The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Bible Highlighter]

The faith in Romans 4:2 is NOT referring to the work of faith.
Romans 4:2 is referring to “Works ALONE Salvationism” by thinking one had to first be circumcised to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12).

In James 2:24, James is talking about the work of faith that will follow after being saved by God’s grace. Paul is not talking about the work of faith that follows, but he is referring to a specific heresy involving circumcision.

 

[savedbygrace1]

As bible highlighter believes it is ''BALONEY'' to believe that when Paul repeatedly stressed you cannot be righteous/justified by obeying the law, he had primarily the moral law/ten commandments in mind when he continually stressed this. I'm afraid he will always struggle to understand justification

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Law covenant was indeed a tutor leading to the Christ sir. Make no mistake not one individual who goes to heaven has not "worked" for God, in fact they are extremely zealous in their service to Jehovah otherwise they would not have been selected.

Make no mistake, no one will make it to heaven BECAUSE they worked. Our works are a byproduct of being saved. Nt the means by which we are saved. The law should have taught you this. God as much told Israel and the world. If you want to be righteous and come to me by your own works. This is the standard (perfection). Anything short of this falls short of Gods glory, and you have forfeit your ability to save yourself by your deeds..

This is where grace came in.

Jesus made it quite clear however, that doing, yes doing the will of Jehovah is essential in having a relationship with Him, and by our obedience to His laws we show our love for Him 1 Jn 5:3. You can accept the assignment or not, but if you choose not to, do not be surprised where you hear the words of Jesus echoed in your case: (Matthew 25:24-30) . . .“Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

Yep.

But the slave did not go to hell because he did not work. He went to hell because he did not have faith. Because of his lack of faith. He was never saved and never did any work.

Stop focusing on works. Works will not save you.

If you want to try to get to heaven by works. Then God gave you the requirment, Cursed is EVERYONE who does not bey every word

There are two ways to heaven spoken of in scripture

The law (works)

Grace (the work of christ)

There is no other way. You can not mix grace and works. Paul made that clear

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As bible highlighter believes it is ''BALONEY'' to believe that when Paul repeatedly stressed you cannot be righteous/justified by obeying the law, he had primarily the moral law/ten commandments in mind when he continually stressed this. I'm afraid he will always struggle to understand justification

He is no better than the jews who could not understand it either.

He does not understand Grace, He seems to thing grace can be bought with works.

Paul made it clear. NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE….but by his mercy

Paul spoke of any good deed. And righteous deed. Any work.. not just works of the law

They reject grace and the blood of Christ which bought them

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No. Romans 14 is in regards to the kind of foods one can eat, and or what type of day of worship they are to observe. In other words, Romans 14 is dealing with the matters of how one views the Old Law. In other words, there is a liberty when it comes to the Old Law as long as we don’t make our brother to stumble in our liberty.

Those are still unintentional sins. Lack of God's truth. That was your question I was responding to. This is one thing that the RCC got right - the difference between mortal sins (sin unto death) and venial sins (sins NOT unto death.) Venial sins may also be inconsequential to one and no sin, but seem like a mortal sin to another who is so caught up in the Old Laws, like breaking the letter of the law 4th commandment, and not recognizing Jesus in it, the Spirit of the same law. It is a venial sin to them not unto death, but lack of knowledge of God's truth. In the New Covenant they are immature fruit of the Spirit. They are not so much lack of knowledge that you've done this thing, but lack of knowledge that it is wrong.

Venial sins:
Not against the Ten Commandments that is for sinners, but not bothering our conscience. Immature fruit.

Slipping a bit over the speed limit law. Keeping eyes on the road and not glued to the speedometer.
Cutting someone off in traffic by not seeing them. Not checking blind spots. No ex-ray vision.
Bullying someone out of your group to be popular with your like-minded friends. (Lack of brotherly kindness, empathy, love, and self-control)
A child eating an apple they pulled off their neighbor's tree without their knowledge.
Reading your horoscope for fun, not for direction in life. Even an Ouija board
Wasting money
Continuing eating when full.
procrastinating
forgetting your anniversary or an important date which hurts another
Making blanket untrue hurtful statements that start with "You always..."
committed boyfriend and girlfriend fornicating before marriage.
playing violent video games

You may be appalled at some of these and like me would never do them, but others could and not be damned. It has to do with only living up to the knowledge you have, but as we mature, we "see the light" on bullying, fornicating, etc.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That’s not what Ephesians 2:8-9 says. Nor does it teach such a thing.
If Ephesians 2:8-9 said that we are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross, it would have said that.
Being saved by God’s grace through faith without works is not saying the exact words saved solely by grace through faith in the finish work of the cross. They are two different sentences with entirely different meanings.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with our Initial Salvation. Just read the chapter and it will tell you this fact.
For how many times do you receive a gift?
How many times have you been quickened or made alive? (See: Ephesians 2:1).

Initial salvation????????????????????? there is only one salvation. The moment wew confess with out mouth and believe in out heart- We are saved once for all time.

Only one penalty and the remedy is faith. Both being saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation is a part of our faith just as much as Sanctification by the Spirit in the secondary aspect of salvation is a part of the faith.

All of your Bible is a part of the faith.

well at least you admit that God's Word is not enough. MOst heretics do a song and dance to hide what you just openly said!

That’s the problem with your belief that you cannot see. 1 John 1:7 basically says that if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording found in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother to have the blood of Jesus cleanse you from all sin (Which is dealing with our salvation). This is after we are saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation. But of course you gobble up what Protestants say blindly because a sin and still be saved type of belief is more comforting to you. But if you want to take a risk (or play games) with your own soul, then be my guest. Just know that your belief is not found in the Bible. Protestantism is not the Narrow way. It’s a big huge religion on planet Earth.

YOu obviously do not know the difference between salvation and sanctification.

thjere is our position- already seated in heavenly places and already perfected.

then their is our experience- growing and learning and having the physical consequences of sin removed and cleansed. YOur problem is you do not know th e bible and how to rightly divide the truth. That is why you have to add extra biblical stuff

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As bible highlighter believes it is ''BALONEY'' to believe that when Paul repeatedly stressed you cannot be righteous/justified by obeying the law, he had primarily the moral law/ten commandments in mind when he continually stressed this. I'm afraid he will always struggle to understand justification

First, the only way you know about the imaginary teaching of “Justification” is from the Protestant religion (Which caters to a person’s sin and still be saved mindset). You did not wake up one day and get this teaching directly from the Bible without a Protestant talking in your ear.

Second, when the Protestant reads the Bible, they have to cherry pick certain verses to make their “Diplomatic Immunity to Sin Doctrine” work. One can more easily twist Paul’s words on being Initially Saved by God’s grace without works in the 1st aspect of salvation. But they have to ignore other verses by Paul warning us about how certain sins can separate us from God (Galatians 5:19-21) (Colossians 3:5-7) (1 Timothy 5:8) (Romans 2:5-12) (Romans 11:21-22). All verses on falling away from the faith by Paul also have to be twisted or ignored, as well (Galatians 5:4) (Colossians 1:23) (1 Corinthians 9:27) (1 Timothy 1:19). They have to ignore or twist Paul talking about how Sanctification of the Spirit is a part of salvation, as well (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13).

Then again, Paul’s words have been twisted even during the time of the early church.
Peter says of Paul’s writings or words:

“Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16) (NLT).

Three, we are not under the 10 commandments or the 613 laws of Moses as a package deal. Those laws were given to Israel. While certain laws from the 613 laws of Moses and or 9 out of the 10 commands have carried over into the New Testament commands given to us by Jesus and His followers, we are not technically under the whole of the Old Law. Paul says we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14). This would be the Old Law. For Paul says in Romans 7:6 that we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the 613 Laws of Moses. Paul says he is not without Law but that he is under the Law(s) of Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21). Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting everlasting life in Luke 10:25-28. So obviously Paul does not disagree with our Lord Jesus’ words in Luke 10:25-28. If he did, he would be proud and he would know nothing. Can somebody who is proud be saved? Again, James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Think about that. If you justify sin under God’s grace… you are not being humble, but you are being proud. God never condones a believer in justifying sin because God is holy, good, and righteous and He always wants us to do good. That’s why your belief in Protestantism is just silly.

Four, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). There are 800 to 1 billion Protestants worldwide. That’s almost half of the pie out of 2.5 billion Christians. Surely this is not the narrow way if it is the majority of Christians who believe this way. I mean stop and think a moment. Why did Jesus warn certain Christians who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him? It’s because Jesus said that they also worked iniquity, too (See: Matthew 7:22-23). They justified sin under God’s grace. That’s why they didn’t make it into the Kingdom. Granted, do all Protestants hold to the Protestant view of Justification and Sanctification? I cannot answer that. Only God knows.

 

[savedbygrace1]

First, the only way you know about the imaginary teaching of “Justification” is from the Protestant religion (Which caters to a person’s sin and still be saved mindset). You did not wake up one day and get this teaching directly from the Bible without a Protestant talking in your ear.

Second, when the Protestant reads the Bible, they have to cherry pick certain verses to make their “Diplomatic Immunity to Sin Doctrine” work. One can more easily twist Paul’s words on being Initially Saved by God’s grace without works in the 1st aspect of salvation. But they have to ignore other verses by Paul warning us about how certain sins can separate us from God (Galatians 5:19-21) (Colossians 3:5-7) (1 Timothy 5:8) (Romans 2:5-12) (Romans 11:21-22). All verses on falling away from the faith by Paul also have to be twisted or ignored, as well (Galatians 5:4) (Colossians 1:23) (1 Corinthians 9:27) (1 Timothy 1:19). They have to ignore or twist Paul talking about how Sanctification of the Spirit is a part of salvation, as well (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13).

Then again, Paul’s words have been twisted even during the time of the early church.
Peter says of Paul’s writings or words:

“Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16) (NLT).

Three, we are not under the 10 commandments or the 613 laws of Moses as a package deal. Those laws were given to Israel. While certain laws from the 613 laws of Moses and or 9 out of the 10 commands have carried over into the New Testament commands given to us by Jesus and His followers, we are not technically under the whole of the Old Law. Paul says we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14). This would be the Old Law. For Paul says in Romans 7:6 that we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the 613 Laws of Moses. Paul says he is not without Law but that he is under the Law(s) of Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21). Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting everlasting life in Luke 10:25-28. So obviously Paul does not disagree with our Lord Jesus’ words in Luke 10:25-28. If he did, he would be proud and he would know nothing. Can somebody who is proud be saved? Again, James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Think about that. If you justify sin under God’s grace… you are not being humble, but you are being proud. God never condones a believer in justifying sin because God is holy, good, and righteous and He always wants us to do good. That’s why your belief in Protestantism is just silly.

Four, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). There are 800 to 1 billion Protestants worldwide. That’s almost half of the pie out of 2.5 billion Christians. Surely this is not the narrow way if it is the majority of Christians who believe this way. I mean stop and think a moment. Why did Jesus warn certain Christians who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him? It’s because Jesus said that they also worked iniquity, too (See: Matthew 7:22-23). They justified sin under God’s grace. That’s why they didn’t make it into the Kingdom. Granted, do all Protestants hold to the Protestant view of Justification and Sanctification? I cannot answer that. Only God knows.

I'm sure you've heard of the legalistic law and the moral law/ie ten commandments, and understand the difference between them. In your view, from your studying. Could the legalistic law be faultlessly obeyed?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As bible highlighter believes it is ''BALONEY'' to believe that when Paul repeatedly stressed you cannot be righteous/justified by obeying the law, he had primarily the moral law/ten commandments in mind when he continually stressed this. I'm afraid he will always struggle to understand justification

There are Jesus followers who reject the words of Paul. They are called Ebionites. I am not one of them. So no. I don’t think Paul’s words are baloney. I believe Paul’s words are a part of divinely inspired Scripture. I am able to perfectly harmonize Paul’s words with the words of Jesus, Peter, James, and John. This is not something I believe you can easily do with a good conscience.

 

[savedbygrace1]

There are Jesus followers who reject the words of Paul. They are called Ebionites. I am not one of them. So no. I don’t think Paul’s words are baloney. I believe Paul’s words are a part of divinely inspired Scripture. I am able to perfectly harmonize Paul’s words with the words of Jesus, Peter, James, and John. This is not something I believe you can easily do with a good conscience.

I would encourage you to stop listening to Protestants for one year and just read your Bible alone and ask God for the understanding on it. Forget everything you know and just read and believe your Bible at face value. Don’t let a man tell you what the Bible even says (Not even me). Just read it and believe the Bible at face value. Well, if you are a truth seeker, I believe you would be able to do this. But only time will tell in the end (of course). Choose wisely your path. Follow men of the Protestant religion or follow Jesus and His Word alone with the help of God.

I'm sure you've heard of the legalistic law and the moral law/ie ten commandments, and understand the difference between them. In your view, from your studying. Could the legalistic law be faultlessly obeyed?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm sure you've heard of the legalistic law and the moral law/ie ten commandments, and understand the difference between them. In your view, from your studying. Could the legalistic law be faultlessly obeyed?

The Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). Meaning, the 613 commands in the Torah or the Law of Moses is no more (as a PACKAGE deal or as a WHOLE). This does not mean certain laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etcetera are not carried over into the many laws of Christ taught to us by Jesus and His followers in the pages of the New Testament. Christians are not under the Old Law (Romans 6:14). Christians don’t have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, and holy days, stoning others for breaking certain aspects of the Old Law, keeping oaths, etcetera. That’s why you are confused. The Old Law was done away with when Christ died upon the cross. It’s why the temple veil was torn from top to bottom.

But as I mentioned to you before, Paul said that he is not without Law but he is under the Law(s) to Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21).

In fact, keeping a New Covenant Law (The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus) makes us free from the Law of sin and death (See: Romans 8:2, and then read the definition of that Law in Romans 8:1). We even are given a new commandment and that is to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another (See: 1 John 3:23). So obeying this commandment deals with eternal life. Just as obeying the law in Romans 8:2 deals with our salvation. But of course these kinds of verses were never taught to you by Protestants; Of if they are taught to you, they are taught to you through a Protestant filter (that distorts what the verse really says). Don’t believe me? Just read the verses for yourself several times in prayer and consider that you have been lied to.

 

[savedbygrace1]

The Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). Meaning, the 613 commands in the Torah or the Law of Moses is no more (as a PACKAGE deal or as a WHOLE). This does not mean certain laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etcetera are not carried over into the many laws of Christ taught to us by Jesus and His followers in the pages of the New Testament. Christians are not under the Old Law (Romans 6:14). Christians don’t have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, and holy days, stoning others for breaking certain aspects of the Old Law, keeping oaths, etcetera. That’s why you are confused. The Old Law was done away with when Christ died upon the cross. It’s why the temple veil was torn from top to bottom.

But as I mentioned to you before, Paul said that he is not without Law but he is under the Law(s) to Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21).

In fact, keeping a New Covenant Law (The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus) makes us free from the Law of sin and death (See: Romans 8:2, and then read the definition of that Law in Romans 8:1). We even are given a new commandment and that is to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another (See: 1 John 3:23). So obeying this commandment deals with eternal life. Just as obeying the law in Romans 8:2 deals with our salvation. But of course these kinds of verses were never taught to you by Protestants. They don’t really preach these verses or the full truth of them (anyways).

Please answer the question. Concerning the law handed down at Sanai, could the legalistic part of the law be faultlessly obeyed?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please answer the question. Concerning the law handed down at Sanai, could the legalistic part of the law be faultlessly obeyed?

No. Your not listening. Go back and read what I said.
Conversations work both ways.
Read the verses that I put forth to you.

 

[savedbygrace1]

No. Go back and read what I said.

You're running away from answering the question. The law handed down at Sanai comprised of the legalistic law and the moral law/ie the ten commandments. I'm not asking you which law you believe is now in operation, but rather, concerning the law handed down at Sanai, could the legalistic part of the law be faultlessly obeyed?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please answer the question. Concerning the law handed down at Sanai, could the legalistic part of the law be faultlessly obeyed?

It’s not a matter of running away. It’s because the question has nothing to do with Christians. The Old Law is not the issue or point. We are not under the Old Law anymore. The New Covenant Laws is what a Christian is to follow after they are saved by God’s grace. If you can make a case for how we are not to obey the commands of Jesus and His followers in the New Covenant or New Testament, then that is the kind of case that you need to make. There is no point in running down rabbit holes that have nothing to do with the actual New Covenant. We are not under the Old Covenant, and thus… it does not apply to us. Period. The way things worked in the Old Covenant is different in many ways vs. the New Covenant.

 

[savedbygrace1]

The Old Law is not the issue or point. We are not under the Old Law anymore. The New Covenant Laws is what a Christian is to follow after they are saved by God’s grace. If you can make a case for how we are not to obey the commands of Jesus and His followers in the New Covenant or New Testament, then that is the kind of case that you need to make. There is no point in running down rabbit holes that have nothing to do with the actual New Covenant. We are not under the Old Covenant, and thus… it does not apply to us. Period. The way things worked in the Old Covenant is different in many ways vs. the New Covenant.

Why are you afraid to answer the question? Don't you know the answer? Why are you running bible highlighter?
Concerning the law handed down at Sanai, could the legalistic part of the law be faultlessly obeyed?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why are you afraid to answer the question? Don't you know the answer? Why are you running bible highlighter?
Concerning the law handed down at Sanai, could the legalistic part of the law be faultlessly obeyed?

Do we sacrifice animals in the New Covenant?
Did the blood of goats and bulls ever cleanse from sin in the Old Covenant?
So as we can see, things are different now in the New Covenant.
So you cannot make a case for how things in the Old Covenant are to be the same in the New Covenant.

But could a person be blameless in obeying the Old Law?

“…Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (Luke 1:5-6).

 

[savedbygrace1]

Do we sacrifice animals in the New Covenant?
Did the blood of goats and bulls ever cleanse from sin in the Old Covenant?
So as we can see, things are different now in the New Covenant.
So you cannot make a case for how things in the Old Covenant are to be the same in the New Covenant.

But could a person be blameless in obeying the Old Law?

“…Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (Luke 1:5-6).

Please just answer the question. I can assure you im not going down a rabbilt hole. It is a very simple question. The law handed down at Sanai comprised of the legalistic and moral law/ie the ten commandments. In your view, could the legalistic part of the law be fautlessly obeyed. If you dont know the answer, just say ''I dont know''

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please just answer the question. I can assure you im not going down a rabbilt hole. It is a very simple question. The law handed down at Sanai comprised of the legalistic and moral law/ie the ten commandments. In your view, could the legalistic part of the law be fautlessly obeyed. If you dont know the answer, just say ''I dont know''

Read the passage and you will get your answer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@savedbygrace1

I would encourage you to stop listening to Protestants for one year and just read your Bible alone and ask God for the understanding on it. Forget everything you know and just read and believe your Bible at face value. Don’t let a man tell you what the Bible even says (Not even me). Just read it and believe the Bible at face value. Well, if you are a truth seeker, I believe you would be able to do this. But only time will tell in the end (of course). Choose wisely your path. Follow men of the Protestant religion or follow Jesus and His Word alone with the help of God.