermon unto the entering in of Hamath.

They did fight several battles. At points the Philistines conquered THEM, and Israel subsequently managed to throw off their rule, but never managed to conquer the 5 cities of the Philistines.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

No problem at all. God will work it out. Israel will be BLESSED, again and again.

True Israelites are always Blessed in fact ! because they are servants of God in fact ! truly Saved born again Christian in fact are Blesed !
Most Jews in the State of Israel are not even worthy of the OT in fact !
That's why the bastards let the State be attacked in fact ! for they are Socialist that is their god. for they believe is a 2 State solution. Such as that nonsense will never work out well for real worthy Jews in fact ! Thank God for MP Ben !

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They're the same word but in two different languages.

Now just show it and not merely say it.

There are no genealogies of the Philistines OR the Palestinians.

Because there were no Palestinians and the Philistines were of Grecian ancestry

Posts 20 & 32. Please don't lie just to justify yourself.

No. You merely just listed the genealogy of Ham showing Philisitm and merely alleging Philistim means philistines which means palestinans without proof.

From Bible Hub:

"Biblical Lineage and Origin

Philistim is first mentioned in the Table of Nations in Genesis 10:14, where they are listed as descendants of Mizraim, the son of Ham, and thus part of the Hamitic lineage. The Berean Standard Bible states: "Pathrusim, Casluhim (from whom the Philistines came), and Caphtorim" (Genesis 10:14). This passage suggests a connection between the Philistines and the region of Caphtor, often identified with Crete or other Aegean islands."

The Philistines are not even related to Phisistim!
From the Greek Reporter:

"Did the Palestinians come from the Philistines?​

Since the Philistines were completely destroyed during the sixth to fourth centuries BCE, it is clear that no modern nation comes from them, including the Palestinians. So where did the Palestinians come from?

The answer to this question is both simple and complicated. It is simple in that the term ‘Palestinian’ refers to the people who historically lived in Palestine (originally including the Jews as well). The Greeks began using the term ‘Palestine’ to refer to the whole region between Egypt and Phoenicia. This term does come directly from ‘Philistine.’ The Greeks used this for the whole region because they were obviously more familiar with the coastal nation (the Philistines) than the inland one (the Israelites).

The diverse origin of the Palestinians​

Because the term ‘Palestinians’ emerged in modern times simply as a designation for those who lived in Palestine, it originally included a variety of ethnicities. However, most people living in Palestine when this distinct nationality began to emerge were Arabs. Therefore, the majority of Palestinians are Arabs. In fact, most of them are Muslim Arabs, but Christian Arabs in Palestine also identify as Palestinians."

From Metro Voice:


DNA shows Philistines, and modern-day Palestinians, were really European

July 5, 2019

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A dramatic and explosive DNA discovery in Israel has implications for the political struggle between Israelis and Palestinians. Three years ago, archaeologists digging in Israel revealed they had excavated a Philistine cemetery for the first time ever. Now, an extensive report on the DNA taken from the bones they uncovered has confirmed the origins of the Philistines – one of the arch-enemies of the biblical Israelites.
“We’ve been able to demonstrate for the first time that the Philistines were immigrants to the region of Philistia,” said Daniel Master, director of the Leon Levy Expedition to Ashkelon.

Scientists have long suspected that modern day Palestinians are not Arab, but actually descendants of European (and mainly pre-Greek) settlers in the region.
State-of-the-art DNA testing on the ancient Philistine bones showed they had European ancestry and migrated across the Mediterranean more than 3,000 years ago and just before the Israelites were given the land by God.

So sorry Philisitnes were Grecian and modern day "Palestinians" are ahybrid of many Arab, Jewish and European ethnicities and had no claim to the land.

You just proved my original point. Thanks?

But they didn't birth the Palestinians

You just quoted Jewish Virtual Library saying that it was a Pentopolis.

It was a confederation of five distinct and separate tribes

Nomads don't build cities. The Philistines built a league of 5 of them.

Nomads can and do settle down as proven by several differing tribes built the five cities. Which until they allied themselves to fight Israel, they had no formal alliance one with the other.

They did fight several battles. At points the Philistines conquered THEM, and Israel subsequently managed to throw off their rule, but never managed to conquer the 5 cities of the Philistines.

The Philistines are referred to as the descendants of the Casluchim in Genesis 10:14 and Exodus 13:17. Known as a seafaring nation, the Philistines were a non-Semitic people who left Crete and arrived in Canaan at the beginning of the 12th century B.C.E. The Philistines inhabited the Mediterranean coast of Canaan during the period of the Book of Judges. They founded five principalities - Gaza, Asheklon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.

Their highly-developed weapons brought a great threat to the Israelites. During the Exodus from Egypt, the Israelites purposely took a southern route to circumvent them. The Philistines often battled against the Israelites. The first King of Israel, Saul, temporarily weakened them. Later, a little-known shepherd by the name of David (later second King of Israel) defeated them after his battle with the large Philistine by the name of Goliath. The Philistines were reduced to mainly commercial ventures rather than military ventures. Throughout the Books of Kings, different Jewish leaders fought the nation until the Assyrians completely defeated them. The Philistines then assimilated into the surrounding cultures and ceased to exist as a separate nation.
​

792 - 740
Gath, Ashdod Destroyed
2Chronicles 26:6 - 7​

Azariah (Uzziah), who assumed the throne at age sixteen, was monarch of the Kingdom of Judah from 792 to 740. He is blessed with military successes since he follows the Lord like his father Amaziah.

One of Azariah's greatest victories was over the cities of Gath and Ashdod. He not only overcame the enemy but also tore down both of the cities' walls. In order to secure his control of the area he also constructed garrisons scattered throughout Philistine territory.

 

[Debp]

The Rabbi explains it all so simply.